The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[Listening]

It's tough to spend your time dealing with people who really think they are god.

Democracy allows anyone to be elected. Not everyone votes their best interests because we all don't all have the same interests...imagine that.

We did elect FDR, after all. And if ever there was an enemy to the country it was FDR.

But he moved on, and the country still remains. Obama will move on the and U.S.A. will still be here....I hope

Bush is actually a much better example.

Jesus H. Christ! Is that all you people have? Divert and blame Bush? The subject is Obamacare. Next you'll be telling us Bush snuck back in and sabotaged that.

Well, not Bush...but the whole "gee the GOP just wansn't helpful (and that is the reason this is a mess)" narrative has started.

Bush was a mess. I agree with that.

Obama is turning out to be eight more years of the same...only worse.

 

[PMZ]

Bush is actually a much better example.

Jesus H. Christ! Is that all you people have? Divert and blame Bush? The subject is Obamacare. Next you'll be telling us Bush snuck back in and sabotaged that.

Well, not Bush...but the whole "gee the GOP just wansn't helpful (and that is the reason this is a mess)" narrative has started.

Bush was a mess. I agree with that.

Obama is turning out to be eight more years of the same...only worse.

A pretty Uninformed opinion. What the Republicans are really good at is 24/7/365 propaganda through Fox Opinions. Very effective thought management. The world as Republicans wish it was with only the news good for the GOP thrown in for credibility.

 

[PMZ]

I think that there are general interests and special interests. The difference being majority vs minority. Democracy keeps us focused on general interests. Or, the middle of the road.

I believe that that's where truth resides.

Are you saying that Democracy cannot avoid electing someone who wishes to destroy the country?
Do you think that an issue is the responsibility of the government as the result of being a popular general interest?
Do you think that truth is determined by the number of people that agree with it?

.

There are risks in every means of organization. With democracy, the risk is that a massive wave of ignorance could overcome society and a nefarious power could gain control until the next election. Even worse are cases like pre WWII Germany where Hitler was elected, made himself permanent, and it took the world to get him out.

But, the only alternative to majority rule is minority rule, but the risk of tyranny goes up, not down.

It's been said that the most effective government is a benevolent dictator a la the Catholic Church. Effective, but very, very risky as benevolence is merely a special interest.

 

[BlackSand]

Jesus H. Christ! Is that all you people have? Divert and blame Bush? The subject is Obamacare. Next you'll be telling us Bush snuck back in and sabotaged that.

Excellent Point Blood ... But I think it is a little optimistic to expect anyone to support the ACA for more than a few posts of hysterical blabbering about poor sick people who cannot sign up anyway.

If you go back and look ... I think the posters ditched the ACA and switched over to accusation of members following Third Reich somewhere around page 81.
There is only pond scum like myself around here now ... Walking through the battlefield tending to the folks that are already mortally wounded.

Every day the news about the ACA gets worse ... Every day the President and fellow Democrats try to salvage something that remotely attempts looks like they have some integrity ... To no avail.
I am beginning to think that the President's choice not to negotiate with the House over delaying implementation of the Individual Mandate ... Just so he could try and look tough before it all blew up in his face ... Will haunt the Democrats in the near future.
But that is also optimistic seeing as the Progressive Liberals have a substantial amount of Berserker Warriors willing to fight for the idea of fighting ... And don't much care what the facts are.

Occasionally a passer by adds some worthwhile contributions to the debate or at least brings coffee ... Homemade Chicken Enchiladas for dinner tonight ... Hope you have a glorious day!

.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Jesus H. Christ! Is that all you people have? Divert and blame Bush? The subject is Obamacare. Next you'll be telling us Bush snuck back in and sabotaged that.

Well, not Bush...but the whole "gee the GOP just wansn't helpful (and that is the reason this is a mess)" narrative has started.

Bush was a mess. I agree with that.

Obama is turning out to be eight more years of the same...only worse.

A pretty Uninformed opinion. What the Republicans are really good at is 24/7/365 propaganda through Fox Opinions. Very effective thought management. The world as Republicans wish it was with only the news good for the GOP thrown in for credibility.

