The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act passed a couple days ago

[Where_r_my_Keys]

You do know it's Republicans who value the fetus over the mother.

YES... IMAGINE THE TEMERITY OF A CULTURE THAT VALUES THE MOST INNOCENT LIFE OVER THAT OF A PERSON WHO MURDERS HER OWN CHILD.

ROFL!

You can NOT make this crap up!

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Uh, no, guy we really don't. The system we have for taking care of special needs children is ALREADY underfunded and understaffed.

Uh, no, guy their being underfunded and understaffed doesn't mean we shouldn't use them. It means we need to fund and staff them. The law does not only apply to special needs children. Nice try tho.

No, what crosses the line into ridiculousness is politicians and religious nuts substituting their judgement for that of medical professionals.

I'm not a politician. I'm not religious. Like it or not, "fetus" doesn't mean "born baby outside the womb laying on a table whose mother doesn't want her".

Guy, I tried to play the "I'm a pro-life atheist" game for years. And I even came up with better argumetns than you've presented. But the reality is, Abortion is just another way the 1% keep stupid people voting against their own economic interests. If the 1% and the GOP were really interested in outlawing abortion, they'd have appointed anti-choice justices and gotten it done years ago.

The votes were what got me. It was strictly by party line except for the five Democrats that supported it. It may surprise you to discover that I'm not a Republican either, btw. Or not. I kind of doubt you're capable of seeing any position beyond "my tribe" and "the enemy tribe". I apologize for calling you a liberal. They don't deserve to be equated with you.

Gosnell got caught because he killed his adult patients and dealt drugs out of his clinic. The fact that it took decades to catch him tells me you are pissing in the wind.

So let's look at Gosnell. The Prosecutors started out claiming he killed hundreds of babies. After spending thousands of dollars examining pickled fetuses he didn't have the good sense to send to a medical waste landfill, they came up with maybe seven who might have taken a breath of air. That got knocked down to four by the judge. The jury only found him guilty on three, and then the prosecutors had to cut a sentencing deal with him so he didn't appeal his conviction to someone who could actually READ a law book.

They also had to give sweetheart deals to the people working at his clinic to get testimony against him.

Frankly, you guys would be in a lot of trouble if you tried that shit on a reputable doctor.

At least you're willing to defend your hero. I have to give you that. A lot of pro-abortion people backed the **** away from him as soon as the story broke.

Actually, I'm exactly the kind of person we need on juries... one that will stand up to silly laws and politically motivated prosecutions.

We need politically motivated jurors to stand up against laws they think are silly?

No, my position on this is exactly the same no matter what side of the Labia the fetus is on.

You know what? I want to read it from your own hands. Please, tell us. What exactly do you think the word "fetus" means?

I'm not going to substitute my judgement for those of medical professionals and patients.

It'd be fun to see a trained physician call a seven hour old baby a fetus.

I didn't got to medical school for 8 years, and I don't have to support that disable, damaged child for the rest of his life.

Way to go on being no different than the Republicans who keep trying to get out of supporting the poor.

Guy, I'm really sorry your lack of coitus has left you the misogynistic mess that you clearly are. I kind of feel bad for you.

You should probably get a hooker, but I can't think of one I dislike enough to wish you upon.

"You're just stupid because you don't get laid. I know you don't get laid because you hate women. I know you hate women because I hate you."

Yeah, actually, guy it is about sex. It's always been about sex. it's about a bunch of religious assholes who are hung up about sex and women controlling their own lady parts.

"I know you just told me you're not religious, but I'm going to keep insisting that you are because otherwise my argument that everyone who opposes this thing you oppose is religious falls apart."

And getting played by the one percent to vote against their own economic interests.

"Also, stop thinking for yourself and let the rich guys who speak for us poor folk do your thinking for you."

If you fuckheads were really, really serious about there being less abortions, you'd support family and medical leave, you'd support universal health care, you'd support comprehensive sex education and contraception.

Do you pay attention to nothing I say? I do support family and medical leave. I do support universal healthcare. I do support sex ed and contraception. I have no reason not to support all of this for the exact reason you stated.

But you don't. And you don't have the integrity to admit it.

I just said that I do support every one of those things, just like I regularly say on these boards.

