The Alternative Plan That Obama Claims Doesn't Exist

[ron4342]

I'm sorry but you're spinning like a top. The ACA and the heritage foundation plan both mandate insurance coverage by individuals in the marketplace. Your distinction is puzzling.

What is the difference btn adequate coverage and comprehensive coverage? The ACA does not force anyone to buy insurance. For people that are poor, the ACA permits the purchase of catastrophic coverage only to avoid the penalty.

So just what are you talking about?

The ACA is forcing everyone to have a policy which includes the coverage THEY decided we need. This drives the costs WAY up for folks like me who don't need maternity, pediatric dental, mental health, and sex change coverage.

Libs here don't seem to know ANY facts about the ACA

And you don't seem to know anything about life. I buy autio insurance to protect myself if I crash into somebody or if somebody crashes into me. You purchase health insurance because you cannot predict the future. You could be absolutely fine today and lying in some emergency room on life support tomorrow.
I had a friend who thought like you.
"I don't need health care. I am fit and trim and in good health, so why would I want a health care plan?"
Then one day a drunk crashed into him at a stop sign. He will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair and the bottom line is that because he had no insurance, everyone of us will pay for his irresponsibility.
So don't give us that "I don't need health insurance" bullshit. Unless you can predict the future and be correct 100% of the time you have no clue about whether you will need health insurance or not. You could be the one hit by the drunk. You could be the innocent person shot and severely wounded in a street mugging or failed hold-up attempt. You could be the person who develops an incurable cancer. You could be the carrier of a gene that will give you a heart attack in the next few years. And on and on and on. When you can predict the future with absolute certainty get back to us about not needing insurance.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'm sorry but you're spinning like a top. The ACA and the heritage foundation plan both mandate insurance coverage by individuals in the marketplace. Your distinction is puzzling.

What is the difference btn adequate coverage and comprehensive coverage? The ACA does not force anyone to buy insurance. For people that are poor, the ACA permits the purchase of catastrophic coverage only to avoid the penalty.

So just what are you talking about?

The ACA is forcing everyone to have a policy which includes the coverage THEY decided we need. This drives the costs WAY up for folks like me who don't need maternity, pediatric dental, mental health, and sex change coverage.

Libs here don't seem to know ANY facts about the ACA

And you don't seem to know anything about life. I buy autio insurance to protect myself if I crash into somebody or if somebody crashes into me. You purchase health insurance because you cannot predict the future. You could be absolutely fine today and lying in some emergency room on life support tomorrow.
I had a friend who thought like you.
"I don't need health care. I am fit and trim and in good health, so why would I want a health care plan?"
Then one day a drunk crashed into him at a stop sign. He will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair and the bottom line is that because he had no insurance, everyone of us will pay for his irresponsibility.
So don't give us that "I don't need health insurance" bullshit. Unless you can predict the future and be correct 100% of the time you have no clue about whether you will need health insurance or not. You could be the one hit by the drunk. You could be the innocent person shot and severely wounded in a street mugging or failed hold-up attempt. You could be the person who develops an incurable cancer. You could be the carrier of a gene that will give you a heart attack in the next few years. And on and on and on. When you can predict the future with absolute certainty get back to us about not needing insurance.

The only one talking about not having any insurance coverage is you.

 

[RightDown]

I'm sorry but you're spinning like a top. The ACA and the heritage foundation plan both mandate insurance coverage by individuals in the marketplace. Your distinction is puzzling.

What is the difference btn adequate coverage and comprehensive coverage? The ACA does not force anyone to buy insurance. For people that are poor, the ACA permits the purchase of catastrophic coverage only to avoid the penalty.

So just what are you talking about?

The ACA is forcing everyone to have a policy which includes the coverage THEY decided we need. This drives the costs WAY up for folks like me who don't need maternity, pediatric dental, mental health, and sex change coverage.

Libs here don't seem to know ANY facts about the ACA

Why don't you point that out from the text of the ACA?

Simple request. you know so much about the statute you should have no problem.

 

[RightDown]

Like most libs you can't read and comprehend. No sense in restating my points over and over when all you hear are the voices in your head.

Well I just got off the phone with my doctor and he said that all testing he does is merited by the status of the patient. If the doctor fails to administer the tests necessary to fit the circumstance, then he's guilty of malpractice or professional negligence. I'm afraid that liability doesn't exist for superfluous tests to 'cover their asses' for any eventuality. If a doctor is padding his bill with unnecessary tests, then it must be some lawyer's fault. Rigggggggggggghhhhhttt.

In short, your doctor lied to you. Let me rephrase, your disturbing hatred of: government, the poor and middle class and Obama has warped you as a human being and you'll say just about anything to make a point....Mr. Anecdotal evidence.

You're lying. You didn't talk to anyone but the crazy voices in your head.

