The Democrats Present Bill To Restore Freedom Against The NSA

[RKMBrown]

So you make a claim and want me to prove it for you......And send me to wiki to do so?

Really?

I don't think so....

I stated facts. You asked for corroborating evidence in a particular document. The document is MASSIVE and even the index contains corroborating evidence. The wiki talks about the many "holes" and the evidence that you wanted to see. For a person to ask for evidence when the evidence is overwhelming and voluminous, points to that person being obtuse. I told you what terms to search for. Do your own investigation you won't believe your eyes and ears, I can't help you.

You say you read it and it's not there... either you can't read it without koolaid glasses, don't understand it, are mentally unstable, or are a liar.

 

[SFC Ollie]

So you make a claim and want me to prove it for you......And send me to wiki to do so?

Really?

I don't think so....

I stated facts. You asked for corroborating evidence in a particular document. The document is MASSIVE and even the index contains corroborating evidence. The wiki talks about the many "holes" and the evidence that you wanted to see. For a person to ask for evidence when the evidence is overwhelming and voluminous, points to that person being obtuse. I told you what terms to search for. Do you own investigation you won't believe your eyes and ears, I can't help you.

You say you read it and it's not there... either you can't read it, don't understand it, or are a liar.

I think you better just STFU.... I don't take to anyone calling me a liar.

 

[RKMBrown]

So you make a claim and want me to prove it for you......And send me to wiki to do so?

Really?

I don't think so....

I stated facts. You asked for corroborating evidence in a particular document. The document is MASSIVE and even the index contains corroborating evidence. The wiki talks about the many "holes" and the evidence that you wanted to see. For a person to ask for evidence when the evidence is overwhelming and voluminous, points to that person being obtuse. I told you what terms to search for. Do you own investigation you won't believe your eyes and ears, I can't help you.

You say you read it and it's not there... either you can't read it, don't understand it, or are a liar.

I think you better just STFU.... I don't take to anyone calling me a liar.

No. You STFU.

 

[RKMBrown]

Is there any intelligence left out there? Hello?

So now They want to fix something else that they broke? The Patriot Act does not give the NSA the power to collect all phone records. It specifically state they have to get a warrant. And under what circumstances they can get the warrant...They have not been following the guidlines set up in the Pat Act......

Fire all of congress and lets start over.............

The Patriot Act absolutely gives the government the power to do that. Obama didn't expand it, he's not using it against the original intent. It was created so the government could spy on anyone they wanted to without a warrant, and that's exactly how the government's using it.

Sorry, but you are wrong. This administration has illegally gone beyond the powers that the Patriot Act gives them...try reading the Act sometime.... This so called proposed Bill is BS because it shouldn't be needed....

You claimed, "this administration has illegally gone beyond the powers that the Patriot Act gives them." You claimed this BEFORE I disagreed with you saying it most certainly does give him that right.

Per your rules old man "PROVE IT!" Prove YOUR statement. Cite the law he broke in the powers provided. As I asked, first, cite the place in the act that he illegally went beyond.

 

[SFC Ollie]

That would be Section 215, the very section they claim they want to protect us from.....
It is the section that NSA has broken..... Or one section, there are probably others. It is not an easy read.....I spent many hours on it way back when.....And I didn't trust it to be followed......

 

[RKMBrown]

That would be Section 215, the very section they claim they want to protect us from.....
It is the section that NSA has broken..... Or one section, there are probably others. It is not an easy read.....I spent many hours on it way back when.....And I didn't trust it to be followed......

Thank you.

Note section 215 is really just replacements to the FISA act.

SEC. 215. ACCESS TO RECORDS AND OTHER ITEMS UNDER THE FOREIGN
INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT.
Title V of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978
(50 U.S.C. 1861 et seq.) is amended by striking sections 501 through
503 and inserting the following:

I'll bold the parts that give them the right to screw us over.

