The Genesis Conflict - 102 - A Universal Flood

[LOki]

Please see this explanation on the matter.

Does the Bible teach that the Earth is flat?

As usual you completely misunderstand.

I was not talking about the bible teaching flat earth.

YOU said that when the bible speaks of earth, it is talking of the dry land. You used scripture as an example that earth meant dry land and seas was used for water. Based on that, when the bible says 'It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth' it means he that sits on the circle of the dry land.

In other words, either circle of the earth is not talking about the planet as a sphere, or your contention that earth in the bible means dry land is incorrect. Obviously, the planet is not just dry land.

Did you not grasp it when I said there are different continents around the world ?

1Sa 2:8 He raises up the poor out of the dust; He lifts up the needy from the dunghill to set them among princes; yea, He causes them to inherit a throne of honor; for to Jehovah are the pillars of the earth; and He sets the habitable world on them.

The pillars of the earth is dry land =earth

This is taking the term out of context. The term is actually meant to refer to that part of creation distinct from the heavens, upon which the whole of God's creation (God's world) has been placed upon.

2Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were uncovered, at the rebuking of Jehovah, at the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

Just like I just said.

Here is the difference.

Job 34:13 Who has given the earth as a deposit with Him? Or who has set the whole world in order?

World is the planet.

Incorrect. "World," here, is all of God's creation--i.e. God's world.

 

[LOki]

It seems that Drock, et al are redefining whatever they want as "strawmen questions" in an attempt to justify not answering them. AKA not having any answers to those legitimate questions.

Nonsense. Your strawmen were explained to you clearly. There is no "redefining" in play, except by you.

 

[Youwerecreated]

We had better morals when slavery was legal and women were viewed as 2nd class citizens to men?

No not at all,but if you consider once we dealt with those problems we were a more moral society for a while then once the anti God crowd got going look at us now.

Inner city gangs,drugs,crime,beatings at sporting events,our children lack discipline and look at the crimes committed by juveniles.

Abortion,our politicians,come on it's obvious our morals are declining.

And again I have never been a fan of organized religion and organized religion has brought shame to God.

I don't know what country you live in.

In america we ONLY elect judeo-christians, about 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999% of our politicians have been of the judeo-christian faith so I have no idea where this anti-god jibberish talk is coming from. When our country first started we didn't force all our politicians to be of judeo-christian faith like we do now.

Do you realize politicians will say and do anything to be elected ? Do you see what the so called Chritian perry is doing to cain ?

Give me a break.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Well what they were doing was not good. Remember also that the Angels took human form and had children and the offspring were very evil.

Any society that God wiped out personally was judged so were the ones that he used Israel to war again'st.

The further the society gets from God the worse they become.

If you take a look at the united states from it's start to where it is now can you see a serious decline in morals ?

From it's start, it was a country that practiced slavery (which, by the way, your supposedly Moral "God" never got around to condemning.) Only white males with property could vote. It grew to to the exploitation of immigrant labor, and the abuse of children in sweatshops.

But we got above those things without much help from the religions or your mythical Sky Pixie, thatn you very much.

Now, back to the story, the problem is, the Angels were the ones who did wrong, not the babies born to them. So I still have to wonder why God needed to drown the babies.

Yes,but we corrected many things that were unjust.

We all inherit sin and are guilty of that period.

The ones that tried and did the best they could were spared judgement.

There was no way to save mankind except through the perfect sacrifice.

Wrong is wrong no matter how it is spun.

Do you think the world is better off ran by man ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I figured it out. The Ark was a TARDIS..

about as sensible as anything the bible thumpers have come up with.

Wrong the ark was the size of many freighters that cross the ocean today.

Besides your lack of a sense of humor....

(Seriously, a picture of the TARDIS is always funny.)

Freighters that ply the oceans of the world today-

1) Are built with complex engineering,
2) require dozens of men to maintain,
3) are not capable of holding all the animals known to exist, plus the food to sustain them for a year
4) Are not made of "Gopherwood",
5) Are not capable of withstanding a storm powerful enough to flood all the land masses.

I have a sense of humor,but I don't find it funny when someone mocks the creator and the bible when they're clearly ignorant on the subject.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Give me the verses that you claim teaches that the earth is flat and I will show you they have been taken out of context.