And you are the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I'm answering a guy who's using anecdotal evidence to support his prejudice. I'm satirizing his post. Do you see that now?

Ya see, I provided findings from an actual study showing that malpractice suits are not the cause of high healthcare costs.

And the stuff that my "doctor" said is still true...about negligence.

edit: that guy was you??? How about that. Well here's one for the road then, you're a typical brainwashed conservative...your doctor robs you with extra unnecessary tests and you blame...ta daaa liberal lawyers for the theft.

Do you see how that logic fits in with conservative propaganda about jobs too? Monied elites screw you sideways for pay and benefits and you blame...ta daaa unions (which get higher wages and better benefits).

Do you see that now?

I'm here to help and I mean that.

 

[Clementine]

There were several other plans offered up for health care reform, but I am guessing none were oppressive enough to suit Obama's tyrannical tastes.

Most libs will look the other way at yet another lie from Bam's mouth. Maybe they are so used to it that it doesn't phase them any more.

Politics: VIDEO: Tom Price explains the ObamaCare alternative Obama claims doesn't exist | Best of Cain

Why would the Democrats pass a Republican plan? Is that what they were elected to do? Do Republicans pass Democrat bills when they're in power?

Let's recap.

Obama has been blaming Republicans for the piece of shit law called Obamacare and say it's their fault it's a mess because they didn't help.

No debate was allowed before they passed the bill and no one was given time to read it.

Many Dems realized that they voted for a crappy law and they will not participate in Obamacare. Congress has a special website with better options than Americans.

Obama continues to blame Repubs for the disastrous roll out, as if they hired Michelle's old college buddy and threw hundreds of millions of dollars at this lame attempt.

Obama lied and lied when he claimed repeatedly that there was never any alternative plan offered up by the Repubs. That is the main subject of this thread. Yet another lie and libs like you totally focus on something else and refuse to comment on the big fat lie. There were 3 other plans submitted by Repubs and they were all ignored.

No, I don't expect a liberal to ever consider any plan that ensures people keep control over their own lives because that is not what the Dems are all about, but I am calling Obama up on his lie. I take it you have no comment.

 

[RightDown]

There were several other plans offered up for health care reform, but I am guessing none were oppressive enough to suit Obama's tyrannical tastes.

Most libs will look the other way at yet another lie from Bam's mouth. Maybe they are so used to it that it doesn't phase them any more.

Politics: VIDEO: Tom Price explains the ObamaCare alternative Obama claims doesn't exist | Best of Cain

Why would the Democrats pass a Republican plan? Is that what they were elected to do? Do Republicans pass Democrat bills when they're in power?

Let's recap.

Obama has been blaming Republicans for the piece of shit law called Obamacare and say it's their fault it's a mess because they didn't help.

No debate was allowed before they passed the bill and no one was given time to read it.

Many Dems realized that they voted for a crappy law and they will not participate in Obamacare. Congress has a special website with better options than Americans.

Obama continues to blame Repubs for the disastrous roll out, as if they hired Michelle's old college buddy and threw hundreds of millions of dollars at this lame attempt.

Obama lied and lied when he claimed repeatedly that there was never any alternative plan offered up by the Repubs. That is the main subject of this thread. Yet another lie and libs like you totally focus on something else and refuse to comment on the big fat lie. There were 3 other plans submitted by Repubs and they were all ignored.

No, I don't expect a liberal to ever consider any plan that ensures people keep control over their own lives because that is not what the Dems are all about, but I am calling Obama up on his lie. I take it you have no comment.

The ACA is a market-based plan. Isn't that what the republicans are all about? Private insurance companies will profit tremendously from this statute.

 

[Clementine]

Why would the Democrats pass a Republican plan? Is that what they were elected to do? Do Republicans pass Democrat bills when they're in power?

Let's recap.

Obama has been blaming Republicans for the piece of shit law called Obamacare and say it's their fault it's a mess because they didn't help.

No debate was allowed before they passed the bill and no one was given time to read it.

Many Dems realized that they voted for a crappy law and they will not participate in Obamacare. Congress has a special website with better options than Americans.

Obama continues to blame Repubs for the disastrous roll out, as if they hired Michelle's old college buddy and threw hundreds of millions of dollars at this lame attempt.

Obama lied and lied when he claimed repeatedly that there was never any alternative plan offered up by the Repubs. That is the main subject of this thread. Yet another lie and libs like you totally focus on something else and refuse to comment on the big fat lie. There were 3 other plans submitted by Repubs and they were all ignored.

No, I don't expect a liberal to ever consider any plan that ensures people keep control over their own lives because that is not what the Dems are all about, but I am calling Obama up on his lie. I take it you have no comment.

The ACA is a market-based plan. Isn't that what the republicans are all about? Private insurance companies will profit tremendously from this statute.

