The Conservative Contradiction

[Jarhead]

Could be...

What is your proposed alternative? Prohibit birth control to teens? Keep them in the dark about sex and hope they don't figure it out?
The reason the teen pregnancy rate keeps going up is that teens like to ****. For some reason, they enjoy it. The negative social scandle of a teen getting pregnant is no longer there. The family is no longer humiliated if their daughter gets pregnant....ask Sarah Palin

Why? What happened to it? And who led the charge to get rid of it?

I think the pro-life movement should take some credit for that. They encourage women to carry their pregnancies to term.

I see it as a positive sign.

Back in the days when abortion was illegal getting pregnant out of wedlock was a fate worse than death.

Now women have more choices and they increasingly choose to continue their pregnancies. Single parenthood doesn't have the stigma it once did.

I agree as it pertains to single women pregnancies.

I believe, however, the questionm is why TEEN pregnancies are no longer the "taboo" they used to be.

Whereas the birth of a child is a beautiful thing, the birth oif a child by another child will likely create financial hardship and the loss of some of the "innocent" years that are important in ones development as they approach adulthood.

I can not imagine life at the age of 16 or 17 if I had the responsibility of a child.

 

[Newby]

Could be...

What is your proposed alternative? Prohibit birth control to teens? Keep them in the dark about sex and hope they don't figure it out?
The reason the teen pregnancy rate keeps going up is that teens like to ****. For some reason, they enjoy it. The negative social scandle of a teen getting pregnant is no longer there. The family is no longer humiliated if their daughter gets pregnant....ask Sarah Palin

Why? What happened to it? And who led the charge to get rid of it?

I think the pro-life movement should take some credit for that. They encourage women to carry their pregnancies to term.

I see it as a positive sign.

Back in the days when abortion was illegal getting pregnant out of wedlock was a fate worse than death.

Now women have more choices and they increasingly choose to continue their pregnancies. Single parenthood doesn't have the stigma it once did.

Funny, because I see it in 180 degrees the other way. If it weren't for legalized abortion, people would be much more cautious about their activities because it wouldn't be so easy to just get rid of the consequences of irresponsible behavior. When you take away consequences, the behavior is just going to increase. But, the consequence of being ostrasized and being seen as immoral came about slightly before legalized abortions did. What movement worked to make that come about? They don't see the consequences they've created 30 to 40 years later, nor do they want to own them.

 

[editec]

If you really believe that every fetus is a human being then you'd best get used to the fact that woman have babies without husbands.

I note now that Google has made it worthless to seach for images using their service, since you can no longer use their output to add images here.

Stupid move on their part.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Why? What happened to it? And who led the charge to get rid of it?

I think the pro-life movement should take some credit for that. They encourage women to carry their pregnancies to term.

I see it as a positive sign.

Back in the days when abortion was illegal getting pregnant out of wedlock was a fate worse than death.

Now women have more choices and they increasingly choose to continue their pregnancies. Single parenthood doesn't have the stigma it once did.

Funny, because I see it in 180 degrees the other way. If it weren't for legalized abortion, people would be much more cautious about their activities because it wouldn't be so easy to just get rid of the consequences of irresponsible behavior. When you take away consequences, the behavior is just going to increase. But, the consequence of being ostrasized and being seen as immoral came about slightly before legalized abortions did. What movement worked to make that come about? They don't see the consequences they've created 30 to 40 years later, nor do they want to own them.

What's your solution? Criminalize abortion again?

 

[rightwinger]

Guess I should have known better than to expect an honest answer from you.

Did you really expect an explanation of why single pregnancy is no longer taboo?
Dan Quayle blamed Murphy Brown

And Palin is a good example in this case of a supposedly model parent who still saw her teen daughter get pregnant. She still managed to run for Vice President showing it is no longer taboo

Is that good enough for you?

It started long before Palin and her daughter came along, so give me a break. And I understand why you don't want to discuss it, it would require a hard look at things you'd rather ignore.

Do you mean that teenagers got pregnant before Bristol Palin?

Do you have a link for that?

 

[Jarhead]

I think the pro-life movement should take some credit for that. They encourage women to carry their pregnancies to term.

I see it as a positive sign.

Back in the days when abortion was illegal getting pregnant out of wedlock was a fate worse than death.

