The looming war over gay marriage

[theDoctorisIn]

proof

There is none. Just like there's no "proof" that it's a choice. Just like there's no "proof" that smoking cigarettes causes cancer.

this is stupid, why even make such a comment

If being gay is a choice, why would people choose it? Did you choose to be straight?

sexually, yes. i could have remained celibate.

I don't know about you, but I've never felt a sexual attraction to another man. I don't remember ever choosing to be straight, I just like girls. Simple as that. Why is it so hard to accept that other guys might just like dudes?

that is your experience. you have no considered others who have been abused or used or what not by older men. i have a couple of very close friends that had men introduce them to gay sex when they were young, eg, minors. you might say, well, a girl molested....does that make a hetrosexual because she was molested by men.... you would have a fair point, my friends believe they would have never considered gay sex, but for the experience with the older man.

i offer it solely as their experience. nothing more.

The answer of course is morality - how can you believe that gay people go to hell if it wasn't for the fact that they must have done something wrong? Aside from that argument, and the "traditional" argument (which is essentially the same thing), there's no justification for the rampant hatred and fear of "the gays".

i never said gay people go to hell. ever.

That last part wasn't directed at you, just a general rant. And you're right, there is no simple answer. Honestly, this is one of those questions where there's no point in debating - everyone's already made up their mind. So, on that note - I sign off this debate. It's been fun. Have a happy New Year.

 

[Big Fitz]

'My gay friends here would really like to know [g]ay men can marry a woman, just like every other man. Nobody's stopping them. They can even have children too. I'm sure they'll make some woman very happy. You CAN stop being gay...May as well say an Arsonist is just as free to do what makes him happy. Both are acts, and pyromania is a mental disease... hmmmmmmm.... could that be...

Do they know you think they're mentally ill, should choose to not be gay, and should not be allowed to wed and get benefits like being able to see their lovers in the ICU?

Who the hell are you to judge me or my friends? I thought you moral relativists didn't believe in judging people? Although you prove your ignorance and hypocrisy quite well.

 

[Big Fitz]

I'm not demanding anything.

Right, I'm referring to more of the militant gay-marriage agitators here. They are demanding I give up my view though. You haven't. I appreciate that.

You know homosexuality occurs in other species, not just Humans, right?

Yes. So the question is, if there is a genetic component, is it a birth defect that can/should be fixed? If you could cure nearsightedness or Downs Syndrome in the womb, would you? And of course that's where the real danger of genome mapping plus eugenics comes in. Even more so in an immoral/amoral society that does not ascribe rights as a living being to the unborn.

Legalizing same-sex marriage won't give anyone "special" rights - you'll be able to marry a dude too, if you want.

Then there are two questions raised by this.

1. If there is nothing special about marriage, why the fight? My suspicion is because it's not about homosexual rights, it's about destroying something else.
2. It actually does infringe on the rights of the majority who wish to remain separate from those who wish to have such beliefs. It demands they accept and alter their lives to accept the new status and 'normalized' structures in society. The majority rights are made subservient to a small, vocal minority.

Again, this speaks more to an underlying real issue that has nothing to do, IMHO with homosexuality.

Do they know you think they're mentally ill, should choose to not be gay, and should not be allowed to wed and get benefits like being able to see their lovers in the ICU?

Obviously you missed my earlier post where I said they can get a lawyer and make a civil contract allowing them to share such information. Nice willful blindness to perpetuate fauxrage.

that is your experience. you have no considered others who have been abused or used or what not by older men. i have a couple of very close friends that had men introduce them to gay sex when they were young, eg, minors. you might say, well, a girl molested....does that make a hetrosexual because she was molested by men.... you would have a fair point, my friends believe they would have never considered gay sex, but for the experience with the older man.

i offer it solely as their experience. nothing more.

Have you ever read the work of Andrew Vachss? He writes a detective series of books based on his experiences as a lawyer working in fields that deal with child abuse and related crimes like pedophilia and sex trafficking. He wrote the books as a means to get out the message and show the world what is happening while continuing to practice law to help children directly. Some very interesting stuff in his work. Very hard boiled and disturbing though.

