CDZ The Great Irony of 2016

[gipper]

OK, let's set aside the facts that Donald Trump can be an arrogant buffoon and Hillary Clinton couldn't pas a security check to become a parking lot attendant. (Those of you who can't are now excused.)

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest. Seniors who will be voting for Trump can expect no financial benefit from his policies; indeed, Hillary's spending spree will likely increase the interest paid on their retirement accounts, and inflation will increase the value of their homes.

On the other hand, younger voters who support Hillary will see fewer job opportunities if she is elected. In the long run, any relief from student loan debt will be eaten up by higher taxes and inflation, effectively writing them out of the American Dream that was available to previous generations.

The stakes couldn't be higher, and yet a large portion of our population will continue to sleepwalk towards their future.

The POTUS should not be about what Americans can get from government. Apparently some Americans think otherwise.

 

[eflatminor]

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest.

Many, not all.

 

[flacaltenn]

If folks don't support 3rd party alternatives THIS cycle -- they may not be around as choice or option when America finally feels the meltdown. Even a MODEST showing saves the LParty $$Mills in ballot access next cycle. Would get America thinking about revolting at the ballot box.

And with just 28 or so electoral votes -- I guarantee --- both parties will forget about pandering to every possible constituency and start ACTING like they stand for things.

 

[Picaro]

If folks don't support 3rd party alternatives THIS cycle -- they may not be around as choice or option when America finally feels the meltdown. Even a MODEST showing saves the LParty $$Mills in ballot access next cycle. Would get America thinking about revolting at the ballot box.

And with just 28 or so electoral votes -- I guarantee --- both parties will forget about pandering to every possible constituency and start ACTING like they stand for things.

There are only maybe 14 states where a third party stands even a remote chance of getting a single electoral vote, much less 28 of them. This is why electoral reform is the first step to getting proportional representation for all the budding 'third party' wannabees.

 

[Holos]

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest.

That's only because national electorate decisions are continued and developed upon politically inclusive national exchanges.

 

[Disir]

If folks don't support 3rd party alternatives THIS cycle -- they may not be around as choice or option when America finally feels the meltdown. Even a MODEST showing saves the LParty $$Mills in ballot access next cycle. Would get America thinking about revolting at the ballot box.

And with just 28 or so electoral votes -- I guarantee --- both parties will forget about pandering to every possible constituency and start ACTING like they stand for things.

I agree. I think eating $%@! this cycle sends a terrible message -she says although still not voting for the LParty. At this point, I just want to send 'em the bird.

 

[Disir]

OK, let's set aside the facts that Donald Trump can be an arrogant buffoon and Hillary Clinton couldn't pas a security check to become a parking lot attendant. (Those of you who can't are now excused.)

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest. Seniors who will be voting for Trump can expect no financial benefit from his policies; indeed, Hillary's spending spree will likely increase the interest paid on their retirement accounts, and inflation will increase the value of their homes.

On the other hand, younger voters who support Hillary will see fewer job opportunities if she is elected. In the long run, any relief from student loan debt will be eaten up by higher taxes and inflation, effectively writing them out of the American Dream that was available to previous generations.

The stakes couldn't be higher, and yet a large portion of our population will continue to sleepwalk towards their future.

Ya, but, a large group of people are only in it for entertainment. If it can't be shouted or dropped into a meme they have no interest whatsoever in it. Legislation? Screw that. Policy? Screw that. People that sit on the board of a media conglomerate also sit on the board of some (or several) other entity and the media represents those interests. And then there are all of the "alternative" news sources that receive funding from sweet little individuals. It forms their opinions. Until people focus on issues then it will continue on.

People had time to do that. If it hasn't changed by now then it probably won't.

When was the last time any Presidential candidate wrote an actual policy paper? I can't think of one who would even know how since Nixon, Right, Left, or 'Third'; it's all driven by commercials and sound bites, and now a Supreme Court that has assumed a concentration of power due to a Congress that refuses to do its job and ceding its powers to other branches, it renders even those popularity contests moot and irrelevant.

There is an entire generation that has no idea that once upon a time people had well thought out positions.

 

[jwoodie]

If folks don't support 3rd party alternatives THIS cycle -- they may not be around as choice or option when America finally feels the meltdown. Even a MODEST showing saves the LParty $$Mills in ballot access next cycle. Would get America thinking about revolting at the ballot box.

And with just 28 or so electoral votes -- I guarantee --- both parties will forget about pandering to every possible constituency and start ACTING like they stand for things.

There are only maybe 14 states where a third party stands even a remote chance of getting a single electoral vote, much less 28 of them. This is why electoral reform is the first step to getting proportional representation for all the budding 'third party' wannabees.

