Why do Christianity and Islam proselytise?

[Diuretic]

This question occurred to me in this thread - http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/68247-the-truth-about-judaism.html - but I didn't want to throw it off topic.

I've been given several good reasons why Judaism doesn't proselytise. Fisty in that thread made the point that it wasn't the Abrahamic nature of Judaism (which it shares with Christianity and Islam) which has anything to do one way or the other with proselytising. But Christianity and Islam have proselytising as major parts of their doctrines. Why is that?

 

[Avatar4321]

From what Ive read in Jewish tradition, Abraham did proselyte quite a bit.

God doesnt call people and ordain them to sit on their ass praising how good they are since they were called of God. He calls them so that they can lift up the rest of the human raise. Not because they are any better, but because they are willing to work.

 

[Diuretic]

I think we've established that Judaism isn't a proselytising religion. I was asking the question because I wanted to know what it is in Christianity and islam that makes proselytising so important.

 

[AllieBaba]

Well Christians are supposed to spread the word. The more people hear it, the more people can potentially make it to heaven.

 

[Diuretic]

Okay Allie (or anyone) but where does it come from? Did Jesus order it or was it the organised church a bit later?

And what about Islam? Again, anyone who knows, I'd be grateful to know.

 

[AllieBaba]

It comes from the NT.
I have no idea about Islam.

"Sharing the gospel
There are two main ways that we share our faith and the gospel. Through our life and through our
words.

Matthew 5:16 says let your light shine before men. That is a witness through our lives as
we live the Christian life and walk the Christian walk.
o 1 Thessalonians 2:8: Through Relationships

Matthew 10:32 also says to confess Christ before men."
http://www.calvarylm.org/photos/Photo65Min1.pdf

 

[Diuretic]

So it was after Jesus. Thanks Allie.

 

[AllieBaba]

From Matthew:

"Follow me and I will teach you to catch men!"
"Men do not light a lamp and put it under a bucket. They put it on a lamp-stand and it gives light for everybody in the house."

5:16 - "Let your light shine like that in the sight of men. Let them see the good things you do and praise your Father in Heaven."

And Mark:

Do you really not understand this parable? Then how are you going to understand all the other parables? The man who sows, sows the message. As for those who are by the roadside where the message is sown, as soon as they hear it Satan comes at once and takes away what has been sown in their minds. Similarly, the seed sown among the rocks represents those who hear the message without hesitation and accept it joyfully. But they have no real roots and do not last - when trouble or persecution arises because of the message, they give up their faith at once. Then there are the seeds which were sown among thorn-bushes. These are the people who hear the message, but the worries of this world and the false glamour of riches and all sorts of other ambitions creep in and choke the life out of what they have heard, and it produces no crop in their lives. As for the seed sown on good soil, this means the men who hear the message and accept it and do produce a crop - thirty, sixty, even a hundred times as much as they received."

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Christians want to save souls, and Muslims want to save explosives.

(Audience Laughter Sign)

 

[Diuretic]

Okay, get the Christian reason for proselytising, it's in the Gospels. I seem to remember also one of the Gospels mentioning that Jesus told Simon Peter he was a "fisher of men" (sic) which indicates the missionary role. But Judaism, of which Jesus was a member, apparently wasn't into proselytising (I note the information from jillian and Fisty that Jews, due to persecution that goes back even before Jesus, don't try and sign people up).

But why would Jesus exhort Simon Peter and the Apostles to get out there and sign up as many recruits as they could get? Look I understand that if someone believes that they've got something that can save people's souls that....wait a minute, wait a minute.

In the other thread there was a post by jillian about the nature of the soul in Judaism. I remember thinking it was interesting but very complex indeed.

It's the theology isn't it? Christianty has a different view of people and their spiritual being than does Judaism. Okay I know, blindingly obvious, perhaps to you but I had to think about it before I could see it in front of me.

How about Islam? Is it just about the numbers or is there some sort of exhortation by Allah that recruits are signed up? I mean I suppose it could have been the Prophet who urged it but surely he wouldn't have done so without the authority of Allah whose word is in the Qu'ran?

And just in case anyone thinks that D is being a cranky git, have no fear, this is genuine inquiry. I try not to play fast and loose with people's spiritual beliefs (unless they're trying to choke me with them in which case I fight back) which hasn't happened to me here.

 

[ABikerSailor]

From Matthew:

"Follow me and I will teach you to catch men!"
"Men do not light a lamp and put it under a bucket. They put it on a lamp-stand and it gives light for everybody in the house."

I thought it was "follow Me and I will MAKE YOU FISHERS OF MEN".

(And she says I get the Bible quotes wrong).

 

[Care4all]

fyi

In Christianity

Main articles: Mission (Christian), Evangelism, and Christianization

Mark 8:34 Whosoever will come after me—It seems that Christ formed, on the proselytism of the Jews, the principal qualities which he required in the proselytes of his covenant.

The first condition of proselytism among the Jews was, that he that came to embrace their religion should come voluntarily, and that neither force nor influence should be employed in this business. This is also the first condition required by Jesus Christ, and which he considers as the foundation of all the rest:—If a man be willing to come after me.

