The Coup against Trump part 2, The CDC edition, use the virus to shut down economy....

[2aguy]

The measures being taken here are being taken all over the planet right now.

This isn't a plot against Trump. If it is it is the most dastardly plot ever, beyond even a James Bond villain level plot.

Seriously, c'mon. We need level-headedness right now more than quite literally ever in the past couple of decades.

I don't like a lot of this either, and do find myself thinking the cure may be worse than the disease, but I do not think the CDC and medical community would be complicit in some plot to destroy the world economy to 'get Trump'.

The WHO and CDC are the only mechanisms we have in place to formulate a plan and deal with this. They're it. In the same way the left has to accept that Trump is the guy in the chair right now, like it or not, these organizations are the ones the world will look to to plot a course forward here.

Do you think the FBI used information from the DNC and Hilary clinton...which they knew was false.....to get illegal warrants to spy on Trump and his people? Do you think they used foreign assets to approach Carter Page, and FBI agents to entrap General Flynn? That they used the Steele Dossier fake information with James Comey to brief Trump so they could then give the press a reason to report on the fake information and as Comey stated, to get a special prosecutor appointed?

To think that the anti-Trumpers wouldn't put out extreme guidelines to spook Wall Street, scare businesses and to give Democrat party governors the pretext to shut down schools and major sectors of their economies is just silly......

I think the anti-Trumpers would do a lot, quite literally whatever they could, to get him out of office. We're not in disagreement there. A lot of what we've seen since the guy won is despicable, including the obvious attempt in the early days of this for the left to use this as a political tool. No doubt in my mind and I've said so emphatically on this board.

But, I do not think anti-Trumpers are shutting down Italy, shut down China etc., shut down Europe.

In the context of a pandemic, I think this got out of control, we have to tamp it down to get past the acceleration phase and start reducing the rate of infection, and there are few options other than what we're seeing in terms keeping people away from one another than can achieve that end.

Trump took similar steps on his own. Stopped travel from China, stopped travel from Europe etc. These things, if viewed from an economic perspective, could be seen as causing damage. That's to try to stop new cases coming in. On a local level we're trying to stop new cases and slow this as well.

I do not think these steps are political in nature, but are the only admittedly lousy options we have at this point.

And the FBI simply used the Steele Dossier to get FISA warrants because they were doing their job? And Comey briefed the President on the Steele Dossier to be helpful...not to be able to tell James Brennan he could tell the press they could now run with the pee on the bed story....and initiate a special prosecutor?

 

[The Purge]

Face it for 3 years the the DeathRATS along with the commies have tried to get rid of Trump and nothing worked.....well BLOWING UP THE WORLD ECONOMICALLY is as close as they can get to assassination of our president. We all have heard that the regular flu kills more that this variety. But the left is going to push us into a huge economic hole in the plea to save thousands, instead of the hundreds of thousands of flu victims a year.....and strange how this MANUFACTURED MENACE seems to work most effectively on the OLD, Esprcially the Chinese old which their government wants gone as now unproductive and a huge drain on the communist system....Now dont forget about shutting down almost anything that has to do with 50 or more people attending an event to cause that fiscal panic!......The politicians in charge of this coordinated effort were pure EVIL GENIUSES!

You need not be a rocket scientist to see where these 2 powers have joined hands to end Trumps triumphs

 

[Fueri]

The measures being taken here are being taken all over the planet right now.

This isn't a plot against Trump. If it is it is the most dastardly plot ever, beyond even a James Bond villain level plot.

Seriously, c'mon. We need level-headedness right now more than quite literally ever in the past couple of decades.

I don't like a lot of this either, and do find myself thinking the cure may be worse than the disease, but I do not think the CDC and medical community would be complicit in some plot to destroy the world economy to 'get Trump'.

The WHO and CDC are the only mechanisms we have in place to formulate a plan and deal with this. They're it. In the same way the left has to accept that Trump is the guy in the chair right now, like it or not, these organizations are the ones the world will look to to plot a course forward here.

Do you think the FBI used information from the DNC and Hilary clinton...which they knew was false.....to get illegal warrants to spy on Trump and his people? Do you think they used foreign assets to approach Carter Page, and FBI agents to entrap General Flynn? That they used the Steele Dossier fake information with James Comey to brief Trump so they could then give the press a reason to report on the fake information and as Comey stated, to get a special prosecutor appointed?

