That "Change" That I Proposed For The Democrats.....

[mudwhistle]

Um, we gave Japan favorable surrender terms so the Soviets WOULDN'T take half their country.

You guys keep thinking the bomb ended WWII, but it was really the Soviet Entry into the war and the prospect of losing Hokkaido and half of Honshu to Russian Occupation.

Yeah.............**** America.

Russia dropped the bomb on Tokyo.

Let's give them all of the credit now.

Just how dumb can you get?

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah.............**** America.

Russia dropped the bomb on Tokyo.

Let's give them all of the credit now.

Just how dumb can you get?

no, dummy. They took Manchuria, which was Japan's source of wealth at that time.

Japan's hope was to play the USSR and Americans off against each other and retain some of its empire. Once the USSR rolled inot the war and made short work of the Kwantung Army, that simply wasn't going to happen.

 

[mudwhistle]

no, dummy. They took Manchuria, which was Japan's source of wealth at that time.

Japan's hope was to play the USSR and Americans off against each other and retain some of its empire. Once the USSR rolled inot the war and made short work of the Kwantung Army, that simply wasn't going to happen.

Excellent attempt at revisionist history.

 

[JoeB131]

Excellent attempt at revisionist history.

No revision at all.

The bombs were just not that big of a deal. We'd been bombing Japan conventionally for months.

The prospect of Soviet Occupation, of Japanese women being mass raped like German women were being after VE day, that was terrifying to them.

 

[mudwhistle]

No revision at all.

The bombs were just not that big of a deal. We'd been bombing Japan conventionally for months.

The prospect of Soviet Occupation, of Japanese women being mass raped like German women were being after VE day, that was terrifying to them.

 

[JoeB131]

Your inability to grasp historical realities is sad.

I can't blame you, you've been told all your life Americans won the war single-handedly.

Even though other people did all the heavy lifting and America hasn't won a war since.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Who do you want to win the war, America or Iran?

Its not a war. Its an excursion, remember?

 

[mudwhistle]

Your inability to grasp historical realities is sad.

I can't blame you, you've been told all your life Americans won the war single-handedly.

Even though other people did all the heavy lifting and America hasn't won a war since.

There's a lot of reasons for the Japanese surrender.

The trigger was the possibly of annihilation by untold numbers of American nukes.

The only reason the war carried on as long as it did was because of fanatics in the Japanese military.

 

[JoeB131]

There's a lot of reasons for the Japanese surrender.

The trigger was the possibly of annihilation by untold numbers of American nukes.

The only reason the war carried on as long as it did was because of fanatics in the Japanese military.

Except we didn't have "untold numbers of nukes".

In fact, we only had the two.

So you have to keep in mind what the Japanese War goal was. It was to retain parts of its empire, get a reasonable peace, and then dominate the region economically through all the puppet governments it set up across Asia.

And the key part of that was Manchuko (Manchuria) under the puppet Emperor, Puyi.

Once it was clear they were going to lose Manchuria and Korea, their goal was to get the best deal from the Americans they could.

Contrariwise, for the Americans, the prospect of the Soviets taking the lion's share of the spoils in Asia as they had in Europe was frightening, so we dropped our insistence that Hirohito abdicate and be treated as the war criminal he obviously was.

The real objective for both the US and USSR wasn't really Japan, it was China. A prolonged war in Asia would have left the Soviets in control of much of China, with a very credible alternative to Chiang Kai-shek in the person of Mao Zedong.

(Which is of course, what ended up happening anyway when the Chinese Civil War resumed.)