The Lahar

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We have regular drills here for these, so far nothing. But . .

Lahars

Lahars at Mount Rainier?
During the past 10,000 years, there have been at least 60 different lahars of various sizes originating from Mount Rainier (Hoblitt and others, 1995:5). There are now over 100,000 homes and over 200,000 Puget Sound residents that work in buildings located on these deposits (Krakauer, 1996:34). The largest of these lahars is the Osceola Mudflow that occurred approximately 5,600 years ago and extends to the Port of Tacoma including the areas now inhabited by the towns of Orting, Buckley, Sumner, Puyallup, Enumclaw and Auburn (Hoblitt and others, 1995:5). A more recent lahar, the Electron Mudflow, originated as a sector collapse from what is now known as the Sunset Amphitheater around 600 years ago. The deposits left from the Electron Mudflow are 30 yards deep at the beginning of the Puget Sound lowland area and at least 6 yards deep at the town of Orting (Hoblitt and others, 1995:5). The following hazard map illustrates the areas at risk from future lahar activity.

600 years ago we had no humans, no burning of fossil fuels, nothing, just happened. Regarding of one poster on here who believes he/she is the epitome of brillance in all things geological, many of our rivers here that are fed by glacial/snow melt are barely ankle deep as yet. If a lahar occurred 600 years ago and was not caused by man, I fail to see how we could be causing one yet. IF we were able to cause them, then by God let's do something to prevent them, huh? But to my knowledge nothing is being done, because nothing CAN be done.
 

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Lahar? Didn't they do a Heavy Metal movie about the Lahar back in the late 70's or early 80's?
 

Old Rocks

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Silly ass. there were humans living in the Puget Sound lowlands 600 years ago. And nobody that I know of has even suggested that a lahar from a collapse of a geological feature was in any way connected to human influence.
 
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Silly ass. there were humans living in the Puget Sound lowlands 600 years ago. And nobody that I know of has even suggested that a lahar from a collapse of a geological feature was in any way connected to human influence.
Well they sure as hell weren't driving automobiles now were they? Or flying airplanes? They hadn't dug any oil wells yet? And the mudflow from a lahar is the melting of the glacier, usually a hot spot under the earth. and NO it's not caused by humans anymore than the receding of glaciers in Himalayas or anywhere else or even climate change to ice or heat is caused by humans. THAT's my point "silly ass."

and P.S. to the Himalayan glacier bit: http://www.iceagenow.com/Glaciers_in_western_Himalayas_thickening_and_expanding.htm

Stop listening to BSNBC. --

"Furthermore a British study published two years ago by the American Meteorological Society found that glaciers are only shrinking in the eastern Himalayas. Further west, in the Hindu Kush and the Karakoram, glaciers are "thickening and expanding".

"Meanwhile, all last week, ITV News was running a series of wearisomely familiar scare stories on the disappearing Arctic ice and those "doomed" polar bears - without telling its viewers that satellite images now show ice cover above its 30-year average, or that polar bear numbers are at record level. But then "polar bears not drowning after all - as snow falls over large parts of Britain" doesn't really make a story."
 
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Old Rocks

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And you and your site are full of shit. USGS, a real source for such information.

USGS Professional Paper 1386-F: Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World -- Asia

This chapter is the ninth to be released in U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386, Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World, a series of 11 chapters. In each of the geographic area chapters, remotely sensed images, primarily from the Landsat 1, 2, and 3 series of spacecraft, are used to analyze the specific glacierized region of our planet under consideration and to monitor glacier changes. Landsat images, acquired primarily during the middle to late 1970s and early 1980s, were used by an international team of glaciologists and other scientists to study various geographic regions and (or) to discuss related glaciological topics. In each glacierized geographic region, the present areal distribution of glaciers is compared, wherever possible, with historical information about their past extent. The atlas provides an accurate regional inventory of the areal extent of glacier ice on our planet during the 1970s as part of a growing international scientific effort to measure global environmental change on the Earth’s surface.
 