There are only two states where a presidential candidate can get a single electoral vote: Maine and Nebraska. All the others are winner-take-all, even if by only a plurality. All of this third party talk simply helps Hillary. The same attacks on Trump were used against Reagan in 1980 (remember John Anderson?) and Goldwater in 1964. Aren't we glad we elected LBJ to keep us out of the Viet Nam War? 50,000 of our soldiers killed, and what difference did it make?

 

[flacaltenn]

If folks don't support 3rd party alternatives THIS cycle -- they may not be around as choice or option when America finally feels the meltdown. Even a MODEST showing saves the LParty $$Mills in ballot access next cycle. Would get America thinking about revolting at the ballot box.

And with just 28 or so electoral votes -- I guarantee --- both parties will forget about pandering to every possible constituency and start ACTING like they stand for things.

There are only maybe 14 states where a third party stands even a remote chance of getting a single electoral vote, much less 28 of them. This is why electoral reform is the first step to getting proportional representation for all the budding 'third party' wannabees.

There are only two states where a presidential candidate can get a single electoral vote: Maine and Nebraska. All the others are winner-take-all, even if by only a plurality. All of this third party talk simply helps Hillary. The same attacks on Trump were used against Reagan in 1980 (remember John Anderson?) and Goldwater in 1964. Aren't we glad we elected LBJ to keep us out of the Viet Nam War? 50,000 of our soldiers killed, and what difference did it make?

Nope.. Doesn't just help Hillary. In fact, the first polls that INCLUDED Johnson/Weld, the margin came MORE out of her hide. And actually we agree with Bernie on about 50% of HIS gripes. Corporate/govt collusion, ME policy, patriot act, justice system reform, and more.

And it ain't a matter of helping Hillary. The candidates don't care WHY you voted for them. But they DO care why you voted AGAINST them. Reagan was a tested governor and NOT a huge risk. Goldwater got punked for stuff that should not have stuck. This is a National Crisis. America just doesn't know it yet. They haven't projected forward to see the astronomical INCREASE in venom and partisanship that electing EITHER candidate will cause.

Johnson/Weld is an opportunity for a "time out" and cooling off.. A 3rd voice in between the finger pointing. And maybe a chance to actually FIX some basic problems and policy issues. I think New Mex, Colorado, Montana, Maybe N.H. and Utah could ACTUALLY be e-vote wins for the LParty. And a couple of those apportioned votes. If the LP takes 28 e-votes, in a close race between clintrump, the winner has to get to 270 with a 29 e-vote lead over the other. It makes it harder..

 

[Holos]

This is a National Crisis. America just doesn't know it yet.

Assuming America can't be truly represented by a single citizen, as you yourself have expounded, how would America ever know that "This" is a National Crisis? Obviously it isn't, not for America.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a National Crisis. America just doesn't know it yet.

Assuming America can't be truly represented by a single citizen, as you yourself have expounded, how would America ever know that "This" is a National Crisis? Obviously it isn't, not for America.

Don't understand your question. Will the partisan bickering and playing off each others' abuses of power and the law INCREASE in the next admin --- or decrease? Do you expect MORE to actually get done? Or less?

Do you think the QUALITY of candidates has INCREASED or DECREASED in your lifetime?

Do you think the importance and influence of any SINGLE congress critter on the Hill has stayed the same or DRAMATICALLY decreased? Are you actually FOLLOWING the juvenile pranks and feuds that PASS for politics in this election cycle?

 

[flacaltenn]

All evidence points to 2 fractured tired parties that only care about winning and NOT LEADING or GOVERNING.
It adds up to an ACCELERATING leadership crisis in America and concentration of power into many fewer hands.

 

[Holos]

This is a National Crisis. America just doesn't know it yet.

Assuming America can't be truly represented by a single citizen, as you yourself have expounded, how would America ever know that "This" is a National Crisis? Obviously it isn't, not for America.

Don't understand your question. Will the partisan bickering and playing off each others' abuses of power and the law INCREASE in the next admin --- or decrease? Do you expect MORE to actually get done? Or less?

Do you think the QUALITY of candidates has INCREASED or DECREASED in your lifetime?

Do you think the importance and influence of any SINGLE congress critter on the Hill has stayed the same or DRAMATICALLY decreased? Are you actually FOLLOWING the juvenile pranks and feuds that PASS for politics in this election cycle?

Are you asking all that as you consider myself a singular citizen or as you consider myself to be America?

There is a vast difference, and I am quite able to efficiently extend or contain my own political self identifications.

 

[Holos]

All evidence points to 2 fractured tired parties that only care about winning and NOT LEADING or GOVERNING.
It adds up to an ACCELERATING leadership crisis in America and concentration of power into many fewer hands.

I will use your own words to respond to your claim.

Are you actually FOLLOWING the juvenile pranks and feuds that PASS for politics in this election cycle?

 

[flacaltenn]

All evidence points to 2 fractured tired parties that only care about winning and NOT LEADING or GOVERNING.
It adds up to an ACCELERATING leadership crisis in America and concentration of power into many fewer hands.

