The electoral college is a disaster for democracy

[Pogo]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

Why?....he won......he now knows why it was created....so zombies, led by their masters in the democrat party couldn't take elections over based on emotional appeals........and concetrations of the uneducated......

No Dippy. The "democrat party" does not exist, and neither did the Democratic Party when the EC was created.

What DID exist was Slave Power.

 

[Dubya Da Last Repug Prez]

We are a constitutional republic that elects representatives. An extent of that republicanism is that our EC elects the presidents. An amendment would have to change the process, and neither party wants such, despite what certain members of those parties may say.

I beg to differ. Since the Democrats have now lost two recent elections due to the idiotic EC, they will definitely want to get rid of it now.

The EC is going nowhere...

It's not going anywhere, but it should go somewhere. The EC is responsible for Bush, who was a disastrous President. And now we may have an even bigger disaster on our hands in Trump.

And not only that, certain states like California are not fairly represented. California contains 30% of this country's population, but is only worth 55 electoral votes. It should be worth a lot more than that, so that's bullshit also. This kind of ridiculous horseshit is the only way Republicans can win presidential elections anymore.

It effectively removes the vote from the People and hands it to the States. That in itself is polarizing, pitting "red" states against "blue" states. We see that manifest on this forum literally every day. There should be no such thing as a "red" or "blue" states. We are not a nation of States but a nation of citizens.

My biggest problem with it though is how it renders up to 49.9% of a given states' votes meaningless. That simply should not happen ever, period.

This is a republic, not a shit eating democracy. You can't always get what you want as the song goes. The EC is there for a reason it gives small states some say In who is the president of the United States. A popular vote would never do that, with the popular vote the large population areas are all that matter.… Fact

I see, so all of you racist Repug goobers can keep camping out in redneck states with 500,000 people and keep stealing elections. Good for you racist *****, bad for the majority that didn't vote for the racist and misogynist Trump.

"Not a shit eating democracy"....LOL, what an unsophisticated Repug goober knuckle-dragger you are.

 

[2aguy]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

Why?....he won......he now knows why it was created....so zombies, led by their masters in the democrat party couldn't take elections over based on emotional appeals........and concetrations of the uneducated......

No Dippy. The "democrat party" does not exist, and neither did the Democratic Party when the EC was created.

What DID exist was Slave Power.

Slaves owned by democrats.

 

[Rustic]

I beg to differ. Since the Democrats have now lost two recent elections due to the idiotic EC, they will definitely want to get rid of it now.

The EC is going nowhere...

It's not going anywhere, but it should go somewhere. The EC is responsible for Bush, who was a disastrous President. And now we may have an even bigger disaster on our hands in Trump.

And not only that, certain states like California are not fairly represented. California contains 30% of this country's population, but is only worth 55 electoral votes. It should be worth a lot more than that, so that's bullshit also. This kind of ridiculous horseshit is the only way Republicans can win presidential elections anymore.

It effectively removes the vote from the People and hands it to the States. That in itself is polarizing, pitting "red" states against "blue" states. We see that manifest on this forum literally every day. There should be no such thing as a "red" or "blue" states. We are not a nation of States but a nation of citizens.

My biggest problem with it though is how it renders up to 49.9% of a given states' votes meaningless. That simply should not happen ever, period.

This is a republic, not a shit eating democracy. You can't always get what you want as the song goes. The EC is there for a reason it gives small states some say In who is the president of the United States. A popular vote would never do that, with the popular vote the large population areas are all that matter.… Fact

I see, so all of you racist Repug goobers can keep camping out in redneck states with 500,000 people and keep stealing elections. Good for you racist *****, bad for the majority that didn't vote for the racist and misogynist Trump.

"Not a shit eating democracy"....LOL, what an unsophisticated Repug goober knuckle-dragger you are.

You should listen to your political correctness, I can't be a racist because I'm a minority... right?

 

[paperview]

What Trump said in 2012 after Obama won:

• "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."
• "We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!"
• “Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.”
  
• "This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!"
• "Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before."
• "Our nation is a once great nation divided!"

