The Dangerous Game of Smearing a Sitting President of the Most Powerful Country in the World

[Olde Europe]

And the nation certainly cannot afford to abandon the Constitution, the rule of law, or a politicians oath to office to serve those people in a representative government. The backlash to irresponsible inaction, is automatic destruction to everything this country holds dear. And if you are resting that inaction on the backs of a criminal, that will rest on your shoulders, not mine. I hold dear my freedoms in this country. I don't support Dictators, murderers, and authoritarians who want to steal my freedoms from me.

Did I somehow argue you should support "Dictators, murderers, and authoritarians who want to steal [your] freedoms"? I genuinely cannot remember having done so.

trump has conducted himself as if he were in the mob. & uh.... his base is 30% of those who still consider themselves (R)s. that's really not a lot - & it's not looking good for donny. he may not make it till 2020 anyways.

So, you're actually claiming - 30% of the country self-identifying as (R) - that Mafia Don's support is at 9%?

Do you remember what happened to Clinton's support when the Goobers impeached him? And, since Clinton's and Trump's base are vastly different in terms of personality types, the rightarded backlash will be way bigger, and of a different type. Just look at JimBowie1958's OP to see the almost inexplicable aggression engendered by, and directed against, anyone going after their Dear Leader. So, while I really cannot wait to see Mafia Don's frogmarch, I still argue that those who are trying to make it happen do so in light of the societal and political consequences this is likely to bring about. Failing in that might be ruinous, and no claims of the sort, "I was just defending my freedoms", would change that.

 

[SweetSue92]

The Dangerous Game of a Mentally Ill Man to Reside in the White House

Harvard psychiatrist breaks down Trump's 'severe, continuous, mental disturbance'

Psychiatrists are some of the craziest people you will ever know. Take that to the bank.

 

[SweetSue92]

How Scared Should Trump Be of Mueller? Ask John Gotti or Sammy “The Bull”

Yes, nice story. The problem with every analogy is that you have to demonstrate that the two stories follow the same pattern or rules for it to be valid. Thus it doesn't mean Trump will end up suffering Gotti's fate. It doesn't even mean Americans won't reelect him. For all I care, and looking around on here, the "establishment's" onslaught will rather guarantee the Trumpletons have one more reason to rally behind their Dear Leader. So, what Mueller is doing, or the prosecutors at the SDNY, may very well cause a backlash the likes of which the nation can ill afford.

We can afford it. Can Europe afford it? Do we care?

.....nope

 

[SweetSue92]

And the nation certainly cannot afford to abandon the Constitution, the rule of law, or a politicians oath to office to serve those people in a representative government. The backlash to irresponsible inaction, is automatic destruction to everything this country holds dear. And if you are resting that inaction on the backs of a criminal, that will rest on your shoulders, not mine. I hold dear my freedoms in this country. I don't support Dictators, murderers, and authoritarians who want to steal my freedoms from me.

Did I somehow argue you should support "Dictators, murderers, and authoritarians who want to steal [your] freedoms"? I genuinely cannot remember having done so.

trump has conducted himself as if he were in the mob. & uh.... his base is 30% of those who still consider themselves (R)s. that's really not a lot - & it's not looking good for donny. he may not make it till 2020 anyways.

So, you're actually claiming - 30% of the country self-identifying as (R) - that Mafia Don's support is at 9%?

Do you remember what happened to Clinton's support when the Goobers impeached him? And, since Clinton's and Trump's base are vastly different in terms of personality types, the rightarded backlash will be way bigger, and of a different type. Just look at JimBowie1958's OP to see the almost inexplicable aggression engendered by, and directed against, anyone going after their Dear Leader. So, while I really cannot wait to see Mafia Don's frogmarch, I still argue that those who are trying to make it happen do so in light of the societal and political consequences this is likely to bring about. Failing in that might be ruinous, and no claims of the sort, "I was just defending my freedoms", would change that.

"Rightard"---how cute, from Europe. And you expect our men and women, many of whom are "rightard", to suit up and defend your defunct continent if it comes to it. hahahahahahaha....that's a good one. OH yeah, Americans are right with you, just can't WAIT to send our young men and women to fight and die for you AGAIN when the invasion all goes wrong.

Oh wait, no. We won't be doing that again. Catching on yet, Mr. Europe? Keep name-calling, keep the old Europe snobbery going. It's working like a charm over here. Trust me.

 

[JoeB131]

/——/ Work on your reading comprehension. The media is the enemy AND Fox is turning left.

Okay, nope, still sounds crazy to normal people...

This is what a cult looks like, people. Everyone drinks the Kool-Aid because you don't dare question it.

 

[JoeB131]

This shit has gotten progressively worse with time, so the next White House occupant had better strap in.