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And you and your site are full of shit. USGS, a real source for such information.

USGS Professional Paper 1386-F: Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World -- Asia

This chapter is the ninth to be released in U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386, Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World, a series of 11 chapters. In each of the geographic area chapters, remotely sensed images, primarily from the Landsat 1, 2, and 3 series of spacecraft, are used to analyze the specific glacierized region of our planet under consideration and to monitor glacier changes. Landsat images, acquired primarily during the middle to late 1970s and early 1980s, were used by an international team of glaciologists and other scientists to study various geographic regions and (or) to discuss related glaciological topics. In each glacierized geographic region, the present areal distribution of glaciers is compared, wherever possible, with historical information about their past extent. The atlas provides an accurate regional inventory of the areal extent of glacier ice on our planet during the 1970s as part of a growing international scientific effort to measure global environmental change on the Earth’s surface.
Whatever. You believe what you want. All I know is we had one of the coldest winters here in Washington and we had snow in the mountains falling through April! They kept the ski areas open through May because they had so much snow on the ground. But, you believe whatever your little heart desires, sweetie.
 

Old Rocks

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God, you are truly ignorant, or born yesterday. Did the Puyallup freeze over last winter? That has happened a number of times in the past. In fact, the Columbia has frozen over hard enough to drive wagons from Portland to Vancouver in the past. But our present 'cold' winters hardly even put a skim of ice on the rivers edges.
 

Old Rocks

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And, yes, I find the USGS to be far more believable the an undegreed ex-TV weatherman, or a blogger on the internet.
 

Old Rocks

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Of course, what you are essentially stating is that there is a worldwide conspiracy among all the scientists dealing with this subject. Because every Scientific Society, every National Academy of Science, and every major University state in the policy statements that AGW is happening, and a danger to all of us.

Need any extra tinfoil for your little aluminum beanie?
 
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Of course, what you are essentially stating is that there is a worldwide conspiracy among all the scientists dealing with this subject. Because every Scientific Society, every National Academy of Science, and every major University state in the policy statements that AGW is happening, and a danger to all of us.

Need any extra tinfoil for your little aluminum beanie?
The earth's ice covering melted thousands of years ago. Tell me what caused that? People driving SUVs? Burning oil from their vast oil wells? No? Hmmm. That how can man be cause any melting again? The earth might be warming, but it is not the fault of any of us. We could go to horse and buggy and dismantle all industry for 10 years, not going to change a thing. Scientific reports can be bought and paid for by those who benefit from the answers --- the global warming nuts like Al Bore and his cronies. I don't believe a word of it and shall continue as I have been for years. I believe it is YOU who is wearing the til foil beanie.

I have to wonder, if Newt Gingrich had come up with this "Inconvenient Truth" instead of Al Gore, would you libbie have been as eager to swallow it? Somehow I don't think so. Of course you are from Portland - Land of the Liberals, The People's Republic of Oregon - well I live in just about as bad The People's Republic of Washington. I tell you what: When John Travolta stops flying his 747 and when John Kerry gets rid of his Yacht and all the other celebrities get rid of their SUVs and limos and such, then we'll see. But the planes are still flying, the trains are on the tracks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_2009–2010_in_Europe

and according to the Farmers Alamanac: record cold temps predicted. Hmm. http://www.farmersalmanac.com/frigid-2010-weather-outlook/

and last but not least: http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/34891/winter-2011-heavier-snow-for-c.asp

Overall, AccuWeather.com Chief Long-Range Meteorologist Joe Bastardi is predicting that the worst of winter's cold and snow will be from the Pacific Northwest into the northern Plains and western Great Lakes. That will put cities like Portland and Seattle that escaped with a very nice winter last year, colder and snowier this year. Fargo and Minneapolis to Green Bay will also receive above-normal winter snowfall.
 