Now women have more choices and they increasingly choose to continue their pregnancies. Single parenthood doesn't have the stigma it once did.

Funny, because I see it in 180 degrees the other way. If it weren't for legalized abortion, people would be much more cautious about their activities because it wouldn't be so easy to just get rid of the consequences of irresponsible behavior. When you take away consequences, the behavior is just going to increase. But, the consequence of being ostrasized and being seen as immoral came about slightly before legalized abortions did. What movement worked to make that come about? They don't see the consequences they've created 30 to 40 years later, nor do they want to own them.

What's your solution? Criminalize abortion again?

My solution is actually quite simple.....

Whereas I believe people today are relying on the education system to teach their children right from wrong, those are the same people that are also blaming the inadequacies of the educational system on their children noit excelling academically.

I beleive, and will gladly support tax payer dollars going to educational seminars for the parents of grade school children as to how to approach your children regarding sex, drugs and rock n roll, and how to recognize signs that their children may be heading in the wrong direction.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

Obvioulsy they dont.

I wonder how it will help community realtions as well. Think about it. Parents meeting parents in a non competative environment. Right now, parents meet with parents on the opposite side of the soccer sidelines as they cheer for their 6 year olds to humiliate the other team.

Anyway, thats my solution.

 

[rightwinger]

Funny, because I see it in 180 degrees the other way. If it weren't for legalized abortion, people would be much more cautious about their activities because it wouldn't be so easy to just get rid of the consequences of irresponsible behavior. When you take away consequences, the behavior is just going to increase. But, the consequence of being ostrasized and being seen as immoral came about slightly before legalized abortions did. What movement worked to make that come about? They don't see the consequences they've created 30 to 40 years later, nor do they want to own them.

What's your solution? Criminalize abortion again?

My solution is actually quite simple.....

Whereas I believe people today are relying on the education system to teach their children right from wrong, those are the same people that are also blaming the inadequacies of the educational system on their children noit excelling academically.

I beleive, and will gladly support tax payer dollars going to educational seminars for the parents of grade school children as to how to approach your children regarding sex, drugs and rock n roll, and how to recognize signs that their children may be heading in the wrong direction.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

Obvioulsy they dont.

I wonder how it will help community realtions as well. Think about it. Parents meeting parents in a non competative environment. Right now, parents meet with parents on the opposite side of the soccer sidelines as they cheer for their 6 year olds to humiliate the other team.

Anyway, thats my solution.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

I'm 54 years old and my parents still have not talked to me about sex

 

[Jarhead]

What's your solution? Criminalize abortion again?

My solution is actually quite simple.....

Whereas I believe people today are relying on the education system to teach their children right from wrong, those are the same people that are also blaming the inadequacies of the educational system on their children noit excelling academically.

I beleive, and will gladly support tax payer dollars going to educational seminars for the parents of grade school children as to how to approach your children regarding sex, drugs and rock n roll, and how to recognize signs that their children may be heading in the wrong direction.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

Obvioulsy they dont.

I wonder how it will help community realtions as well. Think about it. Parents meeting parents in a non competative environment. Right now, parents meet with parents on the opposite side of the soccer sidelines as they cheer for their 6 year olds to humiliate the other team.

Anyway, thats my solution.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

I'm 54 years old and my parents still have not talked to me about sex

I spoke to both my boys about sex when each hit 10.

I learned a lot from them.

 

[rightwinger]

My solution is actually quite simple.....

Whereas I believe people today are relying on the education system to teach their children right from wrong, those are the same people that are also blaming the inadequacies of the educational system on their children noit excelling academically.

I beleive, and will gladly support tax payer dollars going to educational seminars for the parents of grade school children as to how to approach your children regarding sex, drugs and rock n roll, and how to recognize signs that their children may be heading in the wrong direction.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

Obvioulsy they dont.

I wonder how it will help community realtions as well. Think about it. Parents meeting parents in a non competative environment. Right now, parents meet with parents on the opposite side of the soccer sidelines as they cheer for their 6 year olds to humiliate the other team.

Anyway, thats my solution.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

I'm 54 years old and my parents still have not talked to me about sex

I spoke to both my boys about sex when each hit 10.

I learned a lot from them.

I told them to Google it

 

[DiamondDave]

Here... let's remind you again,.....


