The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[emilynghiem]

News flash, insurance plans have always and will always cover services that not everyone needs. Until the day comes out where there is a a-la-carte insurance plan, this is a ridiculous and invalid talking point.

Like I said, no freedoms were lost.

OMG RDD are you SERIOUS?

And where is my choice to pay for all my health care myself without going through insurance which isn't the same as paying for health care.

Do you understand this choice is now penalized?

A.
I think you are assuming that everyone needs to be under insurance anyway as the only choice, is this where we are branching off on two different pages?

Once you assume "everyone needs to be on insurance" then you don't see any choices missing.

Is this what's happening?

B. Do you really have no concept that a group of doctors and charity nurses can invest directly in setting up clinics or teaching hospitals for serving people for free or low cost WITHOUT insurance. But just exchange medical education/training for services to the public, and have investors, donors and clients pay for it similar to university funding.

Do you realize this is not a legal choice under ACA but would be penalized?

Do you really believe there is "no other way on earth" to pay for health care except go through insurance? What did we do before there was insurance?

This is like saying there is no source of money but the Federal Reserve.
but there are legal forms of independent currency and barter that people can use, that are NOT banned. These exchanges are taxed like other federal money.

1. why do you think all other forms of paying for health care should be disqualified
EXCEPT insurance
2. why do you think this should be done through federal govt
instead of letting each state or community decide

are you really so dependent on insurance or federal govt you think those are your only choices?

do you really have no concept that other people live without depending on insurance or federal govt but pay for their own expenses themselves? I know people who do. why should those people be forced to pay for a system they don't need and penalized for wanting to invest in health programs that can cost less and serve more people?

 

[emilynghiem]

Medicare took more than 2 years to get it working. The rw's will whine but ObamaCare will make it. Apparently, there are thousands signing up in the state programs and that will grow.

You have never answered the question why can't this be supported by the peopel who believe in it.

Luddly spiritual healing works, costs less and cures causes of disease where insurance does not, but spiritual healing is not forced by govt.

Would you approve mandating spiritual healing by govt before proving it works where people chose it freely?

Also, once you put all this programming in the hands of federal govt,
Luddly how can you be sure all the govt officials deciding the policies will be prochoice?

Isn't the only way to assure a program will be prochoice is to make sure prochoice people run it, like Planned Parenthood. So why not set up this to be run by proACA. simple right?

why not let prolife people run and fund their own prolife hospitals and clinics
and keep the policies separate so no more fighting over it. why not Luddly
isnt that the epitome of prochoice?

 

[Seawytch]

Come on [MENTION=41423]NoTeaPartyPleez[/MENTION] - tell me your all of your medical bills combined for you entire life have even come close to $500,000. Please? I would kill to hear that lie! We could spend decades laughing at you over that bullshit. Come on kitty-kitty-kitty... tell us the lie kitty!

Among families who were bankrupted by illness, those with private insurance reported average medical bills of $17,749 compared to those who were uninsured, who faced an average of $26,971 in medical costs. Those who had health insurance but lost it in the course of their illness reported average medical bills of $22,568.

The average medical bill - for the uninsured - is $26,971. Less than the price of a car!!! I love humiliating idiots like [MENTION=23461]RDD_1210[/MENTION]. Sorry drama queen, $500,000 is more unrealistic than a unicorn!

And a payment plant would easily cover that cost. Just admit you're a fuck'n parsite looking for your fellow citizen to pay your way through life.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/medical-bills-cause-most-bankruptcies/

Cancer will take you to 500K in no time.

High cost of care becomes cancer's growing burden ? USATODAY.com

Correct. I have a close family member who fought Leukemia and the bill was over 480k for the treatments. That person is in remission right now.

That's good news! Glad to hear your friend is doing well.

 

[Seawytch]

Come on [MENTION=41423]NoTeaPartyPleez[/MENTION] - tell me your all of your medical bills combined for you entire life have even come close to $500,000. Please? I would kill to hear that lie! We could spend decades laughing at you over that bullshit. Come on kitty-kitty-kitty... tell us the lie kitty!

Among families who were bankrupted by illness, those with private insurance reported average medical bills of $17,749 compared to those who were uninsured, who faced an average of $26,971 in medical costs. Those who had health insurance but lost it in the course of their illness reported average medical bills of $22,568.

The average medical bill - for the uninsured - is $26,971. Less than the price of a car!!! I love humiliating idiots like [MENTION=23461]RDD_1210[/MENTION]. Sorry drama queen, $500,000 is more unrealistic than a unicorn!

And a payment plant would easily cover that cost. Just admit you're a fuck'n parsite looking for your fellow citizen to pay your way through life.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/medical-bills-cause-most-bankruptcies/

Cancer will take you to 500K in no time.

