The John Kennedy assassination ..who's who on the Grassy Knoll

[ginscpy]

It must have made Jackies skin crawl when LBJ called her up a few days after the assn and called her "dear" and "Is there anything I can do to help.?"

She thoght LBJ was the one who ordered the assn.

 

[Rationalist1016]

So, what is your take on the whole thing? Oswald alone? Oswald in on a Conspiracy? No Oswald at all?

It is interesting to hear the perspective of someone that has been on the Knoll. I have been in Dallas a couple times for work, but unfortunately didn't have the opportunity to walk around the site. All I got was to drive through there at dusk. That doesn't give you a good layout of the land. What I did observe, was that Elm street is a steeper hill than I previously thought it was.

Elm is sloped, but that adds to why the Grassy Knoll is a good place to be, because the angle is straight on, but the front of the car would be tilted down allowing a better view of the open rear seats. No need to shoot through the windshield. Anyone standing up there can see it as cars drive down the road.

I don't know if Oswald was in it, alone or not. All I know is that it would be an extremely unlikely coincidence that many witnesses on the day pointed to the very place that would have been the perfect spot for a sniper assassin.

The only problem I have with the Knoll, at least for the kill shot, is that a shot fired from that position, with the car where it was, would cause the bullet to travel right to left through Kennedy. And there is no evidence that happened. There was no damage to left side of Kennedy's head or even to the left side of his brain. Photos and x-rays show all the damage to the right side. And the x-rays show the trail of metal fragments traveling back to front (or front to back, which ever you believe) all on the right side.
So, I don't think the kill shot could have been fired from that location. That is just my opinion.

 

[StashMan]

Okay I'm not saying this is how it happened, I just want to share this because it is viable.

This shows that the head-shot could have come from the storm drain in from the Presidential limo.

SIGHTINGS

 

[ginscpy]

So, what is your take on the whole thing? Oswald alone? Oswald in on a Conspiracy? No Oswald at all?

It is interesting to hear the perspective of someone that has been on the Knoll. I have been in Dallas a couple times for work, but unfortunately didn't have the opportunity to walk around the site. All I got was to drive through there at dusk. That doesn't give you a good layout of the land. What I did observe, was that Elm street is a steeper hill than I previously thought it was.

Elm is sloped, but that adds to why the Grassy Knoll is a good place to be, because the angle is straight on, but the front of the car would be tilted down allowing a better view of the open rear seats. No need to shoot through the windshield. Anyone standing up there can see it as cars drive down the road.

I don't know if Oswald was in it, alone or not. All I know is that it would be an extremely unlikely coincidence that many witnesses on the day pointed to the very place that would have been the perfect spot for a sniper assassin.

The only problem I have with the Knoll, at least for the kill shot, is that a shot fired from that position, with the car where it was, would cause the bullet to travel right to left through Kennedy. And there is no evidence that happened. There was no damage to left side of Kennedy's head or even to the left side of his brain. Photos and x-rays show all the damage to the right side. And the x-rays show the trail of metal fragments traveling back to front (or front to back, which ever you believe) all on the right side.
So, I don't think the kill shot could have been fired from that location. That is just my opinion.

look at all that foliage in the recent photo.

sure watered the trees

 

[LA RAM FAN]

While I know a lot more goes on behind the scenes than some people realize, I also know that it takes a huge people-machine to make such a system work.....and people talk. Having worked for Uncle Sam for 21 years, I can tell that most of the power comes from the will of so many people working together, not just one person or a small group of people.

In fact, I'm amazed we get so much done as we do such as NASA. Congress? They've rendered themselves impotent because of their self-involved concern to become reelected.

congress is bought off and paid for.anybody who does get into congress and wants to change things,the establishment gets them thrown out of office.they vote themselves to have all these huge pay raises while the american peoples minimun wages just barely get higher every 5 years or so.They get all these special perks that the american people never get.

The trolls here that think oswald killed kennedy think that congress is out for us and wants to take care of us,that they are honest people looking out for our best interests.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

It must have made Jackies skin crawl when LBJ called her up a few days after the assn and called her "dear" and "Is there anything I can do to help.?"

