The falsehoods of voter ID laws suppressing turnout

[Peach]

Fraud isnt the topic of this thread. Results of ID laws is.

It is too early to know if turnout nationwide will go up or down; systems must be in place to prevent the denial of our most basic RIGHT. ID issued at local election offices is my preference. It occurred to me that having the card in your possession may REMIND casual voters TO vote, that could increase turnout.

It is not too early to tell. DID YOU EVEN READ THE OP????

Yes, that is why I wrote NATIONWIDE, and "the studies you cite are encouraging". The fact that one HAS the card might prompt some to vote that are otherwise irregular voters. A few states though does not equal NATIONWIDE.

 

[MuadDib]

And the Obama sayeth, "Yea, verily, the dead shall rise and vote for me."

 

[Darkwind]

A federal judge already said the only purpose was to suppress the vote. You guys lie about anything, don't you. No morals? Yep.

Link

 

[g5000]

The number of African-Americans voting in the 2008 primary also doubled from 2004. In fact, there were 100,000 more votes in the Democratic Primary than in the Republican Primary.

Hmmmm...I wonder why more black people turned out in 2008. I'm sure some people have no fricking clue why that is.

More black people than usual turned out to vote. Gosh, I can't for the life of me figure out why...

Oh! It must have been the Voter ID laws!

This is the worst case of post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy I have ever seen. And that's really saying something.

Just because more black voters turned out in 2008 than usual is not evidence none have been disenfranchised by some states' Voter ID laws.

 

[g5000]

Two Wisconsin state courts have declared Wisconsin’s Voter ID law unconstitutional under the state constitution. Moreover, as one of the two judges to do so pointed out, the law already disenfranchised voters during the short time it is in effect — including a Marine veteran and a 84 year-old former elected official. Yesterday, it also appears to have disenfranchised one more elderly voter, despite the fact that the law is supposed to be suspended due to the multiple court decisions against it:


It took persistence – and a second trip to her Waukesha polling place – by a 63-year-old Waukesha woman to vote Tuesday. But she said her 87-year-old mother who couldn’t make the trip back was disenfranchised by a poll worker who asked to see a photo ID.

Wisconsin’s new voter ID law was in place for the February primary but not for Tuesday’s general election after a judge ruled it was unconstitutional. The photo ID requirement is on hold while the matter is appealed

. . . .

The woman said she and her mother had moved to Waukesha last May and registered to vote at Waukesha City Hall in January. They went to their Waukesha West High School poll Tuesday but were asked to show identification – which her mother hadn’t brought with her. Her own driver’s license had an out-of-date address on it, she said.

“We were listed on their friggin’ poll list,” she said, “and yet we had our names highlighted.” The poll worker said maybe they didn’t register in time, though they clearly had.

As a new Center for American Progress Report points out, elderly voters are frequently the victims of Voter ID laws. A short list of older voters who have been kept from the polls by these laws include Paul Carroll, a 86-year-old World War II veteran from Ohio; Dorothy Cooper, a 96-year-old African-American woman from Tennessee, and Thelma Mitchell a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years.

Yesterday, however, probably marks the first time an elderly voter was disenfranchised by a voter ID law that isn’t even supposed to be in effect.

87 Year-Old Voter Claims She Was Disenfranchised By Voter ID Despite Court Decision Striking It Down | ThinkProgress

 

[Peach]

Two Wisconsin state courts have declared Wisconsin’s Voter ID law unconstitutional under the state constitution. Moreover, as one of the two judges to do so pointed out, the law already disenfranchised voters during the short time it is in effect — including a Marine veteran and a 84 year-old former elected official. Yesterday, it also appears to have disenfranchised one more elderly voter, despite the fact that the law is supposed to be suspended due to the multiple court decisions against it:


It took persistence – and a second trip to her Waukesha polling place – by a 63-year-old Waukesha woman to vote Tuesday. But she said her 87-year-old mother who couldn’t make the trip back was disenfranchised by a poll worker who asked to see a photo ID.

Wisconsin’s new voter ID law was in place for the February primary but not for Tuesday’s general election after a judge ruled it was unconstitutional. The photo ID requirement is on hold while the matter is appealed

. . . .

