The electoral college is a disaster for democracy

[Flash]

These stupid uneducated low information Libtard Moon Bats have the US confused with Venezuela or something.

Here in the US it is not the rule of the mob. The Electoral College votes on the President. Our Founding Fathers were smart like that.

 

[kaz]

Counties are not the delineation in the Constitution, States are. You're just making up more shit.

The comparison is entirely appropriate. The other parrots here have been squawking about "Big" states and/or "cities" somehow "taking the vote away" from smaller, rural ones. Which is horseshit, because when Pennsylvania elects a governor, nobody's squawking about Philadelphia votes "counting for more" than Tamaqua and therefore they should be sifted through an EC system. Nobody makes that argument because it ISN'T an argument. Yet somehow in the POTUS election --- it is? Dooooon't think so. Logic doesn't change. Every Pennsylvanian votes equally for their Governor just as every American should vote equally for their President. There's no difference.

The Founders created the EC specifically to prevent our Federal government from being a "democracy." The term was never used until the 20th century.

I don't give a FF when the "term was used", "democracy" in this sense means the People have control through their vote. When the EC was formed we didn't have a PV anyway. And it was created to protect the interests of the slave states --- that ain't going away either. Just to be clear on what it's purpose was, and what it wasn't.

You want to be part of the herd, I want to be an individual, we have different and mutually exclusive goals. I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want you to leave me alone. You want to tell me what to do.

Excellent point because that's exactly what the EC prevents --- your individual vote counting for something. That is, unless you live in a "battleground" state, like I do.

I actually had a vote in this election. My relatives and friends in Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, California, Vermont and Washington --- did not. Not because their states voted this way or that way .... but because their vote was already decided for them whether they liked it or not, and there wasn't a damn thing they could do about it because Mommy Electoral College Says No.

There's just no way around that. Wags can come in here all day and night trying to change the subject to specific elections but that doesn't even touch the point.

Shut up already

Who the hell are you to tell people to shut up?

If I get my way, you can still make your own choices. If you get your way, my choice is removed. It's very different thing

 

[Pogo]

These stupid uneducated low information Libtard Moon Bats have the US confused with Venezuela or something.

Here in the US it is not the rule of the mob. The Electoral College votes on the President. Our Founding Fathers were smart like that.

Actually they were protecting slave states like that.

If a PV is "rule of the mob" ------------------ how do you elect your Governor?

And your Senators?
And your Congresscritter?
And your mayor, or city coucil, or sheriff?

Oopsie.

 

[Pogo]

Counties are not the delineation in the Constitution, States are. You're just making up more shit.

The comparison is entirely appropriate. The other parrots here have been squawking about "Big" states and/or "cities" somehow "taking the vote away" from smaller, rural ones. Which is horseshit, because when Pennsylvania elects a governor, nobody's squawking about Philadelphia votes "counting for more" than Tamaqua and therefore they should be sifted through an EC system. Nobody makes that argument because it ISN'T an argument. Yet somehow in the POTUS election --- it is? Dooooon't think so. Logic doesn't change. Every Pennsylvanian votes equally for their Governor just as every American should vote equally for their President. There's no difference.

The Founders created the EC specifically to prevent our Federal government from being a "democracy." The term was never used until the 20th century.

I don't give a FF when the "term was used", "democracy" in this sense means the People have control through their vote. When the EC was formed we didn't have a PV anyway. And it was created to protect the interests of the slave states --- that ain't going away either. Just to be clear on what it's purpose was, and what it wasn't.

You want to be part of the herd, I want to be an individual, we have different and mutually exclusive goals. I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want you to leave me alone. You want to tell me what to do.

Excellent point because that's exactly what the EC prevents --- your individual vote counting for something. That is, unless you live in a "battleground" state, like I do.

I actually had a vote in this election. My relatives and friends in Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, California, Vermont and Washington --- did not. Not because their states voted this way or that way .... but because their vote was already decided for them whether they liked it or not, and there wasn't a damn thing they could do about it because Mommy Electoral College Says No.

There's just no way around that. Wags can come in here all day and night trying to change the subject to specific elections but that doesn't even touch the point.

