The ‘battery fairy’ and other delusions in the demand to replace gasoline powered vehicles with electric cars and trucks

[iamwhatiseem]

Where will all the power to charge these EV's come form?

Add in the mining for rare-earth minerals which is very environmentally unfriendly.

Plus the massive problem of used-up batteries.

...​

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But Akio Toyoda, CEO of Toyota Motors, the world’s largest (or second largest, depending on the year). and grandson of the automaker’s founder, has spoken out and called out fallacy of thinking that this is possible or desirable. [I must here disclose that I was a consultant for a Toyota company for several years, but that all my comments on the company here are based on publicly available information.]​

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According to this account in CarBuzz:​

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As the grandson of Toyota founder, Kiichiro Toyoda, the scion was raised surrounded by all aspects of the auto industry and his business acumen is second to none. So when he had some harsh words for electric vehicles at the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association end-of-year press conference last week, people took notice.​

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The Wall Street Journal was in attendance and noted the CEO's disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they'll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. "The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse," he said. "The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, 'Let's get rid of all cars using gasoline,' do they understand this?"​

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Studies detailing the carbon emissions necessary to manufacture an electric vehicle reveal that on a net basis, there are more emissions for vehicle bought and used for its expected lifetime, than would be generated by buying and using a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle.​

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​

...​

The ‘battery fairy’ and other delusions in the demand to replace gasoline powered vehicles with electric cars and trucks

I continue to be amazed that serious people think that gasoline powered vehicles can be completely replaced by electric vehicles in a decade-and-a-half, and that this would be a good thing, even if possible. Under threat of government action, however...

www.americanthinker.com

Another fantastic reminder of the lengths virtue signaling goes.
On one hand, replacing the internal combustion engine with something else is past it's time. Granted.
But replacing it with a caustic, environmental destroying wall of batteries is not it.
The science is obvious. But of course, reality never once stood in the way of the left's devoted need to virtue signal.

 

[pknopp]

Are you calling General Motors and the Ford Motor Company part of the wacko left?

Oh, absolutely, big time. That's downtown Detroit. Totally sold out to the labor unions, UAW etc. Health and workman's compensation insurance on the job, defined benefit pension plan, government mandated airbags, seatbelt asshattery, ambulance response to the front lines at the factory, etc. etc.

You realize ExxonMobil, as well as many other long time big corporations have the same or similar benefits for their workers too, don't you? Is ExxonMobil wacko left too?

Unless you believe in space lasers you are the "left".

 

[candycorn]

Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.

Why do you go and make the Democrat's cry with such a post ?? LOL.

You're not carrying that water for them now ???

Not sure why that makes democrats cry. We're moving away from fossil fuels. It is inevitable. Exxon may be the General Electric of the future.

Your last post contradicts this post by you, now do better. LOL

It does? elaborate.

You're not illiterate, so I don't need to elaborate.

I'm right, I'm not illiterate...but you sure seem to be. Hence your failure to show the contradiction. Run along little boy.

 

[jknowgood]

Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.

Lol, Biden has put us on a non gas power grid soon. There will not be enough energy to charge the batteries. California is what we have to look forward to.

 

[candycorn]

Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.

Lol, Biden has put us on a non gas power grid soon. There will not be enough energy to charge the batteries. California is what we have to look forward to.

False.

 

[beagle9]

Where will all the power to charge these EV's come form?

Add in the mining for rare-earth minerals which is very environmentally unfriendly.

Plus the massive problem of used-up batteries.

