georgephillip
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- #81
How many B-17s did the Arabs have?
The First Nakba Map...in Hebrew
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georgephillip
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- #82
Zionist immigration.
docmauser1
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- Oct 8, 2010
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Didn't they trade them for camels?
georgephillip
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- #84
"In November 1947, the Haganah was an underground paramilitary force that had existed as a highly organized, national force,since the Arab riots of 1920–21, and throughout the riots of 1929, Great Uprising of 1936–39.,[87] and World War 2. It had a mobile force, the HISH, which had 2,000 full-time fighters (men and women) and 10,000 reservists (all aged between 18 and 25) and an elite unit, the Palmach composed of 2,100 fighters and 1,000 reservists. The reservists trained three or four days a month[citation needed] and went back to civilian life the rest of the time. These mobile forces could rely on a garrison force, the HIM (Heil Mishmar, lit. Guard Corps), composed of people aged over 25. The Yishuv's total strength was around 35,000 with 15,000 to 18,000 fighters and a garrison force of roughly 20,000.[87][88]
"Two clandestine groups, Irgun and Lehi, had between 2,000–4,000 and 500–800 members, respectively. Irgun, whose activities were considered by MI5 to be terrorism, was monitored by the British.[89] There were also several thousand men and women who had served in the British Army in World War II who did not serve in any of the underground militias but would provide valuable military experience during the war.[90] Walid Khalidi says the Yishuv had the additional forces of the Jewish Settlement Police, numbering some 12,000, the Gadna Youth Battalions, and the armed settlers..."
1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
By comparison, between 1936-39 over ten percent of the adult male Palestinian Arab population was killed, wounded, imprisoned, or exiled, thanks to British imperialists who had been filling Palestine with Jews for the previous three decades.
Follow the money, Yeppers.
"Two clandestine groups, Irgun and Lehi, had between 2,000–4,000 and 500–800 members, respectively. Irgun, whose activities were considered by MI5 to be terrorism, was monitored by the British.[89] There were also several thousand men and women who had served in the British Army in World War II who did not serve in any of the underground militias but would provide valuable military experience during the war.[90] Walid Khalidi says the Yishuv had the additional forces of the Jewish Settlement Police, numbering some 12,000, the Gadna Youth Battalions, and the armed settlers..."
1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
By comparison, between 1936-39 over ten percent of the adult male Palestinian Arab population was killed, wounded, imprisoned, or exiled, thanks to British imperialists who had been filling Palestine with Jews for the previous three decades.
Follow the money, Yeppers.
georgephillip
Diamond Member
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- #85
Lucky Strikes.
Zero.
The Egyptians had six (6) British Stirling heavy bombers, and modified C-47 Dakotas used as light bombers, plus lighter-weight dive-bombers employed by the Syrians and Jordanians, as well as hundreds of high-caliber, high-powered surplus RAF Spitfires used for both bomber escort and ground attack and ground support. And the Arabs used their air forces first in 1948. Why do you ask?
Now, about the disparity between the number of Jews under arms versus the number of Arabs under arms in the 1948-1949 war...
Given the overwhelming preponderance of population enjoyed by the Arabs, why did the Arabs field so few troops, compared to the Jews, according to your own numbers?
Wny?
georgephillip
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- #87
Why do you think your allegations don't warrant links?
"Although the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine was unsuccessful, its consequences affected the outcome of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.[15] The main ways historians note the failed Arab revolt of 1936–1939 in Palestine went on to later affect the course of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war was by giving crucial British Mandate (British Mandate of Palestine) support to pre-state Zionist militias like the Haganah (chiefly via training and support to them directed by British Army officer Orde Wingate) and on the local Palestinian Arab side the revolt forced the fleeing into exile of the main local Palestinian Arab leader of the period, then Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, who had to leave Mandatory Palestine after the revolt was crushed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936%E2%80%931939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
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What would you like a link to, George? References to the Order of Battle for the Egyptian or other Air Forces on the cusp of the 1948 War? References to the British Sterlings and C-47 Dakotas and light dive-bombers and swarms of RAP Spitifires employed by the Arabs that I just mentioned? Just what in the hell are you looking for? All that crap is easily remedied.
And why am I answering you, when you have not yet extended to me reciprocal answers pertaining to the lack of Palestinian troops mustered in the field to defend their homes?
georgephillip
Diamond Member
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- #89
Defend their homes from what?
Oh, c'mon, fer Crissakes, don't go obtuse on me now...
With an Arab population twice the size of the Jewish population in 1948, why did the Palestinians not field a proportionally larger Palestinian Army, to defend their lands against their Jewish adversaries?
georgephillip
Diamond Member
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- #91
Defend their homes from a Jewish invasion the Zionists and British had been setting up for at least a dozen years? Don't go all opaque on me now.