You know we both live in North Carolina, retard

No, I didn't know where you live, which is why I picked a neutral example of a place I know.

Hell I still don't even know your gender. That was made murky by a previous avatar, just as the present one points to Philadelphia.

But to rehash an earlier example, you and I had a vote in the recent election, solely because our state was in play. The states I cited above --- California, Texas et al --- did not. The EC took their vote away from them. Or to be exact, the EC plus the polls. Hence my point that the EC makes us dependent on polls. And I don't think that's a good thing either. Maybe you do. I dunno. You prolly won't say.

You don't know what State I live in or my gender? Just curious, what happened to your long term memory? Was it an accident? Was it self inflicted, like alcohol abuse? Why don't you retain information?

When you go flouncing around here in a dress and then won't clarify, and then use the LIberty Bell for an avatar with a location given as "Independence Hall", it uh, ain't me that's being deceptive, Sparky.

I know exacty where Independence Hall is. I was born there. And I guarantee you it ain't in North Cackalakee.

 

[Pogo]

Are you saying 60,000,000 Americans can't have their votes counted?

Bravo Madge. That's exactly the issue, because that's exactly what the Electrical College does.

Which is what I've been saying about it as long as I've been on this site, and way before.
Good to see you finally come around. Baby steps.

 

[kaz]

These stupid uneducated low information Libtard Moon Bats have the US confused with Venezuela or something.

Here in the US it is not the rule of the mob. The Electoral College votes on the President. Our Founding Fathers were smart like that.

Actually they were protecting slave states like that.

If a PV is "rule of the mob" ------------------ how do you elect your Governor?

And your Senators?
And your Congresscritter?
And your mayor, or city coucil, or sheriff?

Oopsie.

The shit you make up like that the EC was for "slave States" is just retarded.

The Federal government was balanced between States and population. The Hose distributed votes by population, the Senate by States. Either can block a bill. So populous States have more power to block bills in the House, smaller States have more power to block a bill in the Senate.

Neither can ram a bill through on it's own. Smaller States can't gang up and blow a bill through the House, big States can't ram them through the Senate.

Again showing that the Constitution was designed to protect me from you. I don't want to force my choices on you, you totally want to force yours on me. Yeah, you think it sucks the Founders recognized the threat you are and mitigated it

 

[kaz]

Counties are not the delineation in the Constitution, States are. You're just making up more shit.

The comparison is entirely appropriate. The other parrots here have been squawking about "Big" states and/or "cities" somehow "taking the vote away" from smaller, rural ones. Which is horseshit, because when Pennsylvania elects a governor, nobody's squawking about Philadelphia votes "counting for more" than Tamaqua and therefore they should be sifted through an EC system. Nobody makes that argument because it ISN'T an argument. Yet somehow in the POTUS election --- it is? Dooooon't think so. Logic doesn't change. Every Pennsylvanian votes equally for their Governor just as every American should vote equally for their President. There's no difference.

The Founders created the EC specifically to prevent our Federal government from being a "democracy." The term was never used until the 20th century.

I don't give a FF when the "term was used", "democracy" in this sense means the People have control through their vote. When the EC was formed we didn't have a PV anyway. And it was created to protect the interests of the slave states --- that ain't going away either. Just to be clear on what it's purpose was, and what it wasn't.

You want to be part of the herd, I want to be an individual, we have different and mutually exclusive goals. I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want you to leave me alone. You want to tell me what to do.

Excellent point because that's exactly what the EC prevents --- your individual vote counting for something. That is, unless you live in a "battleground" state, like I do.

I actually had a vote in this election. My relatives and friends in Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, California, Vermont and Washington --- did not. Not because their states voted this way or that way .... but because their vote was already decided for them whether they liked it or not, and there wasn't a damn thing they could do about it because Mommy Electoral College Says No.

There's just no way around that. Wags can come in here all day and night trying to change the subject to specific elections but that doesn't even touch the point.

You know we both live in North Carolina, retard

No, I didn't know where you live, which is why I picked a neutral example of a place I know.

Hell I still don't even know your gender. That was made murky by a previous avatar, just as the present one points to Philadelphia.