I seriously doubt that.
Job 26:7
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Job 38:13-14
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (14) It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Psalms 136:6
to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever;

Proverbs 8:27
When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

An Expanding universe teaches the earth is flat ?

He hangeth the earth on nothing what does that prove other than that the planet floats.

I don't see how these scriptures support your claim. They actually hurt it. And I already posted sites that covered these verses.

 

[Youwerecreated]

As usual you completely misunderstand.

I was not talking about the bible teaching flat earth.

YOU said that when the bible speaks of earth, it is talking of the dry land. You used scripture as an example that earth meant dry land and seas was used for water. Based on that, when the bible says 'It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth' it means he that sits on the circle of the dry land.

In other words, either circle of the earth is not talking about the planet as a sphere, or your contention that earth in the bible means dry land is incorrect. Obviously, the planet is not just dry land.

Did you not grasp it when I said there are different continents around the world ?

1Sa 2:8 He raises up the poor out of the dust; He lifts up the needy from the dunghill to set them among princes; yea, He causes them to inherit a throne of honor; for to Jehovah are the pillars of the earth; and He sets the habitable world on them.

The pillars of the earth is dry land =earth

This is taking the term out of context. The term is actually meant to refer to that part of creation distinct from the heavens, upon which the whole of God's creation (God's world) has been placed upon.

2Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were uncovered, at the rebuking of Jehovah, at the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

Just like I just said.

Here is the difference.

Job 34:13 Who has given the earth as a deposit with Him? Or who has set the whole world in order?

World is the planet.

Incorrect. "World," here, is all of God's creation--i.e. God's world.

World in the bible represents the planet or it can represent everything we see.

Earth represents the dry land where humans live upon.

It is clear words have more then one meaning in the Hebrew language you have to read it in context to understand how the term is being used.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land, Earth. And He called the gathering together of the waters, Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth tender sprouts (the herb seeding seed and the fruit tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself) upon the earth; and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth tender sprouts, the herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed was in itself. And God saw that it was good.

 

[Youwerecreated]

As usual you completely misunderstand.

I was not talking about the bible teaching flat earth.

YOU said that when the bible speaks of earth, it is talking of the dry land. You used scripture as an example that earth meant dry land and seas was used for water. Based on that, when the bible says 'It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth' it means he that sits on the circle of the dry land.

In other words, either circle of the earth is not talking about the planet as a sphere, or your contention that earth in the bible means dry land is incorrect. Obviously, the planet is not just dry land.

Did you not grasp it when I said there are different continents around the world ?

1Sa 2:8 He raises up the poor out of the dust; He lifts up the needy from the dunghill to set them among princes; yea, He causes them to inherit a throne of honor; for to Jehovah are the pillars of the earth; and He sets the habitable world on them.

The pillars of the earth is dry land =earth

This is taking the term out of context. The term is actually meant to refer to that part of creation distinct from the heavens, upon which the whole of God's creation (God's world) has been placed upon.

2Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were uncovered, at the rebuking of Jehovah, at the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

Just like I just said.

Here is the difference.

Job 34:13 Who has given the earth as a deposit with Him? Or who has set the whole world in order?

World is the planet.

Incorrect. "World," here, is all of God's creation--i.e. God's world.

How is it being used ?

Job 34:12 Yes, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert justice.
Job 34:13 Who has given the earth as a deposit with Him? Or who has set the whole world in order?
Job 34:14 If He sets His heart on man, if He gathers to Himself his spirit and his breath,
Job 34:15 all flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again to dust.


Gain all of God's creation that means universe ? World is being used to define the planet. Acouple of examples. But now in the greek language.

Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mat 26:13 Truly I say to you, Wherever this gospel shall be proclaimed in the whole world, that which this woman has done shall be spoken of also, for a memorial of her.

Clearly you take scripture out of context.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Clearly you need to study the scriptures more before you try to attack it.

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them.

 

[FurthurBB]

Funny how the critiques in this thread can't seem to provide an explanation for a phenomenon that is seen world wide.

Keep up the good work exposing the liars that say otherwise.

The liars are those that say the fossil record proves a worldwide flood. That's particularly ludicrous when you realize those same people will ignore the progression of fossils over the ages.