She thoght LBJ was the one who ordered the assn.

yeah thats a safe bet.LbJ really rubbed it in her nose.Immediately after the assassination,he had all of her furniture and her belongings,taken out of the white house the next day.what a nice man with a big heart huh?

 

[Divine Wind]

yeah thats a safe bet.LbJ really rubbed it in her nose.Immediately after the assassination,he had all of her furniture and her belongings,taken out of the white house the next day.what a nice man with a big heart huh?

More like two weeks. LBJ was an arrogant ass whom I blame for mishandling Viet Nam, but I doubt he ordered a "hit" on JFK and he certainly didn't kick Jackie Kennedy out the next day.

The Capital: Moving Out - TIME

Jackie Kennedy moved out of the White House on a sunny but crisply cool afternoon late last week. Until her departure, last-minute deliveries kept arriving at the red brick Georgetown house lent to her by Under Secretary of State Averell Harriman.

The article contains some interesting historical tidbits like this one:

In the east wing of the White House, letters offering prayers and sympathy for Jackie piled up in stacks six feet high —over 300,000 in all. And at the Treasury Department Building, Jackie, expressionless, watched Treasury Secretary Douglas Dillon award the department's citation for "exceptional bravery" to Secret Service Man Clinton J. Hill. It was Hill, assigned to protect Jackie since the day she became First Lady, who ran to the rear of the presidential limousine in Dallas after Kennedy had been killed, clambered onto the bumper and clutched Jackie's hand as she pulled him aboard.

At Their Father's Side. At Jackie's request, the remains of her two dead children—Patrick Bouvier, who died last August less than 48 hours after caesarean birth, and a girl stillborn in 1956—were reburied beside their father in Arlington National Cemetery. There was no advance announcement; instead, the transfer was moved up by a day when it appeared that newsmen might get wind of it. Patrick's body was accompanied to Quonset, R.I., from the Kennedy burial plot at Brookline, Mass., by Boston's Richard Cardinal Gushing and Municipal Judge Francis X. Morrissey, both family friends. The stillborn girl was brought by a Catholic priest from Newport, R.I.

At Quonset, the small white coffins were put aboard the Kennedy family plane, Caroline, as it stood, deliberately inconspicuous, at a far corner of the airfield. Senator Edward Kennedy accompanied them on the two-hour flight to Washington. At 8:40 that evening, a handful of relatives and close friends stood with Jackie during a 20-minute burial service in the flickering light of the "eternal flame" that burns at the head of John Kennedy's grave.

Read more: The Capital: Moving Out - TIME

 

[Obamerican]

It must have made Jackies skin crawl when LBJ called her up a few days after the assn and called her "dear" and "Is there anything I can do to help.?"

She thoght LBJ was the one who ordered the assn.

yeah thats a safe bet.LbJ really rubbed it in her nose.Immediately after the assassination,he had all of her furniture and her belongings,taken out of the white house the next day.what a nice man with a big heart huh?

That is total bullshit. I'll bet your dumbass wasn't even alive when JFK was shot, you moron.

 

[7forever]

So, what is your take on the whole thing? Oswald alone? Oswald in on a Conspiracy? No Oswald at all?

The only problem I have with the Knoll, at least for the kill shot, is that a shot fired from that position, with the car where it was, would cause the bullet to travel right to left through Kennedy. And there is no evidence that happened. There was no damage to left side of Kennedy's head or even to the left side of his brain. Photos and x-rays show all the damage to the right side. And the x-rays show the trail of metal fragments traveling back to front (or front to back, which ever you believe) all on the right side.
So, I don't think the kill shot could have been fired from that location. That is just my opinion.

I've posted about the right side being impossible as have many researchers. Greer's testimony and the only metal fragments being recovered behind the right eye confirm the entry by Greer over the right eye. The WC reversed it with a fantasy wound path.

 

[daws101]

The only problem I have with the Knoll, at least for the kill shot, is that a shot fired from that position, with the car where it was, would cause the bullet to travel right to left through Kennedy. And there is no evidence that happened. There was no damage to left side of Kennedy's head or even to the left side of his brain. Photos and x-rays show all the damage to the right side. And the x-rays show the trail of metal fragments traveling back to front (or front to back, which ever you believe) all on the right side.
So, I don't think the kill shot could have been fired from that location. That is just my opinion.

