The big question about life on other planets: 1000000000000000000000 planets in the universe

[Frannie]

Evolution never stops...I get what you are saying, that now both weak and dominant traits will be reproduced into our speciee because modern medicine allows them to survive...

but mutation never ceases.

In fact, our evolution is exascerbated by this because variations are all surviving... not only the "fittest" ones.

Right, but they all humanoid. Remember we're talking about an alien with the intelligence and dexterity to build a spaceship capable of interstellar travel.

Why couldn't a race of non humanoids do that?

After all I have dogs smarter than you

Does a dog have the dexterity to build a spaceship?
What does the dog need to build it?
Let's see how smart you are.

Can a termite build a skyscraper

Not one that can propel itself into orbit, and visit an alien environment. That requires a lot of tools and resources.

What you are effectively saying is that humans are the only possible intelligent species possible in the universe. You derive this by using the earth as the only possible model

It's silly, like you

 

[Frannie]

Let's say the dog is as smart as a human.

What else does the dog need in order to build a spaceship?

Please list the requirements.

Dude you do not know the requirements for alien technology

Stop babbling

I know the logic of the requirements to be able to create a spaceship. It's not going to be a jellyfish like you suggested.

Why do you assume that the aliens use crafts as we know them

You can not win, the more PhD's you bring around the brighter I seem, so bring it on kids

 

[RWS]

A mucous blob is not going to roll out of a spaceship. They need dexterity and building and survival skills. And obviously extreme intelligence.

And evolution would dictate that they have a humanoid form.

That is a rather silly assertion. What makes you think that the only body form that is dexterous and can be intelligent is the one we currently occupy? That is false with even a modicum of thought. The form that a particular intelligent life is going to take if there are some out there are going to depend on the conditions of the planet it evolves on and also on the other forms of life that it is competing with.

It's taken a lot of thought actually.

Evolution works on limited resources. Almost all of our resources went to development of our brain. That's why we are weak physically. And why we don't have extra arms or legs or eight eyes. Resources were shifted to brain development. Once we were intelligent enough to invent medicine, we stopped evolving. Because survival of the fittest doesn't apply to us anymore.

All you need is two eyes, for 3d vision. Two ears for 3d hearing. Two legs for moving. And two arms with appendages with enough complex dexterity to make tools. That's a lot of resources! Not to mention our incredibly advanced brain.

Once you get to that point, evolution will stop, or at least slow down to a crawl.

Now obviously, the brain, eyes, and ears should be higher on the body to provide the most benefit.

The legs should be low to provide the most traction.

The arms should be midway to provide the most reach.

Add them all up, for an alien capable of building a spaceship, and you get a humanoid type body. Not exactly like us, but similar.

Again, that is a ton of assumptions. 2 legs are not even the norm on this planet let alone on one that may have much higher gravity or a million other considerations. If we are talking about an almost entirely aquatic planet then no legs at all would be the more likely outcome. 2 eyes for 3d vision only works on a planet that has a rather clear atmosphere. If the atmosphere was dense or does not let much light through then something like echo location would be far superior.

We're talking about an alien that built the UFO and travelled here. Why is this concept so difficult for everyone? I'm not talking about going to another planet and finding new life there.

 

[Frannie]

A mucous blob is not going to roll out of a spaceship. They need dexterity and building and survival skills. And obviously extreme intelligence.

And evolution would dictate that they have a humanoid form.

That is a rather silly assertion. What makes you think that the only body form that is dexterous and can be intelligent is the one we currently occupy? That is false with even a modicum of thought. The form that a particular intelligent life is going to take if there are some out there are going to depend on the conditions of the planet it evolves on and also on the other forms of life that it is competing with.

It's taken a lot of thought actually.

Evolution works on limited resources. Almost all of our resources went to development of our brain. That's why we are weak physically. And why we don't have extra arms or legs or eight eyes. Resources were shifted to brain development. Once we were intelligent enough to invent medicine, we stopped evolving. Because survival of the fittest doesn't apply to us anymore.