When Trump thought Romney initially won the popular vote but lost the EC, Trump said:

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”
“More votes equals a loss … revolution!”

Donald Trump 2012 Election Tweetstorm Resurfaces

 

[Leweman]

I beg to differ. Since the Democrats have now lost two recent elections due to the idiotic EC, they will definitely want to get rid of it now.

The EC is going nowhere...

It's not going anywhere, but it should go somewhere. The EC is responsible for Bush, who was a disastrous President. And now we may have an even bigger disaster on our hands in Trump.

And not only that, certain states like California are not fairly represented. California contains 30% of this country's population, but is only worth 55 electoral votes. It should be worth a lot more than that, so that's bullshit also. This kind of ridiculous horseshit is the only way Republicans can win presidential elections anymore.

It effectively removes the vote from the People and hands it to the States. That in itself is polarizing, pitting "red" states against "blue" states. We see that manifest on this forum literally every day. There should be no such thing as a "red" or "blue" states. We are not a nation of States but a nation of citizens.

My biggest problem with it though is how it renders up to 49.9% of a given states' votes meaningless. That simply should not happen ever, period.

This is a republic, not a shit eating democracy. You can't always get what you want as the song goes. The EC is there for a reason it gives small states some say In who is the president of the United States. A popular vote would never do that, with the popular vote the large population areas are all that matter.… Fact

I see, so all of you racist Repug goobers can keep camping out in redneck states with 500,000 people and keep stealing elections. Good for you racist *****, bad for the majority that didn't vote for the racist and misogynist Trump.

"Not a shit eating democracy"....LOL, what an unsophisticated Repug goober knuckle-dragger you are.

Who cares? Those are the rules. If you don't like the states voting for the President of those states, change it. It's possible ya know.

 

[Pogo]

No, The small states might as will not even vote if we had just a pure popular vote… Fact

And yet you can't prove that point. No one can.
Oh wait, you posted the word "fact". Well, that changes everything donut.

It doesn't matter how many times you post the same absurdity --- it's still the same absurdity. The actual "fact" is a PV would take NO votes from ANYBODY. The EC effectively already does. And as far as "might as well not even vote" that's *exactly* how it does it. Every "blue" vote in a "red" state and every "red" vote in a "blue" state is effectively thrown out. There's just no way around that. If there was, one of you asshats would have thought of it by now.

And it also makes the "red" voters in "red" states and "blue" voters in "blue" states not bother to show up. Because your vote is already decided, whether you agree with it, disagree or have no opinion. Somebody you don't even know is voting FOR you, just as slaveholders voted on behalf of their slaves who had no vote.

What's the point of casting a vote that's already been decided? Do you cast votes in an election where the candidate runs unopposed? When you lose your keys and then find them --- do you go on looking for them?

That's bullshit.

The EC is there for a reason,

Indeed it is, and I just alluded to the big one --- Slave Power.
Whelp ............. this just in, that doesn't exist any more.

Why don't we just bring back "colored" bathrooms while we're at it?

for instance like in the World Series over the whole World Series if they scored the same amount of points but the cubs got there first it's the same way with electoral college the first to 270

That makes no coherent sense whatsoever. The Cubs DID get there first, and the Indians got the bottom of the inning for a chance to catch up.

Voting isn't baseball --- we don't take "red" votes and "blue" votes in separate halves of an inning. I think you're melting down because you know you've lost.

And more people in more states voted for Donald Trump.

Then he should win the election, period. Because you just hit the nail on the head -- "more people voted". Not more "states".

 

[JakeStarkey]

The PV is only part of how a federal constitutional republic. That means geography counts not only demography. Iowa and its uniqueness has every right to representation as does Delaware, California as New York, Montana as Mississippi.

The EC rules, and it always will.

It's not a part of any other.

Representation is already set in Congress via the balance of the House and Senate. That's a given.
But that's representation, not voting.