The woman said she and her mother had moved to Waukesha last May and registered to vote at Waukesha City Hall in January. They went to their Waukesha West High School poll Tuesday but were asked to show identification – which her mother hadn’t brought with her. Her own driver’s license had an out-of-date address on it, she said.

“We were listed on their friggin’ poll list,” she said, “and yet we had our names highlighted.” The poll worker said maybe they didn’t register in time, though they clearly had.

As a new Center for American Progress Report points out, elderly voters are frequently the victims of Voter ID laws. A short list of older voters who have been kept from the polls by these laws include Paul Carroll, a 86-year-old World War II veteran from Ohio; Dorothy Cooper, a 96-year-old African-American woman from Tennessee, and Thelma Mitchell a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years.

Yesterday, however, probably marks the first time an elderly voter was disenfranchised by a voter ID law that isn’t even supposed to be in effect.

87 Year-Old Voter Claims She Was Disenfranchised By Voter ID Despite Court Decision Striking It Down | ThinkProgress

One of the turned away voters was a Vet of course. It is gonna cost a ton of money to get constitutional, enforceable laws regarding ID. The ID must be free, I believe, as DLs are needed for the primary purpose of driving. One can argue that if the sole purpose of the ID is voting, it is a poll tax if there is any cost. Uniform regs, and forms will be required at each polling place within each state. Imagine the lawsuits if voters are turned away because the rejection is based on "that picture doesn't look like you". No changing hair color, no drastic changes in hair style, and no drastic weight loss or gain. The counties in each state will need more staff to analyze the ID of course.

 

[Darkwind]

Two Wisconsin state courts have declared Wisconsin’s Voter ID law unconstitutional under the state constitution. Moreover, as one of the two judges to do so pointed out, the law already disenfranchised voters during the short time it is in effect — including a Marine veteran and a 84 year-old former elected official. Yesterday, it also appears to have disenfranchised one more elderly voter, despite the fact that the law is supposed to be suspended due to the multiple court decisions against it:


It took persistence – and a second trip to her Waukesha polling place – by a 63-year-old Waukesha woman to vote Tuesday. But she said her 87-year-old mother who couldn’t make the trip back was disenfranchised by a poll worker who asked to see a photo ID.

Wisconsin’s new voter ID law was in place for the February primary but not for Tuesday’s general election after a judge ruled it was unconstitutional. The photo ID requirement is on hold while the matter is appealed

. . . .

The woman said she and her mother had moved to Waukesha last May and registered to vote at Waukesha City Hall in January. They went to their Waukesha West High School poll Tuesday but were asked to show identification – which her mother hadn’t brought with her. Her own driver’s license had an out-of-date address on it, she said.

“We were listed on their friggin’ poll list,” she said, “and yet we had our names highlighted.” The poll worker said maybe they didn’t register in time, though they clearly had.

As a new Center for American Progress Report points out, elderly voters are frequently the victims of Voter ID laws. A short list of older voters who have been kept from the polls by these laws include Paul Carroll, a 86-year-old World War II veteran from Ohio; Dorothy Cooper, a 96-year-old African-American woman from Tennessee, and Thelma Mitchell a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years.

Yesterday, however, probably marks the first time an elderly voter was disenfranchised by a voter ID law that isn’t even supposed to be in effect.

87 Year-Old Voter Claims She Was Disenfranchised By Voter ID Despite Court Decision Striking It Down | ThinkProgress

One of the turned away voters was a Vet of course. It is gonna cost a ton of money to get constitutional, enforceable laws regarding ID. The ID must be free, I believe, as DLs are needed for the primary purpose of driving. One can argue that if the sole purpose of the ID is voting, it is a poll tax if there is any cost. Uniform regs, and forms will be required at each polling place within each state. Imagine the lawsuits if voters are turned away because the rejection is based on "that picture doesn't look like you". No changing hair color, no drastic changes in hair style, and no drastic weight loss or gain. The counties in each state will need more staff to analyze the ID of course.

Phoney arguments that have no merit. People have Drivers license and change their hair, weight and sometimes, even hair color.. I have a beard in My current drivers license that I shaved off a year ago.