But to rehash an earlier example, you and I had a vote in the recent election, solely because our state was in play. The states I cited above --- California, Texas et al --- did not. The EC took their vote away from them. Or to be exact, the EC plus the polls. Hence my point that the EC makes us dependent on polls. And I don't think that's a good thing either. Maybe you do. I dunno. You prolly won't say.

You don't know what State I live in or my gender? Just curious, what happened to your long term memory? Was it an accident? Was it self inflicted, like alcohol abuse? Why don't you retain information?

When you go flouncing around here in a dress and then won't clarify, and then use the LIberty Bell for an avatar with a location given as "Independence Hall", it uh, ain't me that's being deceptive, Sparky.

I know exacty where Independence Hall is. I was born there. And I guarantee you it ain't in North Cackalakee.

Oh yeah, she was hot.

When you go through puberty, wow, you'll suddenly get it

 

[PredFan]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

I'll bet you he doesn't. How much you want to bet?

 

[LaDexter]

And now a word from your local Hillary campaign official...

 

[PredFan]

We are a constitutional republic that elects representatives. An extent of that republicanism is that our EC elects the presidents. An amendment would have to change the process, and neither party wants such, despite what certain members of those parties may say.

Neither party wants it so far. We lost the election in 2000 because of the EC. The Democrats need to push for abolition of the EC. I predict Trump will be a one term president and that in 2020 the presidency, the House and the Congress will go to the Democrats, and then we can get rid of the EC, as we should have done 40 or more years ago.

I'll bet you predicted Hillary would win too. ROTFLOL!

 

[Pogo]

The shit you make up like that the EC was for "slave States" is just retarded.

The Federal government was balanced between States and population. The Hose distributed votes by population, the Senate by States. Either can block a bill. So populous States have more power to block bills in the House, smaller States have more power to block a bill in the Senate.

Neither can ram a bill through on it's own. Smaller States can't gang up and blow a bill through the House, big States can't ram them through the Senate.

"The Hose" huh? Yeah we sure are getting hosed. Thanks for seeing it my way.

Or did you mean hoes?

What you're referring to here is Congressional representation. Apparently you're bailing out on the topic which, Rumpy Dumpy hath decreed upon the year of our load 2012, is the Electoral College. Guess you saw no other way to get around it.

But yes, it was put there to prop up slave states, which were given representation proportional to 3/5 of their slaves --- who in case they also didn't cover this in history class, didn't have a vote --- and ensured that six of our first seven Presidents were slaveholders from the South. As we've noted in this thread again and again and again and again and again. And I wasn't even the first to point that out. And then when that wouldn't work any more because we ignored the Slavery question so long we had to have a war over it, the Fourteenth Amendment put that to rest and instead allowed the states to inflate their numbers via yet another constituency that was not a constituency because they too had no vote -- women.

And now today it divides us into states where every individual has a vote, and states where none do.

Any questions?

Again showing that the Constitution was designed to protect me from you. I don't want to force my choices on you, you totally want to force yours on me. Yeah, you think it sucks the Founders recognized the threat you are and mitigated it

Ah, so you're a slaveholder? Interesting.

 

[kaz]

The shit you make up like that the EC was for "slave States" is just retarded.

The Federal government was balanced between States and population. The Hose distributed votes by population, the Senate by States. Either can block a bill. So populous States have more power to block bills in the House, smaller States have more power to block a bill in the Senate.

Neither can ram a bill through on it's own. Smaller States can't gang up and blow a bill through the House, big States can't ram them through the Senate.

"The Hose" huh? Yeah we sure are getting hosed. Thanks for seeing it my way.

Or did you mean hoes?

What you're referring to here is Congressional representation. Apparently you're bailing out on the topic which, Rumpy Dumpy hath decreed upon the year of our load 2012, is the Electoral College. Guess you saw no other way to get around it.

But yes, it was put there to prop up slave states, which were given representation proportional to 3/5 of their slaves --- who in case they also didn't cover this in history class, didn't have a vote --- and ensured that six of our first seven Presidents were slaveholders from the South.

Any questions?

