The liberal mythology of healthcare being a right

[Steelplate]

In any case, the PPACA and the individual mandate isn't about helping the old and sick. It's about forcing all of us in to the insurance company pens.

And there I might agree with you.

Medicare for everyone would be better.

You know damn well that's the final outcome of this bill. Insurance companies will go belly up being FORCED to cover everything under the moon. Prices will skyrocket to cover the costs and eventually the system will collapse.

It's the goal, and only a blind partisan fool would deny it.

Perhaps your side should have agreed to a Public Options then... then Insurance Companies would have to COMPETE with government to provide their services at a competitive rate. After all... you guys say government can't do anything right... so Competing would've been an easy task...right?

 

[dblack]

You know damn well that's the final outcome of this bill. Insurance companies will go belly up being FORCED to cover everything under the moon. Prices will skyrocket to cover the costs and eventually the system will collapse.

It's the goal, and only a blind partisan fool would deny it.

I have to disagree here. I think the goal, and likelier outcome, is to setup insurance companies as a public utilities, with guaranteed customers, guaranteed profits, and a permanent incestuous collusion with government. Profiting at the public trough is the business strategy of the 21st century.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"The poor overwhelmingly vote for the democrats.

Your theory falls flat on itself."

Brainwashed idiocy. Blacks skew the numbers, but Miss. and Al. etc are Pub central.

Here is the first racial post. I can't believe it took this long.

By the way you do know the southern states are largely populated by minorities don't you?

Idiot

 

[Steelplate]

You know damn well that's the final outcome of this bill. Insurance companies will go belly up being FORCED to cover everything under the moon. Prices will skyrocket to cover the costs and eventually the system will collapse.

It's the goal, and only a blind partisan fool would deny it.

I have to disagree here. I think the goal, and likelier outcome, is to setup insurance companies as a public utilities, with guaranteed customers, guaranteed profits, and a permanent incestuous collusion with government. Profiting at the public trough is the business strategy of the 21st century.

You know, unfortunately...I think you are closer to the mark.

 

[The T]

"The poor overwhelmingly vote for the democrats.

Your theory falls flat on itself."

Brainwashed idiocy. Blacks skew the numbers, but Miss. and Al. etc are Pub central.

Those that practice bad behaviour will vote for those that embrace it, embellish it, and enable it. That would be the Statist Democrats.

It's how they stay in power. The Republicans are a close second.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

You know damn well that's the final outcome of this bill. Insurance companies will go belly up being FORCED to cover everything under the moon. Prices will skyrocket to cover the costs and eventually the system will collapse.

It's the goal, and only a blind partisan fool would deny it.

I have to disagree here. I think the goal, and likelier outcome, is to setup insurance companies as a public utilities, with guaranteed customers, guaranteed profits, and a permanent incestuous collusion with government. Profiting at the public trough is the business strategy of the 21st century.

In order for your scenario to play out the govt would have to pay the difference in losses. I don't see the upside for the govt. Whereas the upside of collapsing the system is total control.

 

[Steelplate]

"The poor overwhelmingly vote for the democrats.

Your theory falls flat on itself."

Brainwashed idiocy. Blacks skew the numbers, but Miss. and Al. etc are Pub central.

Those that practice bad behaviour will vote for those that embrace it, embellish it, and enable it. That would be the Statist Democrats.

It's how they stay in power. The Republicans are a close second.

And that leaves you Libertarian types ranting like Lunatics... kinda sad, really.

 

[candycorn]

For the sake of this post let's pretend you're right (which you're not).

Every right I can think of involves 2 paths. One to exercise it and one to deny it. Obamacare does the exact opposite. It FORCES you to exercise this so called right. So in essence it oppresses an individuals personal rights to decide for themselves.

You've all been claiming that healthcare is a right so exactly how does this law aid me in EXERCISING my rights? It doesn't, it FORCES me to take a path I may not want to take.

Where is my RIGHT to choose if Obama doesn't offer me a waiver like all his rich friends?

I don't understand how the government can force you to buy healthcare...it is a massive over-reach of federal power that should be suspended. A lot of stipulations of Obamacare is wonderful this not withstanding.

As for it being a right...that always made me laugh too: Sure, healthcare is a right but somehow dental and eye care isn'?

