The dopes that install solar panels

justoffal

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2013
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So far I have sent them all packing. I am willing to capture some solar but I DO NOT WANT IT HOOKED UP TO THE METER......none of the local companies will do that. I'll probably do it myself after I finish the bathroom projects that the wife has ordered. Additionally they don't send out structural people who know shit about shit. I have a very large roof....the rafters are 33'6".... the modulus of elasticity for this particular beam with its dimensions tells me that I have about 90 pounds of sheer stress tolerance per unit length going with the grain....now place that directly in the middle of the beam about 16' 8" and you have considerably less due to leverage. My rafters are about 100 years old so I going to grade them at about 70 percent efficiency. That brings us to the number 63 for the sheer stress and I haven't yet figured out how much pressure would be added to the direct center of the length due to leverage but I'm sure it's plenty. I'm probably being too generous with 63. The installers showed me the lag bolts they were going to use. NO EFFING WAY! was my response. You're going to drive that thing into my rafter? NOPE! He seemed puzzled.....I asked them if they had a structural engineer that worked with them. He seemed further puzzled.....now mind you this has happened several times at my kitchen table with these guys. Judging from the size of the lag it would reduce the efficiency of the 3x8 rafters down to a 1x4 which would be totally intolerable for a heavy snowfall.

I no longer bother even to talk to them. I am currently working on a design with a few builders that starts with independent supports that are pylon-ed into the ground near the sides of the house building a tent like frame of sorts with very light support structures bearing down on the roof without penetrating the rafters. Yeah it will probably look a little funny to some but I don't care. I also offered to design a special U bolt for rafters that hugs the rafter from the inside while not penetrating the structure of the rafter and still providing anchorage for the panel footing. I called them " Rafter Clamps" but the company I was talking to at the time was concerned that it could extend the installation times out too far.... ok...fuck them.

OH....and lets talk about the meter. None of them were able to discuss it because they said that without a meter hookup they couldn't pull the permit. This does not surprise me. See....when you generate and sell back to the utility you have to use their lines and they charge for that. So screw them too.

I will figure it out....trust me. Even if I have to build it myself.

JO
 
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So far I have sent them all packing. I am willing to capture some solar but I DO NOT WANT IT HOOKED UP TO THE METER......none of the local companies will do that. I'll probably do it myself after I finish the bathroom projects that the wife has ordered. Additionally they don't send out structural people who know shit about shit. I have a very large roof....the rafters are 33'6".... the modulus of elasticity for this particular beam with its dimensions tells me that I have about 90 pounds of sheer stress tolerance per unit length going with the grain....now place that directly in the middle of the beam about 16' 8" and you have considerably less due to leverage. My rafters are about 100 years old so I going to grade them at about 70 percent efficiency. That brings us to the number 63 for the sheer stress and I haven't yet figured out how much pressure would be added to the direct center of the length due to leverage but I'm sure it's plenty. I'm probably being too generous with 63. The installers showed me the lag bolts they were going to use. NO EFFING WAY! was my response. You're going to drive that thing into my rafter? NOPE! He seemed puzzled.....I asked them if they had a structural engineer that worked with them. He seemed further puzzled.....now mind you this has happened several times at my kitchen table with these guys. Judging from the size of the lag it would reduce the efficiency of the 3x8 rafters down to a 1x4 which would be totally intolerable for a heavy snowfall. I no longer bother even to talk to them. I am currently working on a design with a few builders that starts with independent supports that are pylon-ed into the ground near the sides of the house building an tent like frame of sorts with very light support structures bearing down on the roof without penetrating the rafters. Yeah it will probably look a little funny to some but I don't care. I also offered to design a special U bolt for rafters that hugs the rafter from the inside while not penetrating the structure of the rafter and still providing anchorage for the panel footing. I called them " Rafter Clamps" but the company I was talking to at the time was concerned that it could extend the installation times out too far.... ok...fuck them. OH....and lets talk about the meter. None of them were able to discuss it because they said that without a meter hookup they couldn't pull the permit. This does not surprise me. See....when you generate and sell back to the utility you have to use their lines and they charge for that. So screw them too.

I will figure it out....trust me. Even if I have to build it myself.

JO
The best answer is to install a grid-tied with battery backup system that increases self-consumption where the excess energy is not injected back to the grid. Instead, it goes into an energy storage system under a Grid Zero mode of operation that avoids sending excess energy to the grid.