High cost of care becomes cancer's growing burden ? USATODAY.com

It's a nice story SW, but it doesn't change the fact that the medical bill for the average uninsured person is less than a new car - and I've proven that with a link already. That's a far cry from RDD's outrageous (and frankly juvenile) $500,000 figure.

It's not an outrageous figure. Just a broken leg is $10k. Without insurance, who do you think is paying those bills?

 

[Seawytch]

Super Bowl champ Baltimore Ravens getting paid $130,000 to promote Obamacare | WashingtonExaminer.com

Can we assume you oppose NASCAR sponsorships by the military?

Well lets start with the fact that I flat out oppose NASCAR...

But back to your point, can we compare apples-to-apples for this discussion? Since the draft was abolished years ago, the federal government must recruit men & women into the military. That does require a certain amount of money to be spent (how much and in what ways are a whole different discussion). That is drastically different from spending tax payer money to promote something that was signed into law 3-4 years ago. Wouldn't you agree?

It clearly illustrates that the Dumbocrats know the American people do not want this and that they feel the need to propagandize it.

So one type of advertising is okay with you, another isn't. Thanks for admitting your hypocrisy.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[P@triot]

Come on [MENTION=41423]NoTeaPartyPleez[/MENTION] - tell me your all of your medical bills combined for you entire life have even come close to $500,000. Please? I would kill to hear that lie! We could spend decades laughing at you over that bullshit. Come on kitty-kitty-kitty... tell us the lie kitty!

Among families who were bankrupted by illness, those with private insurance reported average medical bills of $17,749 compared to those who were uninsured, who faced an average of $26,971 in medical costs. Those who had health insurance but lost it in the course of their illness reported average medical bills of $22,568.

The average medical bill - for the uninsured - is $26,971. Less than the price of a car!!! I love humiliating idiots like [MENTION=23461]RDD_1210[/MENTION]. Sorry drama queen, $500,000 is more unrealistic than a unicorn!

And a payment plant would easily cover that cost. Just admit you're a fuck'n parsite looking for your fellow citizen to pay your way through life.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/medical-bills-cause-most-bankruptcies/

Cancer will take you to 500K in no time.

High cost of care becomes cancer's growing burden ? USATODAY.com

Hi RDD Seawitch and Rottweiler:
Yes, I agree current trends in placating SYMPTOMS of cancer such as with chemotherapy which doesn't address the root cause or cure or prevention of cancer itself,
WILL run up your bills.

So instead of letting insurance companies and these treatment providers make all those millions off such expensive treatments after the fact,

why not promote FREE and EFFECTIVE measures known to reduce, prevent and/or cure cancer and tumors by addressing the root cause? Spiritual healing and other forms of natural healing have worked to either cure the disease or at least reduce the COST of more expensive treatments.

coudl it be that (1) insurance and service providers wouldn't make as much money?
(2) govt cannot impose, mandate or regulate cures for cancer that involve voluntary spiritual therapy since the generational forgiveness process works by free choice

why not?

if govt can impose mandates forcing people to pay for insurance who don't believe in that

why not force everyone to go through spiritual healing to cut costs of health care
so it doesn't waste taxpayer's money

it makes no sense to punish charity hospitals and volunteer programs
just to try to control everything through a collusion of govt with private insurance
so the money goes through them to try to manage everything.

govt cannot manage spiritual healing, and all medical treatment is affected by it
since all human beings are body/mind/spirit and need treatment of all three levels to heal

Here's the bottom line - the government has absolutely no business what so ever mandating anything, controlling the cost of anything, or involving themselves in the free market. And that's exactly why the Dumbocrats got their asses handed to them in the 2010 mid-terms and why the government experienced a "shut down".

And I've already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, the Dumbocrats in Washington and here on USMB know it too. But none of them are willing to take personal responsibility for themselves and their needs. Instead, they want to continue the same slavery that they adored in the 1800's. They lost the Civil Was but have continued to fight for slavery ever since.

 

[P@triot]

Can we assume you oppose NASCAR sponsorships by the military?

Well lets start with the fact that I flat out oppose NASCAR...

But back to your point, can we compare apples-to-apples for this discussion? Since the draft was abolished years ago, the federal government must recruit men & women into the military. That does require a certain amount of money to be spent (how much and in what ways are a whole different discussion). That is drastically different from spending tax payer money to promote something that was signed into law 3-4 years ago. Wouldn't you agree?

It clearly illustrates that the Dumbocrats know the American people do not want this and that they feel the need to propagandize it.

So one type of advertising is okay with you, another isn't. Thanks for admitting your hypocrisy.

SW - you're really so stupid that you don't understand why one advertises?