...​

​

But Akio Toyoda, CEO of Toyota Motors, the world’s largest (or second largest, depending on the year). and grandson of the automaker’s founder, has spoken out and called out fallacy of thinking that this is possible or desirable. [I must here disclose that I was a consultant for a Toyota company for several years, but that all my comments on the company here are based on publicly available information.]​

​

​

According to this account in CarBuzz:​

​

​

As the grandson of Toyota founder, Kiichiro Toyoda, the scion was raised surrounded by all aspects of the auto industry and his business acumen is second to none. So when he had some harsh words for electric vehicles at the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association end-of-year press conference last week, people took notice.​

​

The Wall Street Journal was in attendance and noted the CEO's disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they'll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. "The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse," he said. "The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, 'Let's get rid of all cars using gasoline,' do they understand this?"​

​

​

Studies detailing the carbon emissions necessary to manufacture an electric vehicle reveal that on a net basis, there are more emissions for vehicle bought and used for its expected lifetime, than would be generated by buying and using a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle.​

​

​

...​

The ‘battery fairy’ and other delusions in the demand to replace gasoline powered vehicles with electric cars and trucks

I continue to be amazed that serious people think that gasoline powered vehicles can be completely replaced by electric vehicles in a decade-and-a-half, and that this would be a good thing, even if possible. Under threat of government action, however...

www.americanthinker.com

Another fantastic reminder of the lengths virtue signaling goes.
On one hand, replacing the internal combustion engine with something else is past it's time. Granted.
But replacing it with a caustic, environmental destroying wall of batteries is not it.
The science is obvious. But of course, reality never once stood in the way of the left's devoted need to virtue signal.

In a state where my brother lives, there was a battery plant that poisoned the environment badly, and it was shut down years ago. Nothing has been built or opened up on the land since he says. Cancer was rampant in the area he also said.

The only way that I can imagine an electric system being a reality without the extensive contamination, is to produce a rechargable on board battery that can be recharged by the on board system as the motion of the vehicle allows for this process to happen. Otherwise the battery wouldn't have to be changed out for years, and all due to it's durability to withstand recharging up until the vehicle has past it's lifespan expectancy.

Would still have to have the plants that produce such a thing, but the volume or quantity of production would be limited or low in production because of the high quality, longevity, and value of the battery to be used in such a vehicle.

 

[jknowgood]

Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.

Lol, Biden has put us on a non gas power grid soon. There will not be enough energy to charge the batteries. California is what we have to look forward to.

False.

The technology isn't there to replace our energy now. Fact, but Biden wouldn’t know that if it smacked his dementia head.

 

[beagle9]

Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.

Lol, Biden has put us on a non gas power grid soon. There will not be enough energy to charge the batteries. California is what we have to look forward to.

Biden is being filled with lies and agenda's from his puppet master's, and he will sign and do anything they say regardless of what he thinks or can't think anymore.

 

[jknowgood]

Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.

Lol, Biden has put us on a non gas power grid soon. There will not be enough energy to charge the batteries. California is what we have to look forward to.

Biden is being filled with lies and agenda's from his puppet master's, and he will sign and do anything they say regardless of what he thinks or can't think anymore.

Yep and all the while using Harris for their perverted fantasies. Before the replace Joe with her.

 

[beagle9]

Electric vehicles will become the standard over the next 50 years or so. Will they completely replace the internal combustion engines? no.

Lol, Biden has put us on a non gas power grid soon. There will not be enough energy to charge the batteries. California is what we have to look forward to.

Biden is being filled with lies and agenda's from his puppet master's, and he will sign and do anything they say regardless of what he thinks or can't think anymore.

Yep and all the while using Harris for their perverted fantasies. Before the replace Joe with her.

Sad but true. It's amazing the hypocritical state this country is in right now, where as everything accused of Trump on destroying the nation is actually before our very eyes now. Destruction doesn't mean nessesarily the destruction of money, materials, and the environment, but more so it's about the destruction of the soul, the spirit, the things not seen, but is the inward motor that drives the human output, in which is responsible for the human created things we see be it by the human eye over what we are allowed to create in the physical relm in which we live here on earth or within.

 

[Blues Man]

No vehicle be it electric or gasoline powered will have a zero waste factor.

Yes used batteries can be an issue but we already recycle used care batteries in fact you can't have a battery replaced where the shop doesn't recycle the old one. Even if you DIY the auto part store will charge you an extra 50 bucks if you don't give them your old battery.