The nutters are firmly in control now. Enjoy.

Vichy Mac feeling sorry for poor DonnieFuhrer.

Probably the next guy will have it easier because Trump has so lowered the standards, the next guy will be a welcome breathe of fresh air.

Trump has made Obama look competent, Bush look smart and Clinton look ethical. All the next guy has to do is not be a drooling idiot.

 

[playtime]

This shit has gotten progressively worse with time, so the next White House occupant had better strap in.

The nutters are firmly in control now. Enjoy.

Vichy Mac feeling sorry for poor DonnieFuhrer.

Probably the next guy will have it easier because Trump has so lowered the standards, the next guy will be a welcome breathe of fresh air.

Trump has made Obama look competent, Bush look smart and Clinton look ethical. All the next guy has to do is not be a drooling idiot.

elijah cummings said it best at the end of his closing statement :

' we have got to get back to normal '

& that will only start when donny is removed from office.

 

[Cellblock2429]

This shit has gotten progressively worse with time, so the next White House occupant had better strap in.

The nutters are firmly in control now. Enjoy.

Vichy Mac feeling sorry for poor DonnieFuhrer.

Probably the next guy will have it easier because Trump has so lowered the standards, the next guy will be a welcome breathe of fresh air.

Trump has made Obama look competent, Bush look smart and Clinton look ethical. All the next guy has to do is not be a drooling idiot.

elijah cummings said it best at the end of his closing statement :

' we have got to get back to normal '

& that will only start when donny is removed from office.

/——-/ Translation= Libtards want to refill the swamp.

 

[BWK]

This shit has gotten progressively worse with time, so the next White House occupant had better strap in.

The nutters are firmly in control now. Enjoy.

Vichy Mac feeling sorry for poor DonnieFuhrer.

Probably the next guy will have it easier because Trump has so lowered the standards, the next guy will be a welcome breathe of fresh air.

Trump has made Obama look competent, Bush look smart and Clinton look ethical. All the next guy has to do is not be a drooling idiot.

elijah cummings said it best at the end of his closing statement :

' we have got to get back to normal '

& that will only start when donny is removed from office.

/——-/ Translation= Libtards want to refill the swamp.

The glass was half full when Trump got there, now it is overflowing with indicted/convicted swamp creatures.

 

[BWK]

And the nation certainly cannot afford to abandon the Constitution, the rule of law, or a politicians oath to office to serve those people in a representative government. The backlash to irresponsible inaction, is automatic destruction to everything this country holds dear. And if you are resting that inaction on the backs of a criminal, that will rest on your shoulders, not mine. I hold dear my freedoms in this country. I don't support Dictators, murderers, and authoritarians who want to steal my freedoms from me.

Did I somehow argue you should support "Dictators, murderers, and authoritarians who want to steal [your] freedoms"? I genuinely cannot remember having done so.

That is the end result of that inaction is what I am telling you.

trump has conducted himself as if he were in the mob. & uh.... his base is 30% of those who still consider themselves (R)s. that's really not a lot - & it's not looking good for donny. he may not make it till 2020 anyways.

So, you're actually claiming - 30% of the country self-identifying as (R) - that Mafia Don's support is at 9%?

Do you remember what happened to Clinton's support when the Goobers impeached him? And, since Clinton's and Trump's base are vastly different in terms of personality types, the rightarded backlash will be way bigger, and of a different type. Just look at JimBowie1958's OP to see the almost inexplicable aggression engendered by, and directed against, anyone going after their Dear Leader. So, while I really cannot wait to see Mafia Don's frogmarch, I still argue that those who are trying to make it happen do so in light of the societal and political consequences this is likely to bring about. Failing in that might be ruinous, and no claims of the sort, "I was just defending my freedoms", would change that.

 

[OldLady]

Well President Trumps meeting with the Norks went belly up.

No deal: Trump-Kim summit ends abruptly

In the eyes of the world, Trump is being undermined by his own countrymen with calls for impeachment, fake resolutions against his declarations of Emergency that h ave zero chance of actually sticking, and an opposition party that would rather see Americans lose in every negotiation and everything else included rather than to let the President have a single win.

Why should anyone in the world take such a Chief Executive seriously when he cannot achieve the symbolic respect of his own people?

Gone is the ability to talk the Norks into giving up their nukes for concessions, gone is the ability to help guide India and Pakistan away from nuclear war, gone is the ability to negotiate better trade deals for US workers all because Nancy Piglosi and Chucky Schmuker think this is what is required to win in 2020.

This is simply disgusting, disloyal and reckless.