All you need is two eyes, for 3d vision. Two ears for 3d hearing. Two legs for moving. And two arms with appendages with enough complex dexterity to make tools. That's a lot of resources! Not to mention our incredibly advanced brain.

Once you get to that point, evolution will stop, or at least slow down to a crawl.

Now obviously, the brain, eyes, and ears should be higher on the body to provide the most benefit.

The legs should be low to provide the most traction.

The arms should be midway to provide the most reach.

Add them all up, for an alien capable of building a spaceship, and you get a humanoid type body. Not exactly like us, but similar.

Again, that is a ton of assumptions. 2 legs are not even the norm on this planet let alone on one that may have much higher gravity or a million other considerations. If we are talking about an almost entirely aquatic planet then no legs at all would be the more likely outcome. 2 eyes for 3d vision only works on a planet that has a rather clear atmosphere. If the atmosphere was dense or does not let much light through then something like echo location would be far superior.

We're talking about an alien that built the UFO and travelled here. Why is this concept so difficult for everyone? I'm not talking about going to another planet and finding new life there.

I am not talking.

You are babbling

When your mind opens your mother will stop spoon feeding you

 

[RWS]

If a UFO lands on the white house lawn, and the door opens, it's probably going to be a humanoid figure that comes out.

 

[RWS]

It's not going to be a friggin jellyfish, it's not going to be a friggin dog. It's going to be more like us.

And that's gonna screw up religion.

 

[toobfreak]

This, according to some estimate, give or take quite a few zeroes I'm sure. A deeper philosophical question which goes beyond theology, though it certainly entangles it.

So, this number again, 1000000000000000000000 planets! According to The Institute of Astronomy at University of Cambridge. How many solar systems are there? | Institute of Astronomy

Putting the exact estimation aside. We would have to take a massive leap of faith to think that not only is there NOT other life in the universe, but, also of such existences, that there aren't many far more advanced than us.

Imagine a planet the size of Jupiter, 100's of billions of citizens. Imagine them not having our reptilian instincts of rage and violence, or developing weapons of war to be used against each other. Consider if they had the average brain power 250x that of our smartest humans, and existed for much longer, maybe lived on average 10000 years.

What would be the end result? Is there any religion that makes any consideration for this possibility (outside, I think Scientology)? It really is a daunting concept. We could be the most advanced by far, we might be Gods great creation. It would hardly seem we could be alone though based on the odds and even plain randomness.

THE LIKELY STORY:

• More stars in the sky than grains of sand on the beaches and very likely most all of them not in binary systems have between a few to a dozen planets each.
• Most likely conditions on several of them around each star sufficient to allow liquid water and elemental life.
• But the conditions to allow animal life are extremely rare.
• Out of those few extremely rare instances where animal life can develop are conditions ripe and stable long enough in but a minute fraction of those for technically advanced intelligent life to develop.
• Out of the minute number of technical, intelligent living planets, only a minute number of those survive long enough either by natural disaster or self-destruction to ever communicate outward or explore space.
• Out of the infinitesimal number of such species to reach outward into space in the few hundred or thousands of years they are active to do so, only an infinitesimal number of them are doing so AT THE SAME TIME across the millions and billions of years as a similarly advanced race in a nearby star system to ever recognize the other's efforts, meet or communicate.
• Out of the microscopic spec of those intelligent species that survive truly long enough to grow out of war, self-destruction to spread out into space and avoid self-destruction, they may go on to evolve so far and so technologically advanced as to not even recognize nor care about our feeble efforts, much less want to talk to us. They'd have nothing in common with us.
• So while life abounds everywhere and will be found at some simple level in perhaps 2-3 places in our solar system other than here in the next few centuries if we survive, and in the coming millennia if we outgrow our childhood we might eventually discover evolved animal life around another star, the truly great, long-lived, advanced species will be galactic, spread among the globular clusters, maybe millions of years ahead of us, and likely will be rarely found unless we survive to evolve into being one of them.

