The Founders on Religion

[Seawytch]

It's clear the founders didn't want religion interfering in government and vice versa regardless of their personal beliefs.

No my dear. It is clear that our founders didn't want the government in the church. But they absolutely wanted the church in government.

Wrong, as usual.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained."

— George Washington First Inaugural Address (April 30, 1789)

Sounds like a Muslim.

 

[BluesLegend]

Liberals LIE that really is the alpha and omega of any discussion regarding the left. Freedom OF religion not FROM religion.

Naturally atheist heathen liberals engaged in all manner of Godless behaviors would like to destroy religion and any sense of morality.

 

[P@triot]

The Founders predate Darwin. It's not exactly a leap to think that they might have had seriously antiquated views about the underlying 'truths' taught by the religion of their times.

That's a fair point and a rare rational response from the left. However, it doesn't change the fact that the founders had absolutely no intent of taking the church out of government. They only wanted the government out of the church.

 

[P@triot]

Who cares? Are you aware this isn't the 19th century?

The entire United States cares. Are you aware that this is the presmise of the United States Constitution and our rights?

Oh yeah...that's why you don't care. You hate both of those items.

 

[P@triot]

And there was nothing moral about some of the things perv Ben Franklin used to do.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. None of us are perfect my friend. But George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, etc. formed the perfect system of government.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding....~ Thomas Jefferson

Are you sure you want to discuss Thomas Jefferson with me?!?

“The varieties in the structure and action of the human mind, as in those of the body, are the work of our Creator, against which it cannot be a religious duty to erect the standard of uniformity. The practice of morality being necessary for the well-being of society, He has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus". – Thomas Jefferson in a letter to James Fishback (September 27, 1809.)

Founders Online: Thomas Jefferson to James Fishback (Draft), 27 September 1809

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: The Real Thomas Jefferson

BAM! Seawytch takes a heavy blow to the gut and is sent reeling .......

 

[P@triot]

It's clear the founders didn't want religion interfering in government and vice versa regardless of their personal beliefs.

No my dear. It is clear that our founders didn't want the government in the church. But they absolutely wanted the church in government.

Wrong, as usual.

I backed it up with facts. You denied it with misguided ideology.

 

[P@triot]

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding....~ Thomas Jefferson

Are you sure you want to discuss Thomas Jefferson with me?!?

“The varieties in the structure and action of the human mind, as in those of the body, are the work of our Creator, against which it cannot be a religious duty to erect the standard of uniformity. The practice of morality being necessary for the well-being of society, He has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus". – Thomas Jefferson in a letter to James Fishback (September 27, 1809.)

Founders Online: Thomas Jefferson to James Fishback (Draft), 27 September 1809

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: The Real Thomas Jefferson

BAM! Seawytch takes a heavy blow to the gut and is sent reeling .......

I don't state anything unless I can back it up with facts. Seawytch does the polar opposite. She can never back up her position with links, evidence, facts, etc.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Given that state supported persecution by the Catholic Church was the reason the Pilgrims left Europe, it is easy to see why the Founders wanted church doctrine kept out of government.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

You sure about that?

 

[whitehall]

Separation of church and state is a creation of the modern supreme court. There is no basis in the Constitution. The majority opinion regarding the issue of "separation of church and state" was written by a former KKK member, appointed to the Supreme Court by FDR, who hated "Papists" who were establishing private schools at the time and were a threat to the government sponsored education system.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Correction yet another left-wing false narrative. This time it is the lie that the founders wanted to build a "secular nation" in which the government was "free from religion".

"And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?"

— George Washington Farewell Address (September 19, 1796)

The Founders should have made this a Christian Nation tolerant of other believers and non believers. Imagine if non Christians had founded this Nation and how tolerant they would have been? Are Atheists tolerant? They shit themselves over a valedictorian saying "God".

 

[HaShev]

And there was nothing moral about some of the things perv Ben Franklin used to do.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. None of us are perfect my friend. But George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, etc. formed the perfect system of government.

Context was about Ben talking about Morality which is liken to Johny Knoxville talking about safety. In fact attributing the Torah's ethos to Jesus' morality is also problematic because at least 2 of the 3-4 Christs used for the Jesus image were immoral, the AD christ figure by the Jordan made Ben look like a choir boy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Separation of church and state is a creation of the modern supreme court. There is no basis in the Constitution.

Actually there is a basis, because the Constitution created the Supreme Court.

 

[Seawytch]

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding....~ Thomas Jefferson

Are you sure you want to discuss Thomas Jefferson with me?!?

“The varieties in the structure and action of the human mind, as in those of the body, are the work of our Creator, against which it cannot be a religious duty to erect the standard of uniformity. The practice of morality being necessary for the well-being of society, He has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus". – Thomas Jefferson in a letter to James Fishback (September 27, 1809.)

Founders Online: Thomas Jefferson to James Fishback (Draft), 27 September 1809

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: The Real Thomas Jefferson

BAM! Seawytch takes a heavy blow to the gut and is sent reeling .......

I don't state anything unless I can back it up with facts. Seawytch does the polar opposite. She can never back up her position with links, evidence, facts, etc.

Classic projection.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't think the intent of the founders on the subject of religion

was that we should forever treat the founders as gods.

 

[NYcarbineer]

On the subject of revering the beliefs, opinions, and intents of the Founders...

Should white Americans give them full reverence, but maybe 3/5ths reverence would be sufficient for black Americans?

 

[Seawytch]

“If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789

“Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792

“We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition… In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man’s religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States.”
~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793

“I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to the Baptists of Danbury, Connecticut, 1802

 

[Snouter]

Please read Mythology's Last Gods Yahweh and Jesus by William Harwood. The most intelligent founders were right in that the "Bible" was ridiculous nonsense. But hey, we have a country over there founded on the lies that only recognizes inbred folks who they deem consistent with the lies and US taxpayers help finance it. And they have hundreds of corporations and non-profits that will try to put you in prison for making that observation.

 

[P@triot]

And there was nothing moral about some of the things perv Ben Franklin used to do.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. None of us are perfect my friend. But George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, etc. formed the perfect system of government.

Context was about Ben talking about Morality which is liken to Johny Knoxville talking about safety. In fact attributing the Torah's ethos to Jesus' morality is also problematic because at least 2 of the 3-4 Christs used for the Jesus image were immoral, the AD christ figure by the Jordan made Ben look like a choir boy.

Again - the context is that your post makes zero sense. Johnny Knoxville would be PERFECT to preach about safety as who knows more about the results of risk than he does? Who better to speak about the consequences of poor choices?