Mike Cohen is a brazen liar, who has been repeatedly caught in perjury and is going to prison for perjury and he has even been disbarred. And the Democrats have turned over the operations of Congress to him and his lawyer Lanny Davis, to try and embarrass Trump with nothing but unsupported claims and unwarranted allegations of wrong doing by a known liar who is obviously wanting to plea deal with his little chip of testimony of betrayal of client privilege.

I have never felt so embarrassed for my country my whole life than I did yesterday with the Democrat Party self immolating our national interests and the interests of her people so they can say once again to the whole planet 'ORANGE MAN BAD!' with ZERO political consequences what so ever, only international consequences as we have seen.

In the meantime India and Pakistan may stumble into nuclear war because these Dimocrats are undermining the probably single man on Earth who can carrot and stick them into peace; and that is our duly elected sitting President, Donald J Trump.

Dimocrats, you are disgusting, you are traitorous, and you are a bunch of fools playing with consequences you cannot fathom all for your political horse shit.

Shame, shame, shame on you, you bloody imbeciles. The sooner you are drubbed into the ash heap of history the better it will be for Mankind.

And for 8 years Trump was claiming that the sitting President of the United States was not even born in this nation. Let me guess...that was principled, and well-reasoned opposition, right?

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

 

[Moonglow]

Well President Trumps meeting with the Norks went belly up.

No deal: Trump-Kim summit ends abruptly

In the eyes of the world, Trump is being undermined by his own countrymen with calls for impeachment, fake resolutions against his declarations of Emergency that h ave zero chance of actually sticking, and an opposition party that would rather see Americans lose in every negotiation and everything else included rather than to let the President have a single win.

Why should anyone in the world take such a Chief Executive seriously when he cannot achieve the symbolic respect of his own people?

Gone is the ability to talk the Norks into giving up their nukes for concessions, gone is the ability to help guide India and Pakistan away from nuclear war, gone is the ability to negotiate better trade deals for US workers all because Nancy Piglosi and Chucky Schmuker think this is what is required to win in 2020.

This is simply disgusting, disloyal and reckless.

Mike Cohen is a brazen liar, who has been repeatedly caught in perjury and is going to prison for perjury and he has even been disbarred. And the Democrats have turned over the operations of Congress to him and his lawyer Lanny Davis, to try and embarrass Trump with nothing but unsupported claims and unwarranted allegations of wrong doing by a known liar who is obviously wanting to plea deal with his little chip of testimony of betrayal of client privilege.

I have never felt so embarrassed for my country my whole life than I did yesterday with the Democrat Party self immolating our national interests and the interests of her people so they can say once again to the whole planet 'ORANGE MAN BAD!' with ZERO political consequences what so ever, only international consequences as we have seen.

In the meantime India and Pakistan may stumble into nuclear war because these Dimocrats are undermining the probably single man on Earth who can carrot and stick them into peace; and that is our duly elected sitting President, Donald J Trump.

Dimocrats, you are disgusting, you are traitorous, and you are a bunch of fools playing with consequences you cannot fathom all for your political horse shit.

Shame, shame, shame on you, you bloody imbeciles. The sooner you are drubbed into the ash heap of history the better it will be for Mankind.

And for 8 years Trump was claiming that the sitting President of the United States was not even born in this nation. Let me guess...that was principled, and well-reasoned opposition, right?

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

They are too busy investigating each other and not legislating.

 

[candycorn]

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

I disagree completely about calling Michael Cohen to testify.

Michael Cohen was his “fixer” which means he negotiated deals for the blob. Why is that important to the US Congress? Our intel agencies have concluded (both Trump’s and Obama’s) that Russia had state-sponsored interference in our elections in 2016 and that the interference attempts continue to this day. This includes both passive propaganda and criminal hacking.

Donald Trump personally has said the following:

1. July 26, 2016: "I mean, I have nothing to do with Russia. I don't have any jobs in Russia. I'm all over the world but we're not involved in Russia," Trump tells CBS4.

2. July 26, 2016: "For the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia," Trump tweets.

3. Oct. 6, 2016: During the second presidential debate, Hillary Clinton says Russia is trying to help elect Trump, "maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow." Trump calls this assessment "so ridiculous," adding, "I know nothing about Russia ... I don't deal there."

4. Oct. 24, 2016: "I have nothing to do with Russia folks, I'll give you a written statement," Trump says at a campaign rally.

5. Jan. 11, 2017: Trump tells reporters that he has "no deals that could happen in Russia because we've stayed away," adding that he could "make deals in Russia very easily" but "I just don't want to because I think that would be a conflict."