Yep - no doubt about it - you've definitely been a dependent of government since becoming an "adult" (and I do use that term lightly).

By the way, thank you for admitting you are a hypocrite (by your own standards). After all, since you approve one type of spending (welfare for you and your children) you must approve ALL forms of spending (Iraq "war").

 

[P@triot]

Cancer will take you to 500K in no time.

High cost of care becomes cancer's growing burden ? USATODAY.com

It's a nice story SW, but it doesn't change the fact that the medical bill for the average uninsured person is less than a new car - and I've proven that with a link already. That's a far cry from RDD's outrageous (and frankly juvenile) $500,000 figure.

It's not an outrageous figure. Just a broken leg is $10k. Without insurance, who do you think is paying those bills?

The person who broke their leg should be paying for it. But thanks to welfare baby communists like you, I end up paying for you and your children.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

The GOP perennially wrong

• They were wrong in 1935 about Social Security.
• They were wrong in 1965 about Medicare.

 

[P@triot]

There were no loss of freedoms and if you had half an ounce of intelligence you would have picked up by now that I displayed to you that you would have purchased insurance anyway, mandate or not...just like you would breathe oxygen, mandated or not. You're losing nothing...except for what little dignity you had.

You're serious, aren't you?

The freedom of choice was lost. The freedom to choose not to have maternity, newborn, pediatric care (including vision and dental) included in one's coverage because they are a 55 year old, single guy with no kids. The freedom to choose to keep your individual catastrophic health insurance plan that you have had for years was taken away. Why? Because it wasn't (un)aca compliant ... it didn't include coverage for maternity, newborn, pediatric care (including vision and dental). The freedom to choose a plan that fit one's needs, rather than a plan that fit someone else's needs, was taken away. The freedom to keep healthy and pay a lower rate is gone. Now people with pre-existing conditions don't pay more for their coverage, even though they are a higher risk.

You're another stupid leftist who can't see the forest for the trees.

News flash, insurance plans have always and will always cover services that not everyone needs. Until the day comes out where there is a a-la-carte insurance plan, this is a ridiculous and invalid talking point.

Like I said, no freedoms were lost.

I no longer have the freedom to decide whether or not to carry insurance. Freedoms were lost and you know it. Pretending like the sun isn't hot and water isn't wet isn't a defense you fuck'n moron. You're just humiliating yourself more than normal now.

 

[P@triot]

Dude - I've completely owned you. There are many variables and all you give is ONE of many and expect a number. This is how stupid you are.

Do houses have payment plans? Do automobiles have payment plans? Do dentists have payment plans?!?! So why is this any different?!?!

Do you see what an ignorant buffoon you are? You've been humiliated here son. You're just paralyzed with fear that someone will actually make you pay your own way through life instead of sitting on your ass in your trailer park typing nonsense on USMB like "hey, this scenario has 37 variables, but I'm going to give you ONE and expect an answer"

Another post where you refuse to lay out a basic payment plan. It's not a difficult request, yet you refuse to answer. Your excuses are lame and your viewpoint has been exposed as selfish and flawed.

What are you talking about asshat? I've been waiting for 40 posts now for you to answer why Obama and the Dumbocrats fine cadillac healthcare plans in Obamacare when they claim that Obamacare is to create quality, affordable healthcare (which is exactly what a cadillac healthcare plan is).

I'll tell you what [MENTION=23461]RDD_1210[/MENTION], when you answer my question (which I asked first and a long time ago), I'll answer yours. Until then, well, you continue to embarrass yourself by exposing your ignorance.

I'm still waiting [MENTION=23461]RDD_1210[/MENTION] (and, frankly, this is getting exceedingly humiliating for you now).

Why did Obama and the Dumbocrats place a penalty/fine for cadillac healthcare plans in Obamacare when they claim that the entire point of Obamacare was to create quality, affordable healthcare (which is exactly what a cadillac healthcare plan is)?

Someone is exposing their ignorance by dodging a simple question...

(come welfare queen - you've had about 5 hours now to look this up )

 

[P@triot]

Cancer will take you to 500K in no time.

High cost of care becomes cancer's growing burden ? USATODAY.com

Correct. I have a close family member who fought Leukemia and the bill was over 480k for the treatments. That person is in remission right now.

I have a family member who died of leukemia. Bill was well over $500K. Catastrophic injury or disease can go over "lifetime limit" in no time.

And your point is? Because something is expensive, you get to force someone else to pay for it? Is that where you're going with this?

 

[emilynghiem]

It is sad that this has to happen.

It's also sad that the GOP has convinced people of "death panels", "losing freedom" and all the other hysterical nonsense that you sheep believe, that have actually made you think you hate a law that is a Republican idea.