I agree with your position for right now. You will probably change it by the time I finish this sentence however.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

For the sake of this post let's pretend you're right (which you're not).

Every right I can think of involves 2 paths. One to exercise it and one to deny it. Obamacare does the exact opposite. It FORCES you to exercise this so called right. So in essence it oppresses an individuals personal rights to decide for themselves.

You've all been claiming that healthcare is a right so exactly how does this law aid me in EXERCISING my rights? It doesn't, it FORCES me to take a path I may not want to take.

Where is my RIGHT to choose if Obama doesn't offer me a waiver like all his rich friends?

I don't understand how the government can force you to buy healthcare...it is a massive over-reach of federal power that should be suspended. A lot of stipulations of Obamacare is wonderful this not withstanding.

As for it being a right...that always made me laugh too: Sure, healthcare is a right but somehow dental and eye care isn'?

I agree with your position for right now. You will probably change it by the time I finish this sentence however.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[francoHFW]

In any case, the PPACA and the individual mandate isn't about helping the old and sick. It's about forcing all of us in to the insurance company pens.

And there I might agree with you.

Medicare for everyone would be better.

You know damn well that's the final outcome of this bill. Insurance companies will go belly up being FORCED to cover everything under the moon. Prices will skyrocket to cover the costs and eventually the system will collapse.

It's the goal, and only a blind partisan fool would deny it.

Health costs DOUBLED just under Booosh- and a lot of that was scams! You're unbelievably misled. Switz. and NL have private systems, try and remain calm. You're fighting for bloated CEOs and total abuse of the insured, etc etc. If someone in your family needed care you'd be wiped out.

 

[francoHFW]

"The poor overwhelmingly vote for the democrats.

Your theory falls flat on itself."

Brainwashed idiocy. Blacks skew the numbers, but Miss. and Al. etc are Pub central.

Here is the first racial post. I can't believe it took this long.

By the way you do know the southern states are largely populated by minorities don't you?

Idiot

I meant Pub DUPE central. If you don't count blacks, there are just as many Pub dupe poor and on welfare as Dems...

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"The poor overwhelmingly vote for the democrats.

Your theory falls flat on itself."

Brainwashed idiocy. Blacks skew the numbers, but Miss. and Al. etc are Pub central.

Here is the first racial post. I can't believe it took this long.

By the way you do know the southern states are largely populated by minorities don't you?

Idiot

I meant Pub DUPE central. If you don't count blacks, there are just as many Pub dupe poor and on welfare as Dems...

Proof via link please.

 

[francoHFW]

Everything you know is wrong....

Why Are Democrats Richer than Republicans? ~ European ...
Mar 12, 2009 ... Why Are Democrats Richer than Republicans? Tom Kando ...And here is another
thing: On average, Republicans are poorer than Democrats!

european-americanblog.blogspot.com/.../why-are-democrats-richer-than.html - Cached - SimilarDemocrats are richer than Republicans | wingoperie
Democrats are richer than Republicans. Posted on July 31, 2011. The
conventional wisdom prevalent in America is contrary to the real facts . Someone
made a ...

wingoperie.wordpress.com/.../democrats-are-richer-than-republicans/ - Cached - SimilarRed State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State: Excerpt
Over $100000 in income, you are likely more than not to vote for Democrats. ...
Democrats win the rich states, but rich people vote Republican, just as they have
... while his Democratic opponents captured the richer states in the Northeast and ...

redbluerichpoor.com/excerpt.php - Cached - Similar

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I don't understand how the government can force you to buy healthcare...

And for good reason: it can’t, as the ACA contains no such provision.

 

[dblack]

I don't understand how the government can force you to buy healthcare...

And for good reason: it can’t, as the ACA contains no such provision.

Sheer bullshit. Fining someone is an application of force. The ACA forces us to buy insurance every bit as much as the state forces us to stop at stoplights or wear seatbelts. Pretending otherwise is mere sophistry to avoid addressing the issue.

 

[JoeB131]

For the sake of this post let's pretend you're right (which you're not).

Every right I can think of involves 2 paths. One to exercise it and one to deny it. Obamacare does the exact opposite. It FORCES you to exercise this so called right. So in essence it oppresses an individuals personal rights to decide for themselves.