There may or may not be less issues with electric vehicles but I think it will likely be a wash as far as waste or disposal problems are concerned. But we can still decrease pollution and increase air quality

Let's not ignore the good in favor of the perfect

 

[BULLDOG]

Chevy going all electric by 2035, Ford investing 22 billion in electric vehicles. They wouldn't make those big investment if they didn't think the problems weren't mostly solved. This is the kind of progress that can be made when the Democrats contol the House, the Senate, the White House, and Pillows.

They have no choice. East Asia is eating their lunch. Union people got greedy along with upper management back in the heyday. Along with car dealerships who forgot who the customer was after a vehicle was purchased and shady repair shops caused all of this. East Asia puts out a better quality automobile. and if it was not for the truck platform part of the auto industry, they would be out of business or close to it. You can thank Deplorables for keeping them in business. Getting screwed over after purchasing vehicle after vehicle while trying to buy American ended up being fruitless and more then that, a sucker for those who talked one way but purchased vehicles designed from outside the United States.

Changing to electric vehicles won't change any of the things you mentioned. The only possible reason for their change would be to provide more of the vehicles that people will want to buy. Corporations that big don't make that kind of change on a whim.

 

[excalibur]

• Electric cars cannot currently be charged on a wide scale with renewable resources such as solar. Even if they could, however:


Solar cells contain heavy metals, and their manufacturing releases greenhouse gases such as sulfur hexafluoride, which has 23,000 times as much global warming potential as CO2, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What’s more, fossil fuels are burned in the extraction of the raw materials needed to make solar cells and wind turbines — and for their fabrication, assembly, and maintenance. The same is true for the redundant backup power plants they require. And even more fossil fuel is burned when all this equipment is decommissioned.


• A more responsible electric-car analysis would consider not just charging the vehicle, but also “the environmental impacts over the vehicle’s entire life cycle, from its construction through its operation and on to its eventual retirement at the junkyard.”


• An electric car’s battery pack is extremely heavy, which causes the manufacturer to compensate by constructing the remainder of the vehicle with “lightweight materials that are energy intensive to produce and process — carbon composites and aluminum in particular. Electric motors and batteries add to the energy of electric-car manufacture.”


• The rare earth metals used in many magnets in electric cars are expensive and uneconomical to extract on a wide scale. And the “global mining of two rare earth metals, neodymium and dysprosium, would need to increase 700 percent and 2600 percent, respectively, over the next 25 years to keep pace with various green-tech plans.” Alternatives do exist, but exploiting them would involve efficiency-and-cost trade-offs.


• The extraction and processing of materials found in batteries — such as lithium, copper, and nickel — “demand energy and can release toxic wastes.” In addition, extracting them in poorly regulated areas imperils not only workers, but also “surrounding populations through air and groundwater contamination.”


• A National Academies’ study considered multiple dimensions of electric vehicles’ associated effects — such as “vehicle construction, fuel extraction, refining, emissions, and other factors” — and “concluded that the vehicles’ lifetime health and environmental damages (excluding long-term climatic effects) are actually greater than those of gasoline-powered cars”; in fact, “the study found that an electric car is likely worse than a car fueled exclusively by gasoline derived from Canadian tar sands.”


• When electric cars’ total effects are considered, the level of “greenhouse-gas” emissions associated with them is only marginally lower than that associated with gas or diesel vehicles. A Norwegian study and a University of Tennessee study of electric vehicles in China drew similar conclusions.​

Study: Electric Vehicles Pollute More Than Gas-powered Cars - The New American

A new study has shown that electric cars, much touted as environment-friendly, actually emit more harmful pollutants than internal-combustion vehicles do. by Selwyn Duke

thenewamerican.com

 

[excalibur]

No vehicle be it electric or gasoline powered will have a zero waste factor.

Yes used batteries can be an issue but we already recycle used care batteries in fact you can't have a battery replaced where the shop doesn't recycle the old one. Even if you DIY the auto part store will charge you an extra 50 bucks if you don't give them your old battery.

There may or may not be less issues with electric vehicles but I think it will likely be a wash as far as waste or disposal problems are concerned. But we can still decrease pollution and increase air quality

Let's not ignore the good in favor of the perfect

There is usually one battery per car in modern vehicles. In EV's we are talking half-a-ton or more of batteries made from mining rare-earth minerals (lithium) and things like cobalt. The amount of increase in the mining of those minerals will need to go up 20-fold or more if the fools on the left have their way.