6. Jan. 11, 2017: "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!," Trump tweets.

7. Feb. 7, 2017: Trump tweets, "I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy."

8. May 11, 2017: Trump tells NBC News that he has "nothing to do with Russia," other than the fact that he "sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago" and hosted the Miss Universe pageant there once. Brendan Morrow

According to the NYT, Mr. Cohen has stated that wasn’t true:

"According to the documents, Mr. Cohen pursued the project through June 2016 — as Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign gained momentum. At the time, Mr. Cohen served as executive vice president and special counsel for the Trump Organization, which he joined in 2007; he also was a frequent public mouthpiece for the Republican front-runner’s campaign.”

If the mailroom clerk is making the allegations perhaps that’s a “bridge too far”. Trump’s counsel? No.

Couple that with the following from Trump Campaign Communications Director Hope Hicks:

11 November
Trump spokesperson Hope Hicks denies claims from the Kremlin that Trump officials met with its staff.

“It never happened,” Hicks says. “There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

That, of course, has turned out to be completely false as well.

———

Now, if Trump and Hicks (along with the platoons of other Trump campaign officials) have not lied about their involvement…. I could agree with you. They brought this shit storm on themselves. They deserve to be investigated because they have been caught lying time and again.

As to your point of being “a bridge too far”….I do agree with you as far as it goes that we in the US have multiple layers of investigations.

Congress Holds 22 Hearings on the 9/11 Attacks, and 21 on Benghazi

Our system allows for these multiple layers of investigations with committees, special counsels, commissions, departmental investigations, etc… blah blah blah That is something, I wish, would be changed. Let the FBI run all of these investigations. The full findings go to the President and the Gang of 8.

 

[OldLady]

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

I disagree completely about calling Michael Cohen to testify.

Michael Cohen was his “fixer” which means he negotiated deals for the blob. Why is that important to the US Congress? Our intel agencies have concluded (both Trump’s and Obama’s) that Russia had state-sponsored interference in our elections in 2016 and that the interference attempts continue to this day. This includes both passive propaganda and criminal hacking.

Donald Trump personally has said the following:

1. July 26, 2016: "I mean, I have nothing to do with Russia. I don't have any jobs in Russia. I'm all over the world but we're not involved in Russia," Trump tells CBS4.

2. July 26, 2016: "For the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia," Trump tweets.

3. Oct. 6, 2016: During the second presidential debate, Hillary Clinton says Russia is trying to help elect Trump, "maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow." Trump calls this assessment "so ridiculous," adding, "I know nothing about Russia ... I don't deal there."

4. Oct. 24, 2016: "I have nothing to do with Russia folks, I'll give you a written statement," Trump says at a campaign rally.

5. Jan. 11, 2017: Trump tells reporters that he has "no deals that could happen in Russia because we've stayed away," adding that he could "make deals in Russia very easily" but "I just don't want to because I think that would be a conflict."

6. Jan. 11, 2017: "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!," Trump tweets.

7. Feb. 7, 2017: Trump tweets, "I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy."

8. May 11, 2017: Trump tells NBC News that he has "nothing to do with Russia," other than the fact that he "sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago" and hosted the Miss Universe pageant there once. Brendan Morrow

According to the NYT, Mr. Cohen has stated that wasn’t true:

"According to the documents, Mr. Cohen pursued the project through June 2016 — as Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign gained momentum. At the time, Mr. Cohen served as executive vice president and special counsel for the Trump Organization, which he joined in 2007; he also was a frequent public mouthpiece for the Republican front-runner’s campaign.”

If the mailroom clerk is making the allegations perhaps that’s a “bridge too far”. Trump’s counsel? No.

Couple that with the following from Trump Campaign Communications Director Hope Hicks:

11 November
Trump spokesperson Hope Hicks denies claims from the Kremlin that Trump officials met with its staff.

“It never happened,” Hicks says. “There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

That, of course, has turned out to be completely false as well.

———

Now, if Trump and Hicks (along with the platoons of other Trump campaign officials) have not lied about their involvement…. I could agree with you. They brought this shit storm on themselves. They deserve to be investigated because they have been caught lying time and again.

As to your point of being “a bridge too far”….I do agree with you as far as it goes that we in the US have multiple layers of investigations.

Congress Holds 22 Hearings on the 9/11 Attacks, and 21 on Benghazi

Our system allows for these multiple layers of investigations with committees, special counsels, commissions, departmental investigations, etc… blah blah blah That is something, I wish, would be changed. Let the FBI run all of these investigations. The full findings go to the President and the Gang of 8.

I should have been more clear about what I objected to:
I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far
I have no objection to Cohen being called as a witness in the investigation or the closed door sessions, I just think the one on tv for our viewing pleasure was total partisan blood letting, ala Real Housewives. It was a pure set up for the Dems to attack Trump and the Repubs to attack Cohen, and at the end, it still hadn't actually gotten us any further down the road. A lot of people may think "we the American people have the right to know..." and I agree with that, but not this way. If there was no Mueller investigation already going on, and if Mueller had not already had a crack at Cohen, and if Cohen had made any disclosures we were not already aware of, I might feel differently.

