The Gnostic Christians were right. Do you recognize that you live in heaven?

[GreatestIam]

Read up on the beliefs and practices of the Cathars and the Free Spirits.

Are those the same peace-loving Cathars that Christianity used their Inquisitions on?

Do you really want to remind Christians of their glorious murderous past?



Regards
DL

Yep. The same peace loving ones burning Catholic Churches.

You had your chance to chow you were not lying.

Goodbye a hole.

Regards
DL

 

[DOTR]

The gnostics were the aggressors. If they didn't want none there wouldn't have been none.

Im not sure there were ever very many gnostics. But before they died out yes their one goal was to defeat Christianity. Some religions are like that. They werent numerous but they were like new agers today...trendy among a certain disaffected class.
But Gnosticism today exists only in internet chat rooms as a springboard for attacking Christianity. Like paganism.

Years ago I was traveling in Florida and on Sunday morning I bought a paper in Orlando for the religion section to find a church we could go to that morning. There were all kinds of listings...episcopal, catholic, baptist etc...with times and addresses and invitations. There was one ad under "Pagan/new age/gnostic"...and it gave a web site address. LOL

 

[ding]

Read up on the beliefs and practices of the Cathars and the Free Spirits.

Are those the same peace-loving Cathars that Christianity used their Inquisitions on?

Do you really want to remind Christians of their glorious murderous past?



Regards
DL

Yep. The same peace loving ones burning Catholic Churches.

You had your chance to chow you were not lying.

Goodbye a hole.

Regards
DL

Patience. It is coming.

 

[ding]

The gnostics were the aggressors. If they didn't want none there wouldn't have been none.

Im not sure there were ever very many gnostics. But before they died out yes their one goal was to defeat Christianity. Some religions are like that. They werent numerous but they were like new agers today...trendy among a certain disaffected class.
But Gnosticism today exists only in internet chat rooms as a springboard for attacking Christianity. Like paganism.

Years ago I was traveling in Florida and on Sunday morning I bought a paper in Orlando for the religion section to find a church we could go to that morning. There were all kinds of listings...episcopal, catholic, baptist etc...with times and addresses and invitations. There was one ad under "Pagan/new age/gnostic"...and it gave a web site address. LOL

I believe this clown is more akin to a secular humanist. He's not the only one masquerading on these boards.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Wow, you are all over the map. First it is atheism, then Luciferianism, now Gnosticism?

Get back to us when you are done.

It should be more about you then convincing others to do what you are doing.

Not enough intelligence in your little mind to speak to the issues I see.

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

Your ad homs reveal you to be a small mind. Ding stands a shining light above your chasm of darkness. Why do gnostics embrace the darkness so willingly?

 

[TNHarley]

The gnostics were the aggressors. If they didn't want none there wouldn't have been none.

Im not sure there were ever very many gnostics. But before they died out yes their one goal was to defeat Christianity. Some religions are like that. They werent numerous but they were like new agers today...trendy among a certain disaffected class.
But Gnosticism today exists only in internet chat rooms as a springboard for attacking Christianity. Like paganism.

Years ago I was traveling in Florida and on Sunday morning I bought a paper in Orlando for the religion section to find a church we could go to that morning. There were all kinds of listings...episcopal, catholic, baptist etc...with times and addresses and invitations. There was one ad under "Pagan/new age/gnostic"...and it gave a web site address. LOL

IIRC, gnostics flourished in the ME in the first and second century. Which was a couple hundred years before christian orthodoxy even existed.
Wasnt the gnostics one of the reasons for the first council of nicaea? Christianity was VERY diverse before then, and they hated that.

 

[DOTR]

The gnostics were the aggressors. If they didn't want none there wouldn't have been none.

Im not sure there were ever very many gnostics. But before they died out yes their one goal was to defeat Christianity. Some religions are like that. They werent numerous but they were like new agers today...trendy among a certain disaffected class.
But Gnosticism today exists only in internet chat rooms as a springboard for attacking Christianity. Like paganism.

Years ago I was traveling in Florida and on Sunday morning I bought a paper in Orlando for the religion section to find a church we could go to that morning. There were all kinds of listings...episcopal, catholic, baptist etc...with times and addresses and invitations. There was one ad under "Pagan/new age/gnostic"...and it gave a web site address. LOL

I believe this clown is more akin to a secular humanist. He's not the only one masquerading on these boards.

This clown has a beef with Christianity...as Jesus predicted. The vehicle for the beef is a pretend religion.