So yeah, it's sad that a campaign needs to be waged to combat such blatant misinformation.

Hi RDD as a prochoice progressive Democrat who works two jobs to save a national historic district of African American churches in Congresswoman SJLees district, I am shocked and outraged no funding has gone into plans here for a campus with health care services to change welfare to a sustainable system, but democrats push aca which limits the choices to insurance or fines to govt. This isnt prochoice to me. Can you explain why
This cant be run and paid for by free choice. Ppl are not penalized for wanting the free choice of abortion instead of paying for prolife only or be fined. Why penalize ppl for wanting free choices in health care instead of paying for insurance or be fined. If we dont trust fed govt to make decisions regulating abortion why trust them with even more policies on health where we cant vote directly on policies through this system. Why can u pls explain. I asked luddly and didnt get any response. Can you explain it better than we can thanks. All i get from prochoice singlepayer supporters is this is a stepping stone so why not let those ppl opt in who like this approach and protect free choice to opt elsewhere.

 

[P@triot]

[MENTION=32558]Luddly Neddite[/MENTION] please explain to me where is the origin of debt here? Lets set aside the U.S. Constitution for a moment since we both know it is not in there and in fact, quite the opposite, protects us from the slavery you want to return to.

So please explain to me where I can find the origin of this debt?

 

[P@triot]

[MENTION=24452]Seawytch[/MENTION] please explain to me where is the origin of debt here? Lets set aside the U.S. Constitution for a moment since we both know it is not in there and in fact, quite the opposite, protects us from the slavery you want to return to.

So please explain to me where I can find the origin of this debt?

 

[P@triot]

[MENTION=23461]RDD_1210[/MENTION] please explain to me where is the origin of debt here? Lets set aside the U.S. Constitution for a moment since we both know it is not in there and in fact, quite the opposite, protects us from the slavery you want to return to.

So please explain to me where I can find the origin of this debt?

 

[P@triot]

[MENTION=41423]NoTeaPartyPleez[/MENTION] please explain to me where is the origin of debt here? Lets set aside the U.S. Constitution for a moment since we both know it is not in there and in fact, quite the opposite, protects us from the slavery you want to return to.

So please explain to me where I can find the origin of this debt?

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Well lets start with the fact that I flat out oppose NASCAR...

But back to your point, can we compare apples-to-apples for this discussion? Since the draft was abolished years ago, the federal government must recruit men & women into the military. That does require a certain amount of money to be spent (how much and in what ways are a whole different discussion). That is drastically different from spending tax payer money to promote something that was signed into law 3-4 years ago. Wouldn't you agree?

It clearly illustrates that the Dumbocrats know the American people do not want this and that they feel the need to propagandize it.

So one type of advertising is okay with you, another isn't. Thanks for admitting your hypocrisy.

SW - you're really so stupid that you don't understand why one advertises?

Yep - no doubt about it - you've definitely been a dependent of government since becoming an "adult" (and I do use that term lightly).

By the way, thank you for admitting you are a hypocrite (by your own standards). After all, since you approve one type of spending (welfare for you and your children) you must approve ALL forms of spending (Iraq "war").

Perhaps you did not notice that spending on assistance to our citizens serves a social purpose and provides benefits to our society... I approve such spending...the spending on Iraq did us no good, served no social purpose, provided no benefits and killed a bunch of innocent people... I repudiate that spending with prejudice...

 

[emilynghiem]

Correct. I have a close family member who fought Leukemia and the bill was over 480k for the treatments. That person is in remission right now.

I have a family member who died of leukemia. Bill was well over $500K. Catastrophic injury or disease can go over "lifetime limit" in no time.

And your point is? Because something is expensive, you get to force someone else to pay for it? Is that where you're going with this?

I think because ppl dont want to believe free spiritual healing can cure the cause of cancer
And end dependence on chemotherapy and medications that mke money
They want everyone to pay for that instead. Otherwise using medical research to
Prove how spiritual healing works would prove Christians and
Conservatives right. They want to use federal govt as their substitute church.

They complain about religions forcing their views in public,
So until they make the same mistake they won't understand
They are basically mandating that everyone else pay to follow
Their beliefs in insurance and fine people for having different
Beliefs that dont count as a choice under govt regulations.

They have to commit the same wrongs they accuse others of.
So prochoice ppl now sound like prolife and prolife are
Arguing for prochoice free of govt regulations and controls.

As soon as everyone gets that they swapped positions,
We can quit playing these games bullying back and forth.
We need to separate beliefs by party and fund our own programs
Not charge our pet projects to the public but either get money
By serving as a business or get donations as a charity or
Investments in a school. But on a voluntary basis not forced by law.
Whoever gets this first wins. Until we do, we all lose.