Zone1 The Invisible Racialization of Whites

[BackAgain]

This does not apply to all whites, but there is a subculture in the white community that claims not to see race while holding virulent racist views. In this subculture, people claim to not be taught to see race, but the reality is they are not taught to see themselves as a race. In this subculture this is what they see when they say American:

View attachment 664567


“The dominant group [whites] control the construction of reality through the production of ideologies or “knowledge” that circulate throughout society where they inform social norms, organizational practices, bureaucratic procedures, and common-sense knowledge. In this way, the interests of the oppressors are presented as reflecting everyone’s best interests, thereby getting oppressed groups to accept the dominant group’s interests as their own and minimize conflict.”

Pike, Karen D, “What is Internalized Racial Oppression and Why Don't We Study It? Acknowledging Racism's Hidden Injuries”, December 1, 2010, Sociological Perspectives, Vol. 53, Issue 4, pp. 551–572 Internalized Racism Among Asians

“Whiteness is what I call the “transcendental norm,” which means that whiteness goes unmarked. As unmarked, white people are able to live their identities as unraced, as simply human, as persons. And this obfuscates the ways in which their lives depend upon various affordances that black people and people of color don’t possess.”

Is white America ready to confront its racism? Philosopher George Yancy says we need a 'crisis'

In his new book, philosopher George Yancy uncovers just how unprepared even well-meaning whites are for a courageous conversation about race

www.theguardian.com

George Yancey puts the finger on the cause of the amnesia that seems to exist in parts of the white community. When this subculture sees a mental picture of an American, they see a white person. Ask Mitch McConnell if you don’t think so. His comments about blacks voting just like Americans were not slips of the tongue or gaffes. Part of the white community has conflated the word American to mean white and claim they do not see race when that is all they see. They do not think twice about how that is racist.

So because white has been used as default for normal we see debates about the experiences of others caused by whites get derailed and gaslighted with accusations of racism againsthose who present that side of Amerca and the claim of how we need to see each others as individuals.

Understanding the concept of discourse and the discourse of individualism shows me that “individualism” is just another method used in white supremacy. As I read and re-read writings on the discourse of individualism, I find that for people to consistently talk about how we should look at each other as individuals and not as races is an insult. Whites who believe strongly in individualism may not see it that way, but that is not my concern here. This belief says that we must ignore our experiences and history. What we have experienced as blacks did not happen to us individually.

"The Discourse of Individualism is a claim that we all act independently from one another and that we all have the same possibility of achievement and are unmarked by social positions such as race, class, and gender. As Mill states, however, “The reality is that one can pretend the body does not matter only because a particular body… [white] is being presupposed as the somatic norm.” The Discourse of Individualism posits race as irrelevant. In fact, claiming that race is relevant to one’s life chances is seen as limiting one’s ability to stand on one’s own; standing on one’s own is both the assumption and the goal of Individualism. Because it obscures how social positioning impacts opportunity, the Discourse of Individualism is a dominant discourse that functions ideologically to reinforce and reproduce relations of unequal power." - Robin DeAngelo

Dr. Robin DiAngelo, White Fragility: International Journal of Critical Pedagogy, Vol 3 (2011) pp. 54, White Fragility | DiAngelo | The International Journal of Critical Pedagogy

Dr. Robin DiAngelo, Why Can’t We All Just Be Individuals? Countering the Discourse of Individualism in Anti-racist Education, pg. 16

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/deibexplorer/files/why_cant_we_all_just_be_individuals.pdf

The argument of individualism, when used to excuse personal responsibility to erase racism from this society, is disingenuous. Individualism removes the collective responsibility whites have to end racism in their communities because “they are an individual and did not do it, so find those who did,” is the attitude you get from whites who use individualism as a denial. Those who argue about individualism would have a case if racism was practiced in a way that harmed a few individuals while being done by just a few people. Racism is a macro-level problem. Individualism is a micro-level philosophy. At its most elementary level, the definition of American is a GROUP of people living in the United States. Group identification doesn’t seem to be a problem for those who use the flag as a shield.