############

Conservative Contradiction

We oppose abortion but we also oppose sex education, birth control and programs that help unwed mothers

Ahh.. the number of incorrect generalizations you have in a feeble attempt to skew perception is simply amazing

Oppose abortion while supporting the death penalty of our most heinous murderers is not a contradiction... protecting innocent life while eliminating a worthless vile and evil convicted murderer are 2 completely different things...

Conservatives do not oppose sex education.... we oppose the government thinking it is in place to forcibly provide it and taking over my parental responsibility to do it or to CHOOSE to let the educational system do it, if it meets our standards

Conservatives are not against birth control... but we are indeed against the governmental system thinking it has the right to readily hand it to our children when our children are our responsibility

Conservatives are not against programs to help unwed mothers... in fact we whole heartedly support many charitable organizations that deal with such things... what most conservatives are against are government entitlement programs that suck off the taxpayer tit in some misguides view that government exists to take your personal responsibilities away from you by just forking monies over that are paid into the tax system

Still waiting, winger... I won't let you keep ducking

 

[rightwinger]

If I could wave my hand and abolish abortion around the world, I would do so

However, abortion is here and it is not going away...EVER

You can abolish it in your state and women will go to the next state, you can abolish it nationwide and women will go to Canada or Europe. The procedure would still get done, even if it is done illegally.

The best response is to reduce the need of women to abort. Education, birth control and extensive programs for women who choose to keep the baby will all reduce abortions

 

[DiamondDave]

You duck so much, your quack can be heard 3 timezones away

You were indeed exposed for your attempt to generalize and deceive... and when called upon it, you act like a 2 year old child sticking their fingers in their ears...

It's simple... either contradict what I expanded on to expose your deception... or just admit to your ploy

I'll be waiting... and not forgetting...

 

[DiamondDave]

If I could wave my hand and abolish abortion around the world, I would do so

However, abortion is here and it is not going away...EVER

You can abolish it in your state and women will go to the next state, you can abolish it nationwide and women will go to Canada or Europe. The procedure would still get done, even if it is done illegally.

The best response is to reduce the need of women to abort. Education, birth control and extensive programs for women who choose to keep the baby will all reduce abortions

So for other murder.. why not just educate, provide government given counseling, and give extensive programs for those who say they chose not to murder??? Hell, why should it be illegal??

Not to mention you once again advocate leaving personal responsibility on everyone BUT the person themselves...

 

[rightwinger]

Funny, because I see it in 180 degrees the other way. If it weren't for legalized abortion, people would be much more cautious about their activities because it wouldn't be so easy to just get rid of the consequences of irresponsible behavior. When you take away consequences, the behavior is just going to increase. But, the consequence of being ostrasized and being seen as immoral came about slightly before legalized abortions did. What movement worked to make that come about? They don't see the consequences they've created 30 to 40 years later, nor do they want to own them.

What's your solution? Criminalize abortion again?

My solution is actually quite simple.....

Whereas I believe people today are relying on the education system to teach their children right from wrong, those are the same people that are also blaming the inadequacies of the educational system on their children noit excelling academically.

I beleive, and will gladly support tax payer dollars going to educational seminars for the parents of grade school children as to how to approach your children regarding sex, drugs and rock n roll, and how to recognize signs that their children may be heading in the wrong direction.

But I believe parents have found an excuse to avoid the uncomfortable topics of sex and drugs as they are convinced the schools have it under control.

Obvioulsy they dont.

I wonder how it will help community realtions as well. Think about it. Parents meeting parents in a non competative environment. Right now, parents meet with parents on the opposite side of the soccer sidelines as they cheer for their 6 year olds to humiliate the other team.

Anyway, thats my solution.

I still think you overemphasize what parents can do. Teens have been getting pregnant since there have been teens. As a matter of fact, teen pregnancy has been the norm for thousands of years and is still the norm in most of the world
You can teach your kids, let them know you support them, give them good values

But once they are alone in the back of that pickup........its up to them

 

[Hum Dinger]

Here... let's remind you again,.....


############

Conservative Contradiction

We oppose abortion but we also oppose sex education, birth control and programs that help unwed mothers

Ahh.. the number of incorrect generalizations you have in a feeble attempt to skew perception is simply amazing

Oppose abortion while supporting the death penalty of our most heinous murderers is not a contradiction... protecting innocent life while eliminating a worthless vile and evil convicted murderer are 2 completely different things...