And you don't blurt out things about "popping out of her *****" and have any real chance to convince me you have some serious misogyny issues.

I'm sorry my use of the vernacular offended your sensibilities.[/QUOTE]

 

[the_human_being]

Legislating based on doctored fake videos. NaziCons should be very proud.

Well, the House Taliban are certainly proving that justice is truly BLIND.

Why did you reply to yourself?

I wanted to communicate with an equal intellect.

Then address your posts toward brute beasts.

 

[JoeB131]

ROFLMNAO!

This dumbass is in here crying about THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED BABIES... and its only solution is to murder pre-born children, because the alternative deals it out of easy trim and the RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING HIS UNWANTED CHILDREN... and IT NEEDS TO BLAME RELIGION FOR OF THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED CHILDREN AND REASONABLE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THAT TO DEVALUE THE PRE-BORN HUMAN DEVALUES ALL HUMANS.

Guy, you work on the assumption that women will not get abortions because you say so. it makes me wonder if you have ever had a real live encounter with a naked lady.

Women are going to have abortions regardless of what the law is. they had abortions before Roe v. Wade. The birth rate did NOT DROP in 1973. Before Roe, doctors performed abortions and wrote something else down on the chart.

Here's a hint... 5000 years ago, it was EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN. And 5000 years ago, PEOPLE KNEW THAT IT WAS EXPENSIVE TO RAISE UNWANTED CHILDREN.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Now, here's the thing. Maybe you need to read what ancient civilizations actually did. Child sacrifice was actually a common thing. There is even a case of it in the Bible, where Jephthah the Gileadite sacrificed his daughter because God gave him a victory.

Another common practice was "exposing' children. - to leave them out in the cold until they died. And of course, women knew how to induce abortions and did.

So... Laws were made which made it IMPERATIVE TO RAISE YOUR OWN KIDS! Those laws came down from the authorities, whose power was based in RELIGION. That the power that outlawed pawning your kids off to others was based in RELIGION, DOES NOT MAKE THE REASON FOR THE LAW: RELIGIOUS.

Funny you should mention that. the bible allows you to sell your daughter into slavery.

Exodus
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

The bible also says you should kill your children if they mouth off to you.

For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. -- Leviticus 20:9

That is, unless you need to claim that the recognition of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS EXCLUSIVELY RELIGIOUS... which would be a pretty silly thing for a Pro-Life Atheist to claim. (And anyone else... for that matter... but particularly for those idiots.)

Actually, the Bible says nothing about abortion. In fact, the bible considered causing an abortion to only be worthy of a fine.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

ROFLMNAO!

This dumbass is in here crying about THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED BABIES... and its only solution is to murder pre-born children, because the alternative deals it out of easy trim and the RESPONSIBILITY OF RAISING HIS UNWANTED CHILDREN... and IT NEEDS TO BLAME RELIGION FOR OF THE COST OF RAISING UNWANTED CHILDREN AND REASONABLE PEOPLE RECOGNIZING THAT TO DEVALUE THE PRE-BORN HUMAN DEVALUES ALL HUMANS.

Guy, you work on the assumption that women will not get abortions because you say so.

No... Not only do I not rest on that assumption, there is absolutely NOTHING in the record that suggests such...

What's more the record of my comments states SPECIFICALLY that law is not designed to prevent people from committing crimes, the law serves exclusively to PUNISH PEOPLE WHO BREAK THE LAW.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

 

[hortysir]

The law isn't about a fetus. It doesn't touch on viability or disabilities. It's about a living, screaming baby that just popped out of her mother's *****. It says that the abortionist has no right to finish the job on a born, living person. Keep in mind that, up until now, birth was the standard beginning of personhood for the pro-choice position. We're moving that back because it's not convenient enough for you.

No, my position on this is exactly the same no matter what side of the Labia the fetus is on.

I'm not going to substitute my judgement for those of medical professionals and patients.

I didn't got to medical school for 8 years, and I don't have to support that disable, damaged child for the rest of his life.

Therefore, it's really none of my business.

and it's none of yours, and it's none of 400 White Guys in Congress' either.

Where is your line, for life on this side of the labia?
Hour?
Day?
Week?
Month?
Year?

