the evolution of biological shape

[progressive hunter]

No we're not. We're talking about what happened afterwards.



No, a mouse is mus musculus. Something else is something else.



Why change when you can build from scratch?

They make new life forms from DNA cassettes.

I keep telling you, evolution is biophysics. Molecular gradients. Quantum tunneling.

All these things are real. You'd have to willfully deny their existence.

And now that AI is in the game, it's only a matter of time till we can map and predict collective behavior..

You should check out my thread on centrioles. Those things self assemble, because of a tiny little chiral asymmetry. Ultimately it is less important than we make a human being, and more important that we understand the biophysics of self assembly.

yeah you guys always run from that,,,

what youre talking about is just breeding and acclimation,,
what you guys are doing is forcing the long term effects of that,,
so it doesnt really mean anything more than a dog breeder,,

but you do you,, just dont equate it to evolution,,

 

[scruffy]

yeah you guys always run from that,,,

what youre talking about is just breeding and acclimation,,
what you guys are doing is forcing the long term effects of that,,
so it doesnt really mean anything more than a dog breeder,,

but you do you,, just dont equate it to evolution,,

Why not?

Same thing.

It's just that no one's going to wait a million years for a human when they can have a dog in three generations.

 

[progressive hunter]

Why not?

Same thing.

It's just that no one's going to wait a million years for a human when they can have a dog in three generations.

not even close,,
and isnt that why you said we arent talking about that before,,

if they are the same thing then you wouldnt have dismissed what I said,,

evolution claims one completely different kind of animal turned into another,,

all youre doing is working within the same animal and not really doing anything of substance since it accurse naturally over time,,

 

[Libby von H]

These are "phases" of matter. There are multiple equilibrium states.

No,false, when Na and Cl join they lose "some"of the properites they had when independent.
And you are at least 200 years out of date in your discussion of body plan, Bauplan , especially since you completely leave out Aristotle's right observations about homology

 

[scruffy]

not even close,,
and isnt that why you said we arent talking about that before,,

if they are the same thing then you wouldnt have dismissed what I said,,

evolution claims one completely different kind of animal turned into another,,

No. You're making too many assumptions.

How about, there's only one life form, that just happens to take on different shapes.

Do you realize there are some single celled amoebas that have more DNA than we do?

all youre doing is working within the same animal and not really doing anything of substance since it accurse naturally over time,,

Why do you insist that animals are different?

There is a continuum of equilibria and the ones that prosper are the ones that find niches.

 

[progressive hunter]

No. You're making too many assumptions.

How about, there's only one life form, that just happens to take on different shapes.

Do you realize there are some single celled amoebas that have more DNA than we do?



Why do you insist that animals are different?

There is a continuum of equilibria and the ones that prosper are the ones that find niches.

I didnt make any assumptions,,

thats the whole point,, everything evolution claims is based on assumptions,,

you think change within a species is evolution and its not,,

are you saying a whale is the same animal as a cow??

animals are different than other animals,,

 

[scruffy]

I didnt make any assumptions,,

thats the whole point,, everything evolution claims is based on assumptions,,

you think change within a species is evolution and its not,,

Yes, it is.

Because you miss my basic point.

Evolution is BIOPHYSICS

Not "the shapes of things" or the way they look.

Evolution has very little to do with the way things look.

are you saying a whale is the same animal as a cow??

I'm saying your definition (assumption) of LIFE is faulty.

Life does not partition itself according to shape.

There's only one form of life, it comes from the basic symmetries of the universe.

animals are different than other animals,,

Says you.

The basic wiring pattern of the brain hasn't changed since GOLDFISH. It, like other things needed for biological function, is highly conserved during evolution.

 

[progressive hunter]

Yes, it is.

Because you miss my basic point.

Evolution is BIOPHYSICS

Not "the shapes of things" or the way they look.

Evolution has very little to do with the way things look.



I'm saying your definition (assumption) of LIFE is faulty.

Life does not partition itself according to shape.

There's only one form of life, it comes from the basic symmetries of the universe.




Says you.

The basic wiring pattern of the brain hasn't changed since GOLDFISH. It, like other things needed for biological function, is highly conserved during evolution.

thats the glory of being human,,

you are free to think whatever you want no matter how crazy you look saying it out loud,,

and dude you look like a class A nutjob,,

 

[scruffy]

thats the glory of being human,,

you are free to think whatever you want no matter how crazy you look saying it out loud,,

and dude you look like a class A nutjob,,

Meh... I've been called worse.

However you will learn, that Scruffy is always right. Always. Scruffy has an unblemished track record on science in general, and biology in particular.

Scruffy had already designed an AI self-attention transformer in the late 70's, 30 years before Google scientists supposedly invented one - the technology that is now being used to design libraries of molecules for evolution experiments.

The other thing is, Scruffy always tells the truth. Even if it's hard to swallow.

There is only one form of life, it's called LIFE. The variations in DNA coding are just a skin, just a piece of clothing like a sweater or a pair of jeans.

Study my post on centrioles. THAT Is evolution. It has very little to go with DNA. It has a lot more to do with molecules that self assemble into functional structures - which they do spontaneously, without God's help.

 

[Libby von H]

I have to laugh at the person who said "These are "phases" of matter. There are multiple equilibrium states." and then denies that any animal has an esscence. Then how do you know these are phases of the same thing !!!
How do you know they are states of the same thing ????

Unless ice, water, and steam are the same thing they are --- this is so obvious but poster needs to hear it l--- unless they are the same thing THEY ARE DIFFERENT so don't talk about X developing into Y if neither of them is a set thing, an essence, a species. They don't flip over like an odometer.

Of the current ACK 200 dog breeds are they all like 69.34% turned into the next species and some point all dogs will by orchestration turn into something else. SILLY

 

[scruffy]

I have to laugh at the person who said "These are "phases" of matter. There are multiple equilibrium states." and then denies that any animal has an esscence. Then how do you know these are phases of the same thing !!!

Srsly?

When is H2O anything but H2O?

You seem to suffer from the same problem PH has, you don't understand basic science.

Why is the same molecule a gas at one temperature but a liquid at another?

What is the force that keeps the liquid "together", so it doesn't bubble and evaporate like a gas?

What do the H2O Molecules actually look like, when they're all lined up in an ice crystal? Do they look any different in that form, than in a liquid or gaseous form?

None of you wanna-be scientists understand the first thing about collective behavior. You should learn. Study the Ising model, which has to do with the alignments of magnetic fields, and the conversion of one phase of matter into another when it happens.

Did you know H2O is paramagnetic? So is the oxygen atom itself. What go you think happens when you put a bunch of little magnets together in a liquid medium? Do you think some of the poles might find each other and align? Just because the magnetic force is stronger than the van der waals force?

How do you know they are states of the same thing ????

Did you ever see anything but water in a glass of water? Goldfish? Kool Aid?

Unless ice, water, and steam are the same thing they are --- this is so obvious but poster needs to hear it l--- unless they are the same thing THEY ARE DIFFERENT so don't talk about X developing into Y if neither of them is a set thing, an essence, a species. They don't flip over like an odometer.

Oh but they do. That's exactly how it happens. See my thread about the mushrooms, it's proof.

Of the current ACK 200 dog breeds are they all like 69.34% turned into the next species and some point all dogs will by orchestration turn into something else. SILLY

Dogs have a niche. People take them to doggie parks, they dont want to take monsters, just dogs. If there were any need for dogs to be monsters people would breed monsters instead.

 

[scruffy]

https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringourfluidearth/chemical/chemistry-and-seawater/ionic-compounds