Zone1 The Great Difficulty Of Being Religious.....

[Trickster]

In your story, was Eve tolerant of any/all disobedience in her family? No reason for children to be obedient?

Eve was an independent being. The Great Leader (like all dictators) has just manipulated them into thinking they were children. Fighting oppression is a good form of "disobedience".

"Obedience" motivared by threats and fear is child abuse.

 

[Donald H]

Then what is he even good for?

If the reference to drowning every living thing on the planet is just allegory then there could be some good in the lesson learned from an allegorical threat?

If it's intended to be literally true then there can be no good in Christianity.

They have an escape clause built into the bibles since the 50's (or 96) and they will be buying it soon.

The more honest amongst them already have, but they still would rather not discuss it.

 

[Woodznutz]

I did not ask what he is not. Why do you religious people always define God by telling what he isn't instead of what he is? Don't you know how definitions work?

I thought it was a perfect response to your question.

 

[Woodznutz]

If it's intended to be literally true then there can be no good in Christianity.

So, we shouldn't kill those diseased chickens?

 

[Woodznutz]

Eve was an independent being. The Great Leader (like all dictators) has just manipulated them into thinking they were children. Fighting oppression is a good form of "disobedience".

"Obedience" motivared by threats and fear is child abuse.

There you go, hissing again.

 

[Meriweather]

Eve was an independent being. The Great Leader (like all dictators) has just manipulated them into thinking they were children. Fighting oppression is a good form of "disobedience".

"Obedience" motivared by threats and fear is child abuse.

Is it your stance that children should not be taught obedience, and they should be allowed to do whatever they want?

 

[Trickster]

Is it your stance that children should not be taught obedience, and they should be allowed to do whatever they want?

"Obedience" in the theological sense would be serious child abuse.

 

[Woodznutz]

"Obedience" in the theological sense would be serious child abuse.

So, Christian parents should leave their children with a babysitter while they attend church? Even small children listen to the sermons (some are actually convicted by what they hear). Should they be kept out of the sanctuary during the sermons? Or should they be able to make up their own minds about religion?

Repentant, baptized, consecrated adults are in obedience (assent) to God's will. Children are only sanctified by their Christian parents. Parents are or should be in the place of God to their children. God has so ordained.

 

[Donald H]

"Obedience" in the theological sense would be serious child abuse.

It can be suggested to children in a discreet way and away from the priests that to believe the bibles are literally true, should be though of as being lies equivalent to Santa.

Then soon after the child can be told that the bibles are intended to be read as allegorical lessons. Not to be postponed later than 12 years of age.

We can find common ground with Christians, as I did with Meriweather and Ding. Verbal abuse just causes them to dig in their heels.

They really do want that common ground! Wouldn't you if you had Adam and Eve hanging around your neck like an Albatross?

 

[Trickster]

So, Christian parents should leave their children with a babysitter while they attend church? Even small children listen to the sermons. Should they be kept out of the sanctuary during the sermons? Or should they be able to make up their own minds about religion?

This is a very interesting question I need to think more about -- Is raising your child to be religious child abuse?

It is a tough question. You religionists are very quick to call rainbow patterned cloths in school "brainwashing", so I would at least use that term. It definitely is brainwashing.

 

[Meriweather]

"Obedience" in the theological sense would be serious child abuse.

How does obedience differ in the "theological sense"? For example, what if your twelve year old son has the sexual urge to diddle his four-year-old brother? Since obedience isn't a part of your family structure, it's none of your business, correct?

 

[Trickster]

It can be suggested to children in a discreet way and away from the priests that to believe the bibles are literally true, should be though of as being lies equivalent to Santa.

Then soon after the child can be told that the bibles are intended to be read as allegorical lessons. Not to be postponed later than 12 years of age.

We can find common ground with Christians, as I did with Meriweather and Ding. Verbal abuse just causes them to dig in their heels.

They really do want that common ground! Wouldn't you if you had Adam and Eve hanging around your neck like an Albatross?