Uninformed opinion? Try being less partisan and man/woman up and admit that the OP is spot on. If Obamacare were a republican enterprise, I'd be calling for heads to roll. But since it's a democrat failure, I'm being called a racist for criticizing.

 

[BlackSand]

There are risks in every means of organization. With democracy, the risk is that a massive wave of ignorance could overcome society and a nefarious power could gain control until the next election. Even worse in cases like pre WWII Germany where Hitler was elected, made himself permanent, and it took the world to get him out.

But, the only alternative to majority rule is minority rule, but the risk of tyranny goes up, not down.

It's been said that the most effective government is a benevolent dictator a la the Catholic Church. Effective, but very, very risky as benevolence is merely a special interest.

If by that you mean Democracy cannot prevent someone who wishes to destroy the country from getting elected ... Especially as a matter of ignorance and lack of foresight ... Then I would have to agree with you there.

We have an excellent example of just such a scenario in the White House right now ... Not to suggest that the current President would be the only applicable answer.
That is also why the Founding Fathers established a Representative Republic over a straight Democracy ... And warned of the dangers of Majority Rule even in that case.
You can refer to the way they set forth systems that require a super majority over a simple 51-49 split ... But that is still hard to manage when the population is split along those lines.

Again ...

Do you think that an issue is the responsibility of the government as the result of being a popular general interest?
Do you think that truth is determined by the number of people that agree with it?

Additional Questions:

Do you think that this section of the USMB forums is intended to be an exercise in debate?
Do you think that continuing to spout rhetoric with no forthright attempts to engage in debate over topics you have already mentioned ... Or the stalwart desire to answer clarification questions ... Is consistent with a productive debate platform?

.

 

[BlackSand]

Uninformed opinion? Try being less partisan and man/woman up and admit that the OP is spot on. If Obamacare were a republican enterprise, I'd be calling for heads to roll. But since it's a democrat failure, I'm being called a racist for criticizing.

Do you mean it actually bothers you that the Democrat/Progressive Liberal playbook only has 4 or 5 pages ... They have to keep it simple ... I mean look at who they are dealing with in voters?
They will do whatever keeps them in power ... They will promise whatever will get them votes, even if they are not equipped to provide what has been promised.
When you expose them for the louts they are .. Then you can only expect them to blame someone else and throw the race card if possible ... It has been that way for decades.

.

 

[PMZ]

Well, not Bush...but the whole "gee the GOP just wansn't helpful (and that is the reason this is a mess)" narrative has started.

Bush was a mess. I agree with that.

Obama is turning out to be eight more years of the same...only worse.

A pretty Uninformed opinion. What the Republicans are really good at is 24/7/365 propaganda through Fox Opinions. Very effective thought management. The world as Republicans wish it was with only the news good for the GOP thrown in for credibility.

Uninformed opinion? Try being less partisan and man/woman up and admit that the OP is spot on. If Obamacare were a republican enterprise, I'd be calling for heads to roll. But since it's a democrat failure, I'm being called a racist for criticizing.

How am I partisan and you not?

 

[Meister]

Uninformed opinion? Try being less partisan and man/woman up and admit that the OP is spot on. If Obamacare were a republican enterprise, I'd be calling for heads to roll. But since it's a democrat failure, I'm being called a racist for criticizing.

Do you mean it actually bothers you that the Democrat/Progressive Liberal playbook only has 4 or 5 pages ... They have to keep it simple ... I mean look at who they are dealing with in voters?
They will do whatever keeps them in power ... They will promise whatever will get them votes, even if they are not equipped to provide what has been promised.
When you expose them for the louts they are .. Then you can only expect them to blame someone else and throw the race card if possible ... It has been that way for decades.

.

Without reading all of PMZ's drivel, you mean he's brought out the race card now?
You know when they have nothing for you is when they do that, right?

 

[PMZ]

There are risks in every means of organization. With democracy, the risk is that a massive wave of ignorance could overcome society and a nefarious power could gain control until the next election. Even worse in cases like pre WWII Germany where Hitler was elected, made himself permanent, and it took the world to get him out.