‘‘SEC. 501. ACCESS TO CERTAIN BUSINESS RECORDS FOR FOREIGN
INTELLIGENCE AND INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM INVESTIGATIONS.
‘‘(a)(1) The Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation
or a designee of the Director (whose rank shall be no lower than
Assistant Special Agent in Charge) may make an application for
an order requiring the production of any tangible things (including
books, records, papers, documents, and other items) for an investigation
to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence
activities, provided that such investigation of a United
States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities
protected by the first amendment to the Constitution.
‘‘(2) An investigation conducted under this section shall—
‘‘(A) be conducted under guidelines approved by the
Attorney General under Executive Order 12333 (or a successor
order); and
‘‘(B) not be conducted of a United States person solely
upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment
to the Constitution of the United States.
‘‘(b) Each application under this section—
‘‘(1) shall be made to—
‘‘(A) a judge of the court established by section 103(a);
or
‘‘(B) a United States Magistrate Judge under chapter
43 of title 28, United States Code, who is publicly designated
by the Chief Justice of the United States to have
the power to hear applications and grant orders for the
production of tangible things under this section on behalf
of a judge of that court; and
‘‘(2) shall specify that the records concerned are sought
for an authorized investigation conducted in accordance with
subsection (a)(2) to obtain foreign intelligence information not
concerning a United States person or to protect against international
terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.
‘‘(c)(1) Upon an application made pursuant to this section, the
judge shall enter an ex parte order as requested, or as modified,
approving the release of records if the judge finds that the application
meets the requirements of this section.
‘‘(2) An order under this subsection shall not disclose that
it is issued for purposes of an investigation described in subsection
(a).
‘‘(d) No person shall disclose to any other person (other than
those persons necessary to produce the tangible things under this
section) that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought or
obtained tangible things under this section.
‘‘(e) A person who, in good faith, produces tangible things
under an order pursuant to this section shall not be liable to
any other person for such production. Such production shall not
be deemed to constitute a waiver of any privilege in any other
proceeding or context.

Note above that the important part is that they only had to make one order to use any and all information provided by everyone. There is no requirement that the investigation be limited to a particular individual, or investigation. This is the hole. Thus they got approval for one prosecution of the war on terror and now have complete access to everyone's documents for all time.

‘‘SEC. 502. CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT.
‘‘(a) On a semiannual basis, the Attorney General shall fully
inform the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the
House of Representatives and the Select Committee on Intelligence
of the Senate concerning all requests for the production of tangible
things under section 402.
‘‘(b) On a semiannual basis, the Attorney General shall provide
to the Committees on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives
and the Senate a report setting forth with respect to the precedig
6-month period—
‘‘(1) the total number of applications made for orders
approving requests for the production of tangible things under
section 402; and
‘‘(2) the total number of such orders either granted, modified,
or denied.’’.

Note they don't have to tell who they screwed over just who asked for the one order to give up all of our data.

 

[SFC Ollie]

‘‘(2) An investigation conducted under this section shall—
‘‘(A) be conducted under guidelines approved by the
Attorney General under Executive Order 12333 (or a successor
order); and
‘‘(B) not be conducted of a United States person solely
upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment
to the Constitution of the United States.
‘‘(b) Each application under this section—
‘‘(1) shall be made to—
‘‘(A) a judge of the court established by section 103(a);
or
‘‘(B) a United States Magistrate Judge under chapter
43 of title 28, United States Code, who is publicly designated
by the Chief Justice of the United States to have
the power to hear applications and grant orders for the
production of tangible things under this section on behalf
of a judge of that court; and
‘‘(2) shall specify that the records concerned are sought
for an authorized investigation conducted in accordance with
subsection (a)(2) to obtain foreign intelligence information not
concerning a United States person or to protect against international
terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.




And on and on and on....You need a warrant. And it specifies here and in other places what the warrant covers....

It did not and does not cover what NSA has done under this administration.

You want to prosecute the Pat Act go ahead. I want to prosecute this administration for allowing or possibly even ordering it to be broken.....

 

[TemplarKormac]

I read the act. Did you? It lets them do whatever they want to anyone they want anywhere they want any time they want for any reason they want. And it's fully funded, thanks.

We must speak different languages then...... i don't see that anywhere in the Act....

You don't speak English?

Yes he does. But he doesn't speak bullshit.

 

[RKMBrown]

We must speak different languages then...... i don't see that anywhere in the Act....

You don't speak English?

Yes he does. But he doesn't speak bullshit.

Nothing but crap ever comes out of your mouth.

 

[RKMBrown]

‘‘(2) An investigation conducted under this section shall—
‘‘(A) be conducted under guidelines approved by the
Attorney General under Executive Order 12333 (or a successor
order); and
‘‘(B) not be conducted of a United States person solely
upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment
to the Constitution of the United States.
‘‘(b) Each application under this section—
‘‘(1) shall be made to—
‘‘(A) a judge of the court established by section 103(a);
or
‘‘(B) a United States Magistrate Judge under chapter
43 of title 28, United States Code, who is publicly designated
by the Chief Justice of the United States to have
the power to hear applications and grant orders for the
production of tangible things under this section on behalf
of a judge of that court; and
‘‘(2) shall specify that the records concerned are sought
for an authorized investigation conducted in accordance with
subsection (a)(2) to obtain foreign intelligence information not
concerning a United States person or to protect against international
terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.




