CDZ The Great Irony of 2016

[flacaltenn]

OK, let's set aside the facts that Donald Trump can be an arrogant buffoon and Hillary Clinton couldn't pas a security check to become a parking lot attendant. (Those of you who can't are now excused.)

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest. Seniors who will be voting for Trump can expect no financial benefit from his policies; indeed, Hillary's spending spree will likely increase the interest paid on their retirement accounts, and inflation will increase the value of their homes.

On the other hand, younger voters who support Hillary will see fewer job opportunities if she is elected. In the long run, any relief from student loan debt will be eaten up by higher taxes and inflation, effectively writing them out of the American Dream that was available to previous generations.

The stakes couldn't be higher, and yet a large portion of our population will continue to sleepwalk towards their future.

I don't think it is ironic at all that most of us will hold our noses and vote for the less terrible candidate. That's not sleepwalking toward the future, that's doing what you can to avoid it's quick decline.

Voting for Gary Johnson or Jill whatshername or writing in a candidate or not voting at all, is sleepwalking. The reality is, that unless one of them drops dead, our next POTUS will be either Trump or Hillary. I'll vote Trump for the same reason I voted Romney and McCain.

If you truly don't care whether Trump or Hillary wins, there is no problem with voting 3rd party.

I still have my favorite "greater evil"... And I'll never tell. But I sure ain't stupid enough to vote for the OTHER "greater evil".. If EITHER of them wins -- America loses..

 

[oldsoul]

I, too, am very afraid of what would come if Hilary wins. However, I am nearly equally afraid of what comes if Donald wins.

What, specifically, are you afraid of?

How's this for starters: If congress won't act to end this plague of gun violence, I will. (Paraphrasing Hillary) Hillary Clinton on Twitter
What, exactly, does she plan to do?
Then there is the e-mail scandal. Even IF she did nothing illegal, she obviously has no respect for the sensitivity of the information she was privy to. One might expect that a person in such a position as SOS would regard EVERYTHING as classified unless KNOWN to be other.
Benghazi also comes to mind. Is this how we can expect her to handle situations in the future?
I could go on, but am short on time at the moment.

 

[jwoodie]

OK, let's set aside the facts that Donald Trump can be an arrogant buffoon and Hillary Clinton couldn't pas a security check to become a parking lot attendant. (Those of you who can't are now excused.)

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest. Seniors who will be voting for Trump can expect no financial benefit from his policies; indeed, Hillary's spending spree will likely increase the interest paid on their retirement accounts, and inflation will increase the value of their homes.

On the other hand, younger voters who support Hillary will see fewer job opportunities if she is elected. In the long run, any relief from student loan debt will be eaten up by higher taxes and inflation, effectively writing them out of the American Dream that was available to previous generations.

The stakes couldn't be higher, and yet a large portion of our population will continue to sleepwalk towards their future.

I don't think it is ironic at all that most of us will hold our noses and vote for the less terrible candidate. That's not sleepwalking toward the future, that's doing what you can to avoid it's quick decline.

Voting for Gary Johnson or Jill whatshername or writing in a candidate or not voting at all, is sleepwalking. The reality is, that unless one of them drops dead, our next POTUS will be either Trump or Hillary. I'll vote Trump for the same reason I voted Romney and McCain.

If you truly don't care whether Trump or Hillary wins, there is no problem with voting 3rd party.

I still have my favorite "greater evil"... And I'll never tell. But I sure ain't stupid enough to vote for the OTHER "greater evil".. If EITHER of them wins -- America loses..

If you want to actually CHANGE the disastrous direction this country is headed, there is only ONE candidate who could make this happen - DONALD TRUMP. Any third party candidate would have NO support in Congress, even regarding SCOTUS appointments, so what is the point of helping Hillary become the most corrupt President in U.S. history? Four or eight years from now, it won't matter. Our electoral process will have been subverted by an ultra-partisan "Justice" Department which will guarantee the results of future elections, so any dreams of a viable Libertarian Party are just that - dreams.

At least with a President Trump, libertarians would have some voice in policy decisions. Does anyone believe that authoritarian "progressives" have anything but contempt for Constitutional principles? They view libertarians as nothing more than crackpot dupes who can be bought off by legalizing marijuana. After the Olympics, it will be time for America to wake up and decide its future. We have seen a glimpse of that for the past eight years under Obama's thumb and, under Hillary, it's going to get much worse. Do we want to give our country a chance to break the big business/big government/special interest cartel, or do we want to surrender to it?

THE CHOICE IS OURS. WE CAN EITHER VOTE FOR TRUMP OR FORFEIT OUR COUNTRY TO THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY IT.