When does it turn into murder, IYO?

 

[AvgGuyIA]

"The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act"

...is a 'solution' in search of a 'problem' that doesn't exist.

It's yet another example of Congressional republicans pandering to the base while failing to address the Nation's business, it's yet another example of Congressional republicans' contempt for sound responsible governance, and it's yet another example of the ridiculous social right.

See? The pro-death by abortion side isn't satisfied. Now they want to kill babies after they are born and breathing oxygen. And they ridicule the right.

 

[the_human_being]

1. "Fetus" is the term while still in the womb. There are no born fetuses any more than there are unborn teenagers.
2. My solution is to require that doctors do their jobs just like airline stewardesses and county clerks are supposed to.
3. The taxpayers would be paying for it under the universal healthcare I'm pretty sure we both want. I'd be happy to dig into my own savings if I'm wrong.
4. Your argument that we should kill preemies if they were born during an abortion kind of falls flat when I was a preemie too...

You were a preemie that someone wanted, and was willing to shoulder the financial burden of caring for.

Obviously, a fetus that is aborted post week 23 probably already has some serious issues or the woman wouldn't be aborting it to start with.

So what you are saying is that because of your religious beliefs, a woman who is already having to terminate a pregnancy of an unhealthy fetus should now have to shoulder the burden of lifetime care (albeit it will probably be a very short life) of futile attempts to extend its life.

This is really all manner of crazy talk.

That is just you throwing a bunch of crap up there to weakly defend an indefensible position. You really have no clue here at all as to the mother's reason(s). Her reason(s) could have absolutely nothing at all to do with the health of the fetus. NO POINTS FOR YOU ON THIS ONE. LAME at best.

 

[JoeB131]

The votes were what got me. It was strictly by party line except for the five Democrats that supported it. It may surprise you to discover that I'm not a Republican either, btw. Or not. I kind of doubt you're capable of seeing any position beyond "my tribe" and "the enemy tribe". I apologize for calling you a liberal. They don't deserve to be equated with you.

Guy, I'm a pragmatist. The fact that you are too stupid to realize you are being played on this issue with doctored tapes and dishonest comments about viable babies really isn't my problem.

At least you're willing to defend your hero. I have to give you that. A lot of pro-abortion people backed the **** away from him as soon as the story broke.

Where did I call Gosnell a "hero" or defended him?

I pointed out that it was kind of stupid to try to convict him of killing "babies" when you had him DEAD TO RIGHTS on drug dealing and killing his adult patient.

So instead of going for the easy, not controversial case, the prosecutors did legal handstands trying to prove that these fetuses were still flopping around on the table.

That's kind of nuts, really. Not to mention a waste of taxpayer's dollars. You know, dollars that could be used to pay for babies someone actually wanted to keep.

 

[JoeB131]

That is just you throwing a bunch of crap up there to weakly defend an indefensible position. You really have no clue here at all as to the mother's reason(s). Her reason(s) could have absolutely nothing at all to do with the health of the fetus. NO POINTS FOR YOU ON THIS ONE. LAME at best.

Well, no, guy, no woman suffers through 20+ weeks of pregnancy and then decides not to go through with it.

If a woman is having an abortion at 22 weeks, this is a baby she probably wanted, and they found out it had spina-bifida or down syndrome or some horrible disease.

Which is WHY these decisions should be left to the woman and her doctor.

 

[the_human_being]

"The Born Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act"

...is a 'solution' in search of a 'problem' that doesn't exist.

It's yet another example of Congressional republicans pandering to the base while failing to address the Nation's business, it's yet another example of Congressional republicans' contempt for sound responsible governance, and it's yet another example of the ridiculous social right.

See? The pro-death by abortion side isn't satisfied. Now they want to kill babies after they are born and breathing oxygen. And they ridicule the right.

Yes. That's why I don't want them anywhere around my two grandchildren ages seven and nine. These depraved fools are at any time subject to murder them and sell their body parts. All we're discussing here is age. Why not murder them up to age ten or twelve?

 

[the_human_being]

That is just you throwing a bunch of crap up there to weakly defend an indefensible position. You really have no clue here at all as to the mother's reason(s). Her reason(s) could have absolutely nothing at all to do with the health of the fetus. NO POINTS FOR YOU ON THIS ONE. LAME at best.

