The concept of "God" proven illogical

[Mad_Cabbie]

When a computer programmer takes his invisible thoughts ( which can't be seen by anyone ) and uses 0's and 1's in a binary code to convert his invisible thoughts through a computer processor to give us a way to see those thoughts in action, all we're seeing are illusions that come from nothing but invisible thoughts.

His thoughts are hardly "nothing" - they are nerve impulses (energy) and chemical reactions (matter).

Information is stored in the brain until it is accessed - it has a physical form.

 

[GrosMinet]

So to get back to the original post, no serious theistic philosopher or theologian has ever defended the claim that whatever "exists" has a cause (for no other reason than its existence). Or if they did, then show me where.

However, atheists have often ascribed that childish piece of reasoning to believers. Which is not first nor the last strawman atheists have made up.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

8) He leaves people some room for freedom, including the freedom to reject him, because he doesn't want to be loved by slaves or robots.

Why then, does God banish sinners to an afterlife of suffering as a punishment for intellectual disobedience?

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

So to get back to the original post, no serious theistic philosopher or theologian has ever defended the claim that whatever "exists" has a cause (for no other reason than its existence). Or if they did, then show me where.

However, atheists have often ascribed that childish piece of reasoning to believers. Which is not first nor the last strawman atheists have made up.

Not quite sure what this means ... philosophers and theologians don't usually dabble in science - when they do, it for the most part lands with a thud.

 

[Moonglow]

The concept of "God" proven illogical

It may be illogical, but it is not impracticable.

 

[daws101]

8) He leaves people some room for freedom, including the freedom to reject him, because he doesn't want to be loved by slaves or robots.

Why then, does God banish sinners to an afterlife of suffering as a punishment for intellectual disobedience?

there is no evidence that he or she does that or anything...camp fire stories prove nothing except belief in campfire stories...

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Define "God".
Don't say what he/she/it isn't-say what he/she/it IS.

God is invisible where all invisible thoughts come from. We are His thoughts.

Sounds like a bunch of nonsense.

 

[Doubletap]

GrossMinet "Some theologians would tell you that it's impossible to "define" God because God is a unique being whereas things that can be defined belong to wider classes of beings"

So the "theologians" are a privileged group & they have the knowledge which no one else has?
Additionally they say its impossible to define god,
yet they classify god as a "unique being"?!?!?!?!

 

[JakeStarkey]

The concept of "God" proven illogical

Double Tap is the atheist equivalent of Koshergrl: neither are believable and neither can forward an argument that can stand, other than "because I said so."

 

[GrosMinet]

GrossMinet "Some theologians would tell you that it's impossible to "define" God because God is a unique being whereas things that can be defined belong to wider classes of beings"

So the "theologians" are a privileged group & they have the knowledge which no one else has?
Additionally they say its impossible to define god,
yet they classify god as a "unique being"?!?!?!?!

Faith is not knowledge. Though some believers say they really experience the presence of God in their lives or in their hearts.

Some believers think there is evidence for God's existence though it is controversial.

Some believers trust the revelation of the Bible and Christ because it makes sense to them.

Yes God is held to be a unique being. That's what Monotheism is about.

 

[Moonglow]

God is also a state of mind and existence to yearn for and practice.

 

[GrosMinet]

8) He leaves people some room for freedom, including the freedom to reject him, because he doesn't want to be loved by slaves or robots.

Why then, does God banish sinners to an afterlife of suffering as a punishment for intellectual disobedience?

Such is not the view of Catholic theology nor of Hick's Pluralism.

Here is an excerpt from a text of the Second Vatican Council ( Lumen Gentium ):

16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature",(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

 

[Doubletap]

God is also a state of mind and existence to yearn for and practice.

So a state of mind created the universe??

 

[TheShinyOne]

What I think many people don't understand about physics and explanations of the universe is that the explanations are usually only equations that work. It doesn't mean they're true, only that for a very specific problem, such and such an equation and explanation correctly answers the question - but it doesn't mean it's gonna work in every instance. Like classical mechanics vs quantum mechanics. For a while Newtonian physics worked solving very specific questions. As technology continued to advance and we discovered the atom and quantum scale though, these solutions stopped working. And now we seem poised to make a similar leap in scale going from the quantum to dark matter/energy scale. Consequently, things that 'work' right now may be shown to not work once we figure out what 96% of the universe actually is vis a vis dark matter and dark energy.

I'm convinced that is a computability problem the solution of which is a paradox unacceptable to the kind of authoritarian personalities to be had in political spheres. The quantum stuff throws them for a loop. How can anything be fundamentally uncertain?

Start with the most basic of basic facts:
0-1+1=0.

Now, let's go ahead and break the rules of arithmetic:
0 x/ 1 y/ 1 z/ 0

Because we cannot be certain anything such as addition or subtraction is actually taking place in the expression, all we know is there's a set of circumstances that results in the perception or observation of a basic fact.

 

[hobelim]

What I think many people don't understand about physics and explanations of the universe is that the explanations are usually only equations that work. It doesn't mean they're true, only that for a very specific problem, such and such an equation and explanation correctly answers the question - but it doesn't mean it's gonna work in every instance. Like classical mechanics vs quantum mechanics. For a while Newtonian physics worked solving very specific questions. As technology continued to advance and we discovered the atom and quantum scale though, these solutions stopped working. And now we seem poised to make a similar leap in scale going from the quantum to dark matter/energy scale. Consequently, things that 'work' right now may be shown to not work once we figure out what 96% of the universe actually is vis a vis dark matter and dark energy.