The bottom lie is that white is a race. When you talk about being white, you are talking about race. When you conflate American for white, you are talking about race. As a race, yuou are included in Affirmative Action.

 

[BackAgain]

"This does not apply to all whites, but there is a subculture in the white community that claims not to see race while holding virulent racist views. In this subculture, people claim to not be taught to see race, but the reality is they are not taught to see themselves as a race. In this subculture this is what they see when they say American:"

What you call black racism is not racism.

What you deny is black racism is still racism.

 

[Friends]

I am a white man of European origins. Madison Grant would have called me a Nordic, because my ancestors were German, German speaking Swiss, English, and Norwegian.

I do not take pride being what I am racially, because I was born that way; it is not an achievement. With the exception of the American Indians, I do not feel collective guilt about the behavior of whites to other races, especially Negroes. I think the high rate of black poverty is due to low average black intelligence, which in turn is genetic. I think the high rate of black incarceration is due to the high black crime rate, which again is genetic.

I am opposed to affirmative action, racial reparations, and any government assistance to single mothers with illegitimate children. I am also in favor of a much tougher, meaner criminal justice system.

I admire Jews, respect Judaism, and love Israel, although I am a Gentile. I prefer Orientals to whites. By the criteria I care about, Orientals tend to be superior to whites.

 

[Lisa558]

There isn't any racism to speak of except towards white people. The colored folks get to do and say pretty much what they want. And blacks are given stuff. Look at Kamala and Ketanji. Those two are embarrassingly unqualified for their positions. And yet they were given them without earning them. That's wrong.

What about the one who reads prepared answers to press questions? I could have done a better job as a college freshman.

 

[Friends]

You are a racist. And both these women were imminently qualified.

Black social pathology causes white racism. White racism does not cause black social pathology.

 

[DGS49]

I think it might be instructive to keep in mind the differences between and among, racism, prejudice, and [harmful] discrimination.

Anyone who chooses to look at history realistically will realize and conclude that the people whom we currently identify as "white" are responsible for an infinite mountain of accomplishments that enrich everyone's life today. I speak of science, technology, the arts, literature, architecture, agronomy, medicine, and so on. It is a MOUNTAIN of invention, discover, and accomplishment. Other races fall far short when viewed in comparison with "white" people. And "Black" people are at the bottom of the chart when these accomplishments are measured and counted.

Of course, this has nothing to do with individuals of any race, who may be brilliant or moronic, as the case may be. But as for the races, viewed as a whole, "white" people are at the top of the chart, by far.

So maybe it is "racist" to recognize this fact. But it is also harmless.

And we come to "prejudice." Prejudice presupposes some interaction. If someone who knows what is described in the preceding paragraphs, then PRESUMES that people who are "white" are, as individuals, somehow superior to people of other races, and conversely that people who are "black" are inferior, that is prejudice.

But prejudice is unavoidable. It is mentioned here in a racial context, but it exists in every aspect of human interaction. If you are hiring a computer programmer, and one applicant comes in looking like a "nerd," and another comes in looking like a "jock," the jock will have to make a case on his own behalf that even though he does not look like a typical computer programmer, he is a competent programmer. One example of an infinite number.

Sometimes "black" people will have to make their own case to prove that they are qualified for whatever it is that is being sought. So what? Short basketball players have to do the same thing, regardless of race.

And we come down to discrimination, per se. "I won't hire a Black guy to work behind the counter in my pizza shop!" "There's no way a Black woman can be a competent electrical engineer!" And so on.

"We" can pass laws that prohibit racial discrimination, but those laws generally only apply to government agencies, government contractors, and employers large enough to warrant government scrutiny. Small companies and organizations, and UNIONS, often fly under the radar when it comes to legal and regulatory scrutiny. So when possible "we" mandate "affirmative action" (under various titles) to DEMAND that such employers and organizations set aside a number of goodies for POC's - even as we deny that those set-asides exist.