The EC effectively nullifies votes. There's simply no getting around that. And that discourages voting, and there's no getting around that either. It will "rule" only so long as we the people don't bother to take a look at what it is and what it does. At some point one has to stop and think, '"wait-- why are we doing this again?"

If these murky pretzel-logic ideas about balancing big and little states actually held water, we'd be electing state governors via state EVs to balance big and little counties. Nobody does that, nor should they.

We don't have "Slave Power" any more. They should have been put out to pasture together.

Bull shit. The EV also protects states and regional areas. This will never change.

 

[Rustic]

What Trump said in 2012 after Obama won:

• "The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy."
• "We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!"
• “Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.”
  
• "This election is a total sham and a travesty. We are not a democracy!"
• "Our country is now in serious and unprecedented trouble...like never before."
• "Our nation is a once great nation divided!"

When Trump thought Romney initially won the popular vote but lost the EC, Trump said:

“He lost the popular vote by a lot and won the election. We should have a revolution in this country!”
“More votes equals a loss … revolution!”

Donald Trump 2012 Election Tweetstorm Resurfaces

He finally sees the light… LOL both candidates knew the rules before going in to the election. Hildabeast lost get over it,

 

[Pogo]

The PV is only part of how a federal constitutional republic. That means geography counts not only demography. Iowa and its uniqueness has every right to representation as does Delaware, California as New York, Montana as Mississippi.

The EC rules, and it always will.

It's not a part of any other.

Representation is already set in Congress via the balance of the House and Senate. That's a given.
But that's representation, not voting.

The EC effectively nullifies votes. There's simply no getting around that. And that discourages voting, and there's no getting around that either. It will "rule" only so long as we the people don't bother to take a look at what it is and what it does. At some point one has to stop and think, '"wait-- why are we doing this again?"

If these murky pretzel-logic ideas about balancing big and little states actually held water, we'd be electing state governors via state EVs to balance big and little counties. Nobody does that, nor should they.

We don't have "Slave Power" any more. They should have been put out to pasture together.

Bull shit. The EV also protects states and regional areas. This will never change.

And yet --- no one can explain how.
Ipse dixit will never change either.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The PV is only part of how a federal constitutional republic. That means geography counts not only demography. Iowa and its uniqueness has every right to representation as does Delaware, California as New York, Montana as Mississippi.

The EC rules, and it always will.

It's not a part of any other.

Representation is already set in Congress via the balance of the House and Senate. That's a given.
But that's representation, not voting.

The EC effectively nullifies votes. There's simply no getting around that. And that discourages voting, and there's no getting around that either. It will "rule" only so long as we the people don't bother to take a look at what it is and what it does. At some point one has to stop and think, '"wait-- why are we doing this again?"

If these murky pretzel-logic ideas about balancing big and little states actually held water, we'd be electing state governors via state EVs to balance big and little counties. Nobody does that, nor should they.

We don't have "Slave Power" any more. They should have been put out to pasture together.

Bull shit. The EV also protects states and regional areas. This will never change.

And yet --- no one can explain how.
Ipse dixit will never change either.

Cry about the EC all you want.

 

[Pogo]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

Why?....he won......he now knows why it was created....so zombies, led by their masters in the democrat party couldn't take elections over based on emotional appeals........and concetrations of the uneducated......

No Dippy. The "democrat party" does not exist, and neither did the Democratic Party when the EC was created.

What DID exist was Slave Power.

Slaves owned by democrats.

Nope. "Democrats" didn't even exist yet.
Go look it up. Prove me wrong. Jump in the time machine and see if you can negotiate some date changes.

Or just break down and buy a freaking history book.

Here's a free preview:

>> The Convention had unanimously accepted the principle that representation in the House of Representatives would be in proportion to the relative state populations. However, since slaves could not vote, white leaders in slave states would thus have the benefit of increased representation in the House and the Electoral College. Delegates opposed to slavery proposed that only free inhabitants of each state be counted for apportionment purposes, while delegates supportive of slavery, on the other hand, opposed the proposal, wanting slaves to count in their actual numbers. The compromise that was finally agreed upon—of counting "all other persons" as only three-fifths of their actual numbers—reduced the representation of the slave states relative to the original proposals, but improved it over the Northern position.[2] <<

That's 1787, Skippy. Over forty years before a Democratic Party existed. There were no political parties at all yet.