In principle, I agree, but why is it that while conservatives categorically don't trust government, suddenly when it come time to execute someone they suddenly trust government emphatically?

While I wholeheartedly support the idea of executing murders, I DO NOT trust the court system to determine who is guilty and who is innocent. Not one iota. Conviction only means a lack of ability to pay expensive lawyers.

Conservatives do not oppose sex education.... we oppose the government thinking it is in place to forcibly provide it and taking over my parental responsibility to do it or to CHOOSE to let the educational system do it, if it meets our standards

Conservatives are not against birth control... but we are indeed against the governmental system thinking it has the right to readily hand it to our children when our children are our responsibility

Two issues here:

First, in an ideal world, all parents would be all knowing, highly responsible, and have oodles of quality time to spend mentoring their children. But we live in the REAL world:

1. There is no way that the government can force parents to be responsible.

2. Even responsible caring parents simply do not have the time for home schooling.

3. Most adults themselves are grossly ignorant of most subjects - ESPECIALLY SEX!
So, how the hell are they supposed to teach their children?

Government is the best institution for teaching about sex in a scientifically accurate way. The more knowledgeable children are, the less likely they are to make mistakes that they will later regret.

Generally speaking, conservatives hold the most perverse and inaccurate views regarding sex, which is why they object so strongly to the scientific view taught by the government.

Full knowledge of human sexuality promotes monogamy, responsibily and love. The voodoo attitudes towards sex that are espoused by conservatives promote polygamy and irresponsibility generation after generation.

Conservatives are not against programs to help unwed mothers... in fact we whole heartedly support many charitable organizations that deal with such things... what most conservatives are against are government entitlement programs that suck off the taxpayer tit in some misguides view that government exists to take your personal responsibilities away from you by just forking monies over that are paid into the tax system

Government is a community organization that's open to public scrutiny. Private non-profits are not. If you think that private non-profits aren't corrupt or that they provide a more economic means of delivering services, you are very, very naive.

I agree that government programs could be better managed sometimes, but private non-profits are horrendously corrupt. More of the money goes to the salaries of the directors that ever gets to the recipients. They are a total rip off.

At least with government there is some public scrutiny.

 

[Hum Dinger]

There is a glaring contradiction in the educational expectations of the public school system.

For any school system to be effective it must at some point eliminate people who are intellectually unqualified. The idea that everyone is entitled to be a rocket scientist or a doctor is a bunch of bunk. The American acedemic system has degenerated to a point that idiots get doctorates - dedication and a willingness to accept debt are the primary requirements - not intelligence.

But the root of the problem is really in the unfair wealth distribution in this country - anyone that doesn't make it to a certain level in the acedemic system is condemned to a life of defacto slavery. The level of slavery to which a person is subjected (barring inheritance or illegal business) is proportional to their level of education. So of course people are going to fight tooth and nail to get to the highest level of education they can - even if that means turning the acedemic system into a total fraud.

Schools should focus primarily on behavior - ensuring that everyone that graduates follows acceptable social behavior - and dealing with the deviants at an early age.

Besides, true acedemic success can only be achieved once the behavioral problems have been settled.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you look at who people vote for and what those people do?

NOBODY really wants smaller government.

What they really want is a big government of their own design.

And if one can do that without taxing anybody, better still.

I have the formula for THAT government, incidently, but since none of you think TARIFFS are a good idea, ya'll are stuck with BIG EXPENSIVE government.

Just like the Republicans and Democrats have been giving you for the last 100 years.

Stupid partisans.

Please show me, using my voting record, how I want a big government of my design.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Could be...

What is your proposed alternative? Prohibit birth control to teens? Keep them in the dark about sex and hope they don't figure it out?
The reason the teen pregnancy rate keeps going up is that teens like to ****. For some reason, they enjoy it. The negative social scandle of a teen getting pregnant is no longer there. The family is no longer humiliated if their daughter gets pregnant....ask Sarah Palin

Why? What happened to it? And who led the charge to get rid of it?

I think the pro-life movement should take some credit for that. They encourage women to carry their pregnancies to term.

I see it as a positive sign.