You've all been claiming that healthcare is a right so exactly how does this law aid me in EXERCISING my rights? It doesn't, it FORCES me to take a path I may not want to take.

Where is my RIGHT to choose if Obama doesn't offer me a waiver like all his rich friends?

It isn't a question of whether it's a "right" or not.

We've already declared that medical professionals CANNOT refuse medical treatment based on the inability to pay. You walk into an emergency room, they have to treat you. Period.

So once you've determined "we aren't going to let people die unnecessarily", then it becomes a question of "What's the most effective way of keeping them alive".

At current, we have 100 million people who get their medical coverage through the government (Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, Schipp, etc.) and about 150 million who get it thorugh an employer, a union or buy it themselves. about 50 million people have no coverage, but those are the ones who are young, healthy, illegal immigrants, transitorily between jobs, etc. They really aren't the problem that everyone makes them out to be.

Most of the world has a single payer system and they leave it at that. We insist on this byzantine system of private insurers eating at the public teet (SCHIP, Medicare Part C) and whining loudly about "Socialism" if they are forced to provide the coverage they actually promised. Not suprirsingly, people in the rest of the industrialized world live longer, spend less and have a lower infant mortality rate, but, hey, we can't bring that up. USA USA USA!.

I personally think that Romney.. Er ObamaCare kind of sucks because all it does is force people to pay into the private system who probably didn't need to, and it doesn't address the real problem, which is the increasing cost of medical care due to runaway inflation and a demographically aging population.

 

[dblack]

It isn't a question of whether it's a "right" or not.

We've already declared that medical professionals CANNOT refuse medical treatment based on the inability to pay. You walk into an emergency room, they have to treat you. Period.

So once you've determined "we aren't going to let people die unnecessarily", then it becomes a question of "What's the most effective way of keeping them alive".

First of all, I've yet to see any compelling statistics showing that the free rider effect is significant cause of health care inflation. People who wait until they have to use the emergency room are still billed, and at a higher rate than a doctor's visit would have likely caused. And most of them pay their bills.

Second, if the only way to address the adverse side effects of EMTALA is to take away our right to refuse to do business with corporate insurance, then we should address that by fixing the original law, not piling on more oppressive crap. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I personally think that Romney.. Er ObamaCare kind of sucks because all it does is force people to pay into the private system who probably didn't need to, and it doesn't address the real problem, which is the increasing cost of medical care due to runaway inflation and a demographically aging population.

Agreed. In fact, it makes the problem worse by further disconnecting consumers from the costs they incur for their health care. Our irrational use of insurance, our naive expectations that everyone can have the best and the tax and regulatory structure that props it up the delusion - are the problem. Worse than ignoring them, PPACA doubles down on all of those.

 

[rdean]

Should have went with the PO. That way you would have had an option.

Republicans will never let it happen. The Health Care companies lose too much money. After all, they're people too.

 

[editec]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/206056-the-liberal-mythology-of-healthcare-being-a-right.html

The liberal mythology of healthcare being a right

In a representative democratic republic if the people believe something is theirs by right, then it is theirs by right.

Currently healthcare is NOT a right.

That can change.

OTOH, so can our representative democratic republic also change into something wholly different, too.

And THAT is what I believe is happening to this nation.

It is a now a shamocratic representative democratic republic.

Perhaps our government system always was something of a sham, but it's becoming more shamocratic every damned day

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes... you and those like you who expect something at the expense of others are nutbags... glad you're finally coming clean

No... that was you in the picture. BTW...who expects something at the expense of others? Did you forget that I'm a taxpayer too? No, it's just that you're selfish and don't give a shit about anyone other than your own little world that you've manufactured for yourself.

Do you pay a lesser % rate than someone else making more?? Would sort of equate to you going to the grocery store and getting charged $9 for a gallon of milk, while Lazy Bones McGee gets charged $1.50 for the same milk because of a subjective label of him being poor

I am not a selfish person.. I give generously to charities I support... but in my government, I prefer equality in treatment, not a punitive system of forced charity muddled by government waste and red tape

I expect nothing from the expense of others as they are forced to pay more by a government pandering with subjective labels all for the sake of power...

I will, as I have said MANY times, support and embrace a system based on equal treatment by government under law... with all the positives and negatives that come with it