I've posted about the right side being impossible as have many researchers. Greer's testimony and the only metal fragments being recovered behind the right eye confirm the entry by Greer over the right eye. The WC reversed it with a fantasy wound path.

oops wrong post ! sorry!

 

[Divine Wind]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x207/Dawson_026/steamingpileofpoo.jpg[/IMG]

You erred in the quotation and it makes it appear I wrote something which I did not. Please correct it. Thanks.

 

[daws101]

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x207/Dawson_026/steamingpileofpoo.jpg[/IMG]

You erred in the quotation and it makes it appear I wrote something which I did not. Please correct it. Thanks.

fixed. once again sorry!

 

[daws101]

The only problem I have with the Knoll, at least for the kill shot, is that a shot fired from that position, with the car where it was, would cause the bullet to travel right to left through Kennedy. And there is no evidence that happened. There was no damage to left side of Kennedy's head or even to the left side of his brain. Photos and x-rays show all the damage to the right side. And the x-rays show the trail of metal fragments traveling back to front (or front to back, which ever you believe) all on the right side.
So, I don't think the kill shot could have been fired from that location. That is just my opinion.

I've posted about the right side being impossible as have many researchers. Greer's testimony and the only metal fragments being recovered behind the right eye confirm the entry by Greer over the right eye. The WC reversed it with a fantasy wound path.

this is the post !

 

[Rationalist1016]

What is going on with the quotes? Why am I shown saying something that I DID NOT?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

yeah thats a safe bet.LbJ really rubbed it in her nose.Immediately after the assassination,he had all of her furniture and her belongings,taken out of the white house the next day.what a nice man with a big heart huh?

More like two weeks. LBJ was an arrogant ass whom I blame for mishandling Viet Nam, but I doubt he ordered a "hit" on JFK and he certainly didn't kick Jackie Kennedy out the next day.

The Capital: Moving Out - TIME

Jackie Kennedy moved out of the White House on a sunny but crisply cool afternoon late last week. Until her departure, last-minute deliveries kept arriving at the red brick Georgetown house lent to her by Under Secretary of State Averell Harriman.

The article contains some interesting historical tidbits like this one:

In the east wing of the White House, letters offering prayers and sympathy for Jackie piled up in stacks six feet high —over 300,000 in all. And at the Treasury Department Building, Jackie, expressionless, watched Treasury Secretary Douglas Dillon award the department's citation for "exceptional bravery" to Secret Service Man Clinton J. Hill. It was Hill, assigned to protect Jackie since the day she became First Lady, who ran to the rear of the presidential limousine in Dallas after Kennedy had been killed, clambered onto the bumper and clutched Jackie's hand as she pulled him aboard.

At Their Father's Side. At Jackie's request, the remains of her two dead children—Patrick Bouvier, who died last August less than 48 hours after caesarean birth, and a girl stillborn in 1956—were reburied beside their father in Arlington National Cemetery. There was no advance announcement; instead, the transfer was moved up by a day when it appeared that newsmen might get wind of it. Patrick's body was accompanied to Quonset, R.I., from the Kennedy burial plot at Brookline, Mass., by Boston's Richard Cardinal Gushing and Municipal Judge Francis X. Morrissey, both family friends. The stillborn girl was brought by a Catholic priest from Newport, R.I.

At Quonset, the small white coffins were put aboard the Kennedy family plane, Caroline, as it stood, deliberately inconspicuous, at a far corner of the airfield. Senator Edward Kennedy accompanied them on the two-hour flight to Washington. At 8:40 that evening, a handful of relatives and close friends stood with Jackie during a 20-minute burial service in the flickering light of the "eternal flame" that burns at the head of John Kennedy's grave.