Government is controlling the market by telling them what they can sell, telling us what we can buy and then forcing us to buy it. There is no free market there. There is no choice for a large number of people. They are told they had one choice and the price is three times higher than what they were paying.

Obama doesn't give a shit that many will have no insurance and instead of feeling bad because his signature legislation priced insurance out of their reach, he will punish them with fines. Yea, liberals, that will teach people a lesson for not being able to afford something they need. That is so incredibly fucked up and yet liberals have a "so what?" attitude.

What will Obama's answer be to feed people. Force them to buy food and if they can't afford it, then fines or jail would be reasonable?

The Republicans would have allowed insurance companies to compete across state lines, something that hasn't allowed. By killing competition all these years, they made sure prices would rise. The auto insurance companies have been competing and they fall all over themselves trying to come up with the best deals for the best price. Why it is that politicians don't want to see the same with health insurers? How fucking stupid do you have to be to believe that Obamacare was designed to help people?

Now people are being forced into new plans, new doctors and the price tag went up so drastically for some that they are just plain screwed. A lot of people who were quite comfortable with what they had no longer have anything because it's just not in their budget anymore. How can the left be so uncaring about the millions who are now without because Obama and the Dems made these harmful changes? How can they say that 7 million before was a crisis and what will end up being way more than that is merely a glitch or unintended consequence? Why it is that they feel nothing for the middle class workers?

Obamacare, according to a number of experts on both sides, will likely deliver the final blow that kills middle class. Do you approve of this?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Canadians have a higher average lifespan because they don't have all the gang activity and other sick behavior libs participate in, here in America. Infant mortality rates are recorded differently in different countries, so can't be compared. America counts them all, some nations don't. Look it up.

Why, yes, it's those gangs. And they are counting them different.

Has nothing to do with the fact that 25% of Americans have either no access to medical care or inadequate insurance.

So how is it that Canada is a lot more liberal than the US, yet the US has higher mortalit rates because of "sick behavior libs participate in"?

 

[Seawytch]

There's NO real tort reform in the ACA for ONE reason: Filthy rich tort lawyers like John Edwards OWN the Dem party and Obama.

Trial lawyers could win bonanza in health care reform - CNN.com

I've talked to docs privately when working in their homes who tell me defensive medicine is a HUGE factor in the high cost of HC

Tort reform is a red herring. Health care costs are driven by other factors. Or do you really want to limit recovery to $250,000 for some poor bastard who has the wrong leg amputated by Dr. Frankenputz?

Trial lawyers and malpractice law suits are not the reason why health insurance is costly.

The Harvard researchers took a huge sample of 31,000 medical records, dating from the mid-1980s, and had them evaluated by practicing doctors and nurses, the professionals most likely to be sympathetic to the demands of the doctor's office and operating room. The records went through multiple rounds of evaluation, and a finding of negligence was made only if two doctors, working independently, separately reached that conclusion. Even with this conservative methodology, the study found that doctors were injuring one out of every 25 patients—and that only 4 percent of these injured patients sued. The medical malpractice myth.

That doesn't seem to be a pressing problem, does it?

Frivolous lawsuits are already shitcanned by directed verdicts and sanctions.

The 'trial lawyers are the problem' tact is false.

You don't understand... What docs tell me is that they run very expensive tests that they KNOW aren't required JUST for CYA. Multiply that times millions of patients and you have some SERIOUS money being wasted. It's not just about the folks that sue and win big settlements, it's about defensive measures docs and hospitals take to avoid those VERY expensive lawsuits, and the cost of those expensive tests just get passed on top the policy-holders... YOU!

If reasonable caps were allowed there would be less incentive for docs and hospitals to waste money on VERY expensive, unnecessary tests and CYA.

States have enacted the exact Tort Reform you are calling for. It has done NOTHING to healthcare costs.

New study: Tort reform has not reduced health care costs in Texas

Studies: Texas Tort Reform Has Had No Effect on Physician Supply, Lowering Costs

Ohio's tort reform law hasn't lowered health-care costs

 

[Seawytch]

wrong again, joey boy

In Canada, a move toward a private healthcare option - Los Angeles Times

Note the key word, option. Where are our options? Over 70% of Americans wanted a Public Option.

I'd be quite happy with a single-payer universal healthcare system that also allowed for people with the means to purchase more comprehensive supplemental plans. Let's do it!

got any proof of your 70% claim? of course not, because its a lie

Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option - CBS News

A clear majority of Americans -- 72 percent -- support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers, a new CBS News/New York Times poll finds.​

7 out of 10 Doctors recommend a Public Option too Fishy...

Poll Finds Most Doctors Support Public Option

 

[zeke]

Tort reform is a red herring. Health care costs are driven by other factors. Or do you really want to limit recovery to $250,000 for some poor bastard who has the wrong leg amputated by Dr. Frankenputz?