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Old Rocks

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Neither Gore or Gingrinch are scientists. Gore simply put what the scientists were saying into layman's terms, with a few minor errors and misunderstandings. You may not like the message, but that will not change the reality in the slightest.

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect
 
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Neither Gore or Gingrinch are scientists. Gore simply put what the scientists were saying into layman's terms, with a few minor errors and misunderstandings. You may not like the message, but that will not change the reality in the slightest.

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect
A FEW minor errors and misunderstandings? You believe what you want!
 

Old Rocks

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No, I read what the scientists are stating, and the evidence they are presenting, and accept that as a much better source than the obese drugged out radio jocks, undegreed ex-TV weathermen, and various fruitcake sites you people depend on for your lies and misinformation.

Scientific opinion on climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No scientific body of national or international standing has maintained a dissenting opinion; the last was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, which in 2007 updated its 1999 statement rejecting the likelihood of human influence on recent climate with its current non-committal position.[2][3] Some other organizations, primarily those focusing on geology, also hold non-committal positions.
 

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AGU Position Statement: Human Impacts on Climate

Human Impacts on Climate
Adopted by Council December 2003
Revised and Reaffirmed December 2007

The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain glaciers, the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the 20th century. Global average surface temperatures increased on average by about 0.6°C over the period 1956–2006. As of 2006, eleven of the previous twelve years were warmer than any others since 1850. The observed rapid retreat of Arctic sea ice is expected to continue and lead to the disappearance of summertime ice within this century. Evidence from most oceans and all continents except Antarctica shows warming attributable to human activities. Recent changes in many physical and biological systems are linked with this regional climate change. A sustained research effort, involving many AGU members and summarized in the 2007 assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, continues to improve our scientific understanding of the climate.
 

Old Rocks

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The Geological Society of America - Position Statement on Global Climate Change

Greenhouse gases remain as the major explanation. Climate model assessments of the natural and anthropogenic factors responsible for this warming conclude that rising anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases have been an increasingly important contributor since the mid-1800s and the major factor since the mid-1900s (Meehl et al., 2004). The CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is now ~30% higher than peak levels that have been measured in ice cores spanning 800,000 years of age, and the methane concentration is 2.5 times higher. About half of Earth’s warming has occurred through the basic heat-trapping effect of the gases in the absence of any feedback processes. This “clear-sky” response to climate is known with high certainty. The other half of the estimated warming results from the net effect of feedbacks in the climate system: a very large positive feedback from water vapor; a smaller positive feedback from snow and ice albedo; and sizeable, but still uncertain, negative feedbacks from clouds and aerosols. The vertical structure of observed changes in temperature and water vapor in the troposphere is consistent with the anthropogenic greenhouse-gas “fingerprint” simulated by climate models (Santer et al., 2008). Considered in isolation, the greenhouse-gas increases during the last 150 years would have caused a warming larger than that actually measured, but negative feedback from clouds and aerosols has offset part of the warming. In addition, because the oceans take decades to centuries to respond fully to climatic forcing, the climate system has yet to register the full effect of gas increases in recent decades.