 

[Disir]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that Republicans will support Trump in congress?

 

[flacaltenn]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that Republicans will support Trump in congress?

After all this "Conservative saviour" that Jwoodie intends to ride to the bottom, just blurted out that the US should take on MUCH MORE DEBT.. Oh whoa is us if there are no REAL Conservatives to stop him.

Give Johnson/Weld your vote and ALL the new appointments will CEASE to be political patronage jobs. You will have an Independent Counsel in the A.G. office for all cases. You will have Sup Ct assignments based SOLELY on strict interpretation of the Constitution. A LOT less risky than 4 years of Trump.. .

 

[GaryDog]

OK, let's set aside the facts that Donald Trump can be an arrogant buffoon and Hillary Clinton couldn't pas a security check to become a parking lot attendant. (Those of you who can't are now excused.)

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest. Seniors who will be voting for Trump can expect no financial benefit from his policies; indeed, Hillary's spending spree will likely increase the interest paid on their retirement accounts, and inflation will increase the value of their homes.

On the other hand, younger voters who support Hillary will see fewer job opportunities if she is elected. In the long run, any relief from student loan debt will be eaten up by higher taxes and inflation, effectively writing them out of the American Dream that was available to previous generations.

The stakes couldn't be higher, and yet a large portion of our population will continue to sleepwalk towards their future.

I don't think it is ironic at all that most of us will hold our noses and vote for the less terrible candidate. That's not sleepwalking toward the future, that's doing what you can to avoid it's quick decline.

Voting for Gary Johnson or Jill whatshername or writing in a candidate or not voting at all, is sleepwalking. The reality is, that unless one of them drops dead, our next POTUS will be either Trump or Hillary. I'll vote Trump for the same reason I voted Romney and McCain.

If you truly don't care whether Trump or Hillary wins, there is no problem with voting 3rd party.

I still have my favorite "greater evil"... And I'll never tell. But I sure ain't stupid enough to vote for the OTHER "greater evil".. If EITHER of them wins -- America loses..

If you want to actually CHANGE the disastrous direction this country is headed, there is only ONE candidate who could make this happen - DONALD TRUMP. Any third party candidate would have NO support in Congress, even regarding SCOTUS appointments, so what is the point of helping Hillary become the most corrupt President in U.S. history? Four or eight years from now, it won't matter. Our electoral process will have been subverted by an ultra-partisan "Justice" Department which will guarantee the results of future elections, so any dreams of a viable Libertarian Party are just that - dreams.

At least with a President Trump, libertarians would have some voice in policy decisions. Does anyone believe that authoritarian "progressives" have anything but contempt for Constitutional principles? They view libertarians as nothing more than crackpot dupes who can be bought off by legalizing marijuana. After the Olympics, it will be time for America to wake up and decide its future. We have seen a glimpse of that for the past eight years under Obama's thumb and, under Hillary, it's going to get much worse. Do we want to give our country a chance to break the big business/big government/special interest cartel, or do we want to surrender to it?

THE CHOICE IS OURS. WE CAN EITHER VOTE FOR TRUMP OR FORFEIT OUR COUNTRY TO THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY IT.

We have a Republican House, Republican Senate, and up til recently Republican-appointed justices on the Supreme Court outnumbered Democrat-appointed justices. We have a majority of statehouses dominated by Republicans. We have 30 Republican governors.

If our country is headed in a disastrous direction, the Republicans certainly have a major hand in the authorship of its demise.

 

[GaryDog]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that Republicans will support Trump in congress?

After all this "Conservative saviour" that Jwoodie intends to ride to the bottom, just blurted out that the US should take on MUCH MORE DEBT.. Oh whoa is us if there are no REAL Conservatives to stop him.

Give Johnson/Weld your vote and ALL the new appointments will CEASE to be political patronage jobs. You will have an Independent Counsel in the A.G. office for all cases. You will have Sup Ct assignments based SOLELY on strict interpretation of the Constitution. A LOT less risky than 4 years of Trump.. .

Show me a strict interpretator of the Constitution and I show you a unicorn.

They. Do. Not. Exist. Never have.

 

[flacaltenn]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that Republicans will support Trump in congress?

After all this "Conservative saviour" that Jwoodie intends to ride to the bottom, just blurted out that the US should take on MUCH MORE DEBT.. Oh whoa is us if there are no REAL Conservatives to stop him.

Give Johnson/Weld your vote and ALL the new appointments will CEASE to be political patronage jobs. You will have an Independent Counsel in the A.G. office for all cases. You will have Sup Ct assignments based SOLELY on strict interpretation of the Constitution. A LOT less risky than 4 years of Trump.. .