Sure, let's play your game for a moment...
Defend their homes from a Jewish invasion the Zionists and British had been setting up for at least a dozen years.
Why did not the Palestinians field a credible force to fight-off the invaders?
When they knew for many months - years - in advance that it was coming?
georgephillip
Diamond Member
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- #93
Because between 1936-1939 over ten percent of Arab male adults in Palestine between the ages of 20 and 60 was killed, wounded, imprisoned, or exiled. Compare that to the 91 to a few hundred dead Jews during the same uprising.
"Although the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine was unsuccessful, its consequences affected the outcome of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.[15]
"The main ways historians note the failed Arab revolt of 1936–1939 in Palestine went on to later affect the course of the 1948 Arab-Israeli war was by giving crucial British Mandate (British Mandate of Palestine) support to pre-state Zionist militias like the Haganah (chiefly via training and support to them directed by British Army officer Orde Wingate) and on the local Palestinian Arab side the revolt forced the fleeing into exile of the main local Palestinian Arab leader of the period, then Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini, who had to leave Mandatory Palestine after the revolt was crushed."
1936?39 Arab revolt in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ten percent of fighting aged males and the exile of their principal leader would impede anyone's agency from defending their homes against foreign hordes. Additionally, Haganah existed as a highly organized national force since the time of the Arab riots of 1920-21 while Arabs had no similar national military organization.
As I understand the situation in Palestine at that time, most of the ground clashes took place on land slated for the Arab state; jews left their families behind while Arabs were forced to choose between fighting superior numbers of relatively well armed invaders or taking their wives and children to safety.
"Arab "leaders" contributed to the decay by inflating statistics of Hagahah "massacres" and urging civilians to clear the field for the five Arab armies.
"There was no national military organization in the Arab Palestinian community. There were two paramilitary youth organizations, the pro-Husayni Futuwa and the anti-Husayni Najjada ('auxiliary corps').[66]
"According to Karsh, these groups had 11,000–12,000 members,[66] but according to Morris, the Najjada, which was based in Jaffa and had 2,000–3,000 members, was destroyed in the run-up to the 1948 war, during Husayni's attempt to seize control of it, and the Futuwa never numbered more than a few hundred.[99]
"At the outbreak of the war, new local militia groups, the National Guard, mushroomed in towns and cities. Each was answerable to its local Arab National Committee.[100]
"The tendency of the Palestinians to dissipate their forces along village and clan lines would be a major weakness of the Palestinian side.[101] In particular there was a split within the Palestinian community between those loyal to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haji Amin Husseini and those opposed to his leadership.[66]
"In December, Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni, who was a protégé of his uncle the Grand Mufti arrived in Jerusalem with one hundred combatants who had trained in Syria and that would form the cadre of the Army of the Holy War. His forces were joined by a few hundred young villagers and veterans of the British army.[102]
"There were 7,000 Palestinians who served in the British Army during World War II, and 10,500 Palestinians in the Mandate's para-military police force most of whom deserted during the winter of 1947–48 fight in the war.[66]
"The equipment of the Palestinian forces was very poor. The British confiscated most of their arsenal during the 1936–39 rebellion and World War II..."
1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
aris2chat
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- Feb 17, 2012
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there might have been some iraqi soldiers in the ranks but to say anything beside syria, jordan and egypt had armies involved is a joke.
chaos and misinformation went both ways.
Syrians were killing palestinians, running over refugees slowing down their advance. Syrians have killed far more palestinians then egypt, jordan, lebanon and israel combined. It is only recently that the world sees what syrian is like with their own people. Half their population is now displaced or refugees. More than the palestinians.
Too many have suffered at the hands of a few strong arms and propaganda machines.
Oh, the lies that have for too long been taken as gospel by those desperate for answers or someone to blame. When the truth is spoken no one want to listen or believe.
Scapegoats and lies are easier to sell than truth. Ever wonder how so many conspiracy theories can exist often contradiction themselves? Internet is flooded with them despite facts being available. Questioning and fact checking is too much work especially when you are already bias. People believe what they want, not necessarily what is truth.
chaos and misinformation went both ways.
Syrians were killing palestinians, running over refugees slowing down their advance. Syrians have killed far more palestinians then egypt, jordan, lebanon and israel combined. It is only recently that the world sees what syrian is like with their own people. Half their population is now displaced or refugees. More than the palestinians.
Too many have suffered at the hands of a few strong arms and propaganda machines.
Oh, the lies that have for too long been taken as gospel by those desperate for answers or someone to blame. When the truth is spoken no one want to listen or believe.