Well, no, guy, no woman suffers through 20+ weeks of pregnancy and then decides not to go through with it.

If a woman is having an abortion at 22 weeks, this is a baby she probably wanted, and they found out it had spina-bifida or down syndrome or some horrible disease.

Which is WHY these decisions should be left to the woman and her doctor.

Probably? We don't deal in PROBABLY. Again, if the issue is moot, then why the argument against having such a law? If this will not happen then the law will just be on the books along with a lot of others. You haven't responded to that one and it's been asked of you at least three times now.

 

[whitehall]

Sadly the House has no power to "defund" the entire subsidy that automatically goes to the nazis in PP. At issue is a lousy 10% of taxpayer funding. Why do knee jerk idiots always blame republicans for a government shutdown when it's reasonable to assume that radical left wing democrats are willing to shut down the government over a 10% break from funding an organization that illegally barters in human body parts?

 

[the_human_being]

Well... you have a point.

The cost of bearing people's unwanted children is terribly expensive. And since human life is sacred and to devalue the unborn child, devalues the post born human... it follows that we, as a self governing people, have a serious public interests in governing the birth of children and the behavior which produces children.

Therefore, I say we outlaw abortion and set severe penalties, up to and including death for anyone who is found conceiving a child and not bearing 100% responsibility for it.

Reader, enjoy the caterwauling and crying by those here to lament the cost of bearing children and to advocate for the fleeing from any sense of responsibility for their willful and wanton behavior which is designed for no other purpose than the conception of children.

again, your quest to convince us you've never gotten laid in your life is meeting with great success.

Here's the thing guy, countries have tried the shit you spew. And it fails. Every single time it's been tried.

No country has ever successfully outlawed abortion.

Not that you are capable of being educated, but you should really look up what happened when Romania tried to ban birth control and abortion in order to boost their population numbers.

It failed. Miserably. women found ways to beat the law.

I don't think the argument was so much about outlawing abortion. The law was about murdering a live born baby outside the womb. But again, LAME TRY AT DEFLECTING.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

The only time Barrack Hussein Obama did not vote "present" as a State Senator.was a vote to allow a doctor to kill a baby that wasn't killed during an abortion attempt. Tells you everything about that piece of dog shit occupying our White House.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I don't think the argument was so much about outlawing abortion. The law was about murdering a live born baby outside the womb. But again, LAME TRY AT DEFLECTING.

Deflection and derailing is all he's really got, apparently. He's yet to address the actual law itself. He's just trying to turn this into an abortion thread.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

So your solution would be to try to save mangled fetuses if they are still flopping around after an abortion?

That's kind of an interesting proposal, as treatment for a Preemie often runs into the tens of thousands of dollars.

If its life obviously can't be saved, give it sedation, care and comfort until it dies like any HUMAN being would do for someone alive, but don't stick a forcep into it!

 

[JoeB131]

Probably? We don't deal in PROBABLY. Again, if the issue is moot, then why the argument against having such a law? If this will not happen then the law will just be on the books along with a lot of others. You haven't responded to that one and it's been asked of you at least three times now.

Why am I against this law?

Because Im against substituting religion and superstition for science and good medical practices.

Keep your stupid superstitions in your churches where they belong.

 

[JoeB131]

So your solution would be to try to save mangled fetuses if they are still flopping around after an abortion?

That's kind of an interesting proposal, as treatment for a Preemie often runs into the tens of thousands of dollars.

If its life obviously can't be saved, give it sedation, care and comfort until it dies like any HUMAN being would do for someone alive, but don't stick a forcep into it!

That isn't what this law calls for. It calls for them to treat it just like they treat a premature birth.

 

[JoeB131]

The only time Barrack Hussein Obama did not vote "present" as a State Senator.was a vote to allow a doctor to kill a baby that wasn't killed during an abortion attempt. Tells you everything about that piece of dog shit occupying our White House.

Actually, Obama voted "Present" only 3% of roll calls taken, so your facts are wrong, as usual.

Again, keep your superstitions in your church, let medical professionals make medical decisions.