Show me a strict interpretator of the Constitution and I show you a unicorn.

They. Do. Not. Exist. Never have.

Of course it exists. It's an interpretation based on LITERAL meaning and contemporary evidence from the Founders. And it WAS very much like Antony Scalia.

 

[flacaltenn]

OK, let's set aside the facts that Donald Trump can be an arrogant buffoon and Hillary Clinton couldn't pas a security check to become a parking lot attendant. (Those of you who can't are now excused.)

The great irony of this year's elections is that many people of all political persuasions will be voting against their own self interest. Seniors who will be voting for Trump can expect no financial benefit from his policies; indeed, Hillary's spending spree will likely increase the interest paid on their retirement accounts, and inflation will increase the value of their homes.

On the other hand, younger voters who support Hillary will see fewer job opportunities if she is elected. In the long run, any relief from student loan debt will be eaten up by higher taxes and inflation, effectively writing them out of the American Dream that was available to previous generations.

The stakes couldn't be higher, and yet a large portion of our population will continue to sleepwalk towards their future.

I don't think it is ironic at all that most of us will hold our noses and vote for the less terrible candidate. That's not sleepwalking toward the future, that's doing what you can to avoid it's quick decline.

Voting for Gary Johnson or Jill whatshername or writing in a candidate or not voting at all, is sleepwalking. The reality is, that unless one of them drops dead, our next POTUS will be either Trump or Hillary. I'll vote Trump for the same reason I voted Romney and McCain.

If you truly don't care whether Trump or Hillary wins, there is no problem with voting 3rd party.

I still have my favorite "greater evil"... And I'll never tell. But I sure ain't stupid enough to vote for the OTHER "greater evil".. If EITHER of them wins -- America loses..

If you want to actually CHANGE the disastrous direction this country is headed, there is only ONE candidate who could make this happen - DONALD TRUMP. Any third party candidate would have NO support in Congress, even regarding SCOTUS appointments, so what is the point of helping Hillary become the most corrupt President in U.S. history? Four or eight years from now, it won't matter. Our electoral process will have been subverted by an ultra-partisan "Justice" Department which will guarantee the results of future elections, so any dreams of a viable Libertarian Party are just that - dreams.

At least with a President Trump, libertarians would have some voice in policy decisions. Does anyone believe that authoritarian "progressives" have anything but contempt for Constitutional principles? They view libertarians as nothing more than crackpot dupes who can be bought off by legalizing marijuana. After the Olympics, it will be time for America to wake up and decide its future. We have seen a glimpse of that for the past eight years under Obama's thumb and, under Hillary, it's going to get much worse. Do we want to give our country a chance to break the big business/big government/special interest cartel, or do we want to surrender to it?

THE CHOICE IS OURS. WE CAN EITHER VOTE FOR TRUMP OR FORFEIT OUR COUNTRY TO THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY IT.

We have a Republican House, Republican Senate, and up til recently Republican-appointed justices on the Supreme Court outnumbered Democrat-appointed justices. We have a majority of statehouses dominated by Republicans. We have 30 Republican governors.

If our country is headed in a disastrous direction, the Republicans certainly have a major hand in the authorship of its demise.

And no matter how much hate and fury accompany SupCt assignments, the evidence is NOT clear that partisan bickering AFFECTS the rulings on the bench all that much. Look at any NUMBER of those "Rep" appts and how different their votes are on critical issues from the GOP playbook.

You need people that RESPECT the Constitution and err on the side of it. NOT help Congress and lower courts INVENT concepts out the blue,..

 

[GaryDog]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that Republicans will support Trump in congress?

After all this "Conservative saviour" that Jwoodie intends to ride to the bottom, just blurted out that the US should take on MUCH MORE DEBT.. Oh whoa is us if there are no REAL Conservatives to stop him.

Give Johnson/Weld your vote and ALL the new appointments will CEASE to be political patronage jobs. You will have an Independent Counsel in the A.G. office for all cases. You will have Sup Ct assignments based SOLELY on strict interpretation of the Constitution. A LOT less risky than 4 years of Trump.. .

Show me a strict interpretator of the Constitution and I show you a unicorn.

They. Do. Not. Exist. Never have.

Of course it exists. It's an interpretation based on LITERAL meaning and contemporary evidence from the Founders. And it WAS very much like Antony Scalia.

No, it wasn't. At all. Scalia frequently departed from the plain language of the Constitution to make a decision he thought was correct. In fact, he was one of the worst at it. His "originalism" is a fanciful myth.

One easy-to-understand example is this "states' right" that he plucked from thin air:

Supreme Court Curtails Citizen Suits Against States The Justices Ruled, 5-4, That States May Not Be Taken To Court Against Their Will Over Violations Of Federal Law.