But, the only alternative to majority rule is minority rule, but the risk of tyranny goes up, not down.

It's been said that the most effective government is a benevolent dictator a la the Catholic Church. Effective, but very, very risky as benevolence is merely a special interest.

If by that you mean Democracy cannot prevent someone who wishes to destroy the country from getting elected ... Especially as a matter of ignorance and lack of foresight ... Then I would have to agree with you there.

We have an excellent example of just such a scenario in the White House right now ... Not to suggest that the current President would be the only applicable answer.
That is also why the Founding Fathers established a Representative Republic over a straight Democracy ... And warned of the dangers of Majority Rule even in that case.
You can refer to the way they set forth systems that require a super majority over a simple 51-49 split ... But that is still hard to manage when the population is split along those lines.

Again ...

Do you think that an issue is the responsibility of the government as the result of being a popular general interest?
Do you think that truth is determined by the number of people that agree with it?

Additional Questions:

Do you think that this section of the USMB forums is intended to be an exercise in debate?
Do you think that continuing to spout rhetoric with no forthright attempts to engage in debate over topics you have already mentioned ... Or the stalwart desire to answer clarification questions ... Is consistent with a productive debate platform?

.

Your strategy seems to be typical conservative. Whine about all things not authorized by the GOP, and try to control the conversation with irrelevant questions. When those questions get answered, ask more. And never, never, ever, propose solutions.

It gets old real quick.

 

[PMZ]

A quick review of the Republican plan for America.

AGW.... Do nothing
Sustainable energy..... Do nothing.
Poverty....... Do nothing
Health care..... Do nothing
Jobs.... Do nothing.
Education...... Do nothing
Middle East peace.... Do nothing.
Immigration..... Do nothing.
National debt.... Do nothing
Regulation... Do nothing

There you have it. The Republican Dream for America.

Nothing

 

[BlackSand]

Your strategy seems to be typical conservative. Whine about all things not authorized by the GOP, and try to control the conversation with irrelevant questions. When those questions get answered, ask more. And never, never, ever, propose solutions.

It gets old real quick.

How is you repeating your irrelevant rhetoric an example of me trying to control the conversations?

There is no way I can possibly propose a solution to anything you suggest ... If you don't not make a single statement that is anything other than unsupported rhetoric.

Do you honestly think you are fooling anyone?
Why can't you answer simple questions?

Again ...

Do you think that an issue is the responsibility of the government as the result of being a popular general interest?
Do you think that truth is determined by the number of people that agree with it?
Do you think that this section of the USMB forums is intended to be an exercise in debate?
Do you think that continuing to spout rhetoric with no forthright attempts to engage in debate over topics you have already mentioned ... Or the stalwart desire to answer clarification questions ... Is consistent with a productive debate platform?

.

 

[Meister]

A quick review of the Republican plan for America.

AGW.... Do nothing
Sustainable energy..... Do nothing.
Poverty....... Do nothing
Health care..... Do nothing
Jobs.... Do nothing.
Education...... Do nothing
Middle East peace.... Do nothing.
Immigration..... Do nothing.
National debt.... Do nothing
Regulation... Do nothing

There you have it. The Republican Dream for America.

Nothing

Wow....drink some more of that Kool-Aid, son.

 

[Bloodrock44]

A pretty Uninformed opinion. What the Republicans are really good at is 24/7/365 propaganda through Fox Opinions. Very effective thought management. The world as Republicans wish it was with only the news good for the GOP thrown in for credibility.

Uninformed opinion? Try being less partisan and man/woman up and admit that the OP is spot on. If Obamacare were a republican enterprise, I'd be calling for heads to roll. But since it's a democrat failure, I'm being called a racist for criticizing.

How am I partisan and you not?

Because I would be man enough to give the dems credit if they actually did something useful. You? Meh.

 

[Listening]

A quick review of the Republican plan for America.