"Bow down to daddy now! Now or else I will punish you! Remember that you were born filthy, you rat - bow to me! If you dare question me I will throw you into that oven and it will burn! Hey! Stop thinking, I will strike you. Obey me!"

If tharbis the idea of "obedience" here it definitely is a crime.

 

[Woodznutz]

This is a very interesting question I need to think more about -- Is raising your child to be religious child abuse?

It is a tough question. You religionists are very quick to call rainbow patterned cloths in school "brainwashing", so I would at least use that term. It definitely is brainwashing.

Rainbow patterns is an attempt to normalize the abnormal.

Religious training is brainwashing, in a good way.

 

[Donald H]

How does obedience differ in the "theological sense"? For example, what if your twelve year old son has the sexual urge to diddle his four-year-old brother? Since obedience isn't a part of your family structure, it's none of your business, correct?

That doesn't happen in Christian families because of a lack of obedience.
It would be more likely to happen in families in which the child lacks trust with an untruthful adult or an inconsistent adult.

I know a man who was an altar boy in a Catholic church. Life didn't work out very well for him.

He trusted.

 

[Trickster]

How does obedience differ in the "theological sense"? For example, what if your twelve year old son has the sexual urge to diddle his four-year-old brother? Since obedience isn't a part of your family structure, it's none of your business, correct?

The idea of "obedience" in relation to God is blind submission motivated by threats and fear. I am sure we both agree threats of violence and fear-mongering are not proper methods of child raring.

If a 12 year old wants to "diddle" his younger sibling, obedience is definitely not the issue. It is probably something more serious that requires professional help.

Generally speaking, "obeduence" is a word with awful conntations to me. In relation to parenting it reminds me of the style from the previous ce tury. But, it could be used in a more colloquial way too like in "Zoe is being disobedient when she jumps on the bed at bedtime" and in that sense, "obedience" is what parenting is about. I guess.

 

[Donald H]

So, we shouldn't kill those diseased chickens?

Meriweather and Ding made the cut on being amenable to logical truths being possible reform of their beliefs.

You don't make the cut. You own the literally true bibles for this board.

 

[Trickster]

Rainbow patterns is an attempt to normalize the abnormal.

So are crucifixes and Bibles. Resurrections and God are more abnormal than homosexuality. At least homosexuality is real.

Religious training is brainwashing, in a good way.

Didn't think you would admit it that easily.

 

[Donald H]

The idea of "obedience" in relation to God is blind submission motivated by threats and fear. I am sure we both agree threats of violence and fear-mongering are not proper methods of child raring.

If a 12 year old wants to "diddle" his younger sibling, obedience is definitely not the issue. It is probably something more serious that requires professional help.

Generally speaking, "obeduence" is a word with awful conntations to me. In relation to parenting it reminds me of the style from the previous ce tury. But, it could be used in a more colloquial way too like in "Zoe is being disobedient when she jumps on the bed at bedtime" and in that sense, "obedience" is what parenting is about. I guess.

I think we can pin the blame on 'lack of trust' of the parent, in general terms.

The bibles contain dozens of hazards for children that are still learning to trust adults.

 

[Meriweather]

The idea of "obedience" in relation to God is blind submission motivated by threats and fear. I am sure we both agree threats of violence and fear-mongering are not proper methods of child raring.

If a 12 year old wants to "diddle" his younger sibling, obedience is definitely not the issue. It is probably something more serious that requires professional help.

Generally speaking, "obeduence" is a word with awful conntations to me. In relation to parenting it reminds me of the style from the previous ce tury. But, it could be used in a more colloquial way too like in "Zoe is being disobedient when she jumps on the bed at bedtime" and in that sense, "obedience" is what parenting is about. I guess.

Is it blind submission to obey and respect parents? To not steal, or lie? Precisely, what do you consider blind obedience? What is the violence you are speaking of?

 

[Trickster]

Is it blind submission to obey and respect parents? To tell the truth, to not steal, or lie? Precisely, what do you consider blind obedience? What is the violence you are speaking of?

Because God demands you to not just accept him in blind faith, but also to submit to him. Follow his rules without questioning anything because questioning will have horrible consequences. If you do not obey, God will punish you.