the ethics of octuplets....

[strollingbones]

i have no clue if she has insurance...

The national cost of pre-term births is about $26 billion a year. The average hospital stay for a preemie is 49 days at a cost of about $50,000.
And prematurity is the number one cause of death in the first month of life.

Video:  Fact Finder: Micro Preemies | NBC13.com

 

[Ravi]

It's time we as a society put a stop to this. Limit the number of embryos that can be implanted, for the good of the children.

What if no one wants them (heck, would you take the risk that insanity runs in her family?)?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Do you propose a eugenic solution if insanity runs in this woman's family? Who are we to decide how many embryos are to be implanted in a given woman? Either we let the woman store the embryos, (which she could not afford) or we let her terminate them (which she could not ethically choose).

Can you see the ethical issues in this situation are bigger than one woman or one families experience?

 

[Ravi]

Do you propose a eugenic solution if insanity runs in this woman's family? Who are we to decide how many embryos are to be implanted in a given woman? Either we let the woman store the embryos, (which she could not afford) or we let her terminate them (which she could not ethically choose).

Can you see the ethical issues in this situation are bigger than one woman or one families experience?

I think you are misunderstanding my posts.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Do you propose a eugenic solution if insanity runs in this woman's family? Who are we to decide how many embryos are to be implanted in a given woman? Either we let the woman store the embryos, (which she could not afford) or we let her terminate them (which she could not ethically choose).

Can you see the ethical issues in this situation are bigger than one woman or one families experience?

I think you are misunderstanding my posts.

"What if no one wants them (heck, would you take the risk that insanity runs in her family?)" Posted by Ravi

It may be possible I don't understand the meaning of this post. Nonetheless, I am raising a question about whether we, as a free society take a chance allowing people to bear children when mental illness runs in that family.

Do we sterilize those who have mental retardation or mental illness in their bloodlines?

 

[Ravi]

Do you propose a eugenic solution if insanity runs in this woman's family? Who are we to decide how many embryos are to be implanted in a given woman? Either we let the woman store the embryos, (which she could not afford) or we let her terminate them (which she could not ethically choose).

Can you see the ethical issues in this situation are bigger than one woman or one families experience?

I think you are misunderstanding my posts.

"What if no one wants them (heck, would you take the risk that insanity runs in her family?)" Posted by Ravi

It may be possible I don't understand the meaning of this post. Nonetheless, I am raising a question about whether we take a chance on children born to a family where insanity is a medical condition in that family.

Sheila pointed out that she could have allowed someone else to use the eggs. If I were in that situation I would do my best to find out the history of the egg and sperm donor and decide I'd rather go a different route.

So that leaves the eggs in limbo and hence my question. If no one will take them and she won't agree to destroy them what becomes of the eggs?

 

[Sky Dancer]

What becomes of the embryos is a good question. Lets's leave the 'right to life' moralizers to answer that one.

Even if there was a law prohibiting no more than three embryos being implanted at the same time, each embryo could split and become 3 sets of twins or six children.

 

[Ravi]

I've no desire to see any such laws. If every other woman in the country starts having eight kids when she gets pregnant then we can address the problem. Making laws because something happens on rare occasions is extremely retarded.

 

[Againsheila]

Do you propose a eugenic solution if insanity runs in this woman's family? Who are we to decide how many embryos are to be implanted in a given woman? Either we let the woman store the embryos, (which she could not afford) or we let her terminate them (which she could not ethically choose).

Can you see the ethical issues in this situation are bigger than one woman or one families experience?

I think you are misunderstanding my posts.

"What if no one wants them (heck, would you take the risk that insanity runs in her family?)" Posted by Ravi

It may be possible I don't understand the meaning of this post. Nonetheless, I am raising a question about whether we, as a free society take a chance allowing people to bear children when mental illness runs in that family.

Do we sterilize those who have mental retardation or mental illness in their bloodlines?

Forget sterilization, do we allow them to have 14 kids through IVF???

Should we as a society allow someone to be implanted with numerous embryos when we KNOW that at least some of the children will be born with birthdefects?

Do you believe one woman alone can care for 14 kids, 8 of them infants, and do it well?

I'm not concerned with her passing her mental health onto her children, I am concerned with her having children KNOWING that at least some will end up with special needs. She's not going to live forever, who's going to care for her special needs kids when she's gone?

And yes, my youngest son is being taken care of on the taxpayer's dollar. I am, however, starting the paperwork to ensure that he will have someone to watch over him even after we are gone and we are going to start a trust fund that will provide him with anything that disability and medicaid won't pay for. Now, I did not put this burden on the taxpayer on purpose. This woman IS putting the burden on the taxpayer on purpose.

 

[Sky Dancer]

What about women who are addicted to drugs? Should we make drug addicted women sterile?

This may be the first case i've ever heard of a woman being addicted to birthing children. Why doesn't she just go into the surrogacy business?

 

[Againsheila]

I've no desire to see any such laws. If every other woman in the country starts having eight kids when she gets pregnant then we can address the problem. Making laws because something happens on rare occasions is extremely retarded.

And how many of those 8 kids will be "retarded"?

My concern is, and always has been for the kids FIRST.

 

[Ravi]

What about women who are addicted to drugs? Should we make drug addicted women sterile?