 

[DOTR]

IIRC, gnostics flourished in the ME in the first and second century. Which was a couple hundred years before christian orthodoxy even existed.
Wasnt the gnostics one of the reasons for the first council of nicaea? Christianity was VERY diverse before then, and they hated that.

No it wasnt. Christianity was always unified. Gnostics opposed Christianity but that doesn't make Christianity diverse.
And no they had nothing to do with Nicaea. Gnostics weren't Christians so why would Christians call a council over them? Next they will call a council to explain Hinduism?
Nicea was in response to the Arian controversy.

 

[harmonica]

how do we know jesus said that for sure?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Gnosticism was not Christianity. The gnostics opposed Christianity. The only shared prayer was Our Father.

 

[TNHarley]

IIRC, gnostics flourished in the ME in the first and second century. Which was a couple hundred years before christian orthodoxy even existed.
Wasnt the gnostics one of the reasons for the first council of nicaea? Christianity was VERY diverse before then, and they hated that.

No it wasnt. Christianity was always unified. Gnostics opposed Christianity but that doesn't make Christianity diverse.
And no they had nothing to do with Nicaea. Gnostics weren't Christians so why would Christians call a council over them? Next they will call a council to explain Hinduism?
Nicea was in response to the Arian controversy.

 

[MisterBeale]

The gnostics were the aggressors. If they didn't want none there wouldn't have been none.

Im not sure there were ever very many gnostics. But before they died out yes their one goal was to defeat Christianity. Some religions are like that. They werent numerous but they were like new agers today...trendy among a certain disaffected class.
But Gnosticism today exists only in internet chat rooms as a springboard for attacking Christianity. Like paganism.

Years ago I was traveling in Florida and on Sunday morning I bought a paper in Orlando for the religion section to find a church we could go to that morning. There were all kinds of listings...episcopal, catholic, baptist etc...with times and addresses and invitations. There was one ad under "Pagan/new age/gnostic"...and it gave a web site address. LOL

IIRC, gnostics flourished in the ME in the first and second century. Which was a couple hundred years before christian orthodoxy even existed.
Wasnt the gnostics one of the reasons for the first council of nicaea? Christianity was VERY diverse before then, and they hated that.

Spot on. That is one of the reasons why Constantine called for the council, mostly it was about the philosophical split between the Arius and the rest of the presbyters.

Though the philosophy of the Gnostics was a very poor philosophy for ruling over an Empire, and the books that they were for having included in canon were not under consideration by the elite elders, bishops, etc., so their presence was not represented.

Most of the Christians on this forum have not taken any classes at a secular University on the New Testament, nor done any scholarly, unbiased research on their own religion. They not only do not have an understanding of the collective soul's reality, they don't really have an interest in gaining that knowledge either.

Divinity is a precious thing to the ego's perception of reality.


OTH, just because a person can grasp that truth and knowledge might be knowable, does not necessarily mean that the divine can not still be ascertained, it only means that the traditional culture that one was raised in no longer has a monopoly on that divinity. Most folks think theirs is the only way, the only truth, the only light. I have no doubt that even denial of grace could probably lead to grace, who am I to say?

There is so little humility in the religious and spiritual sub-forum, personally, I find it appalling.

On the path to ascension, one of the first truths, is that the creator does not make mistakes. Obviously it is a childlike to think that there is one and only one pathway to wisdom.


Everyone is probably correct about GreatestIAm though. He pushes the "one way" model, just so they can push back equally voraciously with their own, "one way," the culture they were born to. He is a troll meant to sow division and discord, create controversy and hatred, and make folks question their beliefs in any spiritual or traditional level of grace.

He is mostly best ignored. His message is a different one every six months.

 

[GreatestIam]

how do we know jesus said that for sure?

He likely did not as he likely did not exist.



What is being shown, basically, is a religion that seeks knowledge and wisdom via meditation using the Jesus good man archetype as a mantra to deepen the meditative trance available through meditation.

Some chant oohhhmm, or focus on a word while when Christianity consolidated many of the older traditions in the bible, they chose the good man theme which they had plagiarized from the Christens, whom I think were the original group that then had to change their name to Gnostic Christian as well as others. That is why we, like the other Christian sects, ended with many sects.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Note the inner meditation theme and single eye mentioned is the same think as the third or inner eye.