Essentially, Scalia just didn't like the reading in of rights for women and gays.

 

[GaryDog]

I don't think it is ironic at all that most of us will hold our noses and vote for the less terrible candidate. That's not sleepwalking toward the future, that's doing what you can to avoid it's quick decline.

Voting for Gary Johnson or Jill whatshername or writing in a candidate or not voting at all, is sleepwalking. The reality is, that unless one of them drops dead, our next POTUS will be either Trump or Hillary. I'll vote Trump for the same reason I voted Romney and McCain.

If you truly don't care whether Trump or Hillary wins, there is no problem with voting 3rd party.

I still have my favorite "greater evil"... And I'll never tell. But I sure ain't stupid enough to vote for the OTHER "greater evil".. If EITHER of them wins -- America loses..

If you want to actually CHANGE the disastrous direction this country is headed, there is only ONE candidate who could make this happen - DONALD TRUMP. Any third party candidate would have NO support in Congress, even regarding SCOTUS appointments, so what is the point of helping Hillary become the most corrupt President in U.S. history? Four or eight years from now, it won't matter. Our electoral process will have been subverted by an ultra-partisan "Justice" Department which will guarantee the results of future elections, so any dreams of a viable Libertarian Party are just that - dreams.

At least with a President Trump, libertarians would have some voice in policy decisions. Does anyone believe that authoritarian "progressives" have anything but contempt for Constitutional principles? They view libertarians as nothing more than crackpot dupes who can be bought off by legalizing marijuana. After the Olympics, it will be time for America to wake up and decide its future. We have seen a glimpse of that for the past eight years under Obama's thumb and, under Hillary, it's going to get much worse. Do we want to give our country a chance to break the big business/big government/special interest cartel, or do we want to surrender to it?

THE CHOICE IS OURS. WE CAN EITHER VOTE FOR TRUMP OR FORFEIT OUR COUNTRY TO THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY IT.

We have a Republican House, Republican Senate, and up til recently Republican-appointed justices on the Supreme Court outnumbered Democrat-appointed justices. We have a majority of statehouses dominated by Republicans. We have 30 Republican governors.

If our country is headed in a disastrous direction, the Republicans certainly have a major hand in the authorship of its demise.

And no matter how much hate and fury accompany SupCt assignments, the evidence is NOT clear that partisan bickering AFFECTS the rulings on the bench all that much. Look at any NUMBER of those "Rep" appts and how different their votes are on critical issues from the GOP playbook.

You need people that RESPECT the Constitution and err on the side of it. NOT help Congress and lower courts INVENT concepts out the blue,..

So RESPECTING the constitution involves keeping things in tune with the GOP Playbook? LMAO, whatever, dude.

The original intent and contemporaneous meanings as seen from the point of view of the framers would have women not voting, blacks enslaved and counting for 3/5ths of a person. Don't overestimate the worth of the original intent of the Constitution. It wasn't handed to us on a plate by Jesus.

 

[flacaltenn]

If you truly don't care whether Trump or Hillary wins, there is no problem with voting 3rd party.

I still have my favorite "greater evil"... And I'll never tell. But I sure ain't stupid enough to vote for the OTHER "greater evil".. If EITHER of them wins -- America loses..

If you want to actually CHANGE the disastrous direction this country is headed, there is only ONE candidate who could make this happen - DONALD TRUMP. Any third party candidate would have NO support in Congress, even regarding SCOTUS appointments, so what is the point of helping Hillary become the most corrupt President in U.S. history? Four or eight years from now, it won't matter. Our electoral process will have been subverted by an ultra-partisan "Justice" Department which will guarantee the results of future elections, so any dreams of a viable Libertarian Party are just that - dreams.

At least with a President Trump, libertarians would have some voice in policy decisions. Does anyone believe that authoritarian "progressives" have anything but contempt for Constitutional principles? They view libertarians as nothing more than crackpot dupes who can be bought off by legalizing marijuana. After the Olympics, it will be time for America to wake up and decide its future. We have seen a glimpse of that for the past eight years under Obama's thumb and, under Hillary, it's going to get much worse. Do we want to give our country a chance to break the big business/big government/special interest cartel, or do we want to surrender to it?

THE CHOICE IS OURS. WE CAN EITHER VOTE FOR TRUMP OR FORFEIT OUR COUNTRY TO THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY IT.

We have a Republican House, Republican Senate, and up til recently Republican-appointed justices on the Supreme Court outnumbered Democrat-appointed justices. We have a majority of statehouses dominated by Republicans. We have 30 Republican governors.

