The Fable of the siege.

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

That would have been true prior to the '67 War and certainly not true after March '79.

There is a border, you just need a bigger glasses to spot it.

And by the way, making it international or national terrorism is still what it is, illegal.
Good luck next time!

That is the armistice line between Israeli and Egyptian forces.

Is is specifically not the be a political or territorial border.

(COMMENT)

Today, your interpretation is entirely false. The treaty changed that.

Article II

The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.

SOURCE: The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt and the Government of the State of Israel

This is a common mistake. Since 1979, the Armistice Lines between Egypt and Israel have been dissolved in favor of Treaty Boundaries.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Daniyel]

Oslo was a declaration of principles that expired without reaching an agreement.

You don't like what other people have to say so you stomp your foot and shine like small child that does not get his way. Through each thread and each post and every point you refuse a rational, factual explanation.

Oh my, insults.

You must be out of bullets.

You don't like what other people have to say so you stomp your foot and shine like small child that does not get his way. Through each thread and each post and every point you refuse a rational, factual explanation.

"shine like small child" there's a nice turn of words

"Through each thread and each post and every point you refuse a H̶a̶s̶b̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶b̶i̶t̶e̶ rational, factual explanation".

For your information suckers, IDF captured the majority of weapons bought with your donations from Hamas and co. and you're also American taxpayers I believe, so basically we can't run out of bullets before you do
I got you a Friends of IDF T-Shirt!

 

[fanger]

I already got the "**** Israel" t-shirt, people seem to like it
really it was a T-shirt with the map of 'so called' Israel on it I got a friend to print in big letters **** over the top, people love it

 

[Daniyel]

I already got the "**** Israel" t-shirt, people seem to like it

More ISIS friend requests on Facebook? oh wait you boycott Israel.
More ISIS followers on Tweeter? at least someone likes you!

 

[fanger]

I don't have a facebook account, is facebook israeli?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I already got the "**** Israel" t-shirt, people seem to like it
really it was a T-shirt with the map of 'so called' Israel on it I got a friend to print in big letters **** over the top, people love it

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

That would have been true prior to the '67 War and certainly not true after March '79.

There is a border, you just need a bigger glasses to spot it.

And by the way, making it international or national terrorism is still what it is, illegal.
Good luck next time!

That is the armistice line between Israeli and Egyptian forces.

Is is specifically not the be a political or territorial border.

(COMMENT)

Today, your interpretation is entirely false. The treaty changed that.

Article II

The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.

SOURCE: The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt and the Government of the State of Israel

This is a common mistake. Since 1979, the Armistice Lines between Egypt and Israel have been dissolved in favor of Treaty Boundaries.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, does that mean that Gaza is Egypt, Israel, or Palestine?

It is interesting that Israel claims a border on land that the UN and Palestine call Palestine.

 

[Indeependent]

P F Tinmore, et al,

That would have been true prior to the '67 War and certainly not true after March '79.

That is the armistice line between Israeli and Egyptian forces.

Is is specifically not the be a political or territorial border.

(COMMENT)

Today, your interpretation is entirely false. The treaty changed that.

Article II

The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.

SOURCE: The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt and the Government of the State of Israel

This is a common mistake. Since 1979, the Armistice Lines between Egypt and Israel have been dissolved in favor of Treaty Boundaries.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, does that mean that Gaza is Egypt, Israel, or Palestine?

It is interesting that Israel claims a border on land that the UN and Palestine call Palestine.

Who gives a shit if they don't dig tunnels under anybody else's land.

 

[Daniyel]

The name Palestrina is the original name Past Israel and Cna'an not Palestine, and the Palestinians are the same as Rocco always call them - Hostile Arabs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The name Palestrina is the original name Past Israel and Cna'an not Palestine, and the Palestinians are the same as Rocco always call them - Hostile Arabs.

Indeed they are hostile toward the occupation and have every right to be.

Israel can end the hostilities by ending the occupation.

The ball is in Israel's court.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

Interesting question.

At the time of the treaty, the Gaza Strip, Occupied.

P F Tinmore, et al,

That would have been true prior to the '67 War and certainly not true after March '79.

That is the armistice line between Israeli and Egyptian forces.

Is is specifically not the be a political or territorial border.

(COMMENT)

Today, your interpretation is entirely false. The treaty changed that.

Article II

The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.

SOURCE: The Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt and the Government of the State of Israel

This is a common mistake. Since 1979, the Armistice Lines between Egypt and Israel have been dissolved in favor of Treaty Boundaries.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, does that mean that Gaza is Egypt, Israel, or Palestine?

It is interesting that Israel claims a border on land that the UN and Palestine call Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Gaza was not Egypt.

Egypt occupied the territory under the former Mandate until 1967.​

Gaza was not Israel.