 

[Toro]

Not enough to justify special rights.

You mean the special right to marry the one you love that 97% of the rest of the population has?

No one has a 'right' to marry the person that they love. Ask any adult and they will tell you a sob story of their first love ending up with someone else. It is a fact of life (probably for 96% of us). People select a person they think will make a good life partner for individual reasons (and most of the time that includes plans of having their own children). They work hard at the relationship and if everything goes okay, they get married (when the work really starts, marriage is not for wimps). Many people never get married (even some heterosexuals), it just doesn't happen, so please quit with the 'right to marry' crap.

The government - "Big Government" - is denying a small portion of the population the right to enter into a legally binding contract with another willing person that is available to the other 97% of the population.

You are on the wrong side of history. It is only a matter of time before gay marriage happens.

 

[Toro]

You can't equate race to sexual preference or acts.

So now you try to move the goalposts or try to blur the line. Nice try, but a fail.

Being gay is not a choice. It is biological, just like being black is biological.

Sexuality is hardwired into every single one of us, and is innate as eating.

proof

So, when you get aroused, do you "choose" to get aroused or does it just happen?

 

[Toro]

Nice attempt at obfuscation. My marriage/divorced/widowed/single status has nothing to do with the fact that gay men are perfectly legal to marry a woman of their choice. Just like everyone else. If they are given the right to marry the man of their choice are you ready for the pedophile to have the right to marry the little boy of their choice? Or how about the zoophile marrying the animal of their choice?

Strawman.

Children under the age of 18 do not have full rights under the law. Animals do not have full rights under the law. We do not allow either full power to sign legal contracts.

The family unit has always been and always WILL be Man + Woman + Children.

It has not always been this way. Sorry.

Leave the rest of us alone. Of course... we know the real reason isn't about marriage. It's about destroying traditions. Otherwise, there wouldn't be an issue here. Don't we now?

Right, lets leave gay people alone and give them the same rights to freely enter into a legal contract that is given to others but is denied by Big Government to 3% of the population.

The simple fact is that most people oppose gay marriage and homosexuality in general do not do so because of religious or cultural issues, though some genuinely do while others use that as a shield of respectability. Most people oppose gay rights because they project homosexuality onto themselves. They find it disgusting and react viscerally against it.

 

[Big Fitz]

Being gay is not a choice. It is biological, just like being black is biological.

Sexuality is hardwired into every single one of us, and is innate as eating.

proof

So, when you get aroused, do you "choose" to get aroused or does it just happen?

Do you choose to get aroused looking at a hoover wet and dry vac. What kinda stupid line of thought is this? This means nothing with the discussion. We're talking legal rights, not the issue of what trips your trigger. And if you can't tell the two apart, then there's no point talking to you either on the topic.

 

[Big Fitz]

Children under the age of 18 do not have full rights under the law. Animals do not have full rights under the law. We do not allow either full power to sign legal contracts.

So? Pedophiles want to bang little children. Why are we denying them their rights? They can't help what they wanna ****.

See how this works?

 

[Toro]

proof

So, when you get aroused, do you "choose" to get aroused or does it just happen?

Do you choose to get aroused looking at a hoover wet and dry vac. What kinda stupid line of thought is this? This means nothing with the discussion. We're talking legal rights, not the issue of what trips your trigger. And if you can't tell the two apart, then there's no point talking to you either on the topic.

Actually, I'm talking to Yurt, not you on this, so please STFU.

 

[Toro]

Children under the age of 18 do not have full rights under the law. Animals do not have full rights under the law. We do not allow either full power to sign legal contracts.

So? Pedophiles want to bang little children. Why are we denying them their rights? They can't help what they wanna ****.

See how this works?

No. And neither do you, apparently.

The law does not give children full legal rights. The law does not recognize that children have full mental capacity to make decisions in their own right in all circumstances. Thus, a man having sex with a child is illegal because even though the man has full capacity, the child does not.

See how this works?

 

[Big Fitz]

So, when you get aroused, do you "choose" to get aroused or does it just happen?