To think that the anti-Trumpers wouldn't put out extreme guidelines to spook Wall Street, scare businesses and to give Democrat party governors the pretext to shut down schools and major sectors of their economies is just silly......

I think the anti-Trumpers would do a lot, quite literally whatever they could, to get him out of office. We're not in disagreement there. A lot of what we've seen since the guy won is despicable, including the obvious attempt in the early days of this for the left to use this as a political tool. No doubt in my mind and I've said so emphatically on this board.

But, I do not think anti-Trumpers are shutting down Italy, shut down China etc., shut down Europe.

In the context of a pandemic, I think this got out of control, we have to tamp it down to get past the acceleration phase and start reducing the rate of infection, and there are few options other than what we're seeing in terms keeping people away from one another than can achieve that end.

Trump took similar steps on his own. Stopped travel from China, stopped travel from Europe etc. These things, if viewed from an economic perspective, could be seen as causing damage. That's to try to stop new cases coming in. On a local level we're trying to stop new cases and slow this as well.

I do not think these steps are political in nature, but are the only admittedly lousy options we have at this point.

And the FBI simply used the Steele Dossier to get FISA warrants because they were doing their job? And Comey briefed the President on the Steele Dossier to be helpful...not to be able to tell James Brennan he could tell the press they could now run with the pee on the bed story....and initiate a special prosecutor?

I'm not in any way defending that ridiculous shit-show. never said a word about it.

 

[Fueri]

The measures being taken here are being taken all over the planet right now.

This isn't a plot against Trump. If it is it is the most dastardly plot ever, beyond even a James Bond villain level plot.

Seriously, c'mon. We need level-headedness right now more than quite literally ever in the past couple of decades.

I don't like a lot of this either, and do find myself thinking the cure may be worse than the disease, but I do not think the CDC and medical community would be complicit in some plot to destroy the world economy to 'get Trump'.

The WHO and CDC are the only mechanisms we have in place to formulate a plan and deal with this. They're it. In the same way the left has to accept that Trump is the guy in the chair right now, like it or not, these organizations are the ones the world will look to to plot a course forward here.

Do you think the FBI used information from the DNC and Hilary clinton...which they knew was false.....to get illegal warrants to spy on Trump and his people? Do you think they used foreign assets to approach Carter Page, and FBI agents to entrap General Flynn? That they used the Steele Dossier fake information with James Comey to brief Trump so they could then give the press a reason to report on the fake information and as Comey stated, to get a special prosecutor appointed?

To think that the anti-Trumpers wouldn't put out extreme guidelines to spook Wall Street, scare businesses and to give Democrat party governors the pretext to shut down schools and major sectors of their economies is just silly......

I think the anti-Trumpers would do a lot, quite literally whatever they could, to get him out of office. We're not in disagreement there. A lot of what we've seen since the guy won is despicable, including the obvious attempt in the early days of this for the left to use this as a political tool. No doubt in my mind and I've said so emphatically on this board.

But, I do not think anti-Trumpers are shutting down Italy, shut down China etc., shut down Europe.

In the context of a pandemic, I think this got out of control, we have to tamp it down to get past the acceleration phase and start reducing the rate of infection, and there are few options other than what we're seeing in terms keeping people away from one another than can achieve that end.

Trump took similar steps on his own. Stopped travel from China, stopped travel from Europe etc. These things, if viewed from an economic perspective, could be seen as causing damage. That's to try to stop new cases coming in. On a local level we're trying to stop new cases and slow this as well.

I do not think these steps are political in nature, but are the only admittedly lousy options we have at this point.

I did not say they were shutting down those countries.........

I stated they are using their guidelines here to shut down the American economy out of all proportion to the threat of this virus...as oldstyle is pointing out, we didn't do any of this for the Swine Flu.......or any other outbreak........until Trump was in office.....

I don't totally disagree. I don't think it's political and outlined why, in the context of a pandemic, they are doing what they're doing.

in this case, there is literally no way for me, or anyone, to prove that the CDC, or anyone, isn't doing something. Proving a negative is difficult to the extreme, if not impossible.

without hard evidence that this is some sort of plot against Trump I do, and will, find it hard very to believe that the CDC would crash the economy to 'get Trump'



You stated your opinion, and likely won't change it. I stated mine, and won't change it without hard evidence, so we can agree to disagree on this one....

