The case for price gouging

[Sinjorri]

its illegal?

Classic circular logic! Textbook.

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hardly at all. You want to pay more, go for it. Good luck on that, im not going to stop you at all. Doesn't mean others won't. I personally prefer law and order over what you want, but thats me.

how is it not law and order if again, you are choosing to do it?

 

[g5000]

Four hours of my time is worth a lot more than an extra 25 dollars it would cost me to fill up.

Simple as that. I'm not being ripped off. It is price discovery.

.

 

[Plasmaball]

Classic circular logic! Textbook.

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hardly at all. You want to pay more, go for it. Good luck on that, im not going to stop you at all. Doesn't mean others won't. I personally prefer law and order over what you want, but thats me.

You say "law and order" to explain why you don't like the idea of someone buying gas from a gypsy seller. You clearly are using circular logic. You don't like it because it is illegal.

If it was legal, you would be in favor it, right? Because it is legal. Law and order, and all that good stuff.

So you are opposed to the illegal selling of gas because it is illegal!

Circular logic. QED.

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Price gouging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the United States, laws against price gouging have been held constitutional[3] as a valid exercise of the police power to preserve order during an emergency, and may be combined with anti-hoarding measures. Exceptions are prescribed for price increases that can be justified in terms of increased cost of supply, transportation or storage. Statutes generally give wide discretion not to prosecute: in 2004, Florida determined that one-third of complaints were unfounded, and a large fraction of the remainder were handled by consent decrees, rather than prosecution. Proponents of laws against price gouging assert that it can create an unrealistic psychological demand that can drive a non-replenishable item into extinction.[4] As of 2008, thirty-four states in the United States have enacted laws against price-gouging. Price-gouging is often defined in terms of three critieria listed below:[5]
Period of Emergency: The majority of laws apply only to price shifts during a time of disaster.
Necessary items: Most laws apply exclusively to items which are essential to survival.
Price ceilings: Laws limit the maximum price that can be charged for given goods.
A prevalent concern surrounding price gouging is that it exploits consumers. Supporters of anti price gouging laws argue that it is morally wrong for sellers to take advantage of buyer’s vulnerability and increased demand. Buyers are not coerced to take part in this exchange and they voluntarily agree to pay the seller’s asking price. In addition to these mandated laws, many businesses avoid increasing prices after a disaster in order to avoid consumer backlash and stigma.

sums that up.

 

[Plasmaball]

Classic circular logic! Textbook.

.

hardly at all. You want to pay more, go for it. Good luck on that, im not going to stop you at all. Doesn't mean others won't. I personally prefer law and order over what you want, but thats me.

how is it not law and order if again, you are choosing to do it?

well from your own link it would seem that it would create chaos down the road if people started hoarding and such. It looks more like a power thing honestly.
People hoard gas, end up gaining power because that becomes a crutch in the little mini economy going on.

It would disrupt the process Police and others are trying to maintain and get back in order.

I don't think one person one place isnt going to hurt anyone.

 

[Sinjorri]

hardly at all. You want to pay more, go for it. Good luck on that, im not going to stop you at all. Doesn't mean others won't. I personally prefer law and order over what you want, but thats me.

how is it not law and order if again, you are choosing to do it?

well from your own link it would seem that it would create chaos down the road if people started hoarding and such. It looks more like a power thing honestly.
People hoard gas, end up gaining power because that becomes a crutch in the little mini economy going on.

It would disrupt the process Police and others are trying to maintain and get back in order.

I don't think one person one place isnt going to hurt anyone.

so if im prepared and peopel choose to pay what i ask its illegal? and you are okay with this? wow

 

[Plasmaball]

how is it not law and order if again, you are choosing to do it?

well from your own link it would seem that it would create chaos down the road if people started hoarding and such. It looks more like a power thing honestly.
People hoard gas, end up gaining power because that becomes a crutch in the little mini economy going on.

It would disrupt the process Police and others are trying to maintain and get back in order.

I don't think one person one place isnt going to hurt anyone.

so if im prepared and peopel choose to pay what i ask its illegal? and you are okay with this? wow

yes, its a chaos, and power thing. Shrug not really concerned if you don't like it.
Tell me are you going to pay those companies you got the oil back? you going to pay those taxes as well?

 

[Sinjorri]

well from your own link it would seem that it would create chaos down the road if people started hoarding and such. It looks more like a power thing honestly.
People hoard gas, end up gaining power because that becomes a crutch in the little mini economy going on.

It would disrupt the process Police and others are trying to maintain and get back in order.

I don't think one person one place isnt going to hurt anyone.

so if im prepared and peopel choose to pay what i ask its illegal? and you are okay with this? wow

yes, its a chaos, and power thing. Shrug not really concerned if you don't like it.
Tell me are you going to pay those companies you got the oil back? you going to pay those taxes as well?

its not chaos, i have a item in demand, i set up a luxury, if u choose to pay for it why should i not be able to profit?

