Zone1 The Catholic Church is the most misunderstood/vilified "thing" in the world

[hadit]

you can look things up yourself

You are a word bully. You accuse others of accusing!

projection!

If you want me to answer to some particular thing YOU can put that particular thing at the end of all the posts where I will find it.

Otherwise, you make it clear once again that all you're interested in is hearing yourself talk/write

4 posts. That's how far back I needed to look, just 4 posts. You can't do that? This is what you said:

"You act like u despise Catholics and act like they are all supposed to leave the CC and go to YOUR "church""

Now, since I had to find that for you, tell me where I have done that. What have I said that indicates I "despise Catholics", or "act like they are all supposed to leave the CC and go to MY church"? Like I said, you're accusing me of things, and I'd like to know where I did them. If I was wrong, I want to deal with it, but if I was not, you should deal with your false accusations, and pretending they're buried deep in the dusty archives doesn't help.

 

[ninja007]

And above all, don't forget to pluck out your eye and cut off your hand while you refuse to call a parent, father.

this is not talking about your parent.

 

[Meriweather]

this is not talking about your parent.

Nor is it talking about priests. It is talking about those who start a religion (i.e. Martin Luther) and as such are the "Father" of that religion or faith. For example "Father Abraham" who was a founder of the Jewish faith. I doubt very much Jesus was saying not to refer to Abraham as 'Father Abraham' but to remember the One who called Abraham to faith.

How much hate have those who slander the reasons/traditions of another faith. Addressing a priest as 'Father' has nothing to do with that priest founding any religion, and much about that priest leading and assisting one to see our heavenly Father. Jesus called his disciples 'children' and in turn, his disciples called those whom they were guiding 'children'. 'Father' in our day, has as many definitions/usages as it did in Biblical times...about a dozen.

Unhappy must be those who twist truths into lies so that they may wallow in mud to throw at another faith. How weak your own faith and denomination must be that it only knows to denigrate others. What faith is that?

 

[hadit]

Nor is it talking about priests. It is talking about those who start a religion (i.e. Martin Luther) and as such are the "Father" of that religion or faith. For example "Father Abraham" who was a founder of the Jewish faith. I doubt very much Jesus was saying not to refer to Abraham as 'Father Abraham' but to remember the One who called Abraham to faith.

How much hate have those who slander the reasons/traditions of another faith. Addressing a priest as 'Father' has nothing to do with that priest founding any religion, and much about that priest leading and assisting one to see our heavenly Father. Jesus called his disciples 'children' and in turn, his disciples called those whom they were guiding 'children'. 'Father' in our day, has as many definitions/usages as it did in Biblical times...about a dozen.

Unhappy must be those who twist truths into lies so that they may wallow in mud to throw at another faith. How weak your own faith and denomination must be that it only knows to denigrate others. What faith is that?

Seriously, Martin Luther didn't start a religion. He rebelled against corruption in the Catholic Church and split off from it when it would not hear and correct its ways. He went back to the Word and the foundation of Christianity and did not found a whole new religion. If you think he did, are you therefore not saying that Protestants, Anabaptists, Lutherans, et al are NOT Christians?

 

[Meriweather]

Seriously, Martin Luther didn't start a religion. He rebelled against corruption in the Catholic Church and split off from it when it would not hear and correct its ways. He went back to the Word and the foundation of Christianity and did not found a whole new religion. If you think he did, are you therefore not saying that Protestants, Anabaptists, Lutherans, et al are NOT Christians?

What is readily dismissed is that there many Catholics of that time who also noted the same issues as Martin Luther and stayed within the Church to do away with sin and apply the elbow grease needed to reform and correct what had been given. Martin Luther didn't 'rebel'--he ran away rather than staying and joining others already at work in this regard.

Unfortunately Luther did not go back to the Word, he turned to changes in language that occur over time and came up with possibilities outside of Biblical traditions of what those words "really" meant. The Catholic Church remained with Biblical traditions.

I did not say anyone founded a "whole new religion". What happened is that because of the original meanings of words change over time, Luther (and others) were able to follow a different understanding of words than the understanding of early Christians. The Catholic Church is still being mocked for keeping with tradition. Once again the Tower of Babel strikes due to changes and differences in language. Protestants, along with others, dispersed. This does not mean they did not take Christianity with them. We only see some changes in it due to language.

 

[hadit]

What is readily dismissed is that there many Catholics of that time who also noted the same issues as Martin Luther and stayed within the Church to do away with sin and apply the elbow grease needed to reform and correct what had been given. Martin Luther didn't 'rebel'--he ran away rather than staying and joining others already at work in this regard.