Again showing that the Constitution was designed to protect me from you. I don't want to force my choices on you, you totally want to force yours on me. Yeah, you think it sucks the Founders recognized the threat you are and mitigated it

Ah, so you're a slaveholder? Interesting.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Pogo, I am waiting for you to make an actual argument for a popular vote.

You have not. You have given your opinion, which is often as silly as Kaz.

 

[Pogo]

Pogo, I am waiting for you to make an actual argument for a popular vote.

You have not. You have given your opinion, which is often as silly as Kaz.

Inasmuch as this thread is about the opposite and given that the EC is what we have now --- the topic is not so much the argument for a popular vote as the argument against the EC.

And I've been doing exactly that since the beginning of this thread and way before it was created. And none of my points have been deconstructed.

Shall we bullet them yet again?

• It disenfranchises everyone in a given state who does not vote with the plurality;
• It disincentivises voting at all, for exactly that reason;
• It purports to vote on behalf of voters who would in no way assent to that vote;
• It perpetuates the Duopoly system;
• It requires us to be dependent on polls, since only via polls can we know if the EC permits our vote to count or not
• It creates division everywhere it's been employed, the current one being the artificial "red" state versus "blue" state concept, a concept which should not even exist.

I'm sure I've left something out but I'm preoccupied. I have to go now and look for a forest fire.

 

[kaz]

Pogo, I am waiting for you to make an actual argument for a popular vote.

You have not. You have given your opinion, which is often as silly as Kaz.

Inasmuch as this thread is about the opposite and given that the EC is what we have now --- the topic is not so much the argument for a popular vote as the argument against the EC.

And I've been doing exactly that since the beginning of this thread and way before it was created. And none of my points have been deconstructed.

Shall we bullet them yet again?

• It disenfranchises everyone in a given state who does not vote with the plurality;
• It disincentivises voting at all, for exactly that reason;
• It purports to vote on behalf of voters who would in no way assent to that vote;
• It perpetuates the Duopoly system;
• It requires us to be dependent on polls, since only via polls can we know if the EC permits our vote to count or not

I'm sure I've left something out but I'm preoccupied. I have to go now and look for a forest fire.

It prevents socialists from freely forcing your views on everyone else with a simple national majority.

No wait, that one's good ...

 

[Flash]

These stupid uneducated low information Libtard Moon Bats have the US confused with Venezuela or something.

Here in the US it is not the rule of the mob. The Electoral College votes on the President. Our Founding Fathers were smart like that.

Actually they were protecting slave states like that.

If a PV is "rule of the mob" ------------------ how do you elect your Governor?

And your Senators?
And your Congresscritter?
And your mayor, or city coucil, or sheriff?

Oopsie.

No, they were keeping us a little protected from the rule of the mob.

Actually our Founding Fathers had a very heated debate on it. Some wanted the President to be appointed by Congress. Some even suggested being appointed by the state governors. Some by popular vote.

The idea of the Electoral College was the compromise. Nothing more sinister than that.

I like it. Democracy can be just as brutal and oppressive as any other form if government when the majority are a bunch of assholes. .

The Electoral College takes a little (not much) power out of the hands of the massive number of ghetto welfare queens living in the densely populated big city shitholes and redistributes it to the the heart of America. Not a bad thing.

 

[peach174]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

Why?
He was right it stopped the dictatorial Social Democracy.

Mitt Romney represented "social democracy"?

Not sure I've heard that one before....

I never said that.

 

[Pogo]

These stupid uneducated low information Libtard Moon Bats have the US confused with Venezuela or something.

Here in the US it is not the rule of the mob. The Electoral College votes on the President. Our Founding Fathers were smart like that.

Actually they were protecting slave states like that.

If a PV is "rule of the mob" ------------------ how do you elect your Governor?

And your Senators?
And your Congresscritter?
And your mayor, or city coucil, or sheriff?

Oopsie.

No, they were keeping us a little protected from the rule of the mob.

Actually our Founding Fathers had a very heated debate on it. Some wanted the President to be appointed by Congress. Some even suggested being appointed by the state governors. Some by popular vote.