Do you choose to get aroused looking at a hoover wet and dry vac. What kinda stupid line of thought is this? This means nothing with the discussion. We're talking legal rights, not the issue of what trips your trigger. And if you can't tell the two apart, then there's no point talking to you either on the topic.

Actually, I'm talking to Yurt, not you on this, so please STFU.

Tough, public forum. You don't want others, take it private.

 

[Toro]

Do you choose to get aroused looking at a hoover wet and dry vac. What kinda stupid line of thought is this? This means nothing with the discussion. We're talking legal rights, not the issue of what trips your trigger. And if you can't tell the two apart, then there's no point talking to you either on the topic.

Actually, I'm talking to Yurt, not you on this, so please STFU.

Tough, public forum. You don't want others, take it private.

lol

Then don't tell me or anybody else what I should and should not be talking about.

 

[Modbert]

Nice attempt at obfuscation. My marriage/divorced/widowed/single status has nothing to do with the fact that gay men are perfectly legal to marry a woman of their choice. Just like everyone else. If they are given the right to marry the man of their choice are you ready for the pedophile to have the right to marry the little boy of their choice? Or how about the zoophile marrying the animal of their choice?

It comes down to this from what I see. You want to say where the line is... and the line is just barely enough to include your particular object d'amour, and nobody else. I always love that kind of hypocrisy.

The family unit has always been and always WILL be Man + Woman + Children.

Anything else is special rights no matter how much you scream froth and shout. Fuckin' deal, mmkay?

Besides, why do you want to suffer like the straights? You get a lawyer and do up a contract if the issue is legal. If it's religious, tough. Change religions or find one that supports you. There, problem's solved, you can now get medical records about your partner thanks to a leagal contract, and found some 'pastor/priest/holyperson' to marry you and can feel right in whatever religion you chose.

Leave the rest of us alone. Of course... we know the real reason isn't about marriage. It's about destroying traditions. Otherwise, there wouldn't be an issue here. Don't we now?

If you didn't want anyone to not think of you as a joke, you left no doubt after that post.

 

[Big Fitz]

Actually, I'm talking to Yurt, not you on this, so please STFU.

Tough, public forum. You don't want others, take it private.

lol

Then don't tell me or anybody else what I should and should not be talking about.

Did I tell you to STFU? Please show me where.

 

[Modbert]

Tough, public forum. You don't want others, take it private.

Oh the amount of delicious irony in this post. Hell, all your posts in this thread with all of it's delicious irony could keep me fed for a month.

 

[Modbert]

I gotta say, it's both hilarious and disgusting to see all the "Good Conservative Christians" on this board who constantly whine about Obama taking away their rights in a non-existent fashion to be actively supporting the taking of rights from others.

Bravo!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

They are demanding I give up my view though.

They are demanding you cease calling for denial of their equal right.

Yes. So the question is, if there is a genetic component, is it a birth defect that can/should be fixed? If you could cure nearsightedness or Downs Syndrome in the womb, would you?

Did you just compare a woman who likes muff to Down's Syndrome?

It actually does infringe on the rights of the majority who wish to remain separate from those who wish to have such beliefs.

Oh, boo-hoo. Go join the ******* Klansman cying about being forced to live in the same country as interracial couples.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Being gay is not a choice. It is biological, just like being black is biological.

Sexuality is hardwired into every single one of us, and is innate as eating.

proof

So, when you get aroused, do you "choose" to get aroused or does it just happen?

Sometimes I choose to do things with my partner that get me aroused.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Children under the age of 18 do not have full rights under the law. Animals do not have full rights under the law. We do not allow either full power to sign legal contracts.

So? Pedophiles want to bang little children. Why are we denying them their rights? They can't help what they wanna ****.

See how this works?

Wow.. do all your 'gay friends' know you think they're all basically child molesters?

They should read this thread.

 

[Sunni Man]

Did you choose to be straight?

Procreation is hardwired into our DNA as it is for EVERY species in the world.

That is true and just more evidence that homos are mentally ill