The "free market" is a Big Government Program

[georgephillip]

Coronavirus Is Forcing the GOP to Admit Its Ideology Is Delusional

"Markets, money, and corporations are all creations of the state.

"The distribution of income is not determined by an invisible hand’s objective appraisal of each worker and investor’s marginal utility but by the politically constructed laws and institutions that structure economic activity in a given society.

"These are plain facts."

Neither Trump nor Biden will concede there's nothing natural or inherently just about market distribution of income; therefore, the top 0.1% of households, which currently "own" as much wealth as the bottom 90% of the population combined, will continue to profit from their control of markets, money, and corporations while the larger society absorbs most of the losses.

Hope and Change or MAGA?

 

[RodISHI]

Hope in God's plan and MAGA for president.

It will be up to the people to determine whether they wish to support the 'large corporates' with their poverty dollars.

 

[Mac1958]

Coronavirus Is Forcing the GOP to Admit Its Ideology Is Delusional

"Markets, money, and corporations are all creations of the state.

"The distribution of income is not determined by an invisible hand’s objective appraisal of each worker and investor’s marginal utility but by the politically constructed laws and institutions that structure economic activity in a given society.

"These are plain facts."

Neither Trump nor Biden will concede there's nothing natural or inherently just about market distribution of income; therefore, the top 0.1% of households, which currently "own" as much wealth as the bottom 90% of the population combined, will continue to profit from their control of markets, money, and corporations while the larger society absorbs most of the losses.

Hope and Change or MAGA?

Since the days of Reagan's "government is the problem" speech line, the GOP has intellectually calcified into believing that there is no role for government in capitalism. So any role government plays, such as regulation, is attacked like it's happening in a war zone.

Anyone who understands and respects capitalism's strengths and weaknesses knows that proper, efficient regulation is not the bane of capitalism, but a critical component of it.

The Meltdown of 2008/2009 should have taught them a lesson about the dangers of under-regulation, but talk radio jumped on that quickly by teaching them to ignore a majority of what happened to cause the Meltdown, and to concentrate ONLY on Fannie, Freddie, and Barney Frank.

These people have been taught to focus only on capitalism's strengths and to ignore and avoid its weaknesses. To no surprise, we have seen a corresponding increase in interest in socialism.

 

[georgephillip]

The Meltdown of 2008/2009 should have taught them a lesson about the dangers of under-regulation, but talk radio jumped on that quickly by teaching them to ignore a majority of what happened to cause the Meltdown, and to concentrate ONLY on Fannie, Freddie, and Barney Frank.

The meltdown you mention was a bailout, imho, for the previous bailout in 2001 which was attributed to the Dot Com (911?) failures. This current episode seems to be playing out similarly to 2008's in the sense that the FIRE sector (Finance, Insurance, REAL ESTATE) stands to be made whole at the expense of the productive economy.
America's Demise In One Simple Chart - The Path To A FIRE Economy

Would it not be ironic if a failed real estate speculator presided over the demise of Finance Capitalism?

 

[georgephillip]

Hope in God's plan and MAGA for president.

It will be up to the people to determine whether they wish to support the 'large corporates' with their poverty dollars.

Does Trump, Inc qualify as a "large corporate"?

Trump, Inc.: Episodes | WNYC Studios | Podcasts

 

[RodISHI]

Hope in God's plan and MAGA for president.

It will be up to the people to determine whether they wish to support the 'large corporates' with their poverty dollars.

Does Trump, Inc qualify as a "large corporate"?

Trump, Inc.: Episodes | WNYC Studios | Podcasts

I'm sure it does but that doesn't sound like he's undermining the mom and pop hotel and motel businesses in any thing you have there. If people use his corporate hotels are they choosing to do that or are those corporate hotels with the Trump name the only ones available?

Gambling has always been a racket but again that is a choice matter people make for themselves.