Oh, and the ChiComms love it.

“The transition to wind or solar power in the United States would require five to 20 times more land area than previously thought, and if such large-scale wind farms were built, would warm average surface temperatures over the continental United States by 0.24 degrees Celsius,” the university press release said.​

Green New Deal would fuel ‘massive increase’ in mining for batteries, turbines, solar panels: Report

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal has been decried as an economy killer, but a study released Thursday found that the sweeping climate change resolution would come as an enormous boon to the mining industry.

www.washingtontimes.com

 

[excalibur]

“There’s not one step of the rare earth mining process that is not disastrous for the environment,” Greenpeace China’s Jamie Choi said in a 2011 report. “Ores are being extracted by pumping acid into the ground, and then they are processed using more acids and chemicals.”

The cobalt used for batteries in laptops, smartphones, and electric cars is mined primarily in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where an estimated 40,000 children “work alongside their parents and suffer under inhumane working conditions while digging for this cobalt,” the Heartland report said.

While there are U.S. reserves of strategic minerals, anti-mining activists have fought to block mining exploration in Alaska and Western states, forcing U.S. dependence on China and other countries with weaker environmental protections, the study said.​

Dems' Climate Plan Would Fuel Massive Increase In Rare-Earth Mining

The Green New Deal would cause a massive, worldwide increase in mining and eco-destruction.

climatechangedispatch.com

 

[BULLDOG]

​

​

​

​

• Electric cars cannot currently be charged on a wide scale with renewable resources such as solar. Even if they could, however:​

​

​

Solar cells contain heavy metals, and their manufacturing releases greenhouse gases such as sulfur hexafluoride, which has 23,000 times as much global warming potential as CO2, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. What’s more, fossil fuels are burned in the extraction of the raw materials needed to make solar cells and wind turbines — and for their fabrication, assembly, and maintenance. The same is true for the redundant backup power plants they require. And even more fossil fuel is burned when all this equipment is decommissioned.​

​

​

• A more responsible electric-car analysis would consider not just charging the vehicle, but also “the environmental impacts over the vehicle’s entire life cycle, from its construction through its operation and on to its eventual retirement at the junkyard.”​

​

​

• An electric car’s battery pack is extremely heavy, which causes the manufacturer to compensate by constructing the remainder of the vehicle with “lightweight materials that are energy intensive to produce and process — carbon composites and aluminum in particular. Electric motors and batteries add to the energy of electric-car manufacture.”​

​

​

• The rare earth metals used in many magnets in electric cars are expensive and uneconomical to extract on a wide scale. And the “global mining of two rare earth metals, neodymium and dysprosium, would need to increase 700 percent and 2600 percent, respectively, over the next 25 years to keep pace with various green-tech plans.” Alternatives do exist, but exploiting them would involve efficiency-and-cost trade-offs.​

​

​

• The extraction and processing of materials found in batteries — such as lithium, copper, and nickel — “demand energy and can release toxic wastes.” In addition, extracting them in poorly regulated areas imperils not only workers, but also “surrounding populations through air and groundwater contamination.”​

​

​

• A National Academies’ study considered multiple dimensions of electric vehicles’ associated effects — such as “vehicle construction, fuel extraction, refining, emissions, and other factors” — and “concluded that the vehicles’ lifetime health and environmental damages (excluding long-term climatic effects) are actually greater than those of gasoline-powered cars”; in fact, “the study found that an electric car is likely worse than a car fueled exclusively by gasoline derived from Canadian tar sands.”​

​

​

• When electric cars’ total effects are considered, the level of “greenhouse-gas” emissions associated with them is only marginally lower than that associated with gas or diesel vehicles. A Norwegian study and a University of Tennessee study of electric vehicles in China drew similar conclusions.​

Study: Electric Vehicles Pollute More Than Gas-powered Cars - The New American

A new study has shown that electric cars, much touted as environment-friendly, actually emit more harmful pollutants than internal-combustion vehicles do. by Selwyn Duke

thenewamerican.com

I'm guessing Ford and Chevy didn't depend on outside studies.