Wrong the liars are people who believe as you do,remember gould and eldredge had to make up a new theory to cover up the fossil evidence found in the cambrian explosion ? talk about moving the goalposts and lying at the same time. you people lack the the ability to reason fron real evidence when it is presented to you.

Hmmm ... Now it is lost and angry. People who understand science know that when new evidence is presented that falsifies previous understanding then it is either incorporated, if that is what the evidence suggests, or completely replaces the previous theory. You are picking out one of the long time evidenced theories of modern evolution that someone told you backed up your presumptions and denying others. People like you pretend these modern understanding and modern revisions do not exist because Darwin is somehow a profit and the theory of evolution implacable.

 

[FurthurBB]

Uh changing the subject are you ? it has been done many times because you refuse to accept is not the creationists problem.

Please go through all his points and give me a SCIENTIFIC reason why what he said is wrong. And please, Bible verses aren't proof he's wrong.


Thank you.

I have done it many times no one knows how many creatures were taken on the ark but you can bet they were all juveniles.

Do you remember the size of the ark is the same exact size as many of our ships today why ? is that just a coincedence ?

Remember we creationist believe that it only takes one set of parents to create each breed within a family and that is your microevolution in a nut shell it's through interbreeding,then cross breeding.

Take two muts for example now reason out how we got so many different breeds.

There would be very little possibility of crossbreeding in the situation you are talking about.

 

[LOki]

Give me the verses that you claim teaches that the earth is flat and I will show you they have been taken out of context.

I seriously doubt that.
Job 26:7
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Job 38:13-14
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (14) It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Psalms 136:6
to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever;

Proverbs 8:27
When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

An Expanding universe teaches the earth is flat ?

Strawman premise. There's no mention of an expanding universe in any of the scripture I referenced for you.

He hangeth the earth on nothing what does that prove other than that the planet floats.

If the planet was really a hanging globe as you insist (as the verse clearly and unambiguously asserts), then all the water would run off of it from the top to the bottom.

The only way a hanging earth (as it is described in the Bible) makes sense is if it's a flat horizontal plane.

I don't see how these scriptures support your claim. They actually hurt it. And I already posted sites that covered these verses.

Each of them confirm the assertion that the Bible assumes a flat earth cosmology, from the way it behaves, to its features, to the literal description of it being a circle, scribes on the (flat, BTW) surface of the waters.

 

[LOki]

Did you not grasp it when I said there are different continents around the world ?

1Sa 2:8 He raises up the poor out of the dust; He lifts up the needy from the dunghill to set them among princes; yea, He causes them to inherit a throne of honor; for to Jehovah are the pillars of the earth; and He sets the habitable world on them.

The pillars of the earth is dry land =earth

This is taking the term out of context. The term is actually meant to refer to that part of creation distinct from the heavens, upon which the whole of God's creation (God's world) has been placed upon.

Just like I just said.

Here is the difference.

Job 34:13 Who has given the earth as a deposit with Him? Or who has set the whole world in order?

World is the planet.

Incorrect. "World," here, is all of God's creation--i.e. God's world.

World in the bible represents the planet or it can represent everything we see.

Earth represents the dry land where humans live upon.

It is clear words have more then one meaning in the Hebrew language you have to read it in context to understand how the term is being used.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land, Earth. And He called the gathering together of the waters, Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth tender sprouts (the herb seeding seed and the fruit tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself) upon the earth; and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth tender sprouts, the herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed was in itself. And God saw that it was good.

I understand the context, and all my assertions are contextually consistent.

Sorry about your revisionist luck.

 

[LOki]

Clearly you take scripture out of context.

Clearly this is pathological projection.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The liars are those that say the fossil record proves a worldwide flood. That's particularly ludicrous when you realize those same people will ignore the progression of fossils over the ages.

Wrong the liars are people who believe as you do,remember gould and eldredge had to make up a new theory to cover up the fossil evidence found in the cambrian explosion ? talk about moving the goalposts and lying at the same time. you people lack the the ability to reason fron real evidence when it is presented to you.