 

[Oldstyle]

It's amazing to me that you on the left will actually even TRY to claim that Obama's response to the Swine flu was in any way superior to what Trump has done! Do ANY of you remember the mass hysteria happening THEN that is happening now? Do you remember the shutting down of airlines, our cruise industry, our bars and restaurants? Do you remember panic buying of goods? You don't because NONE of that ever happened! Why? Because this wasn't treated AT ALL the same way be the main stream media!

There was no mass hysteria. Because there was a competent individual in the White House who took action immediately. I'd like to note, I'm being as fair as I can to you with these sources.
Trump’s H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic Spin

You keep saying that, Jack...yet you can't come up with a single thing that Obama did for the Swine flu that Trump hasn't done for this virus! You're a partisan hack. Either back up your claims or tuck your tail and run!

 

[Oldstyle]

It's amazing to me that you on the left will actually even TRY to claim that Obama's response to the Swine flu was in any way superior to what Trump has done! Do ANY of you remember the mass hysteria happening THEN that is happening now? Do you remember the shutting down of airlines, our cruise industry, our bars and restaurants? Do you remember panic buying of goods? You don't because NONE of that ever happened! Why? Because this wasn't treated AT ALL the same way be the main stream media!

There was no mass hysteria. Because there was a competent individual in the White House who took action immediately. I'd like to note, I'm being as fair as I can to you with these sources.
Trump’s H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic Spin

Your source states that it took six months for a vaccine to be developed for the Swine flu? Interesting since another source is saying that the first person was given a vaccine for THIS virus and that took place yesterday! Has it been six months since the start of the Corona virus, Jack? How long did it take before a State of Emergency Order was issued by the Obama Administration? How long did it take before the Trump Administration did so? Once again...Trump was FAR out ahead of what Barry did back then! Did Obama ever impose travel restrictions? What DID Barack Obama do while 17,000 Americans died from the Swine flu? Yet you have the nerve to come here and critique Trump when less than fifty people have died from this virus?

 

[Oldstyle]

What's amusing to me is that I firmly believe that this ploy by the main stream media will end up just like their other ploys to get Donald Trump out of the Oval Office! The virus will run it's course in several months...the economy will come roaring back and in the Fall when the election draws near people will be looking back at this whole farce and wonder what the fuss was all about.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

It's amazing to me that you on the left will actually even TRY to claim that Obama's response to the Swine flu was in any way superior to what Trump has done! Do ANY of you remember the mass hysteria happening THEN that is happening now? Do you remember the shutting down of airlines, our cruise industry, our bars and restaurants? Do you remember panic buying of goods? You don't because NONE of that ever happened! Why? Because this wasn't treated AT ALL the same way be the main stream media!

There was no mass hysteria. Because there was a competent individual in the White House who took action immediately. I'd like to note, I'm being as fair as I can to you with these sources.
Trump’s H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic Spin

You keep saying that, Jack...yet you can't come up with a single thing that Obama did for the Swine flu that Trump hasn't done for this virus! You're a partisan hack. Either back up your claims or tuck your tail and run!

All given to you in both articles I lined from sources that are very friendly to conservatives. Repeating the same baloney over and over again doesn't change facts.

 

[Oldstyle]

It's amazing to me that you on the left will actually even TRY to claim that Obama's response to the Swine flu was in any way superior to what Trump has done! Do ANY of you remember the mass hysteria happening THEN that is happening now? Do you remember the shutting down of airlines, our cruise industry, our bars and restaurants? Do you remember panic buying of goods? You don't because NONE of that ever happened! Why? Because this wasn't treated AT ALL the same way be the main stream media!

There was no mass hysteria. Because there was a competent individual in the White House who took action immediately. I'd like to note, I'm being as fair as I can to you with these sources.
Trump’s H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic Spin

You keep saying that, Jack...yet you can't come up with a single thing that Obama did for the Swine flu that Trump hasn't done for this virus! You're a partisan hack. Either back up your claims or tuck your tail and run!

All given to you in both articles I lined from sources that are very friendly to conservatives. Repeating the same baloney over and over again doesn't change facts.