Now when it comes to the basics like groceries, farming, big pharma and the rest of the basic needs we have companies like Walmart and others who have undermined small business enterprises with cheap foreign goods but the people allowed them to do that. Now under the current crisis if you want to buy more than one gallon of milk at a time or one gallon of water at a time Walmart would gladly have people come back and expose themselves on a daily basis instead of allowing a person to buy enough to sustain their family for a few weeks at a time.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"Markets, money, and corporations are all creations of the state.

Wrong of course, long before the state people freely traded or bartered and used gold. Long before the state, groups or corporations formed to pool talents and resources.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The 5 steps of corporatism

Obama Sanders Biden Warren are corporatists or socialists ie they want to combine business and govt as in Obamacare, Green New Deal.

Republicans are for capitalism or free markets ie govt and business are separate. You get ahead when people want to buy your products not when a socialist govt interferes with your freedom to increase your standard of living.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"The distribution of income is not determined by an invisible hand’s objective appraisal of each worker and investor’s marginal utility but by the politically constructed laws and institutions that structure economic activity in a given society.

Under Republican capitalism it would be determined by the invisible hand's objective appraisal. Under libsocialism no way. This is why libsocialism just slowly starved 150 million to death.

 

[progressive hunter]

Coronavirus Is Forcing the GOP to Admit Its Ideology Is Delusional

"Markets, money, and corporations are all creations of the state.

"The distribution of income is not determined by an invisible hand’s objective appraisal of each worker and investor’s marginal utility but by the politically constructed laws and institutions that structure economic activity in a given society.

"These are plain facts."

Neither Trump nor Biden will concede there's nothing natural or inherently just about market distribution of income; therefore, the top 0.1% of households, which currently "own" as much wealth as the bottom 90% of the population combined, will continue to profit from their control of markets, money, and corporations while the larger society absorbs most of the losses.

Hope and Change or MAGA?

youre confusing free market with government controlled capitalism,,,

dont worry its a common mistake with kool ade drinkers,,,

 

[georgephillip]

Wrong of course, long before the state people freely traded or bartered and used gold. Long before the state, groups or corporations formed to pool talents and resources.

How long ago was that?
Many believe money came from credit extended by temples and palaces?

"Because there are so many examples of catalogued primitive currencies, and because the ways in which they are used are so widely varied (Einzig,1966), it is difficult to conclude with a strong statement that solving inefficiencies of barter with a medium of exchange never led to improvements in trade, or that it was never a part of the emergence of money in the three function definition.

"However, ancient Babylon is rich with historical examples of credit that lend themselves much more fruitfully to the thesis that wide scale trade did not encounter a significant double coincidence of wants problem.

"Instead, there were large institutions which set the precedent for the modern economy by establishing weights and measures, and that only after such units of account were in place did media of exchange fully take off."

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1396/3/implausible-barter-narrative-in-ancient-babylon

 

[georgephillip]

youre confusing free market with government controlled capitalism,,,

Markets, like money and corporations, are creations of government, or did your kool-aid tell you the invisible hand determines each worker's and investor's marginal utility?

 

[georgephillip]

Under Republican capitalism it would be determined by the invisible hand's objective appraisal. Under libsocialism no way. This is why libsocialism just slowly starved 150 million to death

What do you see in the immediate future for Republican capitalism?

Coronavirus Projected to Trigger Worst Economic Downturn Since 1940s

"WASHINGTON—The coronavirus shutdown will induce the sharpest economic downturn and push the U.S. budget deficit to the highest levels since the 1940s, the Congressional Budget Office projects.

"The economy is likely to shrink 12% in the second quarter—a 40% drop if it were to persist for a year—and the jobless rate will average 14%, the nonpartisan research service said Friday.

"Job losses will come to 27 million in the second and third quarters.
The federal budget deficit is expected to reach $3.7 trillion by the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30, the CBO said, up from about $1 trillion in the 12 months through March. Congress has authorized unprecedented deficit spending to offset the shutdown of vast swaths of the U.S. economy."

I apologize for the paywall.
WSJ has a two month subscription for $1 promotion that will expire shortly.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What do you see in the immediate future for Republican capitalism?