In 1967, the Gaza Strip was re-Occupied by Israel.​

Gaza was not Palestinian.

In 1967, there was no State of Palestine.​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

Interesting question.

At the time of the treaty, the Gaza Strip, Occupied.

P F Tinmore, et al,

That would have been true prior to the '67 War and certainly not true after March '79.


(COMMENT)

Today, your interpretation is entirely false. The treaty changed that.



This is a common mistake. Since 1979, the Armistice Lines between Egypt and Israel have been dissolved in favor of Treaty Boundaries.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, does that mean that Gaza is Egypt, Israel, or Palestine?

It is interesting that Israel claims a border on land that the UN and Palestine call Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Gaza was not Egypt.

Egypt occupied the territory under the former Mandate until 1967.​

Gaza was not Israel.

In 1967, the Gaza Strip was re-Occupied by Israel.​

Gaza was not Palestinian.

In 1967, there was no State of Palestine.​

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but either way it is called occupied Palestinian territory. How can you have occupied Palestinian territory if there is no Palestine?

Also, Israel claims that it does not occupy the West Bank because it was never a state. Then what state was Gaza when it was occupied by Egypt and Israel? Then again, what state was the West Bank (also called occupied Palestinian territory) when it was occupied by Jordan?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

Time changes all things.

P F Tinmore; et al,

Interesting question.

At the time of the treaty, the Gaza Strip, Occupied.

So, does that mean that Gaza is Egypt, Israel, or Palestine?

It is interesting that Israel claims a border on land that the UN and Palestine call Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Gaza was not Egypt.

Egypt occupied the territory under the former Mandate until 1967.​

Gaza was not Israel.

In 1967, the Gaza Strip was re-Occupied by Israel.​

Gaza was not Palestinian.

In 1967, there was no State of Palestine.​

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but either way it is called occupied Palestinian territory. How can you have occupied Palestinian territory if there is no Palestine?

Also, Israel claims that it does not occupy the West Bank because it was never a state. Then what state was Gaza when it was occupied by Egypt and Israel? Then again, what state was the West Bank (also called occupied Palestinian territory) when it was occupied by Jordan?

(COMMENT)

The "Question of Palestine" - as Palestine was defined in the very beginning by The Palestine Order in Council (10 August 1922), referred to "the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine" (Article I). The meaning did not change until 15 December 1988, when the UN decided "the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" (Para 3, A/RES/43/177) after the Palestine Liberation Organization declared independence in November, 1988 (Annex III - A/43/827 S/20278). This was "reaffirmed in the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;" as expressed in December 2012. (A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012)

Please Note: "Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;" wherein the UN recognizes that the "right of self-determination" was exercised while under "occupation."​

Israel occupied Sovereign Jordanian Territory in 1967. In 1948, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan secured and occupied the West Bank; a military outcome of the 1948 War of Independence for Israel. During the period 11 - thru 25 April, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented and a political move was made to unite the East and West Banks under Jordanian Annexation. This was known as the "Unification of the Two Banks." The West Bank became sovereign Jordanian until it severed legal and administrative ties with the West Bank in July 1988. This was known as the "Disengagement from the West Bank."

Similarly, the Gaza Strip was Occupied in 1948 by the Army of United Arab Republic (Egypt). During the war the All-Palestine Government (APG) was declared in Gaza by the Arab League - declaring independence, and a Palestinian with its Capital in Gaza City. It was actually an incorporated client state of Egypt until 1959, when it was officially merged with the government of Egypt and the APG was annulled. In 1962 the Egyptian government established a Palestinian Legislative Council, the members of which were locally elected under Egyptian supervision. This remained in place until 1964 and the emergence of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) which established a new authority over the Gaza Strip; but still under the sovereign protection of Egypt. In 1967, Israel occupied the Egyptian controlled Gaza Strip.

Thus - in 1967 - at the conclusion of the Arab-Israeli War, the Gaza Strip was "occupied Egyptian territory" and the West Bank was "occupied Jordanian territory." This remained the status quo until:

• Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979 ; "without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip."
• Treaty of Peace between the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the State of Israel 26 October 1994; "without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967."
  
  I call your attention to the language used in the Treaties relative to what we call today, the "occupied Palestinian territories."
  
  • In the case of the Treaty with Egypt, which was signed a decade BEFORE the PLO Declaration of Independence, the Gaza Strip was simply called the "Gaza Strip."
  • In the case of the Treaty with Egypt, which happened some years AFTER the PLO Declaration of Independence, the West Bank was called "territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967."

The territories occupied by Israel as a result of armed conflicts in 1948 (Israeli War of Independence), 1967 (Egyptian terminate the presence of the United Nations Emergency Force on the territory of the United Arab Republic and Gaza Strip), and 1973 (Yom Kipper), included the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.