 

[Pogo]

The PV is only part of how a federal constitutional republic. That means geography counts not only demography. Iowa and its uniqueness has every right to representation as does Delaware, California as New York, Montana as Mississippi.

The EC rules, and it always will.

It's not a part of any other.

Representation is already set in Congress via the balance of the House and Senate. That's a given.
But that's representation, not voting.

The EC effectively nullifies votes. There's simply no getting around that. And that discourages voting, and there's no getting around that either. It will "rule" only so long as we the people don't bother to take a look at what it is and what it does. At some point one has to stop and think, '"wait-- why are we doing this again?"

If these murky pretzel-logic ideas about balancing big and little states actually held water, we'd be electing state governors via state EVs to balance big and little counties. Nobody does that, nor should they.

We don't have "Slave Power" any more. They should have been put out to pasture together.

Bull shit. The EV also protects states and regional areas. This will never change.

And yet --- no one can explain how.
Ipse dixit will never change either.

Cry about the EC all you want.

See what I mean? No one can defend it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

Why?....he won......he now knows why it was created....so zombies, led by their masters in the democrat party couldn't take elections over based on emotional appeals........and concetrations of the uneducated......

No Dippy. The "democrat party" does not exist, and neither did the Democratic Party when the EC was created.

What DID exist was Slave Power.

Slaves owned by democrats.

Nope. "Democrats" didn't even exist yet.
Go look it up. Prove me wrong. Jump in the time machine and see if you can negotiate some date changes.

Or just break down and buy a freaking history book.

The Uber-Conservative slave power existed in 1789 almost forty years before the Democratic Party was organized by Van Buren.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The PV is only part of how a federal constitutional republic. That means geography counts not only demography. Iowa and its uniqueness has every right to representation as does Delaware, California as New York, Montana as Mississippi.

The EC rules, and it always will.

It's not a part of any other.

Representation is already set in Congress via the balance of the House and Senate. That's a given.
But that's representation, not voting.

The EC effectively nullifies votes. There's simply no getting around that. And that discourages voting, and there's no getting around that either. It will "rule" only so long as we the people don't bother to take a look at what it is and what it does. At some point one has to stop and think, '"wait-- why are we doing this again?"

If these murky pretzel-logic ideas about balancing big and little states actually held water, we'd be electing state governors via state EVs to balance big and little counties. Nobody does that, nor should they.

We don't have "Slave Power" any more. They should have been put out to pasture together.

Bull shit. The EV also protects states and regional areas. This will never change.

And yet --- no one can explain how.
Ipse dixit will never change either.

Cry about the EC all you want.

No one has to defend it because you have done not a thing to impeach the idea that we are a constitutional republic.


See what I mean? No one can defend it.

No one has to defend it because you have done not a thing to impeach the idea that we are a constitutional republic.


See what I mean? No one has to defend it.

 

[Rustic]

No, The small states might as will not even vote if we had just a pure popular vote… Fact

And yet you can't prove that point. No one can.
Oh wait, you posted the word "fact". Well, that changes everything donut.

It doesn't matter how many times you post the same absurdity --- it's still the same absurdity. The actual "fact" is a PV would take NO votes from ANYBODY. The EC effectively already does. And as far as "might as well not even vote" that's *exactly* how it does it. Every "blue" vote in a "red" state and every "red" vote in a "blue" state is effectively thrown out. There's just no way around that. If there was, one of you asshats would have thought of it by now.

And it also makes the "red" voters in "red" states and "blue" voters in "blue" states not bother to show up. Because your vote is already decided, whether you agree with it, disagree or have no opinion. Somebody you don't even know is voting FOR you, just as slaveholders voted on behalf of their slaves who had no vote.

What's the point of casting a vote that's already been decided? Do you cast votes in an election where the candidate runs unopposed? When you lose your keys and then find them --- do you go on looking for them?