A good argument can be made that "affirmative action" is a nearly-equal counterpart to the harmful racial discrimination that remains, and furthermore, factors within the "Black" community - mainly bastardy - explains virtually all income inequality, though not wealth inequality, which is a broader issue.

So take racism and prejudice off the table. They are universal and unavoidable. Work on harmful discrimination, and only where it can be demonstrated rationally. For example, don't tell me that "Black kids are disciplined in school more than 'white' kids." We all know why that is, and it has nothing to do with discrimination against Blacks.

 

[Friends]

Prejudice is the result of previous experience. I have never talked to a white person who attended a black majority school who had a favorable opinion of blacks.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Prejudice is the result of previous experience. I have never talked to a white person who attended a black majority school who had a favorable opinion of blacks.

My son did in grammar school.

His experience was so horrendous that we moved to another state before he hit middle school.

We saved him by doing so.

 

[Friends]

My son did in grammar school.

His experience was so horrendous that we moved to another state before he hit middle school.

We saved him by doing so.

Yours is a reality the mainstream media has not reported. During the controversy over school integration and forced school integration the official story from the media was of howling mobs of white racists threatening innocent black children who only wanted to get a good education.

In order to see what most blacks are really like it is usually necessary to see them up close on terms of approximate equality in an environment where they are in the majority. When blacks are in a small minority most try to behave. When they are in the majority most behave the way they want to behave. Many do not want to behave well.

The problem is genetic. Social reform and social welfare spending have not improved black behavior. Black behavior has gotten worse since the beginning of 1964. Human evolution has not prepared most Negroes for the characteristics necessary to contribute to civilization. These are intelligence, obedience to the law, and monogamy.

Blacks are not white people with dark skin. The Negro race represents an earlier stage of human evolution.

 

[Mashmont]

Of course you do.

This does not apply to all whites, but there is a subculture in the white community that claims not to see race while holding virulent racist views. In this subculture, people claim to not be taught to see race, but the reality is they are not taught to see themselves as a race. In this subculture this is what they see when they say American:

View attachment 664567


“The dominant group [whites] control the construction of reality through the production of ideologies or “knowledge” that circulate throughout society where they inform social norms, organizational practices, bureaucratic procedures, and common-sense knowledge. In this way, the interests of the oppressors are presented as reflecting everyone’s best interests, thereby getting oppressed groups to accept the dominant group’s interests as their own and minimize conflict.”

Pike, Karen D, “What is Internalized Racial Oppression and Why Don't We Study It? Acknowledging Racism's Hidden Injuries”, December 1, 2010, Sociological Perspectives, Vol. 53, Issue 4, pp. 551–572 Internalized Racism Among Asians

“Whiteness is what I call the “transcendental norm,” which means that whiteness goes unmarked. As unmarked, white people are able to live their identities as unraced, as simply human, as persons. And this obfuscates the ways in which their lives depend upon various affordances that black people and people of color don’t possess.”

Is white America ready to confront its racism? Philosopher George Yancy says we need a 'crisis'

In his new book, philosopher George Yancy uncovers just how unprepared even well-meaning whites are for a courageous conversation about race

www.theguardian.com

George Yancey puts the finger on the cause of the amnesia that seems to exist in parts of the white community. When this subculture sees a mental picture of an American, they see a white person. Ask Mitch McConnell if you don’t think so. His comments about blacks voting just like Americans were not slips of the tongue or gaffes. Part of the white community has conflated the word American to mean white and claim they do not see race when that is all they see. They do not think twice about how that is racist.

So because white has been used as default for normal we see debates about the experiences of others caused by whites get derailed and gaslighted with accusations of racism againsthose who present that side of Amerca and the claim of how we need to see each others as individuals.

Understanding the concept of discourse and the discourse of individualism shows me that “individualism” is just another method used in white supremacy. As I read and re-read writings on the discourse of individualism, I find that for people to consistently talk about how we should look at each other as individuals and not as races is an insult. Whites who believe strongly in individualism may not see it that way, but that is not my concern here. This belief says that we must ignore our experiences and history. What we have experienced as blacks did not happen to us individually.

