The Liberal Assault on Merit

[PoliticalChic]

You know, if being poor and having to fight your way up the ladder towards success is such a good thing,

why do so many parents of lesser means put so much energy into trying to see that their children DON"T have to do that?

More Liberal word salad.

 

[LiberalMedia]

No they can't, and why should they have to? It's a public school; your ability to succeed is supposed to be equality of opportunity isn't it?

Isn't public school supposed to offer equal opportunity regardless of one's ability to pay?

That's another story.

Blame the teachers.

Where I live, they charge between 65 and 90 an hour to tutor. They have permission to tutor as long as they offer 1/2 hour a day after school hours for general extra help. SO by 3:30, most of them are out and tutoring for cash.

So yeah, only the rich get the advantage of tutors.

You blame the rich for that? Not the teachers?

"So yeah, only the rich get the advantage of tutors."

Flushing, Queens is almost completely Asian.

I heard a radio caller from Flushing say that on weekends, it is nearly impossible to find an available seat in the libraries.

Seems, there are all sorts of tutors.....many, free.

Is it your position, then, that inanimate objects are at least equal to humyn beings--in particular, those who are employed as teachers--in terms of their ability to tutor students?

If not, please explain your previous statements in detail so as to rid us of this misunderstanding.

 

[saveliberty]

No they can't, and why should they have to? It's a public school; your ability to succeed is supposed to be equality of opportunity isn't it?

Isn't public school supposed to offer equal opportunity regardless of one's ability to pay?

No, succeeding involves effort and intelligence, might have heard of it, merit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

No they can't, and why should they have to? It's a public school; your ability to succeed is supposed to be equality of opportunity isn't it?

Isn't public school supposed to offer equal opportunity regardless of one's ability to pay?

That's another story.

Blame the teachers.

Where I live, they charge between 65 and 90 an hour to tutor. They have permission to tutor as long as they offer 1/2 hour a day after school hours for general extra help. SO by 3:30, most of them are out and tutoring for cash.

So yeah, only the rich get the advantage of tutors.

You blame the rich for that? Not the teachers?

We are talking about a test that kids take to get into special schools. These sorts of tests are now notorious for being susceptible to being trained to.

They do it on SATS now too. You pay someone to train you for the test. It doesn't make the kid smarter, in a general sense, it doesn't make him a better candidate.

It only makes him a better test taker for that specific test.

"...notorious for being susceptible to being trained to."


Truly a stupid turn of phrase.


“Teaching to the test” is deplored in education circles, although that complaint is easily answered: if the test faithfully mirrors the skills and knowledge set out in the standards, then preparing one’s pupils to ace such a test is an honorable mission!
Accountability, based on the incentives that are provided for performance. And the sanctions for nonperformance, with a system that fairly apportions responsibility."
Chester Finn, “Troublemaker”



Chester Evans Finn, Jr., (b. August 3, 1944) is a former professor of education, an educational policy analyst, and a former United States Assistant Secretary of Education. He is currently the president of the nonprofit Thomas B. Fordham Foundation in Washington, D.C. He is also a Fellow of the International Academy of Education, an Adjunct Fellow at the Hudson Institute, and a senior fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution where he chairs the Koret Task Force on K-12 Education.

Finn was Professor of Education and Public Policy at Vanderbilt University (1981–2002). He served as Assistant Secretary for Research and Improvement at the U.S. Department of Education (1985–1988). Earlier positions include Staff Assistant to the President of the United States; Special Assistant to the Governor of Massachusetts (1972–1973); Counsel to the United States Ambassador to India (1973–1974); Research Associate at the Brookings Institution (1974–1977); and Legislative Director for Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (1977–1981).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_E._Finn,_Jr.

 

[saveliberty]

You have to love the irony in the liberal view teaching to a test is bad. Anyone ever hear of Common Core?

 

[saveliberty]

Your missing a bunch of ys LM.

In addition to or in place of, people can learn on their own. A library is a good place to do that. Some people even do that AND have tutors. (Gasp!!!)

 

[PoliticalChic]

That's another story.

Blame the teachers.

Where I live, they charge between 65 and 90 an hour to tutor. They have permission to tutor as long as they offer 1/2 hour a day after school hours for general extra help. SO by 3:30, most of them are out and tutoring for cash.

So yeah, only the rich get the advantage of tutors.

You blame the rich for that? Not the teachers?

"So yeah, only the rich get the advantage of tutors."

Flushing, Queens is almost completely Asian.

I heard a radio caller from Flushing say that on weekends, it is nearly impossible to find an available seat in the libraries.

Seems, there are all sorts of tutors.....many, free.

Is it your position, then, that inanimate objects are at least equal to humyn beings--in particular, those who are employed as teachers--in terms of their ability to tutor students?

If not, please explain your previous statements in detail so as to rid us of this misunderstanding.