Finally, an important consideration is what to do when the energy storage device is completely charged and there is excess solar energy. The most optimum system will store this excess solar power as thermal energy in a hot water system. Sending the excess solar energy to the water heater will make sure that every kWh that your PV system generates will be used and will offset your consumption from the power grid to achieve revenues.
 
You'll need a gross generation meter installed next to your net meter, and in some localities a battery meter as well....~S~
 
The best answer is to install a grid-tied with battery backup system that increases self-consumption where the excess energy is not injected back to the grid. Instead, it goes into an energy storage system under a Grid Zero mode of operation that avoids sending excess energy to the grid.

Finally, an important consideration is what to do when the energy storage device is completely charged and there is excess solar energy. The most optimum system will store this excess solar power as thermal energy in a hot water system. Sending the excess solar energy to the water heater will make sure that every kWh that your PV system generates will be used and will offset your consumption from the power grid to achieve revenues.
got that covered.....DC geothermal pumps.....they run 24/7
 
Maintenance on solar panel systems is the gift that keeps on giving for the contractors that sell/install/maintain them.
or municipalities duped into purchasing them as they decline in efficacy , as well as pollute ground water....~S~
 
You'll need a gross generation meter installed next to your net meter, and in some localities a battery meter as well....~S~
I don't want them to know anything about the juice I produce....they'll find a fucking way to tax it. I am going to use a battery bank yes but I will use excess....if there is any that is..... to drive DC geo thermal pumps that run 24/7.....If I still have excess it will dive a heating element in the winter or DC air conditioning unit in the summer.
 
So far I have sent them all packing. I am willing to capture some solar but I DO NOT WANT IT HOOKED UP TO THE METER......none of the local companies will do that. I'll probably do it myself after I finish the bathroom projects that the wife has ordered. Additionally they don't send out structural people who know shit about shit. I have a very large roof....the rafters are 33'6".... the modulus of elasticity for this particular beam with its dimensions tells me that I have about 90 pounds of sheer stress tolerance per unit length going with the grain....now place that directly in the middle of the beam about 16' 8" and you have considerably less due to leverage. My rafters are about 100 years old so I going to grade them at about 70 percent efficiency. That brings us to the number 63 for the sheer stress and I haven't yet figured out how much pressure would be added to the direct center of the length due to leverage but I'm sure it's plenty. I'm probably being too generous with 63. The installers showed me the lag bolts they were going to use. NO EFFING WAY! was my response. You're going to drive that thing into my rafter? NOPE! He seemed puzzled.....I asked them if they had a structural engineer that worked with them. He seemed further puzzled.....now mind you this has happened several times at my kitchen table with these guys. Judging from the size of the lag it would reduce the efficiency of the 3x8 rafters down to a 1x4 which would be totally intolerable for a heavy snowfall.

I no longer bother even to talk to them. I am currently working on a design with a few builders that starts with independent supports that are pylon-ed into the ground near the sides of the house building an tent like frame of sorts with very light support structures bearing down on the roof without penetrating the rafters. Yeah it will probably look a little funny to some but I don't care. I also offered to design a special U bolt for rafters that hugs the rafter from the inside while not penetrating the structure of the rafter and still providing anchorage for the panel footing. I called them " Rafter Clamps" but the company I was talking to at the time was concerned that it could extend the installation times out too far.... ok...fuck them.

OH....and lets talk about the meter. None of them were able to discuss it because they said that without a meter hookup they couldn't pull the permit. This does not surprise me. See....when you generate and sell back to the utility you have to use their lines and they charge for that. So screw them too.

I will figure it out....trust me. Even if I have to build it myself.

JO


I built my own system 30 years ago. Replaced it last year so know exactly what you are talking about. I too made U bolts to protect the rafter beams. And yeah, it takes more time, but it's worth it.
 
I built my own system 30 years ago. Replaced it last year so know exactly what you are talking about. I too made U bolts to protect the rafter beams. And yeah, it takes more time, but it's worth it.
I can't believe what they were about to do to my roof! Idiots....
 
cleaning, checking the connections, etc...~S~
Yes... I'm glad you brought that up. I am seeing the mini solar roofing tiles thing now and It looks like a total maintenance nightmare.
 
I don't want them to know anything about the juice I produce....they'll find a fucking way to tax it. I am going to use a battery bank yes but I will use excess....if there is any that is..... to drive DC geo thermal pumps that run 24/7.....If I still have excess it will dive a heating element in the winter or DC air conditioning unit in the summer.
So you'll be a stand alone system then , a rather bold undertaking from my experience in the field, yet i wish you luck....~S~
 

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