If our country is headed in a disastrous direction, the Republicans certainly have a major hand in the authorship of its demise.

And no matter how much hate and fury accompany SupCt assignments, the evidence is NOT clear that partisan bickering AFFECTS the rulings on the bench all that much. Look at any NUMBER of those "Rep" appts and how different their votes are on critical issues from the GOP playbook.

You need people that RESPECT the Constitution and err on the side of it. NOT help Congress and lower courts INVENT concepts out the blue,..

So RESPECTING the constitution involves keeping things in tune with the GOP Playbook? LMAO, whatever, dude.

The original intent and contemporaneous meanings as seen from the point of view of the framers would have women not voting, blacks enslaved and counting for 3/5ths of a person. Don't overestimate the worth of the original intent of the Constitution. It wasn't handed to us on a plate by Jesus.

Slow down Bullwinkle. I was talking about GOP standards -- not MY standards or LParty standards.

Most of your rant has been since corrected --- hasn't it dog?

 

[GaryDog]

I still have my favorite "greater evil"... And I'll never tell. But I sure ain't stupid enough to vote for the OTHER "greater evil".. If EITHER of them wins -- America loses..

If you want to actually CHANGE the disastrous direction this country is headed, there is only ONE candidate who could make this happen - DONALD TRUMP. Any third party candidate would have NO support in Congress, even regarding SCOTUS appointments, so what is the point of helping Hillary become the most corrupt President in U.S. history? Four or eight years from now, it won't matter. Our electoral process will have been subverted by an ultra-partisan "Justice" Department which will guarantee the results of future elections, so any dreams of a viable Libertarian Party are just that - dreams.

At least with a President Trump, libertarians would have some voice in policy decisions. Does anyone believe that authoritarian "progressives" have anything but contempt for Constitutional principles? They view libertarians as nothing more than crackpot dupes who can be bought off by legalizing marijuana. After the Olympics, it will be time for America to wake up and decide its future. We have seen a glimpse of that for the past eight years under Obama's thumb and, under Hillary, it's going to get much worse. Do we want to give our country a chance to break the big business/big government/special interest cartel, or do we want to surrender to it?

THE CHOICE IS OURS. WE CAN EITHER VOTE FOR TRUMP OR FORFEIT OUR COUNTRY TO THOSE WHO WOULD DESTROY IT.

We have a Republican House, Republican Senate, and up til recently Republican-appointed justices on the Supreme Court outnumbered Democrat-appointed justices. We have a majority of statehouses dominated by Republicans. We have 30 Republican governors.

If our country is headed in a disastrous direction, the Republicans certainly have a major hand in the authorship of its demise.

And no matter how much hate and fury accompany SupCt assignments, the evidence is NOT clear that partisan bickering AFFECTS the rulings on the bench all that much. Look at any NUMBER of those "Rep" appts and how different their votes are on critical issues from the GOP playbook.

You need people that RESPECT the Constitution and err on the side of it. NOT help Congress and lower courts INVENT concepts out the blue,..

So RESPECTING the constitution involves keeping things in tune with the GOP Playbook? LMAO, whatever, dude.

The original intent and contemporaneous meanings as seen from the point of view of the framers would have women not voting, blacks enslaved and counting for 3/5ths of a person. Don't overestimate the worth of the original intent of the Constitution. It wasn't handed to us on a plate by Jesus.

Slow down Bullwinkle. I was talking about GOP standards -- not MY standards or LParty standards.

Most of your rant has been since corrected --- hasn't it dog?

Not really. Your position with regard to constitutional interpretation is still rife with odious, racist and ridiculous fallacies. Of course it's a Living document, and every scotus, ever, agrees with me on that. Like a Gary Johnson presidency, true originalism is fantasy.

 

[jwoodie]

We have a Republican House, Republican Senate, and up til recently Republican-appointed justices on the Supreme Court outnumbered Democrat-appointed justices. We have a majority of statehouses dominated by Republicans. We have 30 Republican governors.

If our country is headed in a disastrous direction, the Republicans certainly have a major hand in the authorship of its demise.

As usual, you conflate form and substance while adding a good measure of irrelevance. Just what "direction" have all these Republicans led the country? Citizens United? Do you even know what that case was actually about? (The State of Michigan tried to limit corporate political donations while specifically exempting labor unions from the same restrictions.)

On the other hand, the damage done to our country under by Obama Administration (Obamacare, exploding national debt, Iran Nuclear Deal, ransom for hostages, Iraq/ISIS, etc.) is hardly worth repeating anymore. And the best you can do is to try to blame Republicans for not doing more to stop this acknowledged demise?