Unfortunately Luther did not go back to the Word, he turned to changes in language that occur over time and came up with possibilities outside of Biblical traditions of what those words "really" meant. The Catholic Church remained with Biblical traditions.

I did not say anyone founded a "whole new religion". What happened is that because of the original meanings of words change over time, Luther (and others) were able to follow a different understanding of words than the understanding of early Christians. The Catholic Church is still being mocked for keeping with tradition. Once again the Tower of Babel strikes due to changes and differences in language. Protestants, along with others, dispersed. This does not mean they did not take Christianity with them. We only see some changes in it due to language.

You said, "those who start a religion (i.e. Martin Luther)". Words do mean things, and that statement says Martin Luther started a religion. I'm glad to see you agree that he didn't leave Christianity, but what you said means he did.

 

[Meriweather]

You said, "those who start a religion (i.e. Martin Luther)". Words do mean things, and that statement says Martin Luther started a religion. I'm glad to see you agree that he didn't leave Christianity, but what you said means he did.

Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mormon, etc. are all religions and fall under that definition. They all follow a slightly different version of the Christian faith. Kind of interesting that (historically) so many wanted to insist they were of the "Christian religion" not the "Catholic religion".

 

[hadit]

Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal, Mormon, etc. are all religions and fall under that definition. They all follow a slightly different version of the Christian faith.

Which is why I say they are not separate religions.

Kind of interesting that (historically) so many wanted to insist they were of the "Christian religion" not the "Catholic religion".

That's because at that time they believed the Catholic Church had left the Christian faith, so strong was their division. That's why Martin Luther "ran away" (your term, not mine) instead of working within the corrupt church. He believed that it was irredeemable and Christians needed to separate from it. There's a reason why the time period is called the "Reformation", because it was when Christianity was literally reformed to get back to its roots and to prioritize Scripture over tradition. Even the Catholic Church had to undergo reform.

 

[Meriweather]

That's because at that time they believed the Catholic Church had left the Christian faith, so strong was their division.

There was more going on in Germany and in Luther's personal life that triggered his actions.

 

[hadit]

There was more going on in Germany and in Luther's personal life that triggered his actions.

But to despise him and all who today do not attend Catholic Churches as "heretics" because he went back to Scripture and placed it higher than Church tradition is to smear a LOT of people for simply trying to be faithful to God's Word.

 

[Meriweather]

But to despise him and all who today do not attend Catholic Churches as "heretics" because he went back to Scripture and placed it higher than Church tradition is to smear a LOT of people for simply trying to be faithful to God's Word.

First, I do not despise Luther and I know of no one who does. It has never crossed my mind to think of Lutherans or any other denomination or faith as a "heretic" and that includes Hindus Taoists, or even atheists. Luther did not go back to scripture, he went with how he understood scripture. Any person of any faith is being faithful to God's word as they understand it.

My interest is language and etymology. Catholics, Orthodox, and Judaism are the religions that are closest to the meanings of Biblical languages. Just because some have switched to other meanings does not make them any less faithful. It simply means their understanding is based on the meanings of later languages/definitions.

Peace

 

[hadit]

First, I do not despise Luther and I know of no one who does. It has never crossed my mind to think of Lutherans or any other denomination or faith as a "heretic" and that includes Hindus Taoists, or even atheists. Luther did not go back to scripture, he went with how he understood scripture. Any person of any faith is being faithful to God's word as they understand it.

My interest is language and etymology. Catholics, Orthodox, and Judaism are the religions that are closest to the meanings of Biblical languages. Just because some have switched to other meanings does not make them any less faithful. It simply means their understanding is based on the meanings of later languages/definitions.

Peace

I've seen others on this board express disdain for Protestants and other non-Catholics. I believe the term "heretic" was also tossed around. Note that I did not accuse you of such.

 

[1miseryindex]

. It has never crossed my mind to think of Lutherans or any other denomination or faith as a "heretic" and that includes Hindus Taoists, or even atheists.

Then you yourself are a heretic

and should stop calling yourself Catholic, immediately

 

[Meriweather]

Then you yourself are a heretic

Or don't consider myself the judge of others. I trust in the Holy Spirit who meets up with everyone where they are and draws them closer to God. I might be able to explain etymology and Biblical tradition/original meanings, but the Holy Spirit works deep within our spirits, and is not bound by our definitions/traditions.

 

[ding]

Then you yourself are a heretic

and should stop calling yourself Catholic, immediately

Says the apostate that attacks the Church on a daily basis.

 

[ding]

I've seen others on this board express disdain for Protestants and other non-Catholics. I believe the term "heretic" was also tossed around. Note that I did not accuse you of such.

I think that is as ridiculous as Protestants and other non-Catholics expressing disdain for Catholics and/or Catholic practices.