Back in the days when abortion was illegal getting pregnant out of wedlock was a fate worse than death.

Now women have more choices and they increasingly choose to continue their pregnancies. Single parenthood doesn't have the stigma it once did.

If it were that simple the teen pregnancy rate should have plummeted right after abortion was legalized.

Funny thing about facts, they don't support anyone's theories about teen pregnancies.

 

[DiamondDave]

Here... let's remind you again,.....


############

Conservative Contradiction

We oppose abortion but we also oppose sex education, birth control and programs that help unwed mothers

Ahh.. the number of incorrect generalizations you have in a feeble attempt to skew perception is simply amazing

In principle, I agree, but why is it that while conservatives categorically don't trust government, suddenly when it come time to execute someone they suddenly trust government emphatically?

While I wholeheartedly support the idea of executing murders, I DO NOT trust the court system to determine who is guilty and who is innocent. Not one iota. Conviction only means a lack of ability to pay expensive lawyers.

Conservatives do not oppose sex education.... we oppose the government thinking it is in place to forcibly provide it and taking over my parental responsibility to do it or to CHOOSE to let the educational system do it, if it meets our standards

Conservatives are not against birth control... but we are indeed against the governmental system thinking it has the right to readily hand it to our children when our children are our responsibility

Two issues here:

First, in an ideal world, all parents would be all knowing, highly responsible, and have oodles of quality time to spend mentoring their children. But we live in the REAL world:

1. There is no way that the government can force parents to be responsible.

2. Even responsible caring parents simply do not have the time for home schooling.

3. Most adults themselves are grossly ignorant of most subjects - ESPECIALLY SEX!
So, how the hell are they supposed to teach their children?

Government is the best institution for teaching about sex in a scientifically accurate way. The more knowledgeable children are, the less likely they are to make mistakes that they will later regret.

Generally speaking, conservatives hold the most perverse and inaccurate views regarding sex, which is why they object so strongly to the scientific view taught by the government.

Full knowledge of human sexuality promotes monogamy, responsibily and love. The voodoo attitudes towards sex that are espoused by conservatives promote polygamy and irresponsibility generation after generation.

Conservatives are not against programs to help unwed mothers... in fact we whole heartedly support many charitable organizations that deal with such things... what most conservatives are against are government entitlement programs that suck off the taxpayer tit in some misguides view that government exists to take your personal responsibilities away from you by just forking monies over that are paid into the tax system

Government is a community organization that's open to public scrutiny. Private non-profits are not. If you think that private non-profits aren't corrupt or that they provide a more economic means of delivering services, you are very, very naive.

I agree that government programs could be better managed sometimes, but private non-profits are horrendously corrupt. More of the money goes to the salaries of the directors that ever gets to the recipients. They are a total rip off.

At least with government there is some public scrutiny.

Who says 'conservatives' trust the government 'inherently' the way the death penalty stands? Funny.. don't remember people saying that standards and evidence needs are perfect and do not need to be improved as science improves... but I do fully believe that a sane society rids itself of maniacal murderers

2nd... it is not government's responsibility to judge whether you think a parent is responsible enough.. government does not exist to take your burdensome pesky personal responsibility from you... even when it comes to teaching things to your kids on the very personal subject as sex... the government is not teaching a 'scientific' view... it is teaching a liberal view, an everything is ok view, and handing out things such as birth control to minors who are indeed under parental control... this is not the job of government....
Oh .... and your little sneaky remark assuming 'conservatives' are uneducated or inept in sexuality so that they are not qualified to teach their children about sex.... sonny boy, you are entirely clueless...

BOTH government and private organizations can be corrupt.. and we SURE AS HELL KNOW the levels and depths of corruption our government can step to.... but that is not the point... it is NOT the job of government to be your motherfucking nanny... you are responsible for the consequences of your actions, your decisions, and to take care of yourself.... since this is not the job of government, this is why I oppose it and support charitable organizations that VOLUNTARILY obtain donations from supporters to do the deeds they wish to do.... not some bullshit entitlement schema overrun by the government in a power grab that is inherently filled with red tape, corruption, and bureaucracy on the taxpayer dime as involuntary support

 

[DiamondDave]

c'mon winger.. we at least had someone with enough of a sack to question my positions... still hiding after getting exposed on your little ploy???

This is low even for the likes of you