The second condition required in the Jewish proselyte was, that he should perfectly renounce all his prejudices, his errors, his idolatry, and every thing that concerned his false religion; and that he should entirely separate himself from his most intimate friends and acquaintances. It was on this ground that the Jews called proselytism a new birth, and proselytes new-born, and new men; and our Lord requires men to be born again, not only of water, but by the Holy Ghost. See John 3:5. All this our Lord includes in this word, Let him renounce himself. To this the following scriptures refer: Matthew 10:33; John 3:3, 5, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The third condition on which a person was admitted into the Jewish Church as a proselyte was, that he should submit to the yoke of the Jewish law, and bear patiently the inconveniences and sufferings with which a profession of the Mosaic religion might be accompanied. Christ requires the same condition; but, instead of the yoke of the law, he brings in his own doctrine, which he calls his yoke, Matthew 11:29: and his cross, the taking up of which not only implies a bold profession of Christ crucified, but also a cheerful submitting to all the sufferings and persecutions to which he might be exposed, and even to death itself.

The fourth condition was, that they should solemnly engage to continue in the Jewish religion, faithful even unto death. This condition Christ also requires; and it is comprised in this word, Let him FOLLOW me. See the following verses; and see, on the subject of proselytism, Ruth 1:16, 17
——Adam Clarke's Commentary, [1]

Proselytism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Diuretic]

Good stuff, thanks Care, got me thinking again. Judaism was the first great monotheistic religion (I know that might not be absolutely accurate because I believe there may have been an older monotheistic religion possibly in Ur or Babylon – I'm not up with this stuff too well) and Jews must have been surrounded by societies which professed religions with pantheons of gods. The idea of one god must have seemed to the pantheists to be quite affronting. So among Jews it was, “okay if you want to we'll bring you in but you have to go through a few things first.” That makes sense to me. So Jews had proselytism lite. Christians gave it the full go by the look.

But on the suffering. It seems to me that Christianity makes much of suffering. I admit my knowledge is shallow but it seems to me that there's an inordinate amount of attention to how suffering is good for people. I've got to work that one out.

 

[Diuretic]

Sunni Man, Isla Fisher, who is the partner of Sacha Baron Cohen ("Borat", Ali G") has converted to Judaism and it took her a long time apparently. He is strongly observant and before they could marry she had to convert but of course it had to be more than a convenient conversion. Reports are that she's quite - how can I put this - an authentic convert to Judaism. I think the quality of the person might be important in conversion to Judaism. No, I'm not casting aspertions anywhere else.

 

[Sunni Man]

Judiasm does almost No proselytising. They are not looking for converts. They only want people who where born Jewish. Hence, Judiasm has grown very slowly due to static birth rates.

Christianity on the other hand, wants all people to embrace Christianity. Proselytism is a central theme in Christianity. Thus it has grown in places all over the world. Saddly, many people have became a Christian, because they listen to a highly charged emotional sermon given by a slick tounged Preacher and their conversion doesn't last very long.


Islam is somewhere between these two extremes.

Da'wah is the arabic word that means "invite" or "summon".

In Islam we "invite" all people to come to Islam, but we do very little proselytising.

We believe that God calls those people whom he wants to join the religion.

So the people who embrace Islam are usually very serious people, who have joined Islam because of an inner calling. Thus most convert Muslims remain true to the religion for the rest of their lives.

 

[Diuretic]

Whoa, what happened there? I thought I saw a post by Sunni Man.

Okay, okay! I'll be good in future!

 

[Diuretic]

Whew it came back......how did that happen?

 

[Sunni Man]

Sunni Man, Isla Fisher, who is the partner of Sacha Baron Cohen ("Borat", Ali G") has converted to Judaism and it took her a long time apparently. He is strongly observant and before they could marry she had to convert but of course it had to be more than a convenient conversion. Reports are that she's quite - how can I put this - an authentic convert to Judaism. I think the quality of the person might be important in conversion to Judaism. No, I'm not casting aspertions anywhere else.

I wasn't saying that people don't convert to Judiasm.

People do, but it is a long and complex process that very few undertake.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

Sunni Man, Isla Fisher, who is the partner of Sacha Baron Cohen ("Borat", Ali G") has converted to Judaism and it took her a long time apparently. He is strongly observant and before they could marry she had to convert but of course it had to be more than a convenient conversion. Reports are that she's quite - how can I put this - an authentic convert to Judaism. I think the quality of the person might be important in conversion to Judaism. No, I'm not casting aspertions anywhere else.

I wasn't saying that people don't convert to Judiasm.

People do, but it is a long and complex process that very few undertake.

And Jews don't seek them out.

 

[Care4all]

Good stuff, thanks Care, got me thinking again. Judaism was the first great monotheistic religion (I know that might not be absolutely accurate because I believe there may have been an older monotheistic religion possibly in Ur or Babylon – I'm not up with this stuff too well) and Jews must have been surrounded by societies which professed religions with pantheons of gods. The idea of one god must have seemed to the pantheists to be quite affronting. So among Jews it was, “okay if you want to we'll bring you in but you have to go through a few things first.” That makes sense to me. So Jews had proselytism lite. Christians gave it the full go by the look.

But on the suffering. It seems to me that Christianity makes much of suffering. I admit my knowledge is shallow but it seems to me that there's an inordinate amount of attention to how suffering is good for people. I've got to work that one out.

this also...

In ancient times, there have been periods (especially the Hellenistic) in which Jews were more favorable to proselytizing than they are today. Some historians believe that one of the major sources of the Early Christian movements were communities of "pagans" who had been attracted to Judaism. However, with the dominance of Christianity and Islam, Jews came to avoid proselytism, since that might incite Christians and Muslims to persecute them.