"...there are all sorts of tutors.....many, free."

This is what you claim unable to understand?


If so.....you appear galactically stupid…


You might start off with the purchase of a dictionary.

 

[LiberalMedia]

"So yeah, only the rich get the advantage of tutors."

Flushing, Queens is almost completely Asian.

I heard a radio caller from Flushing say that on weekends, it is nearly impossible to find an available seat in the libraries.

Seems, there are all sorts of tutors.....many, free.

Is it your position, then, that inanimate objects are at least equal to humyn beings--in particular, those who are employed as teachers--in terms of their ability to tutor students?

If not, please explain your previous statements in detail so as to rid us of this misunderstanding.

"...there are all sorts of tutors.....many, free."

This is what you claim unable to understand?


If so.....you appear galactically stupid…


You might start off with the purchase of a dictionary.

What "sorts of tutors" were you referring to other than the humyn kind?

 

[LiberalMedia]

Your missing a bunch of ys LM.

In addition to or in place of, people can learn on their own. A library is a good place to do that. Some people even do that AND have tutors. (Gasp!!!)

If pyyple could truly learn on their own, we wouldn't need public schools, and we wouldn't need tutors. Fact.

The bourgeois scum that can self-teach yet choose to pay for a private tutor anyway are merely flaunting their rich, white-privileged upbringing in the faces of the underclass. It's truly sickening and I'm not sure how you can support it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Your missing a bunch of ys LM.

In addition to or in place of, people can learn on their own. A library is a good place to do that. Some people even do that AND have tutors. (Gasp!!!)

If pyyple could truly learn on their own, we wouldn't need public schools, and we wouldn't need tutors. Fact.

The bourgeois scum that can self-teach yet choose to pay for a private tutor anyway are merely flaunting their rich, white-privileged upbringing in the faces of the underclass. It's truly sickening and I'm not sure how you can support it.

1. "If pyyple (sic) could truly learn on their own, we wouldn't need public schools, and we wouldn't need tutors."

As the old saying goes, one can only judge others by themselves.

Your statement is, of course, verification of same.



2. "The bourgeois scum...."

And, again, you reveal much about yourself. Your title could hardly be more correct.

The only thing that could possibly rival your post for psychiatric problems would be a copy of the DSM-IV manual.
Today your day out of the ‘nervous hospital’?



3."...flaunting their rich, white-privileged upbringing in the faces of the underclass."

I’m not a proctologist, but I recognize you…




4. " I'm not sure how you can support it."

Having seen your post, it’s clear why no one ever copied off your paper.
Clearly, you are a non-dimensional individual with a one-dimensional view of the world.


5. And, with apologies to Edmond Rostand.....'as I end my refrain.....thrust home!'
here is one of the best tutors around....totally free....

https://www.khanacademy.org/



And so, you remain today's DH....….designated half-wit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As an example of Khan academy.....a must for those folks with children.....pick any subject and find it on youtube, Khan academy:

 

[PoliticalChic]

You know, if being poor and having to fight your way up the ladder towards success is such a good thing,

why do so many parents of lesser means put so much energy into trying to see that their children DON"T have to do that?

Read this and be amazed!

Not only am I your main go-to for education and remediation.....but I have just found a perfect soul-mate for you.

Rush to post #189......

It is truly a marriage made in.....er....maybe not heaven....but still.....


Rush on over!....a rose might smooth the way.....




And...I've done another good deed!
I see my path winding toward beatification!

 

[NYcarbineer]

No they can't, and why should they have to? It's a public school; your ability to succeed is supposed to be equality of opportunity isn't it?

Isn't public school supposed to offer equal opportunity regardless of one's ability to pay?

No, succeeding involves effort and intelligence, might have heard of it, merit.

Okay, you oppose equal opportunity. I don't.

Which of us do the rest of you agree with?

Are you for equal opportunity, as I am, or against equal opportunity, as this saveliberty person is?

Please state your opinion.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You know, if being poor and having to fight your way up the ladder towards success is such a good thing,

why do so many parents of lesser means put so much energy into trying to see that their children DON"T have to do that?

Read this and be amazed!

Not only am I your main go-to for education and remediation.....but I have just found a perfect soul-mate for you.

Rush to post #189......

It is truly a marriage made in.....er....maybe not heaven....but still.....


Rush on over!....a rose might smooth the way.....




And...I've done another good deed!
I see my path winding toward beatification!

Your post has nothing to do with my post.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You know, if being poor and having to fight your way up the ladder towards success is such a good thing,

why do so many parents of lesser means put so much energy into trying to see that their children DON"T have to do that?

Read this and be amazed!

Not only am I your main go-to for education and remediation.....but I have just found a perfect soul-mate for you.

Rush to post #189......

It is truly a marriage made in.....er....maybe not heaven....but still.....


