Zone1 The Best Evidence For The Resurrection

[ding]

No worries.

Sure, just like we discussed about history being written by the victors.

The second part of this is the narrative of the gospels. If the resurrection never occurred. How do you explain the gospels making a concerted effort to show the resurrection as an historical event?

 

[Bad Bob]

Ok, set that aside for a minute. Forget writing history. Forget the gospels. It should be obvious that there was a starting point for believing Jesus is divine. It had to begin somewhere. It had to begin with someone. It had to begin some place. Which is more credible; believing something that is far fetched because of what you saw and experienced or believing something far fetched because of something you were told?

As an example... Let's say you saw and encountered aliens and I didn't. Is it more plausible that you would believe in the existence of aliens because of what you saw and experienced? Or that I would believe in aliens because of something you told me?

"Rising from the dead" after a crucifixion is a pretty good starting point.

As for aliens, in modern times, I'd examine the evidence and suggest they see a doctor....especially if the person claimed to be "anally probed".

 

[ding]

"Rising from the dead" after a crucifixion is a pretty good starting point.

As for aliens, in modern times, I'd examine the evidence and suggest they see a doctor....especially if the person claimed to be "anally probed".

I agree on both counts. The trick is in figuring it out which is which without actually witnessing and experiencing it. That's where objectivity and deductive reasoning is required. It's actually not hard to be objective. Eliminate all thoughts of self and preference. Think of it this way, when you have no stake in something and no one you know has a stake in something or don't know anything about the people involved that do have a stake in something, it's quite easy to see things as they are.

 

[Bad Bob]

I agree on both counts. The trick is in figuring it out which is which without actually witnessing and experiencing it. That's where objectivity and deductive reasoning is required. It's actually not hard to be objective. Eliminate all thoughts of self and preference. Think of it this way, when you have no stake in something and don't know anyone who has a stake in something or don't know anything about the people involved that do have a stake in something, it's quite easy to see things as they are.

My advice is to go with facts and physics.

There's no sign of life in the Universe except on Earth and there's no proof of miracles, magic, ESP or anything else that violates the natural laws of the Universe. I believe God created the Universe and it was created with set laws. It doesn't make sense for God to cheat.

 

[ding]

My advice is to go with facts and physics.

There's no sign of life in the Universe except on Earth and there's no proof of miracles, magic, ESP or anything else that violates the natural laws of the Universe. I believe God created the Universe and it was created with set laws. It doesn't make sense for God to cheat.

What if what we perceive as matter and energy is just information?

 

[Bad Bob]

What if what we perceive as matter and energy is just information?

Maybe we're all holograms or just in a giant game of "The Sims"?

 

[ding]

Maybe we're all holograms or just in a giant game of "The Sims"?

Maybe. That's information too. It's not far fetched. Decades ago world renowned physicists believed in the linkage between mind and matter. Today it's called "it from bit." Both of which postulate that rather than mind being a late outgrowth of the evolution of space and time, that consciousness or mind existed as the source or matrix of the material universe. Personally I don't see how it can be any other way than that.

 

[Bad Bob]

Maybe. That's information too. It's not far fetched. Decades ago world renowned physicists believed in the linkage between mind and matter. Today it's called "it from bit." Both of which postulate that rather than mind being a late outgrowth of the evolution of space and time, that consciousness or mind existed as the source or matrix of the material universe. Personally I don't see how it can be any other way than that.

Maybe we'll find out when we're dead?

 

[ding]

Maybe we'll find out when we're dead?

How will that help you?

 

[Bad Bob]

How will that help you?

Unknown.

 

[BreezeWood]

their explanation in the 4th century christian bible is exactly what roman ordinance was disobeyed for them to murder jesus and the retribution against rome was - what.

I have no idea what you are trying to suggest or are you positing the calumny against the Jews as deicides?

jesus never claimed divinity was never a jew and certainly did not acquiesce to the jew allegations as what they claimed having ever occurred ... king of the jews.

usually when the state is responsible for an execution they do mention their concerns publicly and the laws broken for their judgement - you do have a copy of that manifest to corroborate your view roman law being responsible and the laws they used in determining their verdict.

- surprisingly as no roman law being on recorded was ever breached by jesus during that time and manifests the notion jesus and their pilgrimage were never a threat to the roman order or their occupation.

 

[BreezeWood]

I don't believe the Civil War is a good example of that unless you believe Democrats were the victors.

more apply, north over the south ...

 

[ShahdagMountains]

This is a thought provoking movie which challenges all beliefs.

