The Fable of the siege.

[montelatici]

P F TINMORE, et al,

I'm not confused at all.

In 1948, the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt; the All Palestine Government (APG) was the client state administrator (a merged element of the Egyptian Military Administration) for Egypt, back by Egyptian Occupation Forces. This remained so until 1959 when the President of Egypt annulled the APG and the Occupation was transferred to the Egyptian Military Constabulary (Military Governorship). This remained the status quo until the Egyptian forces were pushed-out by the advance of the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) in 1967.

As the IDF advanced over the Egyptian Occupation, and control was established, Israel assumed responsibility over the territory formerly occupied by the Egyptians.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but how did that negate the Palestinian's inalienable rights?

It didn't as you well know, it was the Palestinians themselves that negated their own inalienable rights when they were not allowed to form a state under the control of the occupying powers of Egypt and Jordan. Nothing to do with the Jews, Zionist or Israelis and all to do with the arab nationalists

As you well know, and try to hide behind the Jewish propaganda, it negated the rights of the Palestinians left in the territory illegally assigned to the Europeans. The gerrymandering of the border to facilitate a slight European Jew majority (about 53%) in the territory assigned to the Europeans was a clear negation of the Christian's and Muslim's rights to self-determination on their own land. While unsuccessful, the non-Jews and their allies were simply attempting to prevent re-colonization on the part of other Europeans when the British left.

 

[Daniyel]

Hello again,

Here in would like to share a very interesting article to all the people thinking that removing the blockade could bring peace
Israel Hayom | The fable of the Gaza siege

The fable of the Gaza siege
By Uri Heitner.

According to the reports out of Cairo, one of the main issues in the negotiations, maybe the biggest one, is Hamas' demand to remove the Israeli blockade on Gaza. The Palestinian narrative of the "siege" has taken roots in the public consciousness, to the point where we have also fallen into the trap. Is Gaza really under a siege?

The "siege" narrative was born after Israel's disengagement from Gaza in the summer of 2005 to replace the Palestinian narrative of "occupation," as an excuse for terrorism against Israel. After the withdrawal from Gaza, when the settlements were uprooted and every last trace of every last Jew eradicated, the Palestinians couldn't cling to their claim of "occupation." So ever since they have painted Gaza as an area under a "brutal siege."



Is this a siege? This is how the dictionary defines "siege": "The act or process of surrounding and attacking a fortified place in such a way as to isolate it from help and supplies, for the purpose of lessening the resistance of the defenders and thereby making capture possible." Does this bear any resemblance to the reality on the Gaza border?

Moreover, Israel does not even have the ability to keep Gaza under siege, because Gaza shares a border with Egypt. The Gazans and the Egyptians belong to the same people. Thousands of rockets have not been fired at Egypt from Gaza. Siege? Let Egypt open its Gaza border crossings.

The whole siege story is nothing more than a fable made up to sway world opinion against Israel.

Israel evacuated all Israeli towns in Gaza, negotiated, all under fire even when there was no blockade, under Fatah (Abbas) rule and under Hamas rule, now you seriously expect us to break the law and remove the blockade putting all the southern Israelis as Human Shields?

It is alleged, Israel officially left Gaza on November 8, 2005. However, they still maintained control over the airspace and territorial waters. So how is that leaving?

Furthermore, during the month of December 2005, there were:

9 incidents of rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel.​

And during that same period, there were:

42 incidents of Israeli attacks, arrests and extra-judicial killings.​

Israel did not forbid any air traffic in Gaza air space, and did not forbid any sea traffic in Gaza territorial water.
Here some list of terror attacks made in 2005, feel free to relate only to those past the blockade, but keep in mind that the threat of prior attacks and attacks past the blockade only strengthen the necessity of the blockade.

Spoiler: List of major Terror attacks succeeded and missiles.