These advances in scientific understanding of recent warming form the basis for projections of future changes. If greenhouse-gas emissions follow the current trajectory, by 2100 atmospheric CO2 concentrations will reach two to four times pre-industrial levels, for a total warming of less than 2 °C to more than 5 °C compared to 1850. This range of changes in greenhouse gas concentrations and temperature would substantially alter the functioning of the planet in many ways. The projected changes involve risk to humans and other species: (1) continued shrinking of Arctic sea ice with effects on native cultures and ice-dependent biota; (2) less snow accumulation and earlier melt in mountains, with reductions in spring and summer runoff for agricultural and municipal water; (3) disappearance of mountain glaciers and their late-summer runoff; (4) increased evaporation from farmland soils and stress on crops; (5) greater soil erosion due to increases in heavy convective summer rainfall; (6) longer fire seasons and increases in fire frequency; (7) severe insect outbreaks in vulnerable forests; (8) acidification of the global ocean; and (9) fundamental changes in the composition, functioning, and biodiversity of many terrestrial and marine ecosystems. In addition, melting of Greenland and West Antarctic ice (still highly uncertain as to amount), along with thermal expansion of seawater and melting of mountain glaciers and small ice caps, will cause substantial future sea-level rise along densely populated coastal regions, inundating farmland and dislocating large populations. Because large, abrupt climatic changes occurred within spans of just decades during previous ice-sheet fluctuations, the possibility exists for rapid future changes as ice sheets become vulnerable to large greenhouse-gas increases. Finally, carbon-climate model simulations indicate that 10–20% of the anthropogenic CO2 “pulse” could stay in the atmosphere for thousands of years, extending the duration of fossil-fuel warming and its effects on humans and other species. The acidification of the global ocean and its effects on ocean life are projected to last for tens of thousands of years.
 

k2skier

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And you and your site are full of shit. USGS, a real source for such information.

USGS Professional Paper 1386-F: Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World -- Asia

This chapter is the ninth to be released in U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386, Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World, a series of 11 chapters. In each of the geographic area chapters, remotely sensed images, primarily from the Landsat 1, 2, and 3 series of spacecraft, are used to analyze the specific glacierized region of our planet under consideration and to monitor glacier changes. Landsat images, acquired primarily during the middle to late 1970s and early 1980s, were used by an international team of glaciologists and other scientists to study various geographic regions and (or) to discuss related glaciological topics. In each glacierized geographic region, the present areal distribution of glaciers is compared, wherever possible, with historical information about their past extent. The atlas provides an accurate regional inventory of the areal extent of glacier ice on our planet during the 1970s as part of a growing international scientific effort to measure global environmental change on the Earth’s surface.
Whatever. You believe what you want. All I know is we had one of the coldest winters here in Washington and we had snow in the mountains falling through April! They kept the ski areas open through May because they had so much snow on the ground. But, you believe whatever your little heart desires, sweetie.
Are you this stupid? Or do you just talk without any actual knowledge of the alpine??!!

The snowfall from the last week of December through the second week of February was almost non-existent, less than 15% of normal (at Mt Hood anyway).

It was just slightly cooler than an average winter in the Cascades.

PS-what the fuck does a volcanic lahar have to do with global mean temps?? you are one twisted moron.
 
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And you and your site are full of shit. USGS, a real source for such information.

USGS Professional Paper 1386-F: Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World -- Asia

This chapter is the ninth to be released in U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386, Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World, a series of 11 chapters. In each of the geographic area chapters, remotely sensed images, primarily from the Landsat 1, 2, and 3 series of spacecraft, are used to analyze the specific glacierized region of our planet under consideration and to monitor glacier changes. Landsat images, acquired primarily during the middle to late 1970s and early 1980s, were used by an international team of glaciologists and other scientists to study various geographic regions and (or) to discuss related glaciological topics. In each glacierized geographic region, the present areal distribution of glaciers is compared, wherever possible, with historical information about their past extent. The atlas provides an accurate regional inventory of the areal extent of glacier ice on our planet during the 1970s as part of a growing international scientific effort to measure global environmental change on the Earth’s surface.
Whatever. You believe what you want. All I know is we had one of the coldest winters here in Washington and we had snow in the mountains falling through April! They kept the ski areas open through May because they had so much snow on the ground. But, you believe whatever your little heart desires, sweetie.
Are you this stupid? Or do you just talk without any actual knowledge of the alpine??!!

The snowfall from the last week of December through the second week of February was almost non-existent, less than 15% of normal (at Mt Hood anyway).

It was just slightly cooler than an average winter in the Cascades.

PS-what the fuck does a volcanic lahar have to do with global mean temps?? you are one twisted moron.
hmm, interesting: Storm Brings Heavy Snow to the Cascades - News Story - KTVZ Bend

This was dated November 2010.