"The Discourse of Individualism is a claim that we all act independently from one another and that we all have the same possibility of achievement and are unmarked by social positions such as race, class, and gender. As Mill states, however, “The reality is that one can pretend the body does not matter only because a particular body… [white] is being presupposed as the somatic norm.” The Discourse of Individualism posits race as irrelevant. In fact, claiming that race is relevant to one’s life chances is seen as limiting one’s ability to stand on one’s own; standing on one’s own is both the assumption and the goal of Individualism. Because it obscures how social positioning impacts opportunity, the Discourse of Individualism is a dominant discourse that functions ideologically to reinforce and reproduce relations of unequal power." - Robin DeAngelo

Dr. Robin DiAngelo, White Fragility: International Journal of Critical Pedagogy, Vol 3 (2011) pp. 54, White Fragility | DiAngelo | The International Journal of Critical Pedagogy

Dr. Robin DiAngelo, Why Can’t We All Just Be Individuals? Countering the Discourse of Individualism in Anti-racist Education, pg. 16

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/deibexplorer/files/why_cant_we_all_just_be_individuals.pdf

The argument of individualism, when used to excuse personal responsibility to erase racism from this society, is disingenuous. Individualism removes the collective responsibility whites have to end racism in their communities because “they are an individual and did not do it, so find those who did,” is the attitude you get from whites who use individualism as a denial. Those who argue about individualism would have a case if racism was practiced in a way that harmed a few individuals while being done by just a few people. Racism is a macro-level problem. Individualism is a micro-level philosophy. At its most elementary level, the definition of American is a GROUP of people living in the United States. Group identification doesn’t seem to be a problem for those who use the flag as a shield.

The bottom lie is that white is a race. When you talk about being white, you are talking about race. When you conflate American for white, you are talking about race. As a race, yuou are included in Affirmative Action.

When you show the ideal American family why wouldn't you want to show a family with TWO clean cut married parents and two well-scrubbed attractive children? That's the ideal, and it's far more typical in white families than black. And it's black culture that reinforces that difference.

Whenever you have an earnest bespectacled black student who's serious about his studies, the 'true blacks' accuse him of 'actin' white' as they knock his books out of his arms. If a black man vows to remain a virgin until marriage, the 'true blacks' will call him gay.

The black relationship culture is so screwed up. Here's an example. A few years ago, Chicago Bulls' star, Derrick Rose got into a fight with a teammate who Rose accused of having an affair with his 'second' girlfriend. See, Rose had a number one girlfriend already, the mother of most of his illegitimate kids. Not a wife mind you, a girlfriend. A shack up. But Rose had a second, girlfriend and sexmate. And this was where the problem was with his teammate. And the journalists reporting this didn't bat an eye at the obvious pervasive immorality going on here.

This is your black culture. Wanna be treated like the suburban whites? Act like the suburban whites.

 

[Riff Raff]

[Racist, anti-American ignorant garbage]

Your racist, slanderous anti-American posts should not be in Zone 1.

 

[Riff Raff]

You are a racist. And both these women were imminently qualified

Liar

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Imminently?

They will be qualified.......any second now.

 

[Riff Raff]

Yours is a reality the mainstream media has not reported. During the controversy over school integration and forced school integration the official story from the media was of howling mobs of white racists threatening innocent black children who only wanted to get a good education.

In order to see what most blacks are really like it is usually necessary to see them up close on terms of approximate equality in an environment where they are in the majority. When blacks are in a small minority most try to behave. When they are in the majority most behave the way they want to behave. Many do not want to behave well.

The problem is genetic. Social reform and social welfare spending have not improved black behavior. Black behavior has gotten worse since the beginning of 1964. Human evolution has not prepared most Negroes for the characteristics necessary to contribute to civilization. These are intelligence, obedience to the law, and monogamy.