Jan 13, 2005 - Karni Crossing, Gaza
Palestinian terrorists opened fire at Israeli civilians, killing 6 and wounding 5. Hamas and the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade claimed responsibility.
Jan 15, 2005 - SderotA 17 year old girl was mortally wounded by shrapnel from a Kassem rocket and died several days later. She was struck while protecting her younger brother, who was lightly wounded.
Feb 25, 2005 - Tel Aviv
Five people were killed and 50 wounded when a suicide bomber blew himself up outside the Stage Club on the Tel Aviv promenade. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.
Jul 12, 2005 - Netanya
Three people were killed and about 90 wounded when a suicide bomber struck at the Hasharon shopping mall. Two other people later succumbed to their wounds. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Jul 14, 2005 - Netiv Ha'asara
A woman was killed by a Kassam rocket fired from the Gaza Strip. Hamas, the Islamic Jihad and Fatah all claimed responsibility.
Jul 23, 2005 - Kissufim CrossingA married couple was killed in a terrorist attack. The Islamic Jihad and the Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility.
Oct 16, 2005 - Gush Etzion Junction, south of Jerusalem
Three people were killed and three were wounded in a Palestinian shooting attack. A teenager was shot and seriously wounded further north. The Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility.
Oct 26, 2005 - Hadera
Five people were killed and 55 were wounded, six seriously (one person later died of her wounds) in a suicide bombing at the Hadera open-air market. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Dec 5, 2005 - Netanya
Five people were killed and over 50 were wounded in a suicide bombing at the entrance to the Hasharon shopping mall. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Dec 16, 2005 - Hebron hills
One person was killed while driving home and two passengers were wounded in a shooting attack. The Islamic Jihad and Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility.
-- Rockets --
2005[edit]
574 mortar shells and 286 Qassam rockets were fired at Israel in 2005. These caused 6 deaths and 68 were injured.[1]

January 5, 2005
Nissim Arbiv, 26, of Nissanit, was severely injured by a mortar shell in the Erez industrial zone. He died from his injuries ten days later.[4][dead link]
January 15, 2005
A Qassam rocket attack on Sderot left Ayala Abukasis, 17, brain dead. Ayala was struck while attempting to shield her 11-year-old brother, who suffered minor injuries. She died on January 21.[citation needed]
February 9, 2005
A barrage of 25 to 50 Qassam rockets and mortar shells hit Neve Dekalim settlement, and another barrage hit at noon. Hamas said it was in retaliation for an attack in which one Palestinian was killed near an Israeli settlement.[5]
June 7, 2005
Two Palestinian workers, Salah Ayash Imran, 57, Muhammed Mahmoud Jaroun, and a foreign worker Bi Shude, 46, were killed, and five other workers were wounded, when a Qassam rocket hit a packing shed in Ganei Tal, in the Gaza Strip. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.[6]
July 14, 2005
Dana Galkowicz, 22, was killed in a Qassam attack in Kibbutz Netiv Ha'asara, just north of the Gaza Strip. Hamas, Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine and Fatah all claimed responsibility for the attack.[7]
August 25, 2005
Two Qassam rockets fired out of the Gaza Strip by Palestinian militants landed near the southern Israeli town of Sderot.[8][9]
September 12, 2005
Several hours after Israel withdraws the last of its troops from the Gaza Strip two Qassam rockets are fired by Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip. The first lands near theIsraeli town of Sderot, while the second lands near Kibbutz Yad Mordechai.[10][11]
September 24, 2005
Five Israelis were injured when Palestinian militants launched about 30 rockets on Israeli communities from the Gaza Strip. This attack followed an incident the previous day, in which 20 Palestinians, including 16 civilians, were killed when a vehicle carrying Qassam rockets exploded during a Hamas rally in Jabalya. The exact circumstances surrounding the incident are still unknown. To date, no evidence has been found to substantiate Hamas’ claim that Israeli interference was responsible for the accident.[12]
December 11, 2005
A rocket fired from Jenin in the West Bank landed near Ram-On. It was the first Palestinian rocket attack from the West Bank.[13][14]
December 14, 2005
Jitladda Tap-arsa, 20, a female Thai national, was killed by a mortar while working in a greenhouse in the Gush Katif settlement of Ganei Tal.[4][dead link]
December 26, 2005
A Qassam rocket landed near a kindergarten during a Hanukkah party at kibbutz Sa'ad.[15]

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel did not forbid any air traffic in Gaza air space, and did not forbid any sea traffic in Gaza territorial water.