I agree with you there are way too many levels of investigations in Congress; most of those investigations are fueled by ego and partisanship, not simple responsibilities.

As usual, there is very little on which we actually disagree.

 

[candycorn]

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

I disagree completely about calling Michael Cohen to testify.

Michael Cohen was his “fixer” which means he negotiated deals for the blob. Why is that important to the US Congress? Our intel agencies have concluded (both Trump’s and Obama’s) that Russia had state-sponsored interference in our elections in 2016 and that the interference attempts continue to this day. This includes both passive propaganda and criminal hacking.

Donald Trump personally has said the following:

1. July 26, 2016: "I mean, I have nothing to do with Russia. I don't have any jobs in Russia. I'm all over the world but we're not involved in Russia," Trump tells CBS4.

2. July 26, 2016: "For the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia," Trump tweets.

3. Oct. 6, 2016: During the second presidential debate, Hillary Clinton says Russia is trying to help elect Trump, "maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow." Trump calls this assessment "so ridiculous," adding, "I know nothing about Russia ... I don't deal there."

4. Oct. 24, 2016: "I have nothing to do with Russia folks, I'll give you a written statement," Trump says at a campaign rally.

5. Jan. 11, 2017: Trump tells reporters that he has "no deals that could happen in Russia because we've stayed away," adding that he could "make deals in Russia very easily" but "I just don't want to because I think that would be a conflict."

6. Jan. 11, 2017: "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!," Trump tweets.

7. Feb. 7, 2017: Trump tweets, "I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy."

8. May 11, 2017: Trump tells NBC News that he has "nothing to do with Russia," other than the fact that he "sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago" and hosted the Miss Universe pageant there once. Brendan Morrow

According to the NYT, Mr. Cohen has stated that wasn’t true:

"According to the documents, Mr. Cohen pursued the project through June 2016 — as Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign gained momentum. At the time, Mr. Cohen served as executive vice president and special counsel for the Trump Organization, which he joined in 2007; he also was a frequent public mouthpiece for the Republican front-runner’s campaign.”

If the mailroom clerk is making the allegations perhaps that’s a “bridge too far”. Trump’s counsel? No.

Couple that with the following from Trump Campaign Communications Director Hope Hicks:

11 November
Trump spokesperson Hope Hicks denies claims from the Kremlin that Trump officials met with its staff.

“It never happened,” Hicks says. “There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

That, of course, has turned out to be completely false as well.

———

Now, if Trump and Hicks (along with the platoons of other Trump campaign officials) have not lied about their involvement…. I could agree with you. They brought this shit storm on themselves. They deserve to be investigated because they have been caught lying time and again.

As to your point of being “a bridge too far”….I do agree with you as far as it goes that we in the US have multiple layers of investigations.

Congress Holds 22 Hearings on the 9/11 Attacks, and 21 on Benghazi

Our system allows for these multiple layers of investigations with committees, special counsels, commissions, departmental investigations, etc… blah blah blah That is something, I wish, would be changed. Let the FBI run all of these investigations. The full findings go to the President and the Gang of 8.

I should have been more clear about what I objected to:
I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far
I have no objection to Cohen being called as a witness in the investigation or the closed door sessions, I just think the one on tv for our viewing pleasure was total partisan blood letting, ala Real Housewives. It was a pure set up for the Dems to attack Trump and the Repubs to attack Cohen, and at the end, it still hadn't actually gotten us any further down the road. A lot of people may think "we the American people have the right to know..." and I agree with that, but not this way. If there was no Mueller investigation already going on, and if Mueller had not already had a crack at Cohen, and if Cohen had made any disclosures we were not already aware of, I might feel differently.

I agree with you there are way too many levels of investigations in Congress; most of those investigations are fueled by ego and partisanship, not simple responsibilities.

As usual, there is very little on which we actually disagree.

Just to put a bow on it, I think “that” is a bridge too far—not wanting the testimony to be made in public.

What’s next? Closed door confirmations for the Supreme Court? Attorney General? These have become political theater as well.

I’m reminded by the very good opening remarks Senator Sasse (sp?) (R-NE) gave at the beginning of the Kav hearings. I disagreed with some of it but his general message was that the Congress isn’t doing it’s job when people feel that judges are wearing uniforms instead of robes. It was fantastic. Then when the Ford stuff came up, the Congress turned around and outsourced it’s job to a prosecutor from Phoenix. I’m sure Ben Sasse was pretty upset by that because I think he crystalized a fundamental problem we have in the nation; nobody takes responsibility in government for what they do; the argument is that “everyone does it so nobody is to blame”. I think he gave a good accounting of himself. Likewise, I think Finestein’s gotcha-movement tarnished her star permanently—at least it did with me. I think Harris’s questioning of Kav was great.