BEND, Ore. -- A vigorous storm dropped about a foot of snow at pass levels of the Cascades by Thursday morning, buoying the hopes of skiers for a Thanksgiving present, but there was relatively little precipitation over most of the High Desert, as temperatures nudged above freezing.

The National Weather Service extended its winter storm warning in the mountains to midnight, as driving conditions worsened and chains or traction tires were required over the passes.

Redmond Airport had light rain and 35 degrees at 9 a.m. Thursday, but it was at the freezing level at Bend Airport, where light rain also was reported.

NewsChannel 21 Chief Meteorologist Bob Shaw said the storm would bring mixed showers, turning to snow on the High Desert, with highs approaching 40 winds and gusty southwest winds 10-20 mph. The chance of snow showers will linger as lows drop to the cold upper teens to lower 20s - and if roads are snowy or wet, no doubt posing a slick driving danger.

Winter Weather Advisory For Olympic, Cascade Mountains - News Story - KIRO Seattle -- this was December 2010.

WSDOT - 2010 - Winter weather forecast for Cascade Mountain passes; WSDOT allows studded tires starting today - October 2010.

and: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/125688213.html - Nearly nine months after opening on Nov. 18, 2010, Crystal Mountain is ending the longest ski season in its 48-year history.

The extra-long season, which ends Saturday, was made possible by record-breaking snowfall that continued to dump throughout the spring.

The previous season record was set during the 1998-1999 season, with 592 inches of snowfall and a closing date of July 14, 1999.

But this season the mountain received a total of 612 inches of snow between November 2010 and June 2011.


Remember "mountains don't care" -- and you can act like a 10 year old and call me every name in the book. I'm 61 and I've heard 'em all.
 
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Old Rocks

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You are 61 and you state that the glaciers on Rainier are growing? Are you blind, also? I was born in '43, and have hiked on Rainier many times, and observed the shrinkage of the glaciers there up close and in person. Have seen the same thing in the North Cascades. Have seen earlier melts and later snows almost every year for the last 30 years in the Cascades, the Sierras, and the Rockies.

Yes, last year had more snow than usual. As it should, seeing it was a super La Nina. Yet we only had one week of cold weather in Portland last winter. The rest of the winter was just cool and wet.

Get out of your wingnut talking points and look around you. You are on ground zero for warming in the continental US. Our glaciers are rapidly receding, and winters getting shorter every decade. Yes, there are year to year variations depending on the ENSO conditions, but the trend is clear.
 
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You are 61 and you state that the glaciers on Rainier are growing? Are you blind, also? I was born in '43, and have hiked on Rainier many times, and observed the shrinkage of the glaciers there up close and in person. Have seen the same thing in the North Cascades. Have seen earlier melts and later snows almost every year for the last 30 years in the Cascades, the Sierras, and the Rockies.

Yes, last year had more snow than usual. As it should, seeing it was a super La Nina. Yet we only had one week of cold weather in Portland last winter. The rest of the winter was just cool and wet.

Get out of your wingnut talking points and look around you. You are on ground zero for warming in the continental US. Our glaciers are rapidly receding, and winters getting shorter every decade. Yes, there are year to year variations depending on the ENSO conditions, but the trend is clear.
It's a free country, at least for now, and you are entitled to believe whatever Al Gore tells you to believe. have a nice life, down there in the People's Republic of Oregon. Get out of your "loony left" talking points and think for a minute: if ice ages ended thousands of years ago without the help of people driving cars or otherwise burning fossil fuels, then how in the hell could people pull that off now? It's nuts. I don't believe it, I'll never believe it, over half the people in the country don't believe it. The glaciers have melted and froze again and again and will continue to do so whether we drive our SUVs or not. I don't just "hike at Mt. Rainier" once in a while - I SEE it every single day!
 

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