Oh, you're one of THOSE guys, Jack! The kind that cites a source that you declare backs up your claims yet when someone asks you WHERE it actually does so...you declare that you can't be bothered to show where that was? Just what we need...another partisan blowhard...

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Funny how near-sighted our Trump fanatics here are. Did the Chinese shut down their economy to get rid of XiJinping? How about the Europeans?

The fact is the attempt to slow the spread of this virus worked in China (at least so far) and hopefully "social distancing" will work here and in Europe. Maybe the warm weather will help too, as we all should hope. But nobody knows for sure. Our health system is a patchwork, and our central government is unable and unwilling to follow up and treat or quarantine every infected person and take other draconian measures as in China.

The panic here may get much worse than in China, where the population has a different culture and historical experiences and more readily accept sacrifices and the need to be on a war footing. The economic damage here will be immense, especially because our financial system may collapse like an inflated balloon. But we should do better than China given we are per capita far wealthier, have a more developed health system, are not so crowded together in cities and small apartments, and have had forewarning. We shall see.

If this gets out of control, of course it will not be like the plague, and it will mostly be our older folks who will die. Some of those old folks have the big money and power in society, however, and even Trump is now afraid of letting this thing spread in an unrestrained fashion, overwhelm our hospitals, and kill hundreds of thousands or maybe even a million oldsters. That is probably what some cynical young people advocate, however, though they do not usually say it outright.

 

[HenryBHough]

This "crisis" will be used to impose new CONTROL on your life. Those will not be temporary. When there is no longer any threat from "the virus" the controls will remain. You will live under a bureaucrat's thumb. It will take a violent revolution to restore our alienated rights.

Are you surprised?

 

[Oldstyle]

Funny how near-sighted our Trump fanatics here are. Did the Chinese shut down their economy to get rid of XiJinping? How about the Europeans?

The fact is the attempt to slow the spread of this virus worked in China (at least so far) and hopefully "social distancing" will work here and in Europe. Maybe the warm weather will help too, as we all should hope. But nobody knows for sure. Our health system is a patchwork, and our central government is unable and unwilling to follow up and treat or quarantine every infected person and take other draconian measures as in China.

The panic here may get much worse than in China, where the population has a different culture and historical experiences and more readily accept sacrifices and the need to be on a war footing. The economic damage here will be immense, especially because our financial system may collapse like an inflated balloon. But we should do better than China given we are per capita far wealthier, have a more developed health system, are not so crowded together in cities and small apartments, and have had forewarning. We shall see.

If this gets out of control, of course it will not be like the plague, and it will mostly be our older folks who will die. Some of those old folks have the big money and power in society, however, and even Trump is now afraid of letting this thing spread in an unrestrained fashion, overwhelm our hospitals, and kill hundreds of thousands or maybe even a million oldsters. That is probably what some cynical young people advocate, however, though they do not usually say it outright.

With all due respect, Tom...would you like to explain to me why THIS virus demands the destruction of our economy when the Swine Flu, the Equine Flu and the Bird Flu did not? What the hell are we doing? People need to take the same precautions for this flu outbreak as they do for the countless OTHER viruses that we deal with every single year! If you're elderly or in bad health...then you need to protect yourself. It you're neither of those things then get on with your life!

 

[Oldstyle]

And for the love of god...stop hoarding toilet paper! WTF is wrong with you people!!!

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

It's amazing to me that you on the left will actually even TRY to claim that Obama's response to the Swine flu was in any way superior to what Trump has done! Do ANY of you remember the mass hysteria happening THEN that is happening now? Do you remember the shutting down of airlines, our cruise industry, our bars and restaurants? Do you remember panic buying of goods? You don't because NONE of that ever happened! Why? Because this wasn't treated AT ALL the same way be the main stream media!

There was no mass hysteria. Because there was a competent individual in the White House who took action immediately. I'd like to note, I'm being as fair as I can to you with these sources.
Trump’s H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic Spin

You keep saying that, Jack...yet you can't come up with a single thing that Obama did for the Swine flu that Trump hasn't done for this virus! You're a partisan hack. Either back up your claims or tuck your tail and run!

All given to you in both articles I lined from sources that are very friendly to conservatives. Repeating the same baloney over and over again doesn't change facts.