Scapegoats and lies are easier to sell than truth. Ever wonder how so many conspiracy theories can exist often contradiction themselves? Internet is flooded with them despite facts being available. Questioning and fact checking is too much work especially when you are already bias. People believe what they want, not necessarily what is truth.
Contribution to the 1948-1949 Arab-Israeli War by "Iraq: 3,000 initially, rising to 15,000–18,000".
1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ten (10) percent of their fighting males and their biggest leader, gone, George?
What about the other ninety (90%) percent, finding new leaders, to help them make their stand, when it came time to defend their homes?
Confiscated equipment in the 1930s, attributable to the Arab Uprising of 1936-1937?
Maybe they should not have chosen poorly (again!) and revolted in the first place against the mighty British Empire under the circumstances, in such a tight, confined, accessible area, with no prospect of winning, eh?
And even so, why didn't the Palestinians smuggle-in NEW equipment on an even grander scale than that smuggled-in by the Jews, to replace what they'd lost?
And, didn't the British leave most of their equipment and rolling-stock and bases and forts to the Arabs, as the British were leaving Palestine?
Your excuse-making for the Palestinians not fielding a larger force in defense of their own homes is wearing rather thin.
What about the other ninety (90%) percent, finding new leaders, to help them make their stand, when it came time to defend their homes?
Confiscated equipment in the 1930s, attributable to the Arab Uprising of 1936-1937?
Maybe they should not have chosen poorly (again!) and revolted in the first place against the mighty British Empire under the circumstances, in such a tight, confined, accessible area, with no prospect of winning, eh?
And even so, why didn't the Palestinians smuggle-in NEW equipment on an even grander scale than that smuggled-in by the Jews, to replace what they'd lost?
And, didn't the British leave most of their equipment and rolling-stock and bases and forts to the Arabs, as the British were leaving Palestine?
Your excuse-making for the Palestinians not fielding a larger force in defense of their own homes is wearing rather thin.
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georgephillip
Diamond Member
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- #97
Why Palestinians didn't field a larger force doesn't change the fact that 650,000 Jews inflicted their nation by force of arms on twice as many non-Jews in 1948 Palestine, does it?
"Of the 1,358,000 Palestinian Arab 9itizens of Palestine in 1948, approximately 873;600 resided within what. would become the Israeli borders, 485,000 without. The Israelis recorded 156,000 non-Jews in 1948, a number that included perhaps 1,000 non-Arabs, leaving 155,000 Palestinians in Israel. This means that 718,000 Palestinians either were refugees or died during the war."
Your amateurish attempts to divert an inquiry into Jewish ethnic cleansing in 1948 Palestine by changing the subject to why didn't the victims do a better job of organizing their defense is also becoming thin.
Palestine Population: During The Ottoman And The British Mandate Periods - Palestine Remembered
docmauser1
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Arabs came, arabs got a kampfstiefel up the arse, arabs left. End.
georgephillip
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- #99
Kampfstiefel...? wasn't that Hitler's brand?
How many kids have you gassed today, Drivel?
Copycat.
As a non-stakeholder, I, for one, do not bother to try to avoid the idea that 650,000 Jews imposed their newly-reborn State upon 1,300,000 Arab Palestinians.
Whatever in the world led you to believe that I was trying to distract such a focus?
Hell, I'll agree with you in-public, 100 times out of 100.
The difference being that you think that's a disgrace to the Jews...
Whereas I think that's a disgrace to the Palestinians, and say so, often...
Whatever in the world leads you to believe that I was trying to distract attention away from Jewish intentions to Evict the Palestinians from their lands and Expel them to Jordan and Lebanon?
Hell, I'll agree with you in-public, 100 times out of 100.
The difference being that you think that's a disgrace to the Jews...
Whereas I think it's their only chance for long-term survival, by expelling the Enemy in their Midst...
You must have me confused with some other poster who tries to dodge those issues...
I meet them head-on, and celebrate them, to varying degrees...
But none of that excuses the unpreparedness and incompetence and cowardice and Big Skeddadle of your beloved Palestinians in 1948...
Although it's clear that you've exhausted your short list of excuses for their cowardice and have resorted to other tactics...
My goodness... 718,000 is, indeed, a Big Skeddadle...
How much different might their fate have been, had they (1) had the brains to adequately prepare for what was clearly coming in a few years, like the Jews did, and (2) had the courage to collectively stand their ground and fight for their land, for themselves and their descendants, relying upon their own mettle, like the Jews did, rather than running like women, and leaving it to mercenaries...
Never mind the fine job that Israeli women did in support and combat roles during their 1948 bid for a homeland, unlike most of the Palestinian men-folk who skeddadled... more shame on them...
No guts, no glory...
"A coward dies a thousand deaths - in a refugee camp for 65 years after running - a brave man dies but one..."
Big Skeddadle, indeed...
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