The "free market" is a Big Government Program

[georgephillip]

When the Napa Valley Unified School District in California needed funds in 2009 to build a high school in American Canyon it took out a $22 million loan with no payments due for 21 years.

Where did Napa Valley USD obtain its loan, Loon?

 

[Indeependent]

Capitalism is far from perfect but people, under the right political leadership, have opportunities.

In GP's purist Communist World, no one has any opportunity.

Enough said.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When the Napa Valley Unified School District in California needed funds in 2009 to build a high school in American Canyon it took out a $22 million loan with no payments due for 21 years.

Where did Napa Valley USD obtain its loan, Loon?

A bond underwriter.

Municipal Bond Underwriting | ACAP Trading

www.acaptrading.com

If they had a bunch of money in a bank, would they need a loan?

 

[georgephillip]

Ellen Brown is a clueless idiot.
You have a lot in common.

Coming from you (an anonymous Internet troll), that's rich:

Overthrow the Speculators

"'When a public bank such as the bank in North Dakota funds infrastructure projects the interest costs, which [otherwise] are often 50 percent or more of a project, in essence fall to zero because the interest is returned to same people who own the bank and paid the interest in the first place,' said Armstrong, who previously worked for IBM Finance. '[Americans typically] hold labor costs under a microscope, but … don’t hold interest costs under a microscope. North Dakota can offer commercial loans as low as 1 percent.'"

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Ellen Brown is a clueless idiot.
You have a lot in common.

Coming from you (an anonymous Internet troll), that's rich:

Overthrow the Speculators

"'When a public bank such as the bank in North Dakota funds infrastructure projects the interest costs, which [otherwise] are often 50 percent or more of a project, in essence fall to zero because the interest is returned to same people who own the bank and paid the interest in the first place,' said Armstrong, who previously worked for IBM Finance. '[Americans typically] hold labor costs under a microscope, but … don’t hold interest costs under a microscope. North Dakota can offer commercial loans as low as 1 percent.'"

"'When a public bank such as the bank in North Dakota funds infrastructure projects the interest costs, which [otherwise] are often 50 percent or more of a project, in essence fall to zero because the interest is returned to same people who own the bank and paid the interest in the first place,'

Yup, a conservative state that doesn't waste all their money on illegal aliens and has surplus funds can lend that excess back out for local projects. Which leaves out all the indebted liberal shitholes she's preaching her public bank idiocy towards.

Ellen, idiot that she is, imagines that Illinois, for example, will save a bunch of money, because they can borrow their own extra money (they have none, obviously) at a lower interest rate than a real bank would charge them.

She's delusional, I can see why you like her.

FYI, the interest costs don't "fall to zero", those funds could be earning money in an investment.
Forgoing those earnings is not a "zero cost".
But, again, she's an idiot.

 

[georgephillip]

Markets do not distribute income anyway.

Your income, is based on the value you create with your labor.

If you create less value, you get less income.

What value do the 0.001% of "earners" contribute to warrant their share of this market?
Perhaps it has more to do with government redistribution

Income Inequality

 

[Indeependent]

Markets do not distribute income anyway.

Your income, is based on the value you create with your labor.

If you create less value, you get less income.

What value do the 0.001% of "earners" contribute to warrant their share of this market?
Perhaps it has more to do with government redistribution

Income Inequality

Is there a country, besides the US, you would like to live in.
Is there a country, besides the US, you would not like to live in.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Markets do not distribute income anyway.

Your income, is based on the value you create with your labor.

If you create less value, you get less income.

What value do the 0.001% of "earners" contribute to warrant their share of this market?
Perhaps it has more to do with government redistribution

Income Inequality

Rich people are wealthier than poor people.....communism our only hope!!!!!

 

[georgephillip]

If you mow my lawn, that action of mowing my lawn has a value to me. It is not the "market" that magically determines how much you make. *I* the customer determine how much you mowing my law, is worth to me, and pay you accordingly.

There is no "distribution" of wages going on. No one does that.

If a majority of your neighbors pay me $10 an hour to mow their lawns and you offer $5, how likely is it the market will work to your advantage?

 

[Indeependent]

If you mow my lawn, that action of mowing my lawn has a value to me. It is not the "market" that magically determines how much you make. *I* the customer determine how much you mowing my law, is worth to me, and pay you accordingly.

There is no "distribution" of wages going on. No one does that.

If a majority of your neighbors pay me $10 an hour to mow their lawns and you offer $5, how likely is it the market will work to your advantage?

No system is perfect but you are 100% convinced yours is.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you mow my lawn, that action of mowing my lawn has a value to me. It is not the "market" that magically determines how much you make. *I* the customer determine how much you mowing my law, is worth to me, and pay you accordingly.

There is no "distribution" of wages going on. No one does that.

If a majority of your neighbors pay me $10 an hour to mow their lawns and you offer $5, how likely is it the market will work to your advantage?

No system is perfect but you are 100% convinced yours is.

In his system, dissenters are shot.

 

[georgephillip]

Is there a country, besides the US, you would like to live in.
Is there a country, besides the US, you would not like to live in.

If you're offering the same, old, tired advice to "love it or leave it", you're wasting bandwidth. I didn't subscribe to your false dilemma when it was used to support Jim Crow or the US occupation of south Vietnam. I suspect those who endorsed child labor and 12 hour work-days also found "love it or leave it" advantageous to their causes.

I'm not going anywhere.