So there is value in public hearings. How much? Dunno. But It does give us an insight to just how petty our legislators are and if it sheds some light on the witnesses as well—that’s good too.

Would you want to go through life without knowing Baker’s famous line about “What did the President know and when did he know it?” It may be apropos again very shortly, no?

 

[BWK]

Well President Trumps meeting with the Norks went belly up.

No deal: Trump-Kim summit ends abruptly

In the eyes of the world, Trump is being undermined by his own countrymen with calls for impeachment, fake resolutions against his declarations of Emergency that h ave zero chance of actually sticking, and an opposition party that would rather see Americans lose in every negotiation and everything else included rather than to let the President have a single win.

Why should anyone in the world take such a Chief Executive seriously when he cannot achieve the symbolic respect of his own people?

Gone is the ability to talk the Norks into giving up their nukes for concessions, gone is the ability to help guide India and Pakistan away from nuclear war, gone is the ability to negotiate better trade deals for US workers all because Nancy Piglosi and Chucky Schmuker think this is what is required to win in 2020.

This is simply disgusting, disloyal and reckless.

Mike Cohen is a brazen liar, who has been repeatedly caught in perjury and is going to prison for perjury and he has even been disbarred. And the Democrats have turned over the operations of Congress to him and his lawyer Lanny Davis, to try and embarrass Trump with nothing but unsupported claims and unwarranted allegations of wrong doing by a known liar who is obviously wanting to plea deal with his little chip of testimony of betrayal of client privilege.

I have never felt so embarrassed for my country my whole life than I did yesterday with the Democrat Party self immolating our national interests and the interests of her people so they can say once again to the whole planet 'ORANGE MAN BAD!' with ZERO political consequences what so ever, only international consequences as we have seen.

In the meantime India and Pakistan may stumble into nuclear war because these Dimocrats are undermining the probably single man on Earth who can carrot and stick them into peace; and that is our duly elected sitting President, Donald J Trump.

Dimocrats, you are disgusting, you are traitorous, and you are a bunch of fools playing with consequences you cannot fathom all for your political horse shit.

Shame, shame, shame on you, you bloody imbeciles. The sooner you are drubbed into the ash heap of history the better it will be for Mankind.

And for 8 years Trump was claiming that the sitting President of the United States was not even born in this nation. Let me guess...that was principled, and well-reasoned opposition, right?

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

Corroborating physical evidence was uncovered. That tells us that checks and balances are being adhered to. It accomplished everything that law enforcement and the Constitution stand for. Truth, justice, and the rule of law. Anyone who deviates from those principles is a traitor to his or her own country.

 

[deanrd]

Is this thread about what Republicans failed to do to Obama?

 

[BWK]

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

I disagree completely about calling Michael Cohen to testify.

Michael Cohen was his “fixer” which means he negotiated deals for the blob. Why is that important to the US Congress? Our intel agencies have concluded (both Trump’s and Obama’s) that Russia had state-sponsored interference in our elections in 2016 and that the interference attempts continue to this day. This includes both passive propaganda and criminal hacking.

Donald Trump personally has said the following:

1. July 26, 2016: "I mean, I have nothing to do with Russia. I don't have any jobs in Russia. I'm all over the world but we're not involved in Russia," Trump tells CBS4.

2. July 26, 2016: "For the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia," Trump tweets.

3. Oct. 6, 2016: During the second presidential debate, Hillary Clinton says Russia is trying to help elect Trump, "maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow." Trump calls this assessment "so ridiculous," adding, "I know nothing about Russia ... I don't deal there."

4. Oct. 24, 2016: "I have nothing to do with Russia folks, I'll give you a written statement," Trump says at a campaign rally.

5. Jan. 11, 2017: Trump tells reporters that he has "no deals that could happen in Russia because we've stayed away," adding that he could "make deals in Russia very easily" but "I just don't want to because I think that would be a conflict."

6. Jan. 11, 2017: "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!," Trump tweets.

7. Feb. 7, 2017: Trump tweets, "I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy."

8. May 11, 2017: Trump tells NBC News that he has "nothing to do with Russia," other than the fact that he "sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago" and hosted the Miss Universe pageant there once. Brendan Morrow

According to the NYT, Mr. Cohen has stated that wasn’t true:

"According to the documents, Mr. Cohen pursued the project through June 2016 — as Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign gained momentum. At the time, Mr. Cohen served as executive vice president and special counsel for the Trump Organization, which he joined in 2007; he also was a frequent public mouthpiece for the Republican front-runner’s campaign.”