That's bullshit.

The EC is there for a reason,

Indeed it is, and I just alluded to the big one --- Slave Power.
Whelp ............. this just in, that doesn't exist any more.

Why don't we just bring back "colored" bathrooms while we're at it?

for instance like in the World Series over the whole World Series if they scored the same amount of points but the cubs got there first it's the same way with electoral college the first to 270

That makes no coherent sense whatsoever. The Cubs DID get there first, and the Indians got the bottom of the inning for a chance to catch up.

Voting isn't baseball --- we don't take "red" votes and "blue" votes in separate halves of an inning. I think you're melting down because you know you've lost.

And more people in more states voted for Donald Trump.

Then he should win the election, period. Because you just hit the nail on the head -- "more people voted". Not more "states".

I think you can't see the forest through the trees, more people voted in more states for Donald Trump. This is a republic not a shit eating democracy.
The EC absolutely makes it fair, otherwise every single out election would be determined in the high population Areas. No, I will take the three EC vote for South Dakota over The minuscule popular votes any day. It's much fairer that way...
You obviously don't understand what a republic is… But you do seem to be attached to mob rule

 

[Rustic]

30 states voted for Trump, there is no way California should change the outcome of this election. That's why the EC was made, more people in more states voted for Trump.

 

[Pogo]

It's not a part of any other.

Representation is already set in Congress via the balance of the House and Senate. That's a given.
But that's representation, not voting.

The EC effectively nullifies votes. There's simply no getting around that. And that discourages voting, and there's no getting around that either. It will "rule" only so long as we the people don't bother to take a look at what it is and what it does. At some point one has to stop and think, '"wait-- why are we doing this again?"

If these murky pretzel-logic ideas about balancing big and little states actually held water, we'd be electing state governors via state EVs to balance big and little counties. Nobody does that, nor should they.

We don't have "Slave Power" any more. They should have been put out to pasture together.

Bull shit. The EV also protects states and regional areas. This will never change.

And yet --- no one can explain how.
Ipse dixit will never change either.

Cry about the EC all you want.

No one has to defend it because you have done not a thing to impeach the idea that we are a constitutional republic.


See what I mean? No one can defend it.

No one has to defend it because you have done not a thing to impeach the idea that we are a constitutional republic.


See what I mean? No one has to defend it.

I have no intention of impeaching that we are a constitutional republic. Just the Electoral College.

That passage I just posted with the three-fifths language ----- is part of the Constitution.
Wanna defend that?

 

[Pogo]

No, The small states might as will not even vote if we had just a pure popular vote… Fact

And yet you can't prove that point. No one can.
Oh wait, you posted the word "fact". Well, that changes everything donut.

It doesn't matter how many times you post the same absurdity --- it's still the same absurdity. The actual "fact" is a PV would take NO votes from ANYBODY. The EC effectively already does. And as far as "might as well not even vote" that's *exactly* how it does it. Every "blue" vote in a "red" state and every "red" vote in a "blue" state is effectively thrown out. There's just no way around that. If there was, one of you asshats would have thought of it by now.

And it also makes the "red" voters in "red" states and "blue" voters in "blue" states not bother to show up. Because your vote is already decided, whether you agree with it, disagree or have no opinion. Somebody you don't even know is voting FOR you, just as slaveholders voted on behalf of their slaves who had no vote.

What's the point of casting a vote that's already been decided? Do you cast votes in an election where the candidate runs unopposed? When you lose your keys and then find them --- do you go on looking for them?

That's bullshit.

The EC is there for a reason,

Indeed it is, and I just alluded to the big one --- Slave Power.
Whelp ............. this just in, that doesn't exist any more.

Why don't we just bring back "colored" bathrooms while we're at it?

for instance like in the World Series over the whole World Series if they scored the same amount of points but the cubs got there first it's the same way with electoral college the first to 270

That makes no coherent sense whatsoever. The Cubs DID get there first, and the Indians got the bottom of the inning for a chance to catch up.