Arguments for a poll tax are also fraudulent.. Unless you are willing to claim that it is a tax to get welfare, food stamps and liquor. The only thing that will be required at the polling place is the same thing that is required to get prescription medication. A person who can read an ID and someone with the intelligence to recognize an ID that belongs to an individual and one that is fake. They train foreigners in 7-11's to do this.

 

[g5000]

Now where was I?

Oh yeah.

Fact: US citizens in good standing have been disenfranchised by Voter ID laws.

Fact: No case of voter fraud in more than 200 years of elections could only have been prevented or caught by Voter ID.

 

[Political Junky]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/226699-holders-racial-incitement.html

"In 1988, President Ronald Reagan appointed Holder to serve as a judge of the Superior Court of the District of Columbia.[11]"

Eric Holder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Darkwind]

Fact: US citizens in good standing have been disenfranchised by Voter ID laws. ((False)) Prove it.

Fact: No case of voter fraud in more than 200 years of elections could only have been prevented or caught by Voter ID. ((False)) Prove it.

This means we have evidence Voter ID causes harm and does not serve any useful purpose. You have an incorrect opinion with zero evidence.

Therefore, whatever bongwater says we need Voter ID should not be drunk. If you cannot cite a case of fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID, then the real motives behind Voter ID are obviously something else. Don't be a sucker. too late, you appear to be one already.

The Right used to be all about freedom and our rights and the Constitution. Is this just lip service now? Yes, it is. The UnRight is spewing complete bullshit and demanding a further impediment be placed in front of our Constitutional right to vote. We still are. And about the right to keep you from stealing shit.

Wake up. Stop being an idiot in the face of the FACTS and continually demonstrating your stupidity.

Wake up. There is no down side to requiring people to prove they are who they are.

 

[g5000]

Fact: US citizens in good standing have been disenfranchised by Voter ID laws.

((False)) Prove it.

Already did. Read the topic.

Fact: No case of voter fraud in more than 200 years of elections could only have been prevented or caught by Voter ID.

((False)) Prove it.

I have been asking for months and months for someone to provide a case of fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

No one has.

No one.

Not one of you.

You Voter ID morons are demanding a new law that is not needed. Prove it is needed. How can you dare to claim to be a conservative when you are asking for a new law that is not needed? I thought that is what liberals do.

This means we have evidence Voter ID causes harm and does not serve any useful purpose.

You have an incorrect opinion with zero evidence.

Wrong. I posted evidence of people harmed by Voter ID laws above.

Read the topic before making an ass of yourself.

The Right used to be all about freedom and our rights and the Constitution. Is this just lip service now? Yes, it is. The UnRight is spewing complete bullshit and demanding a further impediment be placed in front of our Constitutional right to vote.

We still are. And about the right to keep you from stealing shit.

What am I stealing? The only theft that has occured has been the theft of your brain. I am a conservative from way back who is pissed at the morons who currently dominate the conversation.

Wake up. Stop being an idiot in the face of the FACTS and continually demonstrating your stupidity.

Wake up. There is no down side to requiring people to prove they are who they are.

As I have shown, US citizens in good standing have been harmed by these laws. Do you clamp your hands over your eyes when you come across that stuff? It is the only explanation I can think of.

You cannot prove we need this law, or you would.

Therefore, it is a law in search of a problem.

Prove that we need it. Not some imaginary scenario in your mind. An actual case where only Voter ID would catch or prevent the fraud which could not be caught or prevented by the existing system being properly managed.

 

[Darkwind]

Fact: US citizens in good standing have been disenfranchised by Voter ID laws. ((False)) Prove it.

Already did. Read the topic.





I have been asking for months and months for someone to provide a case of fraud which could only have been caught or prevented by Voter ID.

No one has.

No one.

Not one of you.

You Voter ID morons are demanding a new law that is not needed. Prove it is needed. How can you dare to claim to be a conservative when you are asking for a new law that is not needed? I thought that is what liberals do.





Wrong. I posted evidence of people harmed by Voter ID laws above.

Read the topic before making an ass of yourself.

What am I stealing? I am a conservative from way back who is pissed at the morons who currently dominate the conversation.





As I have shown, US citizens in good standing have been harmed by these laws. Do you clamp your hands over your eyes when you come across that stuff? It is the only explanation I can think of.