The skeleton of a crucified man discovered at a cave in Jerusalem is suspected to be the bones of Christ. Trouble ensues as the beliefs of extremists and clerics are put to an ultimate test.

https://www.imdb.com/de/title/tt0201485/

 

[BreezeWood]

If, as you have written, Jesus knew what the outcome was going to be, namely that he was the divinely sent sacrifice for humankind and was also a divine being himself why does the author of Matthew have him uttering those cries of despair?

jesus knew the task they chose, the repudiation of judaism false commandments et al almost certainly would have the outcome that did occur - stone throwing jews is not so hard to anticipate their end game.

they were heavenly exemplars for their courage and insight to the heavens, liberation theology, self determination the original religion of antiquity nothing more - perhaps they thought they would accomplish more than they did.

 

[ding]

Unknown.

That's fair. How will it help you in this world?

 

[ding]

more apply, north over the south ...

And yet the Democrats in the north voted in lockstep with the Democrats in the south.

 

[Ace Nova]

jesus knew the task they chose, the repudiation of judaism false commandments et al almost certainly would have the outcome that did occur - stone throwing jews is not so hard to anticipate their end game.

they were heavenly exemplars for their courage and insight to the heavens, liberation theology, self determination the original religion of antiquity nothing more - perhaps they thought they would accomplish more than they did.

Liberation theology and self determination are amazing in thought and even better when put to action with success.

That said - who other than Adam and Eve have succeeded according to your belief?

 

[Ace Nova]

jesus never claimed divinity was never a jew and certainly did not acquiesce to the jew allegations as what they claimed having ever occurred ... king of the jews.

usually when the state is responsible for an execution they do mention their concerns publicly and the laws broken for their judgement - you do have a copy of that manifest to corroborate your view roman law being responsible and the laws they used in determining their verdict.

- surprisingly as no roman law being on recorded was ever breached by jesus during that time and manifests the notion jesus and their pilgrimage were never a threat to the roman order or their occupation.

You are correct when thinking that Jesus was not a threat to Rome. He was viewed as a threat by religious leaders once his followers began to preach about his miracles and teachings - even though he had specifically told them not to do so on various occasions. (In all likelihood he would have wanted to do it himself at an appropriate time).

Matthew 13:

But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is always treated with honor except in his hometown and in his own house. ”;And he did not work many mighty deeds there because of their lack of faith.

 

[Hypatia415]

jesus never claimed divinity was never a jew and certainly did not acquiesce to the jew allegations as what they claimed having ever occurred ... king of the jews.

Under Roman law being suspected of claiming to the Messiah or be acclaimed as such was enough to warrant the death penalty. Jesus of Nazareth was a peasant Jew and Pilate would have little concerns about executing such an individual. It also remains a possibility that the two "bandits" executed with him may have been members of his own group.

Your comment about Jesus not being a Jew is risible. Did you find it on some Aryan Christian site?

usually when the state is responsible for an execution they do mention their concerns publicly and the laws broken for their judgement - you do have a copy of that manifest to corroborate your view roman law being responsible and the laws they used in determining their verdict.

You do realise we are considering an event some two thousand years ago? It is possible that the execution was mentioned along with other day to day issues in a report to Rome but if that was the case then the record has been lost.

- surprisingly as no roman law being on recorded was ever breached by jesus during that time and manifests the notion jesus and their pilgrimage were never a threat to the roman order or their occupation.

You seem remarkably uninformed about that of which you are writing.

Passover would see Jerusalem's population increase by thousands as pilgrims flocked to the city for that major Jewish festival. Hence each year the governor came to Jerusalem bringing additional troops to reinforce the existing garrison in the Antonia in case trouble broke out.

The Passover also celebrates Jewish liberation from the rule of the foreign "heathen" power of Egypt and would have resonated with Jews in the early first century who were again being ruled by the foreign "heathen" power of Rome and that power's appointed client monarchs. Hence the city at Passover was a potential powder-keg.

The gospel of Mark mentions an uprising and that insurrectionists involved in that uprising had murder and were in prison. That scenario leads to the author's invention of the Passover amnesty. So whether it actually occurred or is a dramatic hook for that narrative remains questionable. However, we do know that there had been serious Jewish rebellions within the region in the late first century BCE and the early first century CE that Rome and its Herodian allies had been compelled to put down.

 

[Hypatia415]

Lot's of people believe God forsakes them. It's quite common.

Lots of people"? So for you Jesus was a mere man?

In the account of the storm at sea the apostles were clinging for dear life as the storm raged on.... while Jesus slept. That's how people see God when they are in the "storms" of their lives... asleep. It couldn't be farther from the truth. The flesh is of no avail. We are spiritual beings experiencing a material existence.

Your last sentence echoes a track by The Police!

Was that intentional?