Then why can't they have an airport and why can't they fish without getting shot at?

Here some list of terror attacks made in 2005, feel free to relate only to those past the blockade, but keep in mind that the threat of prior attacks and attacks past the blockade only strengthen the necessity of the blockade.

The reason for the blockade was to punish the Pals for voting in Hamas, not because of any rocket attacks.

I'm only going to deal with attacks after Israel "allegedly" left Gaza.

You want to start on December 5, 2005...

Dec 5, 2005 - Netanya
Five people were killed and over 50 were wounded in a suicide bombing at the entrance to the Hasharon shopping mall. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

...I'll start on December 2, 2005.

Dec 2, 2005
Two armed Palestinian members of Saraya Al-Quds, the armed wing of Islamic Jihad, were killed and a third seriously wounded when an Israeli aircraft fired two missiles at their car in the northern Gaza Strip, security sources reported.

Conclusion: Israel shot first.

You want to show what happened on December 16, 2005...

Dec 16, 2005 - Hebron hills
One person was killed while driving home and two passengers were wounded in a shooting attack. The Islamic Jihad and Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility.

... I'll show what happened on December 15, 2005.

Dec 15, 2005
IDF troops had shot and killed a Palestinian mother and her armed 20-year-old son near Nablus, witnesses said. (AP)

Israeli police scuffled with Hamas members and raided a Hamas office in East Jerusalem that Israel believed was being used for election-related activities. Police detained six people, including Mohammed Abu Tir, a Hamas candidate

Conclusion: Israel shot first.


You want to show what happened on December 26, 2005...

December 26, 2005
A Qassam rocket landed near a kindergarten during a Hanukkah party at kibbutz Sa'ad.[15]

... I'll show you what happened on December 23, 2005.

Israeli soldiers shot dead a 13-year-old Palestinian boy near Ramallah, an army spokeswoman said. The initial report indicated that soldiers had opened fire in the direction of two children building a stone barrier across the road. The army opened an investigation.

Conclusion: Israel shot first.

I can do this all day!

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I apologize Paul, I almost missed this.

OK, but how did that negate the Palestinian's inalienable rights?

(COMMENT)

The "inalienable rights" of the Palestinian were not negated by Israel.

The Arab Palestinians (while under the influence of the Arab League) exercised their "right to self-determination" by rejecting participation and the plan. This Arab Rejection did not truncate or obstruct the Jewish people from exercising their "right to self-determination." The Plan clearly stated "either." It did not require acceptance by "both."

F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS
When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

I know that many pro-Palestinian discussion participants point to the Cable of 28 September, 1948, from the All Palestine Government (APG), as if it had some significants. However, the Jewish Agency had already establish the State of Israel using the UN Steps Preparatory to Independence in accordance with the Partition Plan. The Arab Higher Committee Delegation had already declined with threats in telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January 1948, as amplified further in the communication of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh, Representative of the Arab Higher Committee (AHC).

• 
  “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”

The APG was not affiliated with the AHC. The AHC as reconstituted in 1945, was an action arm of the Arab League. The APG was under the guidance and protection of the Egyptian Government (an external influence and interference).

If anyone circumvented of denied the Arab Palestinian their rights, it would have been the Egyptians or the Greater Arab League; but not Israel. Israel was following the Plan under the guidance of the UN Palestine Commission.

14. The Commission shall be guided in its activities by the recommendations of the General Assembly and by such instructions as the Security Council may consider necessary to issue.