 

[Blues Man]

No vehicle be it electric or gasoline powered will have a zero waste factor.

Yes used batteries can be an issue but we already recycle used care batteries in fact you can't have a battery replaced where the shop doesn't recycle the old one. Even if you DIY the auto part store will charge you an extra 50 bucks if you don't give them your old battery.

There may or may not be less issues with electric vehicles but I think it will likely be a wash as far as waste or disposal problems are concerned. But we can still decrease pollution and increase air quality

Let's not ignore the good in favor of the perfect

There is usually one battery per car in modern vehicles. In EV's we are talking half-a-ton or more of batteries made from mining rare-earth minerals (lithium) and things like cobalt. The amount of increase in the mining of those minerals will need to go up 20-fold or more if the fools on the left have their way.

Oh, and the ChiComms love it.

“The transition to wind or solar power in the United States would require five to 20 times more land area than previously thought, and if such large-scale wind farms were built, would warm average surface temperatures over the continental United States by 0.24 degrees Celsius,” the university press release said.​

Green New Deal would fuel ‘massive increase’ in mining for batteries, turbines, solar panels: Report

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal has been decried as an economy killer, but a study released Thursday found that the sweeping climate change resolution would come as an enormous boon to the mining industry.

www.washingtontimes.com

I have never believed wind and solar can meet our power needs.

We should be going all in on next generation nuclear reactors

 

[Claudette]

“There’s not one step of the rare earth mining process that is not disastrous for the environment,” Greenpeace China’s Jamie Choi said in a 2011 report. “Ores are being extracted by pumping acid into the ground, and then they are processed using more acids and chemicals.”​

​

The cobalt used for batteries in laptops, smartphones, and electric cars is mined primarily in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where an estimated 40,000 children “work alongside their parents and suffer under inhumane working conditions while digging for this cobalt,” the Heartland report said.​

​

While there are U.S. reserves of strategic minerals, anti-mining activists have fought to block mining exploration in Alaska and Western states, forcing U.S. dependence on China and other countries with weaker environmental protections, the study said.​

Dems' Climate Plan Would Fuel Massive Increase In Rare-Earth Mining

The Green New Deal would cause a massive, worldwide increase in mining and eco-destruction.

climatechangedispatch.com

Looks like electric cars aren't any better than gasoline driven cars. Expensive as hell I'd say.

 

[dannyboys]

No vehicle be it electric or gasoline powered will have a zero waste factor.

Yes used batteries can be an issue but we already recycle used care batteries in fact you can't have a battery replaced where the shop doesn't recycle the old one. Even if you DIY the auto part store will charge you an extra 50 bucks if you don't give them your old battery.

There may or may not be less issues with electric vehicles but I think it will likely be a wash as far as waste or disposal problems are concerned. But we can still decrease pollution and increase air quality

Let's not ignore the good in favor of the perfect

Used batteries that supposedly are being recycled are IN FACT quitely being buried in landfills all over the US.
The cost of 'recycling' a car battery is prohibitive. Not to mention very toxic to the environment.

 

[22lcidw]

Are you calling General Motors and the Ford Motor Company part of the wacko left?

Oh, absolutely, big time. That's downtown Detroit. Totally sold out to the labor unions, UAW etc. Health and workman's compensation insurance on the job, defined benefit pension plan, government mandated airbags, seatbelt asshattery, ambulance response to the front lines at the factory, etc. etc.

You realize ExxonMobil, as well as many other long time big corporations have the same or similar benefits for their workers too, don't you? Is ExxonMobil wacko left too?

Unless you believe in space lasers you are the "left".

W back in the first couple years of the century promoted Hydrogen powered cars. When the Prog Congress took over they eliminated it. Why? Hydrogen can be taken from water. Salt water. we never got a reason for it. Bu tthen maybe it was to make people rich backed by their own politicians. Like oil being transported by rail cars instead of pipelines and costing 3 times more to do so as Biden's executive order did for his corporatist masters.