Read more: The Capital: Moving Out - TIME

naw he didnt order the hit but he knew about it all.Nixon,Johnson,connolly and hoover were all friends with each other and they all hated the kennedys.that was very well known.That was why connolly shocked the nation when after serving with Johnson,he switched parties and just from the democrat party to the republican party so he could serve with his other buddy DICK Nixon.He pretty much blew it that he knew there was a conspiracy to kil him when after he was shot he shouted out-OH MY GOD,THEIR GOING TO KISS US ALL.he was obviously thinking when he got shot,oh my god,their not just going to kill kennedy,their going to kill me to,they are going to kiss us all.

as I said earlier,according to ralph yarbrough who rode with LBJ,LBJ before the shots were fired,bout 10 seconds prior,he said johnson was ducking down and before they entered dealy plaza,he was on a radio talking to people which he thought was very weird and strange for him to be doing that.also,its funny that you mentioned Harriman because the Bush family has a long drawn out history of being friends with the Harriman family.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The only problem I have with the Knoll, at least for the kill shot, is that a shot fired from that position, with the car where it was, would cause the bullet to travel right to left through Kennedy. And there is no evidence that happened. There was no damage to left side of Kennedy's head or even to the left side of his brain. Photos and x-rays show all the damage to the right side. And the x-rays show the trail of metal fragments traveling back to front (or front to back, which ever you believe) all on the right side.
So, I don't think the kill shot could have been fired from that location. That is just my opinion.

I've posted about the right side being impossible as have many researchers. Greer's testimony and the only metal fragments being recovered behind the right eye confirm the entry by Greer over the right eye. The WC reversed it with a fantasy wound path.

the lone nut theorists fail miserably in the fact all the dallas doctors said the back of his head was blasted out with an entrance wound to the throat and to the forehead as well.the photos were obvious forgerys.the two main men in charge of the autopsy at bethesda had never even done one before.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Elm is sloped, but that adds to why the Grassy Knoll is a good place to be, because the angle is straight on, but the front of the car would be tilted down allowing a better view of the open rear seats. No need to shoot through the windshield. Anyone standing up there can see it as cars drive down the road.

I don't know if Oswald was in it, alone or not. All I know is that it would be an extremely unlikely coincidence that many witnesses on the day pointed to the very place that would have been the perfect spot for a sniper assassin.

The only problem I have with the Knoll, at least for the kill shot, is that a shot fired from that position, with the car where it was, would cause the bullet to travel right to left through Kennedy. And there is no evidence that happened. There was no damage to left side of Kennedy's head or even to the left side of his brain. Photos and x-rays show all the damage to the right side. And the x-rays show the trail of metal fragments traveling back to front (or front to back, which ever you believe) all on the right side.
So, I don't think the kill shot could have been fired from that location. That is just my opinion.

look at all that foliage in the recent photo.

sure watered the trees

thanks for posting that pic.we know oswald also could not have done it because the photos taken back then show that the trees were in his line of fire and he would have had to shoot between the tree's.No way would an experience riflemen wait for him to get off houston when he has a straight line fire and no obstruction in front of him and wait for him to go down elm where it is a far more difficult shot.

There was definetely a team of snipers down there that day.Not only did you have a few witnesses saying they saw a man on the grassy knoll firing a rifle,but other witnesses said they saw gunmen firing from over behind those trees as well next to that white buiding on the far right closeup.

Those shooters were there as a diversion to get everybody going in different directions so the shooters in the dal tex building could get away and for the diversionary shooters that were behind the fence where zapruder was,they of course had CIA men posing as secret service agents.we know there were men posing as ss agents because patrolmen joe smith ran up the knoll and the guy flashed his badge to him and told him he was a secret service agent.we also know no secret agents were on foot that day because they reported they were not so we obviously had some imperonaters inpersonating them.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Increase your screen size to 200% and watch the area over Greer's right shoulder. It pops in unison with the headshot. It's most noticeable at normal speed.

This old copy shows the same recoil/jolt backward but with video fakery. You can also see the fake red mist appear before the full blotch forms.
jpg[/IMG]

What a shock..................you didn't address the question that I had asked.
Do you remember? The one about Connolly being in the line of fire. So, how about it?

I've also noticed you have not addressed Liability's question about the movement of Kennedy's head. Which is an EXCELLENT question by the way.