The measures taken by the Commission, within the recommendations of the General Assembly, shall become immediately effective unless the Commission has previously received contrary instructions from the Security Council.

The Commission shall render periodic monthly progress reports, or more frequently if desirable, to the Security Council.​

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you saying that "sympathetic consideration" is a legal term.

Israel lied about the partition as it had violate the major tenets before its declaration. The UN did nothing to implement resolution 181.

You forget that the Palestinians also violated the major tenets before its implementation and had been doing so since the mandate first came into force.=

like what?

The UN were never tasked with implementing 181 if you bother to read it, it was all down to the parties involved. This was the Jews and the arab muslims and at no time was the UN to be involved in the implementation of 181.

Indeed, it was the British, as the administration of Palestine, who had that responsibility. They refused to do so because it was not approved by both sides.

 

[docmauser1]

As you well know, and try to hide behind the Jewish propaganda, it negated the rights of the Palestinians left in the territory illegally assigned to the Europeans. The gerrymandering of the border to facilitate a slight European Jew majority (about 53%) in the territory assigned to the Europeans was a clear negation of the Christian's and Muslim's rights to self-determination on their own land. While unsuccessful, the non-Jews and their allies were simply attempting to prevent re-colonization on the part of other Europeans when the British left.

Drivelaggio.

 

[docmauser1]

42 incidents of Israeli attacks, arrests and extra-judicial killings.

If palistanians can't police their own, as in the case of lunatics, running the asylum, someone will, eventually, do it for them, of course.

 

[docmauser1]

Indeed, it was the British, as the administration of Palestine, who had that responsibility. They refused to do so because it was not approved by both sides.

Drivel.

 

[Billo_Really]

If palistanians can't police their own, as in the case of lunatics, running the asylum, someone will, eventually, do it for them, of course.

How can they possibly do that, when you keep killing their cops?

 

[flacaltenn]

P F Tinmore; et al,

Interesting question.

At the time of the treaty, the Gaza Strip, Occupied.

P F Tinmore, et al,

That would have been true prior to the '67 War and certainly not true after March '79.


(COMMENT)

Today, your interpretation is entirely false. The treaty changed that.



This is a common mistake. Since 1979, the Armistice Lines between Egypt and Israel have been dissolved in favor of Treaty Boundaries.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, does that mean that Gaza is Egypt, Israel, or Palestine?

It is interesting that Israel claims a border on land that the UN and Palestine call Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Gaza was not Egypt.

Egypt occupied the territory under the former Mandate until 1967.​

Gaza was not Israel.

In 1967, the Gaza Strip was re-Occupied by Israel.​

Gaza was not Palestinian.

In 1967, there was no State of Palestine.​

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but either way it is called occupied Palestinian territory. How can you have occupied Palestinian territory if there is no Palestine?

Also, Israel claims that it does not occupy the West Bank because it was never a state. Then what state was Gaza when it was occupied by Egypt and Israel? Then again, what state was the West Bank (also called occupied Palestinian territory) when it was occupied by Jordan?

For MOST of the time it was occupied by Jordan -- The West Bank was FULLY INCORPORATED into Jordan. Had seats in the Parliarment and recieved $Bills in infrastructure. Jordan GDP lost about 20% when they lost that land in 1967..

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore; et al,

Interesting question.

At the time of the treaty, the Gaza Strip, Occupied.

P F Tinmore, et al,

That would have been true prior to the '67 War and certainly not true after March '79.


(COMMENT)

Today, your interpretation is entirely false. The treaty changed that.



This is a common mistake. Since 1979, the Armistice Lines between Egypt and Israel have been dissolved in favor of Treaty Boundaries.

Most Respectfully,
R

So, does that mean that Gaza is Egypt, Israel, or Palestine?

It is interesting that Israel claims a border on land that the UN and Palestine call Palestine.

(COMMENT)

Gaza was not Egypt.