 

[Frannie]

It's not going to be a friggin jellyfish, it's not going to be a friggin dog. It's going to be more like us.

And that's gonna screw up religion.

Why do you believe that all intelligent aliens must be humanoid, when most human aliens are morons? Just from the diversity of life on Earth one would conclude your theory is foolish, as the diversity in the universe logically is trillions of times Earth diversity. Your further demand that you know how alien vehicles or transport devises must be built is even more foolish now, isn't it.

How many years did you spend in school to demonstrate this much stupidity

 

[toobfreak]

It's not going to be a friggin jellyfish, it's not going to be a friggin dog. It's going to be more like us.

And that's gonna screw up religion.

Why do you believe that all intelligent aliens must be humanoid, when most human aliens are morons? Just from the diversity of life on Earth one would conclude your theory is foolish, as the diversity in the universe logically is trillions of times Earth diversity. Your further demand that you know how alien vehicles or transport devises must be built is even more foolish now, isn't it.

How many years did you spend in school to demonstrate this much stupidity

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but actually Fran, you are wrong. Carbon life is the natural result of the fact that carbon combines so easily in so many ways, and the condition which allow it, liquid water, temperature, gravity, light, etc., that the Earth enjoys, will necessarily be similar anywhere else carbon life develops, so science actually predicts that life will follow certain basic patterns and similarities. So yes, variation, differences, but variations and differences based within a certain framework of biological necessity.

 

[Likkmee]

If a UFO lands on the white house lawn, and the door opens, it's probably going to be a humanoid figure that comes out.

Like a pumpkin with 2 arms, 2 legs and ceramic teeth ?

 

[Frannie]

It's not going to be a friggin jellyfish, it's not going to be a friggin dog. It's going to be more like us.

And that's gonna screw up religion.

Why do you believe that all intelligent aliens must be humanoid, when most human aliens are morons? Just from the diversity of life on Earth one would conclude your theory is foolish, as the diversity in the universe logically is trillions of times Earth diversity. Your further demand that you know how alien vehicles or transport devises must be built is even more foolish now, isn't it.

How many years did you spend in school to demonstrate this much stupidity

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but actually Fran, you are wrong. Carbon life is the natural result of the fact that carbon combines so easily in so many ways, and the condition which allow it, liquid water, temperature, gravity, light, etc., that the Earth enjoys, will necessarily be similar anywhere else carbon life develops, so science actually predicts that life will follow certain basic patterns and similarities. So yes, variation, differences, but variations and differences based within a certain framework of biological necessity.

You are wrong, you are basing your ideas on all that you know and making an assumption that all you know is that all there is.

Are you aware that there is life on Earth that uses arsenic?

You are a little child that wants to be the center of the universe, everything great is just like you.

This is foolishness

 

[Frannie]

If a UFO lands on the white house lawn, and the door opens, it's probably going to be a humanoid figure that comes out.

Like a pumpkin with 2 arms, 2 legs and ceramic teeth ?

Just as likely as 2 arms 2 legs and empty head

 

[westwall]

A humanoid figure is ideal.

Not really. Multiple limbs is superior.

 

[Flash]

This, according to some estimate, give or take quite a few zeroes I'm sure. A deeper philosophical question which goes beyond theology, though it certainly entangles it.

So, this number again, 1000000000000000000000 planets! According to The Institute of Astronomy at University of Cambridge. How many solar systems are there? | Institute of Astronomy

Putting the exact estimation aside. We would have to take a massive leap of faith to think that not only is there NOT other life in the universe, but, also of such existences, that there aren't many far more advanced than us.

Imagine a planet the size of Jupiter, 100's of billions of citizens. Imagine them not having our reptilian instincts of rage and violence, or developing weapons of war to be used against each other. Consider if they had the average brain power 250x that of our smartest humans, and existed for much longer, maybe lived on average 10000 years.