Blacks are not white people with dark skin. The Negro race represents an earlier stage of human evolution.

"All our social policies are based on the notion that African intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really."
—Nobel Prize-winning genetic scientist

 

[Lisa558]

Liar

Agree. Anyone who thinks Kamala is qualified to be VP, when she just spews out word salad, and Karine is qualified to be press Secretary, when all she does is either read notes prepared by qualified people or just refuse to answer, is blinded by their favoritism toward blacks.

That these two women were installed into such prestigious positions, despite their glaring lack of ability to carry out their duties even semi-decently, is an example of what happens when you prioritize race and gender over qualifications.

 

[Lisa558]

Imminently?

I guess he means SOON they will be qualified. Problem is, we don’t have time to wait.

 

[alexa]

Some relevant reading...

The Bob Livingston Letter®

"Collectivism's ultimate propaganda message is that there is no such thing as inherent Individual rights or liberties and that all rights are arbitrary and subject to the whims of the group or the state."

That is interesting. These people were working to create a society where what happened to Jews in world war 2 would never happen to them or anyone else again. We certainly are moving towards fascism.

 

[alexa]

Actually, being a libertarian, to me, means not participating in mass insanity (private insanity is just fine).

During COVID, I went to work, I drove where I wanted, I didn't wear a mask, and I didn't vaccinate .... I also didn't get sick.

It wasn't a protest ... I just refused to participate in other people's insanity.

and unlike many others were incredibly lucky.

 

[Riff Raff]

Prejudice is the result of previous experience. I have never talked to a white person who attended a black majority school who had a favorable opinion of blacks.

I grew up and attended school kindergarten through high school in a suburb that never had any blacks. I had the opinion blacks were the same as everyone else but were mistreated, causing apparent differences.

After high school, I moved around some, including in a few different states and multiple cities. I continued to always live in nice suburbs.

I'm back in my home area. The downtown of the city has always been mostly nice and increasing numbers of people are moving there as more and more residences are developed to house them. For the first time in my life, I moved downtown to experience the city life.

I met a new friend who went to a mostly black school in the Chicago region. He didn't like some of black cultural behavior, which I perceived as "racism" but mostly kept quiet about it. He said his girlfriend also accused him of "racism," which aggravated him because he insisted his complaints were based on reality and facts experienced from living in a majority black community. He was an intelligent and educated man.

We lost touch, but now, after living in the big city for seven years and experiencing the reality of "diversity" up close and personal, I finally understand him. I owe him an apology.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I grew up and attended school kindergarten through high school in a suburb that never had any blacks. I had the opinion blacks were the same as everyone else but were mistreated, causing apparent differences.

After high school, I moved around some, including in a few different states and multiple cities. I continued to always live in nice suburbs.

I'm back in my home area. The downtown of the city has always been mostly nice and increasing numbers of people are moving there as more and more residences are developed to house them. For the first time in my life, I moved downtown to experience the city life.

I met a new friend who went to a mostly black school in the Chicago region. He didn't like some of black cultural behavior, which I perceived as "racism" but mostly kept quiet about it. He said his girlfriend also accused him of "racism," which aggravated him because he insisted his complaints were based on reality and facts experienced from living in a majority black community. He was an intelligent and educated man.

We lost touch, but now, after living in the big city for seven years and experiencing the reality of "diversity" up close and personal, I finally understand him. I owe him an apology.

Unfortunately, we live in a culture of complete double standards. White people are scrutinized to the nth degree looking for even the tiniest trace of racism, so much so that we are accused of imaginary "microagressions" if we fall even the tiniest bit short of rolling on our back and peeing on our belly in abject shame over our skin color. We are then accused of racism if we don't.

Meanwhile, blacks like those we see in this forum are free to spew their vicious racial hatred quite openly. They can act in the rudest ways imaginable, bully any white person they encounter and display behavior that would NEVER be allowed if it were the other way around.

The black posters here are not looking for discussion, only domination, and not seeking equality but superiority.

I, for one, am quite sick of the double standards.