Egypt occupied the territory under the former Mandate until 1967.​

Gaza was not Israel.

In 1967, the Gaza Strip was re-Occupied by Israel.​

Gaza was not Palestinian.

In 1967, there was no State of Palestine.​

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but either way it is called occupied Palestinian territory. How can you have occupied Palestinian territory if there is no Palestine?

Also, Israel claims that it does not occupy the West Bank because it was never a state. Then what state was Gaza when it was occupied by Egypt and Israel? Then again, what state was the West Bank (also called occupied Palestinian territory) when it was occupied by Jordan?

For MOST of the time it was occupied by Jordan -- The West Bank was FULLY INCORPORATED into Jordan. Had seats in the Parliarment and recieved $Bills in infrastructure. Jordan GDP lost about 20% when they lost that land in 1967..

That was de-facto. It is illegal to annex territory that you occupy. It was still occupied Palestinian territory.

 

[flacaltenn]

Israel did not forbid any air traffic in Gaza air space, and did not forbid any sea traffic in Gaza territorial water.

Then why can't they have an airport and why can't they fish without getting shot at?

Here some list of terror attacks made in 2005, feel free to relate only to those past the blockade, but keep in mind that the threat of prior attacks and attacks past the blockade only strengthen the necessity of the blockade.

The reason for the blockade was to punish the Pals for voting in Hamas, not because of any rocket attacks.

I'm only going to deal with attacks after Israel "allegedly" left Gaza.

You want to start on December 5, 2005...

Dec 5, 2005 - Netanya
Five people were killed and over 50 were wounded in a suicide bombing at the entrance to the Hasharon shopping mall. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

...I'll start on December 2, 2005.

Dec 2, 2005
Two armed Palestinian members of Saraya Al-Quds, the armed wing of Islamic Jihad, were killed and a third seriously wounded when an Israeli aircraft fired two missiles at their car in the northern Gaza Strip, security sources reported.

Conclusion: Israel shot first.

You want to show what happened on December 16, 2005...

Dec 16, 2005 - Hebron hills
One person was killed while driving home and two passengers were wounded in a shooting attack. The Islamic Jihad and Fatah al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades claimed responsibility.

... I'll show what happened on December 15, 2005.

Dec 15, 2005
IDF troops had shot and killed a Palestinian mother and her armed 20-year-old son near Nablus, witnesses said. (AP)

Israeli police scuffled with Hamas members and raided a Hamas office in East Jerusalem that Israel believed was being used for election-related activities. Police detained six people, including Mohammed Abu Tir, a Hamas candidate

Conclusion: Israel shot first.


You want to show what happened on December 26, 2005...

December 26, 2005
A Qassam rocket landed near a kindergarten during a Hanukkah party at kibbutz Sa'ad.[15]

... I'll show you what happened on December 23, 2005.

Israeli soldiers shot dead a 13-year-old Palestinian boy near Ramallah, an army spokeswoman said. The initial report indicated that soldiers had opened fire in the direction of two children building a stone barrier across the road. The army opened an investigation.

Conclusion: Israel shot first.

I can do this all day!

Why cant' they have an airport and fish? They CAN.. They just need a RESPONSIBLE govt to proceed on normalization and diplomacy with the rest of the world and their neighbors. That transition to normal trade and souvereignty only lasted about a year before the Hamas moved in and then PURGED the previously recognized partner in peace.

Besides, Gaza is in NO WAY occupied by Israel. It's called a BLOCKADE for economic sanctions. All Gaza has to do is clear customs through the neighboring Israeli port. And work out an agreement with Egypt to RESPONSIBLY provide a compliant customs inspection regime open to international scrutiny.

The US right now has virtual Blockades on about 20 countries. And we enforce that without "occupying" an inch of property.

