THe hypocrites have taken over the Temple

[Bullypulpit]

<center><h2><a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/opinion/22lithwick.html?pagewanted=print&position=>Chipping Away at the Wall</a></h2></center>

<blockquote>By DAHLIA LITHWICK

Nearly 80 years ago in Dayton, Tenn., an epic trial pitted the literal truth of the Bible against modern science. And when the Scopes monkey trial concluded, the presiding judge closed the proceedings as he'd opened them each day - with a prayer.

In his wonderful book, "Summer for the Gods," Edward J. Larson paints a picture of America in the mid-1920's that's oddly familiar: torn between modernism and religious fundamentalism, Americans felt an old-time burning need for a burning bush. Horrified by the moral and cultural declines of the Jazz Age, they turned away from internationalism and intellectualism.

Welcome to 2004 and "Summer for the Gods Part 2: Revenge of the Public Officials." In a new wave of religious fervor, we resent that secular courts have chased God out of the public square. Again we want public institutions to carry water for our churches. And again, public officials happily flout the law to advance personal religious agendas.</blockquote>

What is even more pathetic is that Dubbyuh doesn't even attend church, except to provide a photo-op. Religion has become a tool of politics rather than a path leading to personal development and elightenment. The hypocrites have taken over the temple, who's going to drive them out this time?

 

[Annie]

Don't think you're correct on the church going thing. In July, trying to leave the drive of the Hay Adams Hotel, we had to wait about 2 minutes while George and Laura entered the small church across the street. No photographers and he apologized for holding up traffic. (As I said, was less than 2 minutes.) It was obvious that this was a routine on Sunday mornings.

 

[KarlMarx]

<center><h2><a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/opinion/22lithwick.html?pagewanted=print&position=>Chipping Away at the Wall</a></h2></center>

<blockquote>By DAHLIA LITHWICK

Nearly 80 years ago in Dayton, Tenn., an epic trial pitted the literal truth of the Bible against modern science. And when the Scopes monkey trial concluded, the presiding judge closed the proceedings as he'd opened them each day - with a prayer.

In his wonderful book, "Summer for the Gods," Edward J. Larson paints a picture of America in the mid-1920's that's oddly familiar: torn between modernism and religious fundamentalism, Americans felt an old-time burning need for a burning bush. Horrified by the moral and cultural declines of the Jazz Age, they turned away from internationalism and intellectualism.

Welcome to 2004 and "Summer for the Gods Part 2: Revenge of the Public Officials." In a new wave of religious fervor, we resent that secular courts have chased God out of the public square. Again we want public institutions to carry water for our churches. And again, public officials happily flout the law to advance personal religious agendas.</blockquote>

What is even more pathetic is that Dubbyuh doesn't even attend church, except to provide a photo-op. Religion has become a tool of politics rather than a path leading to personal development and elightenment. The hypocrites have taken over the temple, who's going to drive them out this time?

Well, if you consider secular humanism a religion, then it has become a tool of politics as well. Before you know it, instead of "In God We Trust", it will be "In Me (or Mao) I Trust".

Western Religion has not historically concerned itself with personal enlightenment, you have Moses and Jesus confused with Siddhartha (the Buddha) and Lao Tsu. Western religion has concerned itself with morality and with people's conduct. Our laws, are built upon the Mosaic Law (i.e. the Laws of Moses), not for our enlightenment but to save ourselves from each other (and ourselves).

I don't believe that we're in any danger of becoming a religious theocracy because of some unseen conspiracy by religious fundamentalists in the forseeable future. I believe that we are in danger of becoming an atheistic society at least as far as public policy is concerned. The ACLU, along with liberal judges in our court systems, have systematically managed to ban school prayer, get the Ten Commandments removed from public buildings, are attempting to get the two works "Under God" removed from the Pledge of Allegiance, forced the removal of creches from Christmas scenes, tried to get the words "In God We Trust" removed from our currency, banned prayers at commencement ceremonies, etc etc etc. They've have bullied small towns and villages into submission with the threat of costly litigation that those towns and villages cannot afford. If anyone is guilty of conspiring to reshape America into its image, it is the Left. The ACLU is so obsessed with the prohibition of "establishment of religion" clause in the First Amendment that they have totally ignored the rest of it, which says "nor any law that prohibits the free excercise thereof"... The ACLU and the liberal courts are definitely guilty of this.....AND of legislating from the bench.

All this because of the mistaken notion that the First Amendment is contains the idea of the separation between Church and State. That is nonsense, no such language exists in the Constitution. The Founding Fathers did not want religion taken out of public life, if they had, they would not have commenced each session of the 1st Constitutional Convention in 1787 with a prayer, nor would they have made references to God and a Creator in the Declaration of Independence. Rather, the Founding Fathers did not want another Church of England to exist in our country. If you didn't know, membership in the Church of England was compulsary, plus public funds were used for its support. THAT is what the Founding Fathers were against. Contrary to liberal belief, the Founding Fathers wore powdered wigs, not Mao suits! (P.S. I'm dating myself here, a "Mao Suit" is what Mao Tse Tung, the chairman of the Communist Chinese Party, regularly wore and was a popular article of clothing with 1960s radicals)

 

[8236]

What is even more pathetic is that Dubbyuh doesn't even attend church, except to provide a photo-op. Religion has become a tool of politics rather than a path leading to personal development and elightenment. The hypocrites have taken over the temple, who's going to drive them out this time?