Hmmm ... Now it is lost and angry. People who understand science know that when new evidence is presented that falsifies previous understanding then it is either incorporated, if that is what the evidence suggests, or completely replaces the previous theory. You are picking out one of the long time evidenced theories of modern evolution that someone told you backed up your presumptions and denying others. People like you pretend these modern understanding and modern revisions do not exist because Darwin is somehow a profit and the theory of evolution implacable.

Gradualism is not seen in the fossil record.

The cambrian explosion contradicts gradualism.

There is no way to explain how complexity just poofed showed up that is what's seen in the cambrian explosion.

Fossils found in the wrong strata is also evidence against gradualism.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Please go through all his points and give me a SCIENTIFIC reason why what he said is wrong. And please, Bible verses aren't proof he's wrong.


Thank you.

I have done it many times no one knows how many creatures were taken on the ark but you can bet they were all juveniles.

Do you remember the size of the ark is the same exact size as many of our ships today why ? is that just a coincedence ?

Remember we creationist believe that it only takes one set of parents to create each breed within a family and that is your microevolution in a nut shell it's through interbreeding,then cross breeding.

Take two muts for example now reason out how we got so many different breeds.

There would be very little possibility of crossbreeding in the situation you are talking about.

Not if the genetic information was already present in all animals that were on the ark to procreate the diversity we see.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I seriously doubt that.
Job 26:7
He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

Job 38:13-14
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (14) It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

Psalms 136:6
to him who spread out the earth upon the waters, for his steadfast love endures forever;

Proverbs 8:27
When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

An Expanding universe teaches the earth is flat ?

Strawman premise. There's no mention of an expanding universe in any of the scripture I referenced for you.

He hangeth the earth on nothing what does that prove other than that the planet floats.

If the planet was really a hanging globe as you insist (as the verse clearly and unambiguously asserts), then all the water would run off of it from the top to the bottom.

The only way a hanging earth (as it is described in the Bible) makes sense is if it's a flat horizontal plane.

I don't see how these scriptures support your claim. They actually hurt it. And I already posted sites that covered these verses.

Each of them confirm the assertion that the Bible assumes a flat earth cosmology, from the way it behaves, to its features, to the literal description of it being a circle, scribes on the (flat, BTW) surface of the waters.

Stretching out the heavens is not talking of an expanding universe ?

The planet his being held in position on the same plane as is all other planets.

Can you see the force keeping planets on their plane ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Clearly you take scripture out of context.

Clearly this is pathological projection.

Just admit you were wrong and took scripture out of context.

 

[Iridescence]

I don't know... but how could this even be an argument? The bible could not have possibly put forth the assumption of a physically flat earth because it clearly and plainly states the abilities of the wise men of the times who were able to decipher the hemispheric alignments and such that they also just as clearly and plainly understood to be of galactic measures.

 

[FurthurBB]

Every major civilization from the Aztecs to the Chinese have a legend of a Great Flood so clearly it probably happened

600MYA almost all the species on Earth were wiped out and at the same time the planet Venus seems to have had its surface totally remodeled.

The miracle is how relatively quiet Earth keeps our environment, with just an occasional hiccup. These little occasional hiccups typically destroy 98% of all life on Earth

Every major civilization also thought the world was flat.




Luckily in that case and the case with the great flood myths, we have science to thank for making a mockery of those fairy tales.

Wrong flat earthers came from evolutionist taking scripture out of context.

Yes it was a fairytale but please blame the correct people.

The theory of evolution came much later than belief in a flat earth.

 

[FurthurBB]

Science also tells us that were genetically the same for 250,000 years yet we only "discovered" a practical way to harness electricity 80 years ago?

Hmmmm, sounds like our Progress has been disrupted, more than once, in the recent past.

Also, you're quite wrong about a Flat Earth, that was just the view of the Church who still does the thinking for a lot of people "Scientists" included.

So since rabbits have been the same for thousands of years should they be out driving Hondas to get from hole to hole?

The Bible says the earth is flat, the links are already provided. It says repeatedly that there's 4 corners, makes mention of the ends of the earth and also says the earth can't be moved despite it constantly moving.

How many creatures that is supposedly millions of years old that show no evolution before you understand it does not happen ?

So, you believe there is a creature on earth who always clones themselves to perfection when replicating? I would like to see that.