If you wanna continue your delusions that Connally was in the way, that's your business. You said the timing was off meaning that you do see his arm cross, so it is clear. I showed the muzzle blast is in perfect sync with the fake reflection. It's all going forward.

yeah thats hysterical his delusions that connolly was in the way. If he did not close his eyes all the time while looking at the film,he would see that connolly is turning to the right looking over his right shoulder to see that he has been shot.He knew better than to look to his left since he knew Greer was going to fire at him.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Sure I can. My position is now and has always been that we have been lied to by our Government, and that we need a REAL investigation into this matter. As to your questions:

Multiple shots were fired for two reasons.
1. To insure the death of Kennedy
2. To confuse this issue by having different witness opinions of where the shots came from.

For most people it would not be possible to change records etc..if they were involved in a murder conspiracy, but that is not the case if the Government was involved. It would be more than possible.

Its not the number of post on this thread, but the amount of evidence presented on it for which I made my earlier statement. It's just not this thread but everywhere this issue comes up there seems to be more evidence contradicting the warren report, than that that supports it.

Even though I disagree with most of that, I do REALLY appreciate the fact that you responded to questions with actual answers. And actually ask questions yourself. There are a couple on here that if you disagree with, your just an idiot and not worth discussing things with. It's nice to speak with someone that, even though we disagree on most of this, we can still discuss it.

As for the subject at hand; like I said earlier, I DO believe a cover-up is possible. There is one piece of evidence that I understand points to LBJ. I don't know if you have ever heard of Malcolm Wallace? It's my understanding that a single finger print that was pulled off of a box in the snipers nest that could not be traced to anybody was found to belong to Malcolm Wallace. Here is the information that I read:

In 1998, A. Nathan Darby executed an affadavit in which he confirmed a match between a latent fingerprint found on one of the cardboard boxes that comprised the TSBD "sniper's nest" and the inked print of Malcolm Wallace. Subsequently, Darby's match has been criticized by some people who have the requisite qualifications to critique his work, and by many who don't. A few observations on the debate that has surrounded the fingerprint issue follow, based on a wading through the mire of opinions over the years (with the significant caveat that I am certainly not professionally qualified in this field!!)

1.) Darby originally identified 14 matching points between the inked and latent prints that were given to him. While there is some debate on the amount of matching points necessary to make a definitive judgement on a match (The FBI suggests 8, some other countries require as many as 16, U.S. courts normally will accept 10-12, etc.), a 14 point match, testified to in court by a Certified Latent Print Examiner with proper experience and credentials, will generally clinch a case.

2.) Subsequently, criticism of Darby's match by fingerprint experts focused on dissimilarities between the latent and inked prints. Darby addressed these points directly, noting that Wallace had sustained an injury ("a laceration" ) which, upon healing, created a non-corresponding area near the "delta" in the latent. Other criticism amounted to ignoring the pressure distortion created by hoisting heavy boxes. Little or no substantive criticism was made of Darby's matching points.

3.) Darby's match was a BLIND match. Another Texas-based fingerprint expert, E.H. Hoffmeister, when presented with the two prints that had been given to Darby, concluded that they were made by the same person. When he was told that the Kennedy assassination was involved, he backed off the identification. The experts who concluded that the match was in error all knew the consequences of a positive match. In a perfect world this would not be important. In this world, unfortunately, even forensic judgements made by experienced scientists can be colored by many factors. The only two BLIND (i.e. scientifically proper) submissions of the latent print from the book carton and the inked Wallace print resulted in a match.

4.) The prints, and Darby's analysis, were submitted to the FBI for evaluation. After 18 months had passed, the Bureau released a simple statement that the print match was in error. No analysis accompanied the statement, and no further comment has been made by the FBI on this issue. I think that this verdict, backed by nothing but the (arguably dubious) history of FBI criminal science, is essentially worthless.

5.) Following the hubbub over the print match, Darby went back to the prints and spent a great deal of time (far more time than would normally be spent in a typical investigation), and eventually arrived at a 34 point match.

6.) Criticism has been levelled because Darby used photocopies rather than originals for his print comparison. Darby's professional critics used photocopies as well, though, and the copies that they used were, in a couple of cases, inferior to the copies Darby worked with. In this case, the point is probably moot. It might be relevant if we were dealing with a very few match points, some of which were being called into question. That's not the case here.