Rush on over!....a rose might smooth the way.....




And...I've done another good deed!
I see my path winding toward beatification!

Your post has nothing to do with my post.

You catch on quick!

 

[NYcarbineer]

To me, being broke and with no one to lean on was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. It motivated me to do what I had to do.

I am not saying poverty is a good thing. I am saying that the motivation created by having nowhere to turn is priceless....

it opens ones mind to possibilities
It allows one to be more creative
it allows one to apply all of ones talents
it forces one to FIND those talents
It forces one to reach back

Poverty sucks....I experienced it.

But it is what made me who I am today. Retired and barely 55.

Well then taking away all Medicaid and taking away free public education should be one of our first steps in this mission to build character among the poor shouldn't it?

I mean, trying to survive a disease or injury that your parents cannot afford treatment for should be the greatest thing that might ever happen to a child, don't you think?

Oh. I see.

You don't want to debate.

You don't want to understand the oppositions position.

You just want to act like an ass.

Never mind. No interest in your spin and hyperbole. Forget I even responded to you.

When someone says:

To me, being broke and with no one to lean on was the greatest thing that ever happened to me.

and uses that as an argument to deny help to the poor, I don't think my simply showing that person what that means in real life is any sort of an exaggeration.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You have to love the irony in the liberal view teaching to a test is bad. Anyone ever hear of Common Core?

You've got the irony wrong. Suddenly you've decided that teaching to a test is a good thing if it somehow disadvantages lower income students.

Look, the standardized test is being made obsolete and inappropriate because people have discovered a scheme to beat the test. The only fair solution is to either provide everyone with the means to take advantage of the scheme,

or to scrap the test or modify it in such a way that it can't be gamed.

 

[SmedlyButler]

How is that SHSAT test results manipulated link search coming NYC? No luck on my search.

there is no doubt an standardized testing is unfair to the less fortunate.

Where I live, you cant walk a block without seeing a dozen ads for SAT tutors...

The financially less fortunate can not afford what they charge. That is a given. Heck, even I thought twice before paying for my kids to be tutored....but I did it.

Test results manipulated = test scores tampered with. There is no record of that.

How is standardized testing unfair? The calculus question was skewed to whites? Shakespeare's sonnets were withheld from Asian kids? Monet slides missed the Latino district? These are specialized schools. You attend them because you have a specific interest.

I can understand an SAT being unfair, if your school doesn't offer calculus or doesn't teach proper English vocabulary. It costs what? $35 to take a practice SAT?

There are many many ways to help the poor in this situation. Lowering standards is not a helpful one.

suggest to me that a good infrastructure is needed to insure that the poor have an equal shot at making the grade. Retired teachers and volunteer tutors organised efficiently, or something along that line. I'm sure there are examples of this type of project but obviously they haven't been effective enough. I'm going to do a little research.

 

[saveliberty]

there is no doubt an standardized testing is unfair to the less fortunate.

Where I live, you cant walk a block without seeing a dozen ads for SAT tutors...

The financially less fortunate can not afford what they charge. That is a given. Heck, even I thought twice before paying for my kids to be tutored....but I did it.

Test results manipulated = test scores tampered with. There is no record of that.

How is standardized testing unfair? The calculus question was skewed to whites? Shakespeare's sonnets were withheld from Asian kids? Monet slides missed the Latino district? These are specialized schools. You attend them because you have a specific interest.

I can understand an SAT being unfair, if your school doesn't offer calculus or doesn't teach proper English vocabulary. It costs what? $35 to take a practice SAT?

There are many many ways to help the poor in this situation. Lowering standards is not a helpful one.

suggest to me that a good infrastructure is needed to insure that the poor have an equal shot at making the grade. Retired teachers and volunteer tutors organised efficiently, or something along that line. I'm sure there are examples of this type of project but obviously they haven't been effective enough. I'm going to do a little research.

I listed three possible ways to assist:

1. Enterprising teachers who offer the course at a better price.
2. Scholarships.
3. Student loan program.

I am not arguing some students are left out due to costs. I am saying lowering the merit of those who get in is a poor solution. Given this to me the best choice is to develop all three suggestions. Which leaves me with this question: Do you want these kids to get a high caliber education or not? Lowering standards means teachers end up having to teach to the lowest level (the problem New York City is trying to avoid).

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Merit....Or more accurately opposing any semblance of it, is precisely why liberals support labor unions....Those collectives eschew the concept of merit in pay and benefits.
Those that work harder, perform better at their jobs are actually qualities frowned upon by unionists.
Liberals are opposed to the concepts of merit achievement and success...Except their own.

To be sure.

Lefty's motive ultimately comes down to this: his obsession with power and the adoration of those he enslaves.

Why yes, even the GOP God will treat all as equals in Heaven..ha!

Strike a nerve?