And on and on and on....You need a warrant. And it specifies here and in other places what the warrant covers....

It did not and does not cover what NSA has done under this administration.

You want to prosecute the Pat Act go ahead. I want to prosecute this administration for allowing or possibly even ordering it to be broken.....

They only need to make ONE application for ONE order for a ONE BLANKET investigation to COVER an investigation of EVERY human on the planet. There is no limit to a particular citizen, or even a hint that it might be limited. NONE.

It's like the war on terror, or the war on drugs. BLANKET APPROVAL TO PROSECUTE NEVER ENDING WARS AGAINST THAT WHICH WE FEAR. IOW not even a war against a "particular" country... oh hell no a war against anything that scares us.

We are on the same side on this. My point isn't to support this administration or the one that came before it. My point is to point out what needs to happen. You want to end this? End the un-patriot act.

 

[S.J.]

I've always been against the Patriot Act because I knew eventually there would be a Democrat in the W.H. who (even though officially campaigning against it under a Republican president) would be all too willing to fight to keep it as a tool to use against his political opponents and ordinary citizens. My concerns turned out to be well founded.

 

[Montecresto]

This is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! STOP rooting for the team and be a god damn American! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for YEARS!

 

[dblack]

This is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! STOP rooting for the team and be a god damn American! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for YEARS!

Most posters here are partisan. It's just 'team sport' for them. I *hope* that doesn't reflect most voters, but I'm not really sure it doesn't. And, yeah. They're selling us down the river.

 

[S.J.]

This is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! STOP rooting for the team and be a god damn American! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for YEARS!

Not a partisan issue, but Democrats are the ones who put politics ahead of everything, including national security. They're the ones who have a habit of leaking classified information for political gain.

 

[dblack]

this is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! Stop rooting for the team and be a god damn american! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for years!

not a partisan issue, but democrats are the ones who put politics ahead of everything, including national security. They're the ones who have a habit of leaking classified information for political gain.

lol

 

[S.J.]

this is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! Stop rooting for the team and be a god damn american! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for years!

not a partisan issue, but democrats are the ones who put politics ahead of everything, including national security. They're the ones who have a habit of leaking classified information for political gain.

lol

Sen. Patrick "Leaky" Leahy To Investigate Top Secret Interrogations - Conservative Crusader

 

[Black_Label]

This is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! STOP rooting for the team and be a god damn American! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for YEARS!

Not a partisan issue, but Democrats are the ones who put politics ahead of everything, including national security. They're the ones who have a habit of leaking classified information for political gain.

Hey guys!

 

[Montecresto]

This is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! STOP rooting for the team and be a god damn American! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for YEARS!

Most posters here are partisan. It's just 'team sport' for them. I *hope* that doesn't reflect most voters, but I'm not really sure it doesn't. And, yeah. They're selling us down the river.

Yes but that should be saved for football and basketball. What we're talking about here, people are playing for keeps with our republic. There's no room for sport, we'd best mean business. So, the partisan bullshit should be sidelined, and no pun intended.

 

[RKMBrown]

This is not a democrat republican thing. What makes you guys be so partisan? While your arguing about that, we're getting fucked! STOP rooting for the team and be a god damn American! Nothing about this is good and its been going on for YEARS!

Not a partisan issue, but Democrats are the ones who put politics ahead of everything, including national security. They're the ones who have a habit of leaking classified information for political gain.

Hey guys!

Why would someone accuse a member of this board of being a criminal with every post he makes by quoting them out of context? Black label you should be more cautious. Isn't stalking and slander illegal where you live? Where I come from people end up disappeared by doing that sort of thing.

 

[Black_Label]

Not a partisan issue, but Democrats are the ones who put politics ahead of everything, including national security. They're the ones who have a habit of leaking classified information for political gain.

Hey guys!

Why would someone accuse a member of this board of being a criminal with every post he makes by quoting them out of context? Black label you should be more cautious. Isn't stalking and slander illegal where you live? Where I come from people end up disappeared by doing that sort of thing.

Are you talking about big gay ern? He's a stalker, psychopath, and a self admitted gang member that has committed numerous heinous crimes, but that's for another thread,..