You cannot prove we need this law, or you would.

Therefore, it is a law in search of a problem.

Prove that we need it. Not some imaginary scenario in your mind. An actual case where only Voter ID would catch or prevent the fraud which could not be caught or prevented by the existing system being properly managed.

You have NOT shown that US citizens in good standing have been harmed by these laws. Do you spout bullshit whenever you fell like it and expect that you won't be challenged? The proof of the law is all over the internet, if you have the courage to take your hands off of your eyes and go look for it.

Google the proof you want and this time, actually go look at the proof.

I'll tell you what. You will find more cases of voter fraud than you will ever find of a woman being denied contraceptives.

 

[Darkwind]

There are very few things that actually piss Me off. One of them is some mother ****** wanting to negate the power of My vote with Goddamned bullshit ideology spoon fed to him because the brain dead mother ****** can't think for himself.

A two ******* second google search yeilds 20 million hits of which, here are three....

Two of them are NOT conservative links.

Conservative watchdog group questions counties with too many voters - Houston Chronicle

Pew study: 1 in 8 voter records flawed

Study: 1.8 Million Dead People Still Registered To Vote : NPR

A two ******* second search and there are 29 million hits....

 

[g5000]

You have NOT shown that US citizens in good standing have been harmed by these laws.

Wow. You really are actually blind.

Okay. Here it is again. Do NOT clamp your hands over your eyes!

Two Wisconsin state courts have declared Wisconsin’s Voter ID law unconstitutional under the state constitution. Moreover, as one of the two judges to do so pointed out, the law already disenfranchised voters during the short time it is in effect — including a Marine veteran and a 84 year-old former elected official. Yesterday, it also appears to have disenfranchised one more elderly voter, despite the fact that the law is supposed to be suspended due to the multiple court decisions against it:


It took persistence – and a second trip to her Waukesha polling place – by a 63-year-old Waukesha woman to vote Tuesday. But she said her 87-year-old mother who couldn’t make the trip back was disenfranchised by a poll worker who asked to see a photo ID.

Wisconsin’s new voter ID law was in place for the February primary but not for Tuesday’s general election after a judge ruled it was unconstitutional. The photo ID requirement is on hold while the matter is appealed

. . . .

The woman said she and her mother had moved to Waukesha last May and registered to vote at Waukesha City Hall in January. They went to their Waukesha West High School poll Tuesday but were asked to show identification – which her mother hadn’t brought with her. Her own driver’s license had an out-of-date address on it, she said.

“We were listed on their friggin’ poll list,” she said, “and yet we had our names highlighted.” The poll worker said maybe they didn’t register in time, though they clearly had.

As a new Center for American Progress Report points out, elderly voters are frequently the victims of Voter ID laws. A short list of older voters who have been kept from the polls by these laws include Paul Carroll, a 86-year-old World War II veteran from Ohio; Dorothy Cooper, a 96-year-old African-American woman from Tennessee, and Thelma Mitchell a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years.

Yesterday, however, probably marks the first time an elderly voter was disenfranchised by a voter ID law that isn’t even supposed to be in effect.

87 Year-Old Voter Claims She Was Disenfranchised By Voter ID Despite Court Decision Striking It Down | ThinkProgress

Do you spout bullshit whenever you fell like it and expect that you won't be challenged? The proof of the law is all over the internet, if you have the courage to take your hands off of your eyes and go look for it.

Then it should be a piece of cake for you to provide it. Prove the law is needed.

You can't.

You will find more cases of voter fraud than you will ever find of a woman being denied contraceptives.

Wow. Who brought up contraceptives? That is really weird!

I am going to use small words for you.

I am not saying there has never been voter fraud. There most certainly has.

What I am saying is that no one, not even you, can provide evidence of voter fraud which could only be prevented or caught by Voter ID and not by the system currently in place.

So go for it, tiger. Show me a case of voter fraud which can only be stopped by Voter ID and nothing which is already in place.

Prove we need Voter ID.

 

[Darkwind]

You have NOT shown that US citizens in good standing have been harmed by these laws.

Wow. You really are actually blind.