 

[BillyV]

Well, I don’t think I’d go along with “gypsy” gas sellers just from the public safety aspect; the buyer may be willing to accept the additional risk, but you could be endangering others not party to the transaction. However, if you removed the price restrictions, you would have a mad rush of $1,000 generators on their way to the Northeast to be sold for $10,000 so gas stations could pump $10 per gallon gas out of their existing tanks and the gas lines would be reduced very quickly; to some extent from more stations being operational, to some extent from those who refuse to pay $10 per gallon. But those who really needed to get somewhere would have a ready supply, and once the emergency passed the price would rebalance to normal. The enterprising station owners and generator salesmen make some extra money and in the end solve the problem. Price controls are like liberalism, everyone shares in the misery.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

they can't pump with our electricity you moron.
Your free market is irrelevant.

There is this old, pre internet, technology called a generator, it actually makes electricity without a grid. The major problem is, they cost money to run, and gas stations in New Jersey can't charge the extra money it takes to run a generator to pump gas because it is against the law to charge more for gas during an emergency. That makes the problem government regulation, not the free market, just like I said.

a generator doesn't cost that much to run, and the profits would offset the cost of running one.
The law has nothing to do with Generator costs, You are speculating it would cost alot of money. Which is typical of you.
Or you know like gb stated, Its a waste of money for them to have a generator.

Have you ever run a generator large enough to power a store?

The law in New Jersey prohibits gas stations from raising prices more than 10% above normal during an emergency. The entire distribution system in New Jersey is recovering from a hurricane. There is no power to run the pipelines, no power to run the distribution centers, no way to put gas into the trucks that carry gas to the stations, no power to pump the gas from the station's tanks to the cars. Every single one of those problems requires a different generator, all of them cost money, yet no one can raise the prices to pay for them.

Want to tell me again the problem isn't the government?

 

[del]

Using the illogic behind your photo, we should not sell gas at all, dipshit.

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yes, because an underground tank with a fire suppression system is just like a tanker truck.

are you this stupid full time, or is it too exhausting to keep up?

Oh, look! A gas truck blew up! Those things are dangerous, we should not use them!

That's what your photo is saying, you dumbass. How do you think the gas got into your underground tank...fairy dust?



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why do you think they pump it into the tank, einstein?

wouldn't it be cheaper just to pump it directly out of the truck?

does the g stand for gomer?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

hardly at all. You want to pay more, go for it. Good luck on that, im not going to stop you at all. Doesn't mean others won't. I personally prefer law and order over what you want, but thats me.

You say "law and order" to explain why you don't like the idea of someone buying gas from a gypsy seller. You clearly are using circular logic. You don't like it because it is illegal.

If it was legal, you would be in favor it, right? Because it is legal. Law and order, and all that good stuff.

So you are opposed to the illegal selling of gas because it is illegal!

Circular logic. QED.

.

Price gouging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the United States, laws against price gouging have been held constitutional[3] as a valid exercise of the police power to preserve order during an emergency, and may be combined with anti-hoarding measures. Exceptions are prescribed for price increases that can be justified in terms of increased cost of supply, transportation or storage. Statutes generally give wide discretion not to prosecute: in 2004, Florida determined that one-third of complaints were unfounded, and a large fraction of the remainder were handled by consent decrees, rather than prosecution. Proponents of laws against price gouging assert that it can create an unrealistic psychological demand that can drive a non-replenishable item into extinction.[4] As of 2008, thirty-four states in the United States have enacted laws against price-gouging. Price-gouging is often defined in terms of three critieria listed below:[5]
Period of Emergency: The majority of laws apply only to price shifts during a time of disaster.
Necessary items: Most laws apply exclusively to items which are essential to survival.
Price ceilings: Laws limit the maximum price that can be charged for given goods.
A prevalent concern surrounding price gouging is that it exploits consumers. Supporters of anti price gouging laws argue that it is morally wrong for sellers to take advantage of buyer’s vulnerability and increased demand. Buyers are not coerced to take part in this exchange and they voluntarily agree to pay the seller’s asking price. In addition to these mandated laws, many businesses avoid increasing prices after a disaster in order to avoid consumer backlash and stigma.

sums that up.

Your argument against price gouging is that it is illegal, and you somehow think that settles it?

 

[Cecilie1200]

If you allow price discovery, then entrepreneurs would find ways to deliver gas to the affected area. You would be buying gas out of the back of some guy's truck instead of at the limited number of retailers who have power.

Since the price of gas is being suppressed, there is no profit motive for go-getters.

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um no.....