7.) If this print match did not have the importance that it obviously does, I seriously doubt that it would be at all controversial. Darby's 55 years of experience in his field, and his sterling record in court testimony over the years would easily carry the day. 34 matching points? Barring some extraordinary revelation, I think that Walt Brown's description of this print match as "a slam dunk" is probably correct.

It has been suggested that Mac Wallace's presence on the sixth floor of the TSBD on 11/22/63 might well represent an attempt to blackmail Lyndon Johnson into silence and support. Estes claims he heard from Cliff Carter that Wallace was a shooter. These questions about the use of Wallace in the assassination can and should be discussed. In future years, I doubt that Wallace's presence that day in SOME role or other will be seriously challenged.

When a CLPE with over a half century of experience makes a blind match, confirms it in an affadavit, stakes his reputation on it, offers to testify to it in court, deals with the objections of doubters, and states that, if he had to make a dying declaration on the matter, it would be "It's him!", I tend to believe that it WAS in fact 'him."

I have also watched an interview with Darby where he states pretty much the same thing.
So, that is pretty damning evidence for the "Oswald did it alone" theory. But, I would say that doesn't show that Oswald was NOT involved, but rather that it shows there was an associate of LBJ's up there with him. In what capacity or for what reason..........I can't really figure out.


One more thing, have you heard the theory that the driver of the limo fired the fatal shot? What is your take on that?

This was interesting reading. I did a search on Google for Malcolm Wallace and got his bio. So LBJ's brother in law was not only a convicted murderer, but a hit man as well. It is known that LBJ hated the Kennedy's, and the Kennedy's hated LBJ. I think most people would put LBJ in the mix somewhere. But I think it goes a bit deeper than that.

I am a believer in a shadow government. A power elite that control this country and others. This is a cabal of world government cronies and they are the same folks that own the Federal Reserve. I think this group has controlled all of our most highly placed officials since Roosevelt. Than Kennedy shows up and goes against their agenda. I think its more likely that LBJ was under their orders to kill Kennedy and cover it up than I do that he did so for a personal reason.



In his testimony to the Warren Commission he states that he made a trip to Cuba. This is interesting because Oswald was a part of the Pro-Castro movement. He also places himself in New Orleans which is where Oswald worked with the Pro-Castro movement. So I think that this and the fact eye witnesses state that they saw the two men together is enough to convince me that in fact they did.

In regard to the limousine driver I don't think there is enough video evidence to support it.
He would have had to be an incredible shot to throw his left arm over his right while driving, and shoot between the Texas Governor and his wife in order to hit the President. This is the reason that I don't think it was in the plan if he did do it. Many point to how the driver looks back at Kennedy. Well we must remember that he might of done so because Kennedy had already been shot once, and he might of been looking back to see if he was alright.

I also want to point out that there was another investigation into the assassination of Kennedy in 1976 or 79 that came to the conclusion that Oswald did not act alone, and that there had to be at least another shooter.

Look at this link about the power elite(The Insiders) and world government. Is this not what we are seeing right now.

Yahoo! Video Detail for 1958 - Great Speech by Robert Welch Founder of John Birch Society

the problem with that though stashman is that Greer had CIA connections and he violated every protocal in ss regulations by turning around like that and stopping the car.ALL the ss agents violated their protocals that day by destroying and removing evidence on the orders of Johnson.the fact that Greer was not prosecuted or even reprimanded for his disgraceful actions,is proof that it was a home grown plot which Johnson was just covering up like you said.he didnt orchestrate it.The CIA/military did. Greer had plenty of traning and knew that upon hearing shots like that,that he needed to accelerate the limo and get the president out of the line of fire instead of committing treason and stopping the car and looking back like he did.Greer and the ss agents should have been burned at the stake for their treasonous crimes.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Sorry bout that,


1. 1. or 2.
2.Thats all I ask.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

He's not going to answer that question. Trust me, I've already tried to get simple answers to simple questions........................not going to happen.

!

Here's a simple question you won't answer. If Greer's arm crossing was innnocent then why did they edit that out of Zapruder with silly video fakery from 63?

the trolls always ignore that little tidbit,they can only fling shit in defeat like the monkeys they are everytime.Yeah why edit out his left arm going back if it was pure innocent? nobody can ever give a rational answer to that.