AGW.... Do nothing
Sustainable energy..... Do nothing.
Poverty....... Do nothing
Health care..... Do nothing
Jobs.... Do nothing.
Education...... Do nothing
Middle East peace.... Do nothing.
Immigration..... Do nothing.
National debt.... Do nothing
Regulation... Do nothing

There you have it. The Republican Dream for America.

Nothing

In my state, our employment is great (and has been even through the Obamaconomy).

All due to GOP policies and action.

Your assertion => Failure.

Oh, and national debt...do nothing ? Compared to keep running it up like our current Affirmative Action Doofus for a president.

 

[Listening]

A quick review of the Republican plan for America.

AGW.... Do nothing
Sustainable energy..... Do nothing.
Poverty....... Do nothing
Health care..... Do nothing
Jobs.... Do nothing.
Education...... Do nothing
Middle East peace.... Do nothing.
Immigration..... Do nothing.
National debt.... Do nothing
Regulation... Do nothing

There you have it. The Republican Dream for America.

Nothing

Wow....drink some more of that Kool-Aid, son.

He seems to take it in by the gallon....

 

[PMZ]

Uninformed opinion? Try being less partisan and man/woman up and admit that the OP is spot on. If Obamacare were a republican enterprise, I'd be calling for heads to roll. But since it's a democrat failure, I'm being called a racist for criticizing.

How am I partisan and you not?

Because I would be man enough to give the dems credit if they actually did something useful. You? Meh.

Another memory impaired codger to whom, 2007-2009 never existed.

 

[PMZ]

A quick review of the Republican plan for America.

AGW.... Do nothing
Sustainable energy..... Do nothing.
Poverty....... Do nothing
Health care..... Do nothing
Jobs.... Do nothing.
Education...... Do nothing
Middle East peace.... Do nothing.
Immigration..... Do nothing.
National debt.... Do nothing
Regulation... Do nothing

There you have it. The Republican Dream for America.

Nothing

In my state, our employment is great (and has been even through the Obamaconomy).

All due to GOP policies and action.

Your assertion => Failure.

Oh, and national debt...do nothing ? Compared to keep running it up like our current Affirmative Action Doofus for a president.

Now that he has ended the Bush policies that created 100% of the debt, the deficit is falling like a rock. When the current cadre of conservative business followers get fired for, guess what, doing nothing, and get replaced by liberal business leaders, and business starts growing and hiring, then we'll be fully recovered from the valley of Bush and be back to Clinton days.

And the Republican whiners, led by Fox Opinions, will howl that they want 2008, back.

 

[PMZ]

Your strategy seems to be typical conservative. Whine about all things not authorized by the GOP, and try to control the conversation with irrelevant questions. When those questions get answered, ask more. And never, never, ever, propose solutions.

It gets old real quick.

How is you repeating your irrelevant rhetoric an example of me trying to control the conversations?

There is no way I can possibly propose a solution to anything you suggest ... If you don't not make a single statement that is anything other than unsupported rhetoric.

Do you honestly think you are fooling anyone?
Why can't you answer simple questions?

Again ...

Do you think that an issue is the responsibility of the government as the result of being a popular general interest?
Do you think that truth is determined by the number of people that agree with it?
Do you think that this section of the USMB forums is intended to be an exercise in debate?
Do you think that continuing to spout rhetoric with no forthright attempts to engage in debate over topics you have already mentioned ... Or the stalwart desire to answer clarification questions ... Is consistent with a productive debate platform?

.

Why can't you propose any solutions?

 

[BlackSand]

Without reading all of PMZ's drivel, you mean he's brought out the race card now?
You know when they have nothing for you is when they do that, right?

I cannot accuse PMZ in particular of bringing out the race card ... Because he/she hasn't used it with me yet.
I have however seen the Progressive Liberals throw the card on just about any issue that could be misconstrued as having any implications remotely associated with race.

The only wise move that PMZ has made thus far ... Is not resorting to a last ditch effort by flinging the obviously self-defeating race card.
Then again ... Some people may argue that PMZ should have thrown the card about 3 days ago here ... And left this battlefield for another.

Some people desire to wallow in their ignorance I would guess ... It is still a guess since PMZ won't even answer simple questions that actually identify what he/she believes.

.