 

[flacaltenn]

For MOST of the time it was occupied by Jordan -- The West Bank was FULLY INCORPORATED into Jordan. Had seats in the Parliarment and recieved $Bills in infrastructure. Jordan GDP lost about 20% when they lost that land in 1967..

That was de-facto. It is illegal to annex territory that you occupy. It was still occupied Palestinian territory.

That's NOT what the residents of West Bank experienced as FULL CITIZENS of Jordan. It's only "occupied Palestinian territory" during those years in your mind. You can assert that and hold your breath, but it won't change the flag that flew over the West Bank or the relative PROSPERITY and PEACE that reigned in West Bank during those years.

 

[P F Tinmore]

For MOST of the time it was occupied by Jordan -- The West Bank was FULLY INCORPORATED into Jordan. Had seats in the Parliarment and recieved $Bills in infrastructure. Jordan GDP lost about 20% when they lost that land in 1967..

That was de-facto. It is illegal to annex territory that you occupy. It was still occupied Palestinian territory.

That's NOT what the residents of West Bank experienced as FULL CITIZENS of Jordan. It's only "occupied Palestinian territory" during those years in your mind. You can assert that and hold your breath, but it won't change the flag that flew over the West Bank or the relative PROSPERITY and PEACE that reigned in West Bank during those years.

Jordan formally annexed the West Bank on April 24, 1950. The annexation was regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. It was recognized only by Britain, Iraq and Pakistan.

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[flacaltenn]

For MOST of the time it was occupied by Jordan -- The West Bank was FULLY INCORPORATED into Jordan. Had seats in the Parliarment and recieved $Bills in infrastructure. Jordan GDP lost about 20% when they lost that land in 1967..

That was de-facto. It is illegal to annex territory that you occupy. It was still occupied Palestinian territory.

That's NOT what the residents of West Bank experienced as FULL CITIZENS of Jordan. It's only "occupied Palestinian territory" during those years in your mind. You can assert that and hold your breath, but it won't change the flag that flew over the West Bank or the relative PROSPERITY and PEACE that reigned in West Bank during those years.

Jordan formally annexed the West Bank on April 24, 1950. The annexation was regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. It was recognized only by Britain, Iraq and Pakistan.

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We've been in this rabbit hole before. It WAS tacitly approved by the US and I've posted the State Dept notes. You don't NEED to have formal recognition of an annexation. A nod and a wink will do..

Who complained?? Besides a nasty letter from the Arab League with some weak ass token acknowledgement of Palestine..

What does this have to do with the CURRENT status of the West Bank? The Palis got BOOTED from Jordan after their attacks on Amman and the King blissfully GAVE the West Bank to Israel and walked away from ANY Palestinian issue. That's the important moral to that story. Ask the King what HE thinks about the ability of the Palestinians to deal responsibly and diplomatically with their neighbors..

 

[P F Tinmore]

For MOST of the time it was occupied by Jordan -- The West Bank was FULLY INCORPORATED into Jordan. Had seats in the Parliarment and recieved $Bills in infrastructure. Jordan GDP lost about 20% when they lost that land in 1967..

That was de-facto. It is illegal to annex territory that you occupy. It was still occupied Palestinian territory.

That's NOT what the residents of West Bank experienced as FULL CITIZENS of Jordan. It's only "occupied Palestinian territory" during those years in your mind. You can assert that and hold your breath, but it won't change the flag that flew over the West Bank or the relative PROSPERITY and PEACE that reigned in West Bank during those years.

Jordan formally annexed the West Bank on April 24, 1950. The annexation was regarded as illegal and void by the Arab League and others. It was recognized only by Britain, Iraq and Pakistan.

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

We've been in this rabbit hole before. It WAS tacitly approved by the US and I've posted the State Dept notes. You don't NEED to have formal recognition of an annexation. A nod and a wink will do..

Who complained?? Besides a nasty letter from the Arab League with some weak ass token acknowledgement of Palestine..