I will use your own words to respond to your claim.

Are you actually FOLLOWING the juvenile pranks and feuds that PASS for politics in this election cycle?

To quote the aims of the DNC --- this convo is exihibit ONE -- that we are NOT "all stronger together". Some of us don't even speak the language or consume the same intoxicants.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest.

The great irony is that people will even bother to be voting in another rigged election.

Odds Hillary Won Without Widespread Fraud: 1 in 77 Billion Says Berkeley, Stanford Studies - HNN - Higgins News Network

 

[Picaro]

The only reason lost the nomination in 2008 was she was out-cheated by the Obama Machine. They're only bound by their mutual need to avoid prosecutions for crimes at the moment, and she needs to win in order to appoint the next Attorney General and a raft of Federal Court justices in the Party's pockets. She nor her Party is concerned about anything else, otherwise such a sick, unhealthy woman wouldn't bother running. Same for the billionaires and faux 'Republicans' like Ryan and Bush lining up behind her over their own 'Party'.

At least the farce that there are two Parties is finally exposed, anyway; almost the entire Establishment has closed ranks against the American people, and had to do so openly for once. Trump shouldn't trust a single one of those who claim to be 'supporting' him, including Gingrich especially; they're there to sabotage him.

 

[jwoodie]

Trump is the only candidate who truly threatens the corrupt political establishment.

 

[the_human_being]

Trump is the only candidate who truly threatens the corrupt political establishment.

Indeed. Hillary IS the corrupt political establishment.

 

[Picaro]

OK, let's set aside the facts that Donald Trump can be an arrogant buffoon and Hillary Clinton couldn't pas a security check to become a parking lot attendant. (Those of you who can't are now excused.)

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest. Seniors who will be voting for Trump can expect no financial benefit from his policies; indeed, Hillary's spending spree will likely increase the interest paid on their retirement accounts, and inflation will increase the value of their homes.

On the other hand, younger voters who support Hillary will see fewer job opportunities if she is elected. In the long run, any relief from student loan debt will be eaten up by higher taxes and inflation, effectively writing them out of the American Dream that was available to previous generations.

The stakes couldn't be higher, and yet a large portion of our population will continue to sleepwalk towards their future.

I don't think it is ironic at all that most of us will hold our noses and vote for the less terrible candidate. That's not sleepwalking toward the future, that's doing what you can to avoid it's quick decline.

Voting for Gary Johnson or Jill whatshername or writing in a candidate or not voting at all, is sleepwalking. The reality is, that unless one of them drops dead, our next POTUS will be either Trump or Hillary. I'll vote Trump for the same reason I voted Romney and McCain.

That's exactly how we "got here". With 2 arrogant re-tred power whores as the primary choices. I'm watching DAILY as political discussion gets dragged lower and lower. And PRINCIPLES and ISSUES get buried.

Don't agree with the excuse of a "wasted vote". The MAJORITY OF eligible voters in this country are STILL pissed the day after an election. Either because they cast "a wasted vote" and lost -- or they REFUSE to vote, and in that process, reward EITHER partisan corporation for their tearing us apart and obfuscating incompetence and criminal actions by politicians.

Voting AGAINST evil and arrogance is the only cure. And right now, there is a qualified of 2 former 2 term govs to vote for on the LParty ticket. THEIR choices and actions would be MUCH MORE predictable and healthy for America. If your objection to SAVING this country from further decline is ----- "I just HATE THEIR candidate so much" --- you are hitting the accelerator -- instead of the brake.

I hear you, and there are others who agree with you. There are not enough of them though. lf I believed the L party candidate could win I would cast my vote. As I said, I don't believe we have a choice other than DT or HC in this election. I understand the no choosing evil argument. The thing is, I don't think not voting the lesser evil is the answer when the greater evil is thus put in charge.

Ultimately, I believe that Donald Trump has helped the GOP. Establishment R's and rinos have ignored voters wishes and now we have this wild man candidate basically because the old crowd of R's have screwed us one time too many. Next time around, hopefully a conservative will step up. I believe that because of the decline in morality and honesty, voters will again say, enough.

Sometimes it's NOT about winning. It's about principle. By winning some electoral votes, and getting percentages that qualify for "free pass" ballot access -- those votes PRESERVE the option of having choices on the ballot.

If no one WANTS other choices on the ballot and we CONTINUE this spiral down the tubes, we are doomed.

You WASTE your vote when you REWARD the political circus that has rolled into town..

I am very afraid of what will happen to this country if Hillary wins. Therefore, my principles compel me to use my vote to try and stop her.

It's all about judicial appointments for me; Trump is an uncertainty, but Hillary is a certain disaster and will appointment some extremely vile racists, corrupt sociopaths, and American hating vermin, guaranteed.