I hope this answers your question.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco, you said:

This was "reaffirmed in the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967;" as expressed in December 2012.

Then you said:

Thus - in 1967 - at the conclusion of the Arab-Israeli War, the Gaza Strip was "occupied Egyptian territory" and the West Bank was "occupied Jordanian territory."

How did it go from Palestinian territory to Egyptian and Jordanian occupied Palestinian territory, (there was no war between Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine) and then to Egyptian and Jordanian territory. Then to Israeli occupied Egyptian and Jordanian territory. Then to Israeli occupied Palestinian territory?

You are confused.

 

[RoccoR]

P F TINMORE, et al,

I'm not confused at all.

In 1948, the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt; the All Palestine Government (APG) was the client state administrator (a merged element of the Egyptian Military Administration) for Egypt, back by Egyptian Occupation Forces. This remained so until 1959 when the President of Egypt annulled the APG and the Occupation was transferred to the Egyptian Military Constabulary (Military Governorship). This remained the status quo until the Egyptian forces were pushed-out by the advance of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) in 1967.

As the IDF advanced over the Egyptian Occupation, and control was established, Israel assumed responsibility over the territory formerly occupied by the Egyptians.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

They could have shipped by air.

Oops, Israel bombed the airport.

They could have shipped by sea.

Oops, Israel bombed the port.

Any other suggestions?

Yes organise the relief trucks to take the goods out to another airport or port facility and have them picked up from there. Are you that stupid that you don't know about the many thousands of empty trucks that leave gaza every week to go to pick up more supplies. Or is it a case of you don't want the world to see that gaza could be self sufficient and would then cut of all aid.

 

[Phoenall]

Farmers can't farm. Fishermen can't fish. Almost all of the factories are closed because of the siege. Nothing can be exported.

Where should they invest?

They seem to do alright with their illegal smuggling enterprises that bring in cars, plasma TV's, washing machines, cookers etc. Then the hamas tunnels that bring in weapons, rockets, anti tank missiles, SAM missiles, GRAD rockets and such like. Imagine if hamas put even half the effort into peaceful enterprise as they do to violence and terrorism, gaza would be the Jewel in the crown. Only problem would be the total lack of aid from the west

 

[Phoenall]

And this is as 'funny' as the OP...

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and....

Still remains in total control of the area....

The dictionary may have a definition of the word "Siege" but so does international law... Go check out what that says about an occupying state laying siege to the country it occupies.

For the rest, I'm not even going to waste my time responding to... It's utter trash... Similar trash is also written by supporters of the other side too...

If this was not such a serious subject I would not be able to stop laughing!

According to CUSTOMARY INTERNATIONAL LAW and hamas Israel is not occupying gaza, it is only the RABID ANTI SEMITIC UN that is saying gaza is occupied. So maybe you should go and see what the Geneva conventions have to say about occupation as opposed to blockade for the purpose of halting terrorism.

 

[Phoenall]

Rocco, you said:


Then you said:

How did it go from Palestinian territory to Egyptian and Jordanian occupied Palestinian territory, (there was no war between Egypt, Jordan, and Palestine) and then to Egyptian and Jordanian territory. Then to Israeli occupied Egyptian and Jordanian territory. Then to Israeli occupied Palestinian territory?

You are confused.

The arab armies invaded the land with the intention of wiping out the Jews and stealing their land. They were beaten back and lost the war so they took the land destined for the Palestinian state as their own. This was illegal under the terms of the mandate, the UN charter and International law. By doing so they removed the right of the arab muslims to free determination and the right to form a nation. The west bank were offered the chance to become Jordanian citizens and took it up, only to try and take all of Jordan as a Palestinian terrorist state leading to the massacre of Palestinians in the refugee camps and the withdrawal of Jordanian citizenship from of all Palestinians In the meantime the arab nations had decided to have another go at destroying Israel and massacring all the Jews which led to a war ending in Israel occupying the land.

Did mot need a war between Jordan or Egypt with the Palestinians, just the fact that they took land that was not theirs and settled it, while at the same time refusing to allow the Palestinians the right to declare a state

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F TINMORE, et al,

I'm not confused at all.

In 1948, the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt; the All Palestine Government (APG) was the client state administrator (a merged element of the Egyptian Military Administration) for Egypt, back by Egyptian Occupation Forces. This remained so until 1959 when the President of Egypt annulled the APG and the Occupation was transferred to the Egyptian Military Constabulary (Military Governorship). This remained the status quo until the Egyptian forces were pushed-out by the advance of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) in 1967.

As the IDF advanced over the Egyptian Occupation, and control was established, Israel assumed responsibility over the territory formerly occupied by the Egyptians.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but how did that negate the Palestinian's inalienable rights?