The idea of the Electoral College was the compromise. Nothing more sinister than that.

I like it. Democracy can be just as brutal and oppressive as any other form if government when the majority are a bunch of assholes. .

The Electoral College takes a little (not much) power out of the hands of the massive number of ghetto welfare queens living in the densely populated big city shitholes and redistributes it to the the heart of America. Not a bad thing.

Nnnnope. Doesn't do that at all. Here's what it does.
The vote of that "ghetto welfare queen" and the vote of that "redneck trailer trash", once they're both pulled away from their game-show TV, is exactly the same. And that's fine.

What's not fine is that their vote, and everybody else's within that state, it magically transmogrified into a single vote. Maybe those two voted differently, maybe they voted the same. It doesn't matter. Somebody's been nullified.

The main compromise, for those of you on the short bus, was that the slaveholder states got to count non-voters (slaves) in order to jack up their EV numbers. It even has its own compromise name: the "Three Fifths Compromise". And that's what the entire contraption was put there for.

So you're full of shit. With a PV your "ghetto welfare queen" and my "redneck trailer trash" each get their vote, and nobody ***** with it.

In other words exactly the same way you and I and everybody else elects who runs their state. How many states do you know with a "county/parish electoral college" to elect the Governor?

Zero. Because there's no reason to do it.

Unless maybe you had "slave counties" and "free counties".

 

[Pogo]

Said Donald Trump in 2012.

I betcha he wishes he could take that one back.

Why?
He was right it stopped the dictatorial Social Democracy.

Mitt Romney represented "dictatorial social democracy"?

Not sure I've heard that one before....

I never said that.

Well, he was talking about Romney, and that's who got "stopped". I just did the math.

It's interesting, don't know if you caught it but at the same time, when somehow Rump thought Romney had won the PV and lost the EV, he said it was ridiculous and we should have, and I quote, "a revolution in this country" over it.

Ironic huh?

Good to see you Peach. Every time I see you I think of my hammered dulcimer.

 

[Flopper]

Irrelevant. The Tenth Amendment has zero to do with the EC.
The Twelfth does. And the Fourteenth and Nineteenth do. Not the Tenth.



There is no such thing as a "shit eating democracy". Democracies to not consume feces. "Democracy" means that power is invested in a voting public -- not in voting States. And not in eating turds.

And a voting public is what this country is all about. That's what "We the People" is supposed to mean. Read that again --- it does not say "We the States".



Again, the same echobabble on a continuous loop makes no more sense than it did when it was first babbled. Nor is Rump in any way relevant to this topic except for the fact that he wrote the title to this thread. And he was right.



Again, irrelevant. None of this is about any particular candidates or any particular election. It's about how the Electoral College works. It comes up every four years. Rump brought it up four years ago, and here it is agin. And four years from now it'll once again come up. Just think --- you can dive into it in 2020 with all this good stuff you've learned from this thread.



Actually I'm the one who's spelled out how this thing works, where it came from and why it was put there. And no one can dispute that. It's recorded history. You on the other hand keep babble-babble-babbling meaningless pap like "Rump won more votes in more states". So you're the one who's being schooled here, Hunior.



Nobody has shown how that would happen.
And nobody can, because it's another echobabble bullshit line that has no foundation.


That's true if you're a slave state.
Are you a slave state?

Or just a slave?

Think about it.

Lol
You just can't bear the fact people you disagree with will not be controlled by you. By the way Hildabeast lost the election.

QED -- you have no answer to my points, so you try in vain to change the subject.

Because there isn't any answer.

Fact remains, the EC is best for small population states. No two ways about it

You can parrot that line all day, yet you have yet to defend or even explain it.
Meanwhile I've run rings around you with counterexplanations of why that's complete bullshit.

So you lose.

But keep on bumping this thread -- the more people that see these points the more they're exposed and the more it will be seen for the liability it is. Thanks for that.

A pure popular vote is mob rule...
You have no proof otherwise

The popular vote seems to work in a 112 countries that allow their citizens to select their leader.
The US is among only 4 countries that uses the electoral college to select their leader.
Elections by country - Wikipedia