Oh, you're one of THOSE guys, Jack! The kind that cites a source that you declare backs up your claims yet when someone asks you WHERE it actually does so...you declare that you can't be bothered to show where that was? Just what we need...another partisan blowhard...

Ok. Let me try a different tack. I promise this my last swing at the plate. He's your guy. I get it. He can do no wrong. And again, this is actually a fair article. I will concede points 1 and 2, even though Trump brushed off the seriousness of the virus for several weeks. Pay close attention to point #3 of what Obama did right and contrast that with what Trump didn't do, until forced to on Friday. THAT is why we are behind the curve and that's why Trump gets the blame.

Trump said Obama team botched H1N1 swine flu response, but is it true?

 

[anynameyouwish]

Democrat mayors can’t wait to cause chaos

conservative play book;

when you can't defend...ATTACK with LIES and FALSE ACCUSATIONS!

 

[Bo Didleysquat]

We know that the leadership of the FBI under obama, working with the leadership, john brennan, of the CIA, and members of the State Department, worked with the DNC and hilary to create fake information about Trump to initiate illegal surveillance against him and his people ....... this was later used to initiate a years long fake investigation by robert mueller which was then followed up by a fake impeachment to remove him from office.....

How do we know that these same elements...now in the Centers For Disease Control, aren't using the virus as a way to attack Trump.....the Coup Part 2?

We know that if you get the virus, you get a fever, a cough, and after a few days you get better....and yes...if you are a senior citizen with underlying conditions, you are at more severe risk...but that is true of the seasonal flu....

How do we know that the measures they are calling for, which are shutting down major sectors of the economy, aren't motivated more by getting Trump, than by realistically dealing with the virus?

The economy was one of Trump's strongest points....and now, through the measures pushed by the CDC, major sectors of the economy are being shut down, and the measures are now being used by democrat governors to shut down state level economies.....

Is this part of the Coup 2?

The natural world may indeed be anti-Trump, a retroviral conspiracy is not out of the question. I have no idea how to use my guns against this, any other good guys with guns got any ideas?

 

[dblack]

We know that the leadership of the FBI under obama, working with the leadership, john brennan, of the CIA, and members of the State Department, worked with the DNC and hilary to create fake information about Trump to initiate illegal surveillance against him and his people ....... this was later used to initiate a years long fake investigation by robert mueller which was then followed up by a fake impeachment to remove him from office.....

How do we know that these same elements...now in the Centers For Disease Control, aren't using the virus as a way to attack Trump.....the Coup Part 2?

We know that if you get the virus, you get a fever, a cough, and after a few days you get better....and yes...if you are a senior citizen with underlying conditions, you are at more severe risk...but that is true of the seasonal flu....

How do we know that the measures they are calling for, which are shutting down major sectors of the economy, aren't motivated more by getting Trump, than by realistically dealing with the virus?

The economy was one of Trump's strongest points....and now, through the measures pushed by the CDC, major sectors of the economy are being shut down, and the measures are now being used by democrat governors to shut down state level economies.....

Is this part of the Coup 2?

Ah.. another excuse-making propaganda thread.

Fuck off and die. Please don't take that as a figure of speech.

 

[Oldstyle]

It's amazing to me that you on the left will actually even TRY to claim that Obama's response to the Swine flu was in any way superior to what Trump has done! Do ANY of you remember the mass hysteria happening THEN that is happening now? Do you remember the shutting down of airlines, our cruise industry, our bars and restaurants? Do you remember panic buying of goods? You don't because NONE of that ever happened! Why? Because this wasn't treated AT ALL the same way be the main stream media!

There was no mass hysteria. Because there was a competent individual in the White House who took action immediately. I'd like to note, I'm being as fair as I can to you with these sources.
Trump’s H1N1 Swine Flu Pandemic Spin

You keep saying that, Jack...yet you can't come up with a single thing that Obama did for the Swine flu that Trump hasn't done for this virus! You're a partisan hack. Either back up your claims or tuck your tail and run!

All given to you in both articles I lined from sources that are very friendly to conservatives. Repeating the same baloney over and over again doesn't change facts.

Oh, you're one of THOSE guys, Jack! The kind that cites a source that you declare backs up your claims yet when someone asks you WHERE it actually does so...you declare that you can't be bothered to show where that was? Just what we need...another partisan blowhard...