Voting isn't baseball --- we don't take "red" votes and "blue" votes in separate halves of an inning. I think you're melting down because you know you've lost.

And more people in more states voted for Donald Trump.

Then he should win the election, period. Because you just hit the nail on the head -- "more people voted". Not more "states".

I think you can't see the forest through the trees, more people voted in more states for Donald Trump. This is a republic not a shit eating democracy.
The EC absolutely makes it fair, otherwise every single out election would be determined in the high population Areas. No, I will take the three EC vote for South Dakota over The minuscule popular votes any day. It's much fairer that way...
You obviously don't understand what a republic is… But you do seem to be attached to mob rule

And yet you STILL can't articulate how those South Dakota votes would be nullified, while I have, from the beginning, demonstrated how a large swath of them would be.

Sounds like you lose.

What the Electoral College actually protected (in your terms "made fair") was the interests of the slaveholding South, as mapped out above.

Six of the first seven Presidents were exactly that ---- slaveholders from the South (Virginia). And the Electoral College was a crucial structure that helped that streak to be established. They negotiated more representation than their voting base would calculate and thus more electoral votes. And it would take a Civil War to change that.

And when the Fourteenth Amendment did change that, it established more representation for all the states while excluding women. I seem to notice you don't have any women on your side defending this antiquated contraption with a long and checkered history. Just an observation. Maybe people don't like having no say in an election. Ya think?

 

[Rustic]

No, The small states might as will not even vote if we had just a pure popular vote… Fact

And yet you can't prove that point. No one can.
Oh wait, you posted the word "fact". Well, that changes everything donut.

It doesn't matter how many times you post the same absurdity --- it's still the same absurdity. The actual "fact" is a PV would take NO votes from ANYBODY. The EC effectively already does. And as far as "might as well not even vote" that's *exactly* how it does it. Every "blue" vote in a "red" state and every "red" vote in a "blue" state is effectively thrown out. There's just no way around that. If there was, one of you asshats would have thought of it by now.

And it also makes the "red" voters in "red" states and "blue" voters in "blue" states not bother to show up. Because your vote is already decided, whether you agree with it, disagree or have no opinion. Somebody you don't even know is voting FOR you, just as slaveholders voted on behalf of their slaves who had no vote.

What's the point of casting a vote that's already been decided? Do you cast votes in an election where the candidate runs unopposed? When you lose your keys and then find them --- do you go on looking for them?

That's bullshit.

The EC is there for a reason,

Indeed it is, and I just alluded to the big one --- Slave Power.
Whelp ............. this just in, that doesn't exist any more.

Why don't we just bring back "colored" bathrooms while we're at it?

for instance like in the World Series over the whole World Series if they scored the same amount of points but the cubs got there first it's the same way with electoral college the first to 270

That makes no coherent sense whatsoever. The Cubs DID get there first, and the Indians got the bottom of the inning for a chance to catch up.

Voting isn't baseball --- we don't take "red" votes and "blue" votes in separate halves of an inning. I think you're melting down because you know you've lost.

And more people in more states voted for Donald Trump.

Then he should win the election, period. Because you just hit the nail on the head -- "more people voted". Not more "states".

I think you can't see the forest through the trees, more people voted in more states for Donald Trump. This is a republic not a shit eating democracy.
The EC absolutely makes it fair, otherwise every single out election would be determined in the high population Areas. No, I will take the three EC vote for South Dakota over The minuscule popular votes any day. It's much fairer that way...
You obviously don't understand what a republic is… But you do seem to be attached to mob rule

And yet you STILL can't articulate how those South Dakota votes would be nullified, while I have, from the beginning, demonstrated how a large swath of them would be.

Sounds like you lose.

No, more people voted in more states for Donald Trump. This is a republic the candidates knew that going in, they knew the EC would determine the outcome. The outcome was absolutely fair. 30 states voted for Donald Trump and more people in those 30 states voted for Donald Trump. Nowhere anywhere does it say the popular vote only determines presidential elections in this country. You apparently have a hard time understanding that