This may be the first case i've ever heard of a woman being addicted to birthing children. Why doesn't she just go into the surrogacy business?

No, of course not. Who is asking for this to happen? People that have mental issues need mental help.

Have you ever heard of munchausen's by proxy? People can get "addicted" to the strangest things.

Do you honestly believe that someone that has no partner, gets pregnant repeatedly, and births fourteen children does not have a mental problem?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I think you are misunderstanding my posts.

"What if no one wants them (heck, would you take the risk that insanity runs in her family?)" Posted by Ravi

It may be possible I don't understand the meaning of this post. Nonetheless, I am raising a question about whether we, as a free society take a chance allowing people to bear children when mental illness runs in that family.

Do we sterilize those who have mental retardation or mental illness in their bloodlines?

Forget sterilization, do we allow them to have 14 kids through IVF???

Should we as a society allow someone to be implanted with numerous embryos when we KNOW that at least some of the children will be born with birthdefects?

Do you believe one woman alone can care for 14 kids, 8 of them infants, and do it well?
I'm not concerned with her passing her mental health onto her children, I am concerned with her having children KNOWING that at least some will end up with special needs. She's not going to live forever, who's going to care for her special needs kids when she's gone?

And yes, my youngest son is being taken care of on the taxpayer's dollar. I am, however, starting the paperwork to ensure that he will have someone to watch over him even after we are gone and we are going to start a trust fund that will provide him with anything that disability and medicaid won't pay for. Now, I did not put this burden on the taxpayer on purpose. This woman IS putting the burden on the taxpayer on purpose.

Mental illness is a burden to taxpayers. We can either pay for it one way or the other. Either we let people like this woman have treatment or we let them do crazy things, like give birth to 14 children with no visible means of caring for them.

If this woman is mentally ill, then it's not clear that she is putting a burden on taxpayers on purpose. That idea presumes that she thinks clearly. That presumption appears to the contrary. This woman seems to behave compulsively, and not in her best interests or the interests of her children.

I hope you aren't saying that taxpayers should not help you with your special needs son. How we care for the vulnerable in our society tells us a great deal about our values.

What makes you think this woman is mentally organized? What concerns me more is a doctor who would implants eight embryos in a woman who already has six children.

Why aren't we more concerned about the damn doctor's actions?

 

[Sky Dancer]

What about women who are addicted to drugs? Should we make drug addicted women sterile?

This may be the first case i've ever heard of a woman being addicted to birthing children. Why doesn't she just go into the surrogacy business?

No, of course not. Who is asking for this to happen? People that have mental issues need mental help.

Have you ever heard of munchausen's by proxy? People can get "addicted" to the strangest things.

Do you honestly believe that someone that has no partner, gets pregnant repeatedly, and births fourteen children does not have a mental problem?

I think this woman has a mental problem. My question is, what is our response, as a society?

Do we sterilize women with mental problems? Do we only implant women with embryos who have passed a mental fitness for parenting test?

Can we make a mental fitness for parenting test a requirement for all the so-called 'normals' in our society? (jk)

There are tax payers out there who don't give a shit about mental illness and who do not want to pay for it out of tax dollars. One way or another, we pay, directly or indirectly. My point is how do we put more consciousness into the problem when a woman like this is clearly unable to herself.

 

[Anguille]

Either we let the woman store the embryos, (which she could not afford) or we let her terminate them (which she could not ethically choose).

Why couldn't she ethically choose to terminate them? Why couldn't the lab dispose of them as they liked if she stopped paying storage fees? She had her un fertilized eggs removed from her body, they were mixed with sperm in a petrie dish at which point conception occurred, in other words , they became embryos totally independent of her body. I don't think they are hers in the same way embryos in a woman's womb are part of that woman's body.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Either we let the woman store the embryos, (which she could not afford) or we let her terminate them (which she could not ethically choose).

Why couldn't she ethically choose to terminate them? Why couldn't the lab dispose of them as they liked if she stooped paying storage fees? She had her un fertilized eggs removed from her body, they were mixed with sperm in a petrie dish at which point conception occurred, in other words , they became embryos totally independent of her body. I don't think they are hers in the same way embryos in a woman's womb are part of that woman's body.

Tell that story to the right to life moralizers. They think that 'sperm are people too'.

 

[Care4all]

i need to clear something up that i mispoke on.... the woman that had 7 recently was in india not the usa...the woman that had 7 in the usa was back in 1998 i think the article i just read, said.... another woman had 8, but one died so she ended with 7, others around the world have had 6 at once as well...

then there are the near 60 year old women delivering now a days too...

 

[Ravi]

What about women who are addicted to drugs? Should we make drug addicted women sterile?

This may be the first case i've ever heard of a woman being addicted to birthing children. Why doesn't she just go into the surrogacy business?

No, of course not. Who is asking for this to happen? People that have mental issues need mental help.

Have you ever heard of munchausen's by proxy? People can get "addicted" to the strangest things.

Do you honestly believe that someone that has no partner, gets pregnant repeatedly, and births fourteen children does not have a mental problem?

I think this woman has a mental problem. My question is, what is our response, as a society?

Beyond wondering if mental health care is covered? Nothing.

 

[Angel Heart]

Just for their birth weights they will qualify for Social Security checks for each of the children for their first year. Longer if there are lasting disabilities.