??? We don't have Republican capitalism we have a mixed economy. This is Econ 101. Do you understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Markets, like money and corporations, are creations of government,

wrong of course. freedom and free markets are a natural right with preceeds government, not a creation of government. Our Constitution is based on natural rights, primarily the natural right to be free of liberal government..

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Wrong of course, long before the state people freely traded or bartered and used gold. Long before the state, groups or corporations formed to pool talents and resources.

How long ago was that?
Many believe money came from credit extended by temples and palaces?

"Because there are so many examples of catalogued primitive currencies, and because the ways in which they are used are so widely varied (Einzig,1966), it is difficult to conclude with a strong statement that solving inefficiencies of barter with a medium of exchange never led to improvements in trade, or that it was never a part of the emergence of money in the three function definition.

"However, ancient Babylon is rich with historical examples of credit that lend themselves much more fruitfully to the thesis that wide scale trade did not encounter a significant double coincidence of wants problem.

"Instead, there were large institutions which set the precedent for the modern economy by establishing weights and measures, and that only after such units of account were in place did media of exchange fully take off."

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1396/3/implausible-barter-narrative-in-ancient-babylon

???? it's simple really. Ever heard of Cuba/Florida? East /West Germany. North/South Korea, USA/USSR? See why we say liberalism is based in pure ignorance?

 

[progressive hunter]

youre confusing free market with government controlled capitalism,,,

Markets, like money and corporations, are creations of government, or did your kool-aid tell you the invisible hand determines each worker's and investor's marginal utility?

I was talking about the free market not government controlled market,,,

 

[georgephillip]

Republicans are for capitalism or free markets ie govt and business are separate. You get ahead when people want to buy your products not when a socialist govt interferes with your freedom to increase your standard of living.

Republicans like?

Coronavirus Is Forcing the GOP to Admit Its Ideology Is Delusional

"As the coronavirus pandemic shutters America’s storefronts and fills its ICUs, the GOP is camouflaging a whispered confession beneath a cough.

"The party’s admission is so quiet most Republicans can’t even make it out themselves.

"But listen carefully to recent directives from the Trump administration and its allies and you’ll hear unmistakably: Our theory of governance is a lie."

Republican capitalism thrives by privatizing profits and socializing costs.
It is at least ironic when an economic system modeled on a cancer cell is undone by a virus.

 

[georgephillip]

I'm sure it does but that doesn't sound like he's undermining the mom and pop hotel and motel businesses in any thing you have there. If people use his corporate hotels are they choosing to do that or are those corporate hotels with the Trump name the only ones available?

I think some of those using Trump hotels are doing so to gain favors from a life-long con man. Trump's also borrowed money from China's state-owned banks, and some of those loans will come due during his second term:

Trump owed tens of millions to Bank of China

"Donald Trump is warning 'China will own the United States' if Joe Biden is elected president. ..."

"But Trump himself has taken on debt from China. In 2012, his real estate partner refinanced one of Trump’s most prized New York buildings for almost $1 billion. The debt included $211 million from the state-owned Bank of China — its first loan of this kind in the U.S. — which matures in the middle of what could be Trump’s second term."

 

[georgephillip]

Under Republican capitalism it would be determined by the invisible hand's objective appraisal. Under libsocialism no way. This is why libsocialism just slowly starved 150 million to death.

Why is it conservatives find it impossible to understand the consequences of creating a few vast private fortunes at the expense of national security?

Coronavirus Is Forcing the GOP to Admit Its Ideology Is Delusional

"But conservative orthodoxy has always been too detached from reality to command strict adherence.

" A theory of government assembled out of the self-affirming delusions of the reactionary rich — and seething, amnesia-laden nostalgia of white cultural traditionalists — is bound to be a poor compass for guiding the ship of state.

"This was true before the coronavirus reached our shores.

"But the pandemic has brought the tension between the verities of CPAC and exigencies of governance to such vertiginous heights Republicans have been forced to (tacitly, quietly) make three startling admissions:..."