Would anyone like to tell me of a time when that was not the case

 

[CSM]

And of course, no religion has EVER tried to influence the politics of any nation either.

 

[Comrade]

Would anyone like to tell me of a time when that was not the case

Asian democracies.

 

[8236]

And of course, no religion has EVER tried to influence the politics of any nation either.

Absolutely agree. Dead right! Proving the point that the world would be a MUCH better place with NO religion and more humanism or even better, MORE COMMON SENSE. If only religious people (and fundamentalists in particular) would open their eyes to reality and stop believing in silly fairy tales.

 

[8236]

Asian democracies.

Que??? Soz, missed that. In what way do you equate political systems with the concept of time?

 

[5stringJeff]

If only religious people (and fundamentalists in particular) would open their eyes to reality and stop believing in silly fairy tales.

Ahhh... I see, they're all fairy tales. Well thanks for clearing that up, all-knowing number guy.

 

[Comrade]

Que??? Soz, missed that. In what way do you equate political systems with the concept of time?

Someone said:
Religion has become a tool of politics.

You responded:
Would anyone like to tell me of a time when that was not the case


Asian Democracies, specifically Japan and Taiwan. Wallah.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Absolutely agree. Dead right! Proving the point that the world would be a MUCH better place with NO religion and more humanism or even better, MORE COMMON SENSE. If only religious people (and fundamentalists in particular) would open their eyes to reality and stop believing in silly fairy tales.

now THAT would be just plain ignorant. Without religion, or spirituality, you take away a large portion of what makes a person tick. Now, why can't people be reasonable and realize that religion always should be a personal and private issue?

 

[Bullypulpit]

now THAT would be just plain ignorant. Without religion, or spirituality, you take away a large portion of what makes a person tick. Now, why can't people be reasonable and realize that religion always should be a personal and private issue?

Because somebody HAS to be right.

 

[007]

Because somebody HAS to be right.

pulit... you're a "closet Christian". You're in here now "fishing" for answers. Repent your sins... be reborn in the name of Jesus Christ!!

 

[Bullypulpit]

pulit... you're a "closet Christian". You're in here now "fishing" for answers. Repent your sins... be reborn in the name of Jesus Christ!!

You funny! You make me laugh!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Because somebody HAS to be right.

And individuals are free to believe their guy is right. THEY are NOT free however to kill those who disagree. How many murders have been committed in the name of atheist communism around the world. 20 million, 30 million? That's the low side of my estimate.

 

[KarlMarx]

And individuals are free to believe their guy is right. THEY are NOT free however to kill those who disagree. How many murders have been committed in the name of atheist communism around the world. 20 million, 30 million? That's the low side of my estimate.

The estimates vary...

169 million according to one source
http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/com.art.htm

94 million according to another
http://www.usiap.org/Viewpoints/Global/NWO/ACenturyOfCommunism.html

At any rate, it seems like your estimate is far too generous!

 

[Bullypulpit]

And individuals are free to believe their guy is right. THEY are NOT free however to kill those who disagree. How many murders have been committed in the name of atheist communism around the world. 20 million, 30 million? That's the low side of my estimate.

And how many have been sacrificed upon the bloody altar of one religion or another throughout history?

 

[KarlMarx]

And how many have been sacrificed upon the bloody altar of one religion or another throughout history?

Ah, the ol' "religion has killed more people than ....." line....

Considering that atheistic communism has been in power in one country or another for less than 100 years while religions have been around for millenia upon millenia, the Communists have certainly made up for lost time (and moreso)!

If atheistic communism was around since the beginning of human civilization like religion has, there wouldn't be anyone left today to talk about it. They would have killed us all.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Ah, the ol' "religion has killed more people than ....." line....

Considering that atheistic communism has been in power in one country or another for less than 100 years while religions have been around for millenia upon millenia, the Communists have certainly made up for lost time (and moreso)!

If atheistic communism was around since the beginning of human civilization like religion has, there wouldn't be anyone left today to talk about it. They would have killed us all.

Atheism or theism has nothing to do with anything...Rather it is the value we place on this human life, in this world. Where human life is held cheaply, you have gemocide and its concomitant attrocities. Where human life is the yardstick by which our morals are measured, such attrocities do not occur.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Atheism or theism has nothing to do with anything...Rather it is the value we place on this human life, in this world. Where human life is held cheaply, you have gemocide and its concomitant attrocities. Where human life is the yardstick by which our morals are measured, such attrocities do not occur.

So please explain your stance on how fetuses are not living.