If the mailroom clerk is making the allegations perhaps that’s a “bridge too far”. Trump’s counsel? No.

Couple that with the following from Trump Campaign Communications Director Hope Hicks:

11 November
Trump spokesperson Hope Hicks denies claims from the Kremlin that Trump officials met with its staff.

“It never happened,” Hicks says. “There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

That, of course, has turned out to be completely false as well.

———

Now, if Trump and Hicks (along with the platoons of other Trump campaign officials) have not lied about their involvement…. I could agree with you. They brought this shit storm on themselves. They deserve to be investigated because they have been caught lying time and again.

As to your point of being “a bridge too far”….I do agree with you as far as it goes that we in the US have multiple layers of investigations.

Congress Holds 22 Hearings on the 9/11 Attacks, and 21 on Benghazi

Our system allows for these multiple layers of investigations with committees, special counsels, commissions, departmental investigations, etc… blah blah blah That is something, I wish, would be changed. Let the FBI run all of these investigations. The full findings go to the President and the Gang of 8.

I should have been more clear about what I objected to:
I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far
I have no objection to Cohen being called as a witness in the investigation or the closed door sessions, I just think the one on tv for our viewing pleasure was total partisan blood letting, ala Real Housewives. It was a pure set up for the Dems to attack Trump and the Repubs to attack Cohen, and at the end, it still hadn't actually gotten us any further down the road. A lot of people may think "we the American people have the right to know..." and I agree with that, but not this way. If there was no Mueller investigation already going on, and if Mueller had not already had a crack at Cohen, and if Cohen had made any disclosures we were not already aware of, I might feel differently.

I agree with you there are way too many levels of investigations in Congress; most of those investigations are fueled by ego and partisanship, not simple responsibilities.

As usual, there is very little on which we actually disagree.

Just to put a bow on it, I think “that” is a bridge too far—not wanting the testimony to be made in public.

What’s next? Closed door confirmations for the Supreme Court? Attorney General? These have become political theater as well.

I’m reminded by the very good opening remarks Senator Sasse (sp?) (R-NE) gave at the beginning of the Kav hearings. I disagreed with some of it but his general message was that the Congress isn’t doing it’s job when people feel that judges are wearing uniforms instead of robes. It was fantastic. Then when the Ford stuff came up, the Congress turned around and outsourced it’s job to a prosecutor from Phoenix. I’m sure Ben Sasse was pretty upset by that because I think he crystalized a fundamental problem we have in the nation; nobody takes responsibility in government for what they do; the argument is that “everyone does it so nobody is to blame”. I think he gave a good accounting of himself. Likewise, I think Finestein’s gotcha-movement tarnished her star permanently—at least it did with me. I think Harris’s questioning of Kav was great.

So there is value in public hearings. How much? Dunno. But It does give us an insight to just how petty our legislators are and if it sheds some light on the witnesses as well—that’s good too.

Would you want to go through life without knowing Baker’s famous line about “What did the President know and when did he know it?” It may be apropos again very shortly, no?

I think Cohen's testimony gave us some mighty powerful evidence about that.

 

[OldLady]

I have some sympathy for Jim's position--I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far and accomplished nothing. What Jim is NOT seeing is that the Republicans are JUST as bad, just as guilty and just as shameful. It's partisanship run amok.

I disagree completely about calling Michael Cohen to testify.

Michael Cohen was his “fixer” which means he negotiated deals for the blob. Why is that important to the US Congress? Our intel agencies have concluded (both Trump’s and Obama’s) that Russia had state-sponsored interference in our elections in 2016 and that the interference attempts continue to this day. This includes both passive propaganda and criminal hacking.

Donald Trump personally has said the following:

1. July 26, 2016: "I mean, I have nothing to do with Russia. I don't have any jobs in Russia. I'm all over the world but we're not involved in Russia," Trump tells CBS4.

2. July 26, 2016: "For the record, I have ZERO investments in Russia," Trump tweets.

3. Oct. 6, 2016: During the second presidential debate, Hillary Clinton says Russia is trying to help elect Trump, "maybe because he wants to do business in Moscow." Trump calls this assessment "so ridiculous," adding, "I know nothing about Russia ... I don't deal there."

4. Oct. 24, 2016: "I have nothing to do with Russia folks, I'll give you a written statement," Trump says at a campaign rally.

5. Jan. 11, 2017: Trump tells reporters that he has "no deals that could happen in Russia because we've stayed away," adding that he could "make deals in Russia very easily" but "I just don't want to because I think that would be a conflict."