Um, yes. Which would you prefer:

1. Wait in line for four hours and pay $3.85 a gallon, like people are doing now.

2. Wait in line ten minutes and pay $6.00 a gallon.


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Or this choice:

1) Pay $6 a gallon and actually GET some gas.

2) Look sadly at a sign saying, "$3.85 a gallon" right above a sign that says, "Closed. Out of gasoline".

Prices go up when resources are scarce for a very good reason, and it's NOT "price gouging".

 

[Grandma]

The reason these laws exist is because after a disaster, regardless of size, consumers are stuck with enormous costs connected to survival and rebuilding, plus the loss of income from work. They can't afford to pay $7 per gallon (yeah, it's $7, not $6) for gas.

Anyone that takes advantage of someone that's suffering, that may even have lost a family member, deserves to die alone in the rain in a dark alley.

If they can't afford it, they don't need it.

You quote is why rightwingers should be banned from holding office.

 

[Sinjorri]

The reason these laws exist is because after a disaster, regardless of size, consumers are stuck with enormous costs connected to survival and rebuilding, plus the loss of income from work. They can't afford to pay $7 per gallon (yeah, it's $7, not $6) for gas.

Anyone that takes advantage of someone that's suffering, that may even have lost a family member, deserves to die alone in the rain in a dark alley.

If they can't afford it, they don't need it.

You quote is why rightwingers should be banned from holding office.

how did it work with the housing market and lenders who gave houses to people who couldnt afford it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The reason these laws exist is because after a disaster, regardless of size, consumers are stuck with enormous costs connected to survival and rebuilding, plus the loss of income from work. They can't afford to pay $7 per gallon (yeah, it's $7, not $6) for gas.

Anyone that takes advantage of someone that's suffering, that may even have lost a family member, deserves to die alone in the rain in a dark alley.

If they can't afford it, they don't need it.

You quote is why rightwingers should be banned from holding office.

Would you like me to rephrase it for idiots?

If they need it, they will find a way to pay for it. If they decide they would rather have something else, they don't need it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

huh?
There is gas in NJ. the problem is that that about 80% of the gas stations have tanks of gas but no electricity to pump it.

Tell me how a free market would change that?

Have you asked yourself why they don't have generators? Or do you just assume you know the answer?

money and laziness?

In other words, no. You didn't ask, you don't know, and you don't care to know. Facts and research just mess up your worldview.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Imagine a world where we actually had a free market and people could get what they need.

When I published my column making the case against legal bans on "price-gouging" in the wake of disasters, I got too primary negative reactions. Some folks were outraged that I'd be picking on this small topic amidst vast human tragedy. Others, like Chris Hayes, opined that my view was already conventional wisdom and barely counted as a Slatepitch.


But look at these photos of miles-long lines for gasoline in New Jersey and you'll see that there's a real issue here. The Christie administration fined a gas station for breaking price gouging rules back in September, and issued a press release before Sandy hit noting that case and explicitly warning retailers not to respond to the hurricane by raising prices. The failure to allow prices to adjust doesn't magically eliminate the supply side problems, it just means that the gasoline is misollacated and lots of people need to waste time in line. You can also see that the combination of shortage and underpricing seems to be leading people to overconsume when they do get to the front of the line.

Gas lines in New Jersey: The state needs more price gouging.

What's the market value of gasoline in an underground tank that can't be pumped out?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Would you apply this to medical costs in the event of a biological terror attack?

 

[Cecilie1200]

3. law and order

So option 1 for you, then.

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no i said option 3. Law and order. I see you are one of those slimy people who are willing to take advantage of people in need.

I see you're one of those slimy people who thinks prices are pulled randomly out of people's asses, and education and intelligence are evil.

But then, I've seen that about you before.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Imagine a world where we actually had a free market and people could get what they need.

When I published my column making the case against legal bans on "price-gouging" in the wake of disasters, I got too primary negative reactions. Some folks were outraged that I'd be picking on this small topic amidst vast human tragedy. Others, like Chris Hayes, opined that my view was already conventional wisdom and barely counted as a Slatepitch.


But look at these photos of miles-long lines for gasoline in New Jersey and you'll see that there's a real issue here. The Christie administration fined a gas station for breaking price gouging rules back in September, and issued a press release before Sandy hit noting that case and explicitly warning retailers not to respond to the hurricane by raising prices. The failure to allow prices to adjust doesn't magically eliminate the supply side problems, it just means that the gasoline is misollacated and lots of people need to waste time in line. You can also see that the combination of shortage and underpricing seems to be leading people to overconsume when they do get to the front of the line.

Gas lines in New Jersey: The state needs more price gouging.

What's the market value of gasoline in an underground tank that can't be pumped out?

It could be pumped out, even without a electricity. They actually make hand operated pumps that can get that gas out of the tank. Since it can be pumped, you are obviously asking the wrong question.