Regards
DL

 

[JakeStarkey]

Having listened carefully to Allan Watts, I can advise others if they want an exhilaratingly silly experience. please do so.

 

[GreatestIam]

The gnostics were the aggressors. If they didn't want none there wouldn't have been none.

Im not sure there were ever very many gnostics. But before they died out yes their one goal was to defeat Christianity. Some religions are like that. They werent numerous but they were like new agers today...trendy among a certain disaffected class.
But Gnosticism today exists only in internet chat rooms as a springboard for attacking Christianity. Like paganism.

Years ago I was traveling in Florida and on Sunday morning I bought a paper in Orlando for the religion section to find a church we could go to that morning. There were all kinds of listings...episcopal, catholic, baptist etc...with times and addresses and invitations. There was one ad under "Pagan/new age/gnostic"...and it gave a web site address. LOL

IIRC, gnostics flourished in the ME in the first and second century. Which was a couple hundred years before christian orthodoxy even existed.
Wasnt the gnostics one of the reasons for the first council of nicaea? Christianity was VERY diverse before then, and they hated that.

Spot on. That is one of the reasons why Constantine called for the council, mostly it was about the philosophical split between the Arius and the rest of the presbyters.

Though the philosophy of the Gnostics was a very poor philosophy for ruling over an Empire, and the books that they were for having included in canon were not under consideration by the elite elders, bishops, etc., so their presence was not represented.

Most of the Christians on this forum have not taken any classes at a secular University on the New Testament, nor done any scholarly, unbiased research on their own religion. They not only do not have an understanding of the collective soul's reality, they don't really have an interest in gaining that knowledge either.

Divinity is a precious thing to the ego's perception of reality.


OTH, just because a person can grasp that truth and knowledge might be knowable, does not necessarily mean that the divine can not still be ascertained, it only means that the traditional culture that one was raised in no longer has a monopoly on that divinity. Most folks think theirs is the only way, the only truth, the only light. I have no doubt that even denial of grace could probably lead to grace, who am I to say?

There is so little humility in the religious and spiritual sub-forum, personally, I find it appalling.

On the path to ascension, one of the first truths, is that the creator does not make mistakes. Obviously it is a childlike to think that there is one and only one pathway to wisdom.


Everyone is probably correct about GreatestIAm though. He pushes the "one way" model, just so they can push back equally voraciously with their own, "one way," the culture they were born to. He is a troll meant to sow division and discord, create controversy and hatred, and make folks question their beliefs in any spiritual or traditional level of grace.

He is mostly best ignored. His message is a different one every six months.

You are correct in that I wish to create discord between Christians and their vile genocidal son murdering God.

If you do not think that rejecting that satanic God, then you show how corrupted your morals are.



Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.


Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.


Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.


https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk


Humanity centered religions, good? Yes.


Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes.


Do you agree?


Regards

DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Having listened carefully to Allan Watts, I can advise others if they want an exhilaratingly silly experience. please do so.

So keep your head up your God's ass then and ignore all that those biblical quotes tell you to do.

Regards
DL

 

[JakeStarkey]

Good luck with it, Allan, and I will leave you to it.

 

[ding]

The gnostics were the aggressors. If they didn't want none there wouldn't have been none.

Im not sure there were ever very many gnostics. But before they died out yes their one goal was to defeat Christianity. Some religions are like that. They werent numerous but they were like new agers today...trendy among a certain disaffected class.
But Gnosticism today exists only in internet chat rooms as a springboard for attacking Christianity. Like paganism.

Years ago I was traveling in Florida and on Sunday morning I bought a paper in Orlando for the religion section to find a church we could go to that morning. There were all kinds of listings...episcopal, catholic, baptist etc...with times and addresses and invitations. There was one ad under "Pagan/new age/gnostic"...and it gave a web site address. LOL

IIRC, gnostics flourished in the ME in the first and second century. Which was a couple hundred years before christian orthodoxy even existed.
Wasnt the gnostics one of the reasons for the first council of nicaea? Christianity was VERY diverse before then, and they hated that.

"...Shafarevich points out with great precision both the cause and the genesis of the first socialist doctrines, which he characterizes as reactions: Plato as a reaction to Greek culture, and the Gnostics as a reaction to Christianity. They sought to counteract the endeavor of the human spirit to stand erect, and strove to return to the earthbound existence of the primitive states of antiquity. The author also convincingly demonstrates the diametrical opposition between the concepts of man held by religion and by socialism. Socialism seeks to reduce human personality to its most primitive levels and to extinguish the highest, most complex, and "God-like" aspects of human individuality. And even equality itself, that powerful appeal and great promise of socialists throughout the ages, turns out to signify not equality of rights, of opportunities, and of external conditions, but equality quaidentity, equality seen as the movement of variety toward uniformity..."