I'm convinced that is a computability problem the solution of which is a paradox unacceptable to the kind of authoritarian personalities to be had in political spheres. The quantum stuff throws them for a loop. How can anything be fundamentally uncertain?

Start with the most basic of basic facts:
0-1+1=0.

Now, let's go ahead and break the rules of arithmetic:
0 x/ 1 y/ 1 z/ 0

Because we cannot be certain anything such as addition or subtraction is actually taking place in the expression, all we know is there's a set of circumstances that results in the perception or observation of a basic fact.

And that perception of a basic fact consists of what? Matter or thought? and where in the material universe exactly does conscious thought exist? What about words that create images in other minds? By what means do those images come into being? sound? written words without sound or through something intrinsic to life yet undiscovered?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Define "God".
Don't say what he/she/it isn't-say what he/she/it IS.

Some theologians would tell you that it's impossible to "define" God because God is a unique being whereas things that can be defined belong to wider classes of beings.

It's like being asked to define Shakespeare. What would define him in his very individuality? We may describe him, his work, his thoughts, but we will always fall short of encompassing his very "Shakespeare-Hood" with our general concepts. .

It is for this reason that it is forbidden to make images of any kind for use in worship of God because any and every material representation of God that is made by human hands cannot accurately represent God and as a consequence is false.

I agree. God is too big to be tied up in just one type of representation.

Quick question...............if God is too big to be represented by just one thing, then why do Christians worship the crucifix?

Isn't that a form of idolatry?

 

[hobelim]

Some theologians would tell you that it's impossible to "define" God because God is a unique being whereas things that can be defined belong to wider classes of beings.

It's like being asked to define Shakespeare. What would define him in his very individuality? We may describe him, his work, his thoughts, but we will always fall short of encompassing his very "Shakespeare-Hood" with our general concepts. .

It is for this reason that it is forbidden to make images of any kind for use in worship of God because any and every material representation of God that is made by human hands cannot accurately represent God and as a consequence is false.

I agree. God is too big to be tied up in just one type of representation.

Quick question...............if God is too big to be represented by just one thing, then why do Christians worship the crucifix?

Isn't that a form of idolatry?

sure, if they are kneeling before it and then praying to God. But most people just wear it like a club tie,

why?

maybe they wear it so that when he came back Jesus could easily identify those who support and celebrate his torture and death in the same way that Judas was the only one given bread at the last supper according to John 13:27, as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer before he left?

 

[ABikerSailor]

It is for this reason that it is forbidden to make images of any kind for use in worship of God because any and every material representation of God that is made by human hands cannot accurately represent God and as a consequence is false.

I agree. God is too big to be tied up in just one type of representation.

Quick question...............if God is too big to be represented by just one thing, then why do Christians worship the crucifix?

Isn't that a form of idolatry?

sure, if they are kneeling before it and then praying to God. But most people just wear it like a club tie,

why?

maybe they wear it so that when he came back Jesus could easily identify those who support and celebrate his torture and death in the same way that Judas was the only one given bread at the last supper according to John 13:27, as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer before he left?

Actually, most of those in the Christian faith kneel before a crucifix. Many of them even pray to Jesus (who is the Son of God) rather than pray to God Himself.

There are many times that Jesus said he wasn't God. A big misinterpretation of "the Father and I are One" is those who think that Jesus was God.

He was actually telling people that Jesus is the SON of God, not God Himself. How many times have people who have kids said that their child is part of themselves?

 

[hobelim]

I agree. God is too big to be tied up in just one type of representation.

Quick question...............if God is too big to be represented by just one thing, then why do Christians worship the crucifix?

Isn't that a form of idolatry?

sure, if they are kneeling before it and then praying to God. But most people just wear it like a club tie,

why?

maybe they wear it so that when he came back Jesus could easily identify those who support and celebrate his torture and death in the same way that Judas was the only one given bread at the last supper according to John 13:27, as a way for Jesus to identify his betrayer before he left?

Actually, most of those in the Christian faith kneel before a crucifix. Many of them even pray to Jesus (who is the Son of God) rather than pray to God Himself.

There are many times that Jesus said he wasn't God. A big misinterpretation of "the Father and I are One" is those who think that Jesus was God.

He was actually telling people that Jesus is the SON of God, not God Himself. How many times have people who have kids said that their child is part of themselves?

seems like a no brainer to me.

What is astonishing to me is how anyone can rationalize away their professed belief in a trinity or that a human being, Jesus, was God when it is impossible to honestly resolve that belief with the entire witness of every book in the bible, not to mention simple logic and reality..

If scripture is true and death is the consequence for worshipping false gods, bearing false witness, adultery, murder, eating the flesh of serpents and swine, etc., then every orthodox and almost every single Christian denomination is nothing more than a grave full of rotting corpses reeking of corruption.

The only good news is that if scripture is true, at the resurrection, the Christian dead will be the first to rise.

I wonder what they are waiting for? Christmas?

and though the concept of God is not illogical in any way, the belief that a human being could be or become God was proven illogical thousands of years ago.

 

[editec]

GOD is either a wave or a particle depending on the viewer.

editec


And since the viewer changes the fundamental nature of its being, one must ask oneself if the whole concept of CAUSE AND EFFECT hasn't just flown out the window.

waver servus particle - YouTube

So what we THINK we know is this...

On both the macro and micro scale...mostly there is NOTHING.

Electrons are either something orbiting something or nothing orbiting nothing depending on the viewer.

And you guys think believing in GOD is mindblowing?

Advanced particle physics is as weird as any religion mankind ever invented.