Ok. Let me try a different tack. I promise this my last swing at the plate. He's your guy. I get it. He can do no wrong. And again, this is actually a fair article. I will concede points 1 and 2, even though Trump brushed off the seriousness of the virus for several weeks. Pay close attention to point #3 of what Obama did right and contrast that with what Trump didn't do, until forced to on Friday. THAT is why we are behind the curve and that's why Trump gets the blame.

Trump said Obama team botched H1N1 swine flu response, but is it true?

That article is the best you could come up with? Why did you even bother? The truth is that the biggest problem with the Obama response to the Swine flu was that it took them forever to get vaccines produced and distributed. Other than that they pretty much did what every OTHER administration has done when faced with a virus outbreak! I'm not faulting Barry's response to the Swine flu...I'm simply pointing out that Trump has done more to combat this virus than Obama did...yet you on the left are attacking him for his efforts.

I ask again...what did Obama do that Trump has not?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Funny how near-sighted our Trump fanatics here are. Did the Chinese shut down their economy to get rid of XiJinping? How about the Europeans?

The fact is the attempt to slow the spread of this virus worked in China (at least so far) and hopefully "social distancing" will work here and in Europe. Maybe the warm weather will help too, as we all should hope. But nobody knows for sure. Our health system is a patchwork, and our central government is unable and unwilling to follow up and treat or quarantine every infected person and take other draconian measures as in China.

The panic here may get much worse than in China, where the population has a different culture and historical experiences and more readily accept sacrifices and the need to be on a war footing. The economic damage here will be immense, especially because our financial system may collapse like an inflated balloon. But we should do better than China given we are per capita far wealthier, have a more developed health system, are not so crowded together in cities and small apartments, and have had forewarning. We shall see.

If this gets out of control, of course it will not be like the plague, and it will mostly be our older folks who will die. Some of those old folks have the big money and power in society, however, and even Trump is now afraid of letting this thing spread in an unrestrained fashion, overwhelm our hospitals, and kill hundreds of thousands or maybe even a million oldsters. That is probably what some cynical young people advocate, however, though they do not usually say it outright.

With all due respect, Tom...would you like to explain to me why THIS virus demands the destruction of our economy when the Swine Flu, the Equine Flu and the Bird Flu did not? What the hell are we doing? People need to take the same precautions for this flu outbreak as they do for the countless OTHER viruses that we deal with every single year! If you're elderly or in bad health...then you need to protect yourself. It you're neither of those things then get on with your life!

Good question. The "destruction of the economy" is something nobody wants, Trump certainly doesn't want that. The Chinese didn't want it either. There were charges that WHO overhyped and too early called the 2009 "Swine Flu" H1N1 outbreak "a pandemic" causing unnecessary panic, just as now some Trump supporters argue Obama was too slow to act since some 12,000 Americans reportedly died of it. But Swine flu had a fatality rate far far lower than even regular flu (some .01%-.03%) and this new coronavirus may have a real fatality rate far far higher (possibly 2%). Some 10-20% of the world's population [maybe 20% in the U.S.] eventually caught Swine Flu (according to Wiki), yet in the U.S. our hospital system was never overwhelmed. I'm no expert, but experience in Italy and China seem to indicate that strong social restrictions are important in preventing a worst case scenario.

Even without any government activity, however, people and businesses would themselves take strong measures, and the economy will take a body blow. For example Trump claimed, correctly, that he was right to early cut off tourist travel from China, but the airlines were already canceling flights then, as pilots and crews were demanding this action. I lived in China for eight years and know how much economic and social sacrifice it took to stop the spread there. Yet they succeeded (at least so far).

It isn't easy to make the right call concerning "shutting down," or to know when to open up again. If the virus is limited folks will say we went too far. If it kills hundreds of thousands or even a million, they will scream we did too little. That is just the political reality in fighting epidemics.

 

[HenryBHough]

If your fave local bar or restaurant is still open it would nice to stop by tomorrow and say "goodbye" to the staff you're come to know as friends. Many won't be coming back since the marginal businesses will not reopen once this political circus ends. If it ends.....too much power to be savored by Pelosi and her accomplices to let it go gracefully!