"...Beginning with the Middle Ages and the Reformation, doctrines of chiliastic socialism in Western Europe appeared under religious guise. As varied as they were, all these doctrines had in common a characteristic trait--the rejection of numerous aspects of the teachings of the Catholic Church and a fierce hatred for the Church itself..."

"...The movement of the Cathars (Greek for "the pure") spread in Western and Central Europe in the eleventh century. It seems to have originated in the East, arriving from Bulgaria, the home of Bogomil heresy in the preceding century. The ultimate origins of both, however, are more ancient...."

"...The so-called dualistic Cathars believed this to be caused by the existence of two Gods--one good, the other evil. It was the God of evil who had created the physical world--the earth with everything that grows upon it, the sky, the sun and the stars, and human bodies as well. The good God, on the other hand, was seen as the creator of the spiritual world, in which there is another, spiritual sky, other stars and another sun. Other Cathars, called monarchian Cathars, believed in one beneficent God, the creator of the universe, but assumed that the physical world was the creation of his eldest, fallen son--Satan or Lucifer. All the Cathars held that the mutual hostility of the realms of matter and spirit allowed for no intermingling. They therefore denied the bodily incarnation of Christ (asserting that his body was a spiritual one, which had only the appearance of physicality) and the resurrection of the flesh. They saw a reflection of their dualism in the division of the Holy Scriptures into Old and New Testaments. They identified the God of the Old Testament, the creator of the physical world, with the evil God or with Lucifer. They professed the New Testament as the teaching of the good God.

"...The Cathars did not believe that God had created the world from nothing; they held that matter was eternal and that the world would have no end. So far as people were concerned, they considered their bodies to be the creation of the evil force. Their souls, though, did not have a single source. The souls of the majority of men, just like their bodies, were begotten by evil--such people had no hope for salvation and were doomed to perish when the entire material world returned to a state of primeval chaos...."

"In compensation for the rigors imposed on the perfecti, their position was far higher than that occupied by Catholic priests. In certain respects, the perfecti were as gods themselves, and the faithful worshiped them accordingly. The faithful were obliged to support the perfecti. One of the important rites of the sect was that of "submission," in which the faithful performed a threefold prostration before the perfecti. The perfecti had to renounce marriage, and they literally did not have the right to touch a woman. They could not possess any property and were obliged to devote their whole lives to service of the sect. They were forbidden to keep a permanent dwelling of any kind and were required to spend their lives in constant travel or to stay in special secret sanctuaries. The consecration of the perfecti, the "consolation" (consolamentum), was the central sacrament of the sect. This rite cannot be compared to anything in the Catholic Church. It combined baptism (or confirmation), ordination, confession, absolution and sometimes supreme unction as well. Only those who received it could count on being freed from the captivity of the body and having their souls returned to their celestial abode.

The majority of the Cathars had no hope of fulfilling the strict commandments that were obligatory for the perfecti and intended, rather, to receive "consolation" on their deathbed. This was called "the good end." The prayer to grant "the good end" under the care of "the good people" (the perfecti) was recited together with the Lord's Prayer.

Sometimes, having received "consolation," a sick person recovered. He was then usually advised to commit suicide (called "endura"). In many cases, "endura" was in fact a condition for receiving "consolation." Not infrequently, the aged or the very young who had received "consolation" were subjected to "endura"--i.e., in effect, murdered. There were various forms of "endura." Most frequently it was by starvation (especially for children, whom the mothers simply stopped suckling); bleeding, hot baths followed by sudden chilling, drinking of liquid mixed with ground glass and strangulation were also used. I. Dollinger, who studied the extant archives of the Inquisition in Toulouse and Carcassonne, writes: "Whoever examines the records of the above-mentioned courts attentively will have no doubt that far more people perished from the 'endura' (some voluntarily, some forcibly) than as a result of the Inquisition's verdicts." (10: p. 226)

These basic notions were the source of the socialist doctrines disseminated among the Cathars. They rejected property as belonging to the material world. The perfecti were forbidden to have any personal belongings, but as a group they controlled the holdings of the sect, which often were considerable."

The Socialist Phenomenon by Igor Shafarevich