What would be the end result? Is there any religion that makes any consideration for this possibility (outside, I think Scientology)? It really is a daunting concept. We could be the most advanced by far, we might be Gods great creation. It would hardly seem we could be alone though based on the odds and even plain randomness.

THE LIKELY STORY:

• More stars in the sky than grains of sand on the beaches and very likely most all of them not in binary systems have between a few to a dozen planets each.
• Most likely conditions on several of them around each star sufficient to allow liquid water and elemental life.
• But the conditions to allow animal life are extremely rare.
• Out of those few extremely rare instances where animal life can develop are conditions ripe and stable long enough in but a minute fraction of those for technically advanced intelligent life to develop.
• Out of the minute number of technical, intelligent living planets, only a minute number of those survive long enough either by natural disaster or self-destruction to ever communicate outward or explore space.
• Out of the infinitesimal number of such species to reach outward into space in the few hundred or thousands of years they are active to do so, only an infinitesimal number of them are doing so AT THE SAME TIME across the millions and billions of years as a similarly advanced race in a nearby star system to ever recognize the other's efforts, meet or communicate.
• Out of the microscopic spec of those intelligent species that survive truly long enough to grow out of war, self-destruction to spread out into space and avoid self-destruction, they may go on to evolve so far and so technologically advanced as to not even recognize nor care about our feeble efforts, much less want to talk to us. They'd have nothing in common with us.
• So while life abounds everywhere and will be found at some simple level in perhaps 2-3 places in our solar system other than here in the next few centuries if we survive, and in the coming millennia if we outgrow our childhood we might eventually discover evolved animal life around another star, the truly great, long-lived, advanced species will be galactic, spread among the globular clusters, maybe millions of years ahead of us, and likely will be rarely found unless we survive to evolve into being one of them.

Or not.

 

[Flash]

Let me list everything that we know for certain about life in the universe.

1. It exists on earth.

 

[bripat9643]

A humanoid figure is ideal.

Not really. Multiple limbs is superior.

How so? If we had four arms, two of the would rarely get used.

 

[bripat9643]

If a UFO lands on the white house lawn, and the door opens, it's probably going to be a humanoid figure that comes out.

That depends on how you define "humanoid." Do the legs bend the same way? Do the arms bend the same way?

 

[westwall]

A humanoid figure is ideal.

Not really. Multiple limbs is superior.

How so? If we had four arms, two of the would rarely get used.

Multiple limbs allow multiple jobs to be done at the same time. Also, redundancy. Lose a limb as a human and it is a significant loss. Lose a limb as an octopus, and it is not nearly as significant.

 

[bripat9643]

A humanoid figure is ideal.

Not really. Multiple limbs is superior.

How so? If we had four arms, two of the would rarely get used.

Multiple limbs allow multiple jobs to be done at the same time. Also, redundancy. Lose a limb as a human and it is a significant loss. Lose a limb as an octopus, and it is not nearly as significant.

When something is redundant, evolution tends to get rid of it. Rarely are there occasions when multiple things need to be done at the same time. Can you name any?

The minimum number of limbs required for walking is two. The same number are needed to carry things or to manufacture tools. Anything more is redundant.

 

[westwall]

A humanoid figure is ideal.

Not really. Multiple limbs is superior.

How so? If we had four arms, two of the would rarely get used.

Multiple limbs allow multiple jobs to be done at the same time. Also, redundancy. Lose a limb as a human and it is a significant loss. Lose a limb as an octopus, and it is not nearly as significant.

When something is redundant, evolution tends to get rid of it. Rarely are there occasions when multiple things need to be done at the same time. Can you name any?

The minimum number of limbs required for walking is two. The same number are needed to carry things or to manufacture tools. Anything more is redundant.

Then why do we have octopoids? Who have been on this planet for far longer than man has?