6. Jan. 11, 2017: "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!," Trump tweets.

7. Feb. 7, 2017: Trump tweets, "I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy."

8. May 11, 2017: Trump tells NBC News that he has "nothing to do with Russia," other than the fact that he "sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago" and hosted the Miss Universe pageant there once. Brendan Morrow

According to the NYT, Mr. Cohen has stated that wasn’t true:

"According to the documents, Mr. Cohen pursued the project through June 2016 — as Mr. Trump’s presidential campaign gained momentum. At the time, Mr. Cohen served as executive vice president and special counsel for the Trump Organization, which he joined in 2007; he also was a frequent public mouthpiece for the Republican front-runner’s campaign.”

If the mailroom clerk is making the allegations perhaps that’s a “bridge too far”. Trump’s counsel? No.

Couple that with the following from Trump Campaign Communications Director Hope Hicks:

11 November
Trump spokesperson Hope Hicks denies claims from the Kremlin that Trump officials met with its staff.

“It never happened,” Hicks says. “There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

That, of course, has turned out to be completely false as well.

———

Now, if Trump and Hicks (along with the platoons of other Trump campaign officials) have not lied about their involvement…. I could agree with you. They brought this shit storm on themselves. They deserve to be investigated because they have been caught lying time and again.

As to your point of being “a bridge too far”….I do agree with you as far as it goes that we in the US have multiple layers of investigations.

Congress Holds 22 Hearings on the 9/11 Attacks, and 21 on Benghazi

Our system allows for these multiple layers of investigations with committees, special counsels, commissions, departmental investigations, etc… blah blah blah That is something, I wish, would be changed. Let the FBI run all of these investigations. The full findings go to the President and the Gang of 8.

I should have been more clear about what I objected to:
I too felt the Cohen public testimony was a bridge too far
I have no objection to Cohen being called as a witness in the investigation or the closed door sessions, I just think the one on tv for our viewing pleasure was total partisan blood letting, ala Real Housewives. It was a pure set up for the Dems to attack Trump and the Repubs to attack Cohen, and at the end, it still hadn't actually gotten us any further down the road. A lot of people may think "we the American people have the right to know..." and I agree with that, but not this way. If there was no Mueller investigation already going on, and if Mueller had not already had a crack at Cohen, and if Cohen had made any disclosures we were not already aware of, I might feel differently.

I agree with you there are way too many levels of investigations in Congress; most of those investigations are fueled by ego and partisanship, not simple responsibilities.

As usual, there is very little on which we actually disagree.

Just to put a bow on it, I think “that” is a bridge too far—not wanting the testimony to be made in public.

What’s next? Closed door confirmations for the Supreme Court? Attorney General? These have become political theater as well.

I’m reminded by the very good opening remarks Senator Sasse (sp?) (R-NE) gave at the beginning of the Kav hearings. I disagreed with some of it but his general message was that the Congress isn’t doing it’s job when people feel that judges are wearing uniforms instead of robes. It was fantastic. Then when the Ford stuff came up, the Congress turned around and outsourced it’s job to a prosecutor from Phoenix. I’m sure Ben Sasse was pretty upset by that because I think he crystalized a fundamental problem we have in the nation; nobody takes responsibility in government for what they do; the argument is that “everyone does it so nobody is to blame”. I think he gave a good accounting of himself. Likewise, I think Finestein’s gotcha-movement tarnished her star permanently—at least it did with me. I think Harris’s questioning of Kav was great.

So there is value in public hearings. How much? Dunno. But It does give us an insight to just how petty our legislators are and if it sheds some light on the witnesses as well—that’s good too.

Would you want to go through life without knowing Baker’s famous line about “What did the President know and when did he know it?” It may be apropos again very shortly, no?

Confirmations are a horse of a different color, Candycorn. I think the folks in D.C. are being held accountable by Mueller (or at least he's giving a pretty good impression of it if he's not) and he will be giving us his evidence. To me, that is enough. It's just my opinion.

 

[playtime]

This shit has gotten progressively worse with time, so the next White House occupant had better strap in.

The nutters are firmly in control now. Enjoy.

Vichy Mac feeling sorry for poor DonnieFuhrer.

Probably the next guy will have it easier because Trump has so lowered the standards, the next guy will be a welcome breathe of fresh air.

Trump has made Obama look competent, Bush look smart and Clinton look ethical. All the next guy has to do is not be a drooling idiot.

elijah cummings said it best at the end of his closing statement :

' we have got to get back to normal '

& that will only start when donny is removed from office.

/——-/ Translation= Libtards want to refill the swamp.

who you kidding ---- donny has completely surrounded himself with swamp creatures & cesspool slime.