What does this have to do with the CURRENT status of the West Bank? The Palis got BOOTED from Jordan after their attacks on Amman and the King blissfully GAVE the West Bank to Israel and walked away from ANY Palestinian issue. That's the important moral to that story. Ask the King what HE thinks about the ability of the Palestinians to deal responsibly and diplomatically with their neighbors..

The world calls the West Bank occupied Palestinian territory. The Palestinians call it Palestine. (part of Palestine) The UN calls it the state of Palestine.

I know that Israel does its best to confuse everyone and most people take their lies at face value without digging up the truth.

So, how can Jordan give Jordanian land to Israel and it is Palestine?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh come now! If anyone is twisting the time line and trying to confuse people it is you.

The world calls the West Bank occupied Palestinian territory. The Palestinians call it Palestine. (part of Palestine) The UN calls it the state of Palestine.

I know that Israel does its best to confuse everyone and most people take their lies at face value without digging up the truth.

So, how can Jordan give Jordanian land to Israel and it is Palestine?

(COMMENT)

The UN calls it the State of Palestine after December 1988.

The Palestinians call everything Palestine.

Israel is not hiding any truth, the timeline is what it is. It is always the Palestinians trying to confuse the issue.

Jordan did not give anything to Israel.

The correct timeline has been drawn for you may times. You are just trying to make a case that is unsupported by the evidence.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

Why cant' they have an airport and fish? They CAN.. They just need a RESPONSIBLE govt to proceed on normalization and diplomacy with the rest of the world and their neighbors.

Whatever government the Pals choose to have, is none of yours, or Israel's, business! You don't decide who others choose as their leaders. Got it?

That transition to normal trade and souvereignty only lasted about a year before the Hamas moved in and then PURGED the previously recognized partner in peace.

Why do you keep insisting on telling that lie? Hamas won a fair and democratic election. That's a little different than "moving in".

Besides, Gaza is in NO WAY occupied by Israel.

Israel has "effective control" of everything that goes into (and out of) Gaza. That is an "occupation". You do not have to have a physical presence in an area to be considered an occupation. How can one possibly control an area he has left? He can't and they haven't!

The existence of the occupation, is not a debatable issue, so knock that shit off!

It's called a BLOCKADE for economic sanctions. All Gaza has to do is clear customs through the neighboring Israeli port. And work out an agreement with Egypt to RESPONSIBLY provide a compliant customs inspection regime open to international scrutiny.

Bullshit! All Israel has to do, is obey the law and stop committing crimes against humanity.

The US right now has virtual Blockades on about 20 countries. And we enforce that without "occupying" an inch of property.

You obviously don't know "occupational law".

 

[docmauser1]

How can they possibly do that, when you keep killing their cops?

Ah, a hamass thug, but in a uniform.

 

[docmauser1]

You obviously don't know "occupational law".

Au contraire! It's practiced by palistanians and is widely known - pull jewish tiger by its tail, get bitten in the arse, cry bloody murder in the UN, repeat. It's called the palistanian occupation.

 

[Crystalclear]

Whatever government the Pals choose to have, is none of yours, or Israel's, business! You don't decide who others choose as their leaders. Got it?

It is Israel's business if the elected government in Gaza wants to wipe out Israel and push all Jews into the sea.

Why do you keep insisting on telling that lie? Hamas won a fair and democratic election. That's a little different than "moving in".

They were elected, yes, but after that they just commited a coup and removed all Fatah officials.

Israel has "effective control" of everything that goes into (and out of) Gaza. That is an "occupation". You do not have to have a physical presence in an area to be considered an occupation. How can one possibly control an area he has left? He can't and they haven't!

Israel can't stop the blockade of Gaza with all the terrorists there.

The existence of the occupation, is not a debatable issue, so knock that shit off!

A blockade is not equivalent to an occupation. Hamas decides everything that happens in Gaza.

Bullshit! All Israel has to do, is obey the law and stop committing crimes against humanity.

Maybe Hamas should just stop firing rockets.