Perhaps many star-spangled capitalists would be happier in China or Russia?

 

[Indeependent]

Is there a country, besides the US, you would like to live in.
Is there a country, besides the US, you would not like to live in.

If you're offering the same, old, tired advice to "love it or leave it", you're wasting bandwidth. I didn't subscribe to your false dilemma when it was used to support Jim Crow or the US occupation of south Vietnam. I suspect those who endorsed child labor and 12 hour work-days also found "love it or leave it" advantageous to their causes.

I'm not going anywhere.

Perhaps many star-spangled capitalists would be happier in China or Russia?

In other words, you're admitting that even the havens you want to emulate are shit-holes.

 

[georgephillip]

The irony is, we didn't hang ourselves. But all the Socialist Countries under Stalin's ideology hanged themselves.

Stalin's command economy survived two world wars partially waged on its soil, as well as the heroic western invasion that followed the First Great Capitalist War of the 20th Century

When compared to "The Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World". Stalin's economy compares badly

I've never said capitalism doesn't generate wealth far more prolifically than any other economic system yet devised; why are you incapable of admitting its dismal failures at distributing that COLLECTIVE prosperity?

Nintil - The Soviet Union: GDP growth

 

[georgephillip]

No system is perfect but you are 100% convinced yours is.

I don't expect perfection from an economic system, and I've never advocated for the Soviet version of communism.

There are systems superior to US capitalism, and I'm convinced they deserve a trial:

Start With Worker Self-Directed Enterprises

"Contemporary capitalism no longer 'delivers the goods'—understood as a rising standard of real wages—to the majority of people.

"That classic defense of its instability (recurrent bouts of unemployment, lost output, and wasted resources), its deepening economic, political, and cultural inequalities (as Thomas Piketty documents), and the attendant injustices are no longer plausible.

"In the U.S. since the 1970s, and especially since 2007, those who control the dominant capitalist enterprises and the resulting economic 'development' made decisions that undermined the delivery of rising standards of living to the mass of people."

 

[georgephillip]

No system is perfect but you are 100% convinced yours is.

I don't expect perfection from an economic system, and I've never advocated for the Soviet version of communism.

Capitalism is far from perfect but people, under the right political leadership, have opportunities.

In GP's purist Communist World, no one has any opportunity.

Enough said.

My solution to our collective problems doesn't require Soviet (or Jim Crow) style terror; it requires ending finance capitalism's opportunity to loot the productive sectors:

Overthrow the Speculators

"The Bank of North Dakota, the vision of socialists from a century ago, has been in operation for 90 years. It offers the state’s farmers and businesses low interest rates on loans.

"After floods destroyed much of Grand Forks in 1997 the bank provided a six-month moratorium on mortgage payments and gave low-interest loans to the community to rebuild, a sharp contrast with the raw exploitation that marked the arrival of Wall Street bankers and speculators in Gulf Coast areas hit by Hurricane Katrina.

"Public banks in the United States, like the public banks in Germany, fund things such as solar power because it is good for communities rather than the portfolios of speculators."

 

[sparky]

Capitalism is far from perfect but people, under the right political leadership, have opportunities.

and therein lies the conundrum

Just what a true 'capitalist system' is , operates, and is defined ,could be quite the debate , and i'm sure you'd have the horsepower of opine Indeep

I look forward to such a thread....

~S~

 

[georgephillip]

How about that free health care in Venezuela. Enjoy sucker.

(note the difference between me and you... I posted a fact, and you posted a meme)

Which "fact" do you imagine you posted?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No system is perfect but you are 100% convinced yours is.

I don't expect perfection from an economic system, and I've never advocated for the Soviet version of communism.

Capitalism is far from perfect but people, under the right political leadership, have opportunities.

In GP's purist Communist World, no one has any opportunity.

Enough said.

My solution to our collective problems doesn't require Soviet (or Jim Crow) style terror; it requires ending finance capitalism's opportunity to loot the productive sectors:

Overthrow the Speculators

"The Bank of North Dakota, the vision of socialists from a century ago, has been in operation for 90 years. It offers the state’s farmers and businesses low interest rates on loans.

"After floods destroyed much of Grand Forks in 1997 the bank provided a six-month moratorium on mortgage payments and gave low-interest loans to the community to rebuild, a sharp contrast with the raw exploitation that marked the arrival of Wall Street bankers and speculators in Gulf Coast areas hit by Hurricane Katrina.

"Public banks in the United States, like the public banks in Germany, fund things such as solar power because it is good for communities rather than the portfolios of speculators."

"Public banks in the United States, like the public banks in Germany, fund things such as solar power because it is good for communities rather than the portfolios of speculators."

That is an awesome idea!
A bank owned by taxpayers can make low interest loans to money losing "renewable" energy projects.

 

[georgephillip]

Just what a true 'capitalist system' is , operates, and is defined ,could be quite the debate , and i'm sure you'd have the horsepower of opine Indeep

I don't have the horsepower to opine intelligently on such a weighty topic; however, I would suggest starting with a definition of "free market"

Are we discussing markets free of government regulation or markets free of undue rentier influence?

Rentier - Wikipedia

"Rentier may refer to:

• "Rentier (property owner) [fr], someone whose income derives from rents, interest on investments, and the like
• Rentier capitalism, economic practices of gaining profit by monopolizing access to property
• Rentier state, a state which derives national revenues from the rent of indigenous resources"