Okay. Here it is again. Do NOT clamp your hands over your eyes!

Two Wisconsin state courts have declared Wisconsin’s Voter ID law unconstitutional under the state constitution. Moreover, as one of the two judges to do so pointed out, the law already disenfranchised voters during the short time it is in effect — including a Marine veteran and a 84 year-old former elected official. Yesterday, it also appears to have disenfranchised one more elderly voter, despite the fact that the law is supposed to be suspended due to the multiple court decisions against it:


It took persistence – and a second trip to her Waukesha polling place – by a 63-year-old Waukesha woman to vote Tuesday. But she said her 87-year-old mother who couldn’t make the trip back was disenfranchised by a poll worker who asked to see a photo ID.

Wisconsin’s new voter ID law was in place for the February primary but not for Tuesday’s general election after a judge ruled it was unconstitutional. The photo ID requirement is on hold while the matter is appealed

. . . .

The woman said she and her mother had moved to Waukesha last May and registered to vote at Waukesha City Hall in January. They went to their Waukesha West High School poll Tuesday but were asked to show identification – which her mother hadn’t brought with her. Her own driver’s license had an out-of-date address on it, she said.

“We were listed on their friggin’ poll list,” she said, “and yet we had our names highlighted.” The poll worker said maybe they didn’t register in time, though they clearly had.

As a new Center for American Progress Report points out, elderly voters are frequently the victims of Voter ID laws. A short list of older voters who have been kept from the polls by these laws include Paul Carroll, a 86-year-old World War II veteran from Ohio; Dorothy Cooper, a 96-year-old African-American woman from Tennessee, and Thelma Mitchell a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years.

Yesterday, however, probably marks the first time an elderly voter was disenfranchised by a voter ID law that isn’t even supposed to be in effect.

87 Year-Old Voter Claims She Was Disenfranchised By Voter ID Despite Court Decision Striking It Down | ThinkProgress

Do you spout bullshit whenever you fell like it and expect that you won't be challenged? The proof of the law is all over the internet, if you have the courage to take your hands off of your eyes and go look for it.

Then it should be a piece of cake for you to provide it. Prove the law is needed.

You can't.

You will find more cases of voter fraud than you will ever find of a woman being denied contraceptives.

Wow. Who brought up contraceptives? That is really weird!

I am going to use small words for you.

I am not saying there has never been voter fraud. There most certainly has.

What I am saying is that no one, not even you, can provide evidence of voter fraud which could only be prevented or caught by Voter ID and not by the system currently in place.

So go for it, tiger. Show me a case of voter fraud which can only be stopped by Voter ID and nothing which is already in place.

Prove we need Voter ID.

Unable to make the connection? I'm not surprised.

 

[Darkwind]

Your proof is a Wisconsin judge taking the side of an 87 year old woman? Are you ******* kidding ME?

Wow.....good bye you poor piece of shit.

 

[g5000]

Fact: US citizens in good standing have been disenfranchised by Voter ID laws.

Portage County veteran, 86, doesn't vote after VA identification card rejected at polls

A Portage County World War II veteran was turned away from a polling place this morning because his driver’s license had expired in January and his new Veterans Affairs ID did not include his home address.

“My beef is that I had to pay a driver to take me up there because I don’t walk so well and have to use this cane and now I can’t even vote,” said Paul Carroll, 86, who has lived in Aurora nearly 40 years, running his own business, Carroll Tire, until 1975.

“I had to stop driving, but I got the photo ID from the Veterans Affairs instead, just a month or so ago. You would think that would count for something. I went to war for this country, but now I can’t vote in this country.”

 

[g5000]

Your proof is a Wisconsin judge taking the side of an 87 year old woman? Are you ******* kidding ME?

Wow.....good bye you poor piece of shit.

So you DO clamp your hand over your eyes and run away! I even bolded the relevant stuff so you wouldn't have to exert your brain.


I knew it.

 

[g5000]

Unable to make the connection? I'm not surprised.

See? Not one of you has ever been able to prove the need. I tole ya!

 

[Peach]

Your proof is a Wisconsin judge taking the side of an 87 year old woman? Are you ******* kidding ME?

Wow.....good bye you poor piece of shit.

AND a Veteran Wind.