Trial lawyers and malpractice law suits are not the reason why health insurance is costly.

The Harvard researchers took a huge sample of 31,000 medical records, dating from the mid-1980s, and had them evaluated by practicing doctors and nurses, the professionals most likely to be sympathetic to the demands of the doctor's office and operating room. The records went through multiple rounds of evaluation, and a finding of negligence was made only if two doctors, working independently, separately reached that conclusion. Even with this conservative methodology, the study found that doctors were injuring one out of every 25 patients—and that only 4 percent of these injured patients sued. The medical malpractice myth.

That doesn't seem to be a pressing problem, does it?

Frivolous lawsuits are already shitcanned by directed verdicts and sanctions.

The 'trial lawyers are the problem' tact is false.

You don't understand... What docs tell me is that they run very expensive tests that they KNOW aren't required JUST for CYA. Multiply that times millions of patients and you have some SERIOUS money being wasted. It's not just about the folks that sue and win big settlements, it's about defensive measures docs and hospitals take to avoid those VERY expensive lawsuits, and the cost of those expensive tests just get passed on top the policy-holders... YOU!

If reasonable caps were allowed there would be less incentive for docs and hospitals to waste money on VERY expensive, unnecessary tests and CYA.

States have enacted the exact Tort Reform you are calling for. It has done NOTHING to healthcare costs.

New study: Tort reform has not reduced health care costs in Texas

Studies: Texas Tort Reform Has Had No Effect on Physician Supply, Lowering Costs

Ohio's tort reform law hasn't lowered health-care costs

Why, one of these days you will find out that the doctors OWN the health testing facility and are making big BIG bucks from the ordering of tests.

But you don't want to find that out do ya? That doesn't fit the fantasy very well.

 

[Redfish]

Note the key word, option. Where are our options? Over 70% of Americans wanted a Public Option.

I'd be quite happy with a single-payer universal healthcare system that also allowed for people with the means to purchase more comprehensive supplemental plans. Let's do it!

got any proof of your 70% claim? of course not, because its a lie

Poll: Most Back Public Health Care Option - CBS News

A clear majority of Americans -- 72 percent -- support a government-sponsored health care plan to compete with private insurers, a new CBS News/New York Times poll finds.​

7 out of 10 Doctors recommend a Public Option too Fishy...

Poll Finds Most Doctors Support Public Option

come on now, wytchey, that poll is from 2009 before anyone knew what a disaster this was going to be.

either post something current or admit that you were spinning once again.

 

[Redfish]

[

Canadians have a higher average lifespan because they don't have all the gang activity and other sick behavior libs participate in, here in America. Infant mortality rates are recorded differently in different countries, so can't be compared. America counts them all, some nations don't. Look it up.

Why, yes, it's those gangs. And they are counting them different.

Has nothing to do with the fact that 25% of Americans have either no access to medical care or inadequate insurance.

So how is it that Canada is a lot more liberal than the US, yet the US has higher mortalit rates because of "sick behavior libs participate in"?

that is a blatant lie. No one was denied healthcare in the USA before ACA---NO ONE. If you were uninsured it may have been a little more inconvenient--------but you got it and it was FREE. There was no healthcare crisis that mandated destroying the entire system and replacing it with something worse,.

 

[tap4154]

I'm sorry but you're spinning like a top. The ACA and the heritage foundation plan both mandate insurance coverage by individuals in the marketplace. Your distinction is puzzling.

What is the difference btn adequate coverage and comprehensive coverage? The ACA does not force anyone to buy insurance. For people that are poor, the ACA permits the purchase of catastrophic coverage only to avoid the penalty.

So just what are you talking about?

The ACA is forcing everyone to have a policy which includes the coverage THEY decided we need. This drives the costs WAY up for folks like me who don't need maternity, pediatric dental, mental health, and sex change coverage.

Libs here don't seem to know ANY facts about the ACA

And you don't seem to know anything about life. I buy autio insurance to protect myself if I crash into somebody or if somebody crashes into me. You purchase health insurance because you cannot predict the future. You could be absolutely fine today and lying in some emergency room on life support tomorrow.
I had a friend who thought like you.
"I don't need health care. I am fit and trim and in good health, so why would I want a health care plan?"
Then one day a drunk crashed into him at a stop sign. He will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair and the bottom line is that because he had no insurance, everyone of us will pay for his irresponsibility.
So don't give us that "I don't need health insurance" bullshit. Unless you can predict the future and be correct 100% of the time you have no clue about whether you will need health insurance or not. You could be the one hit by the drunk. You could be the innocent person shot and severely wounded in a street mugging or failed hold-up attempt. You could be the person who develops an incurable cancer. You could be the carrier of a gene that will give you a heart attack in the next few years. And on and on and on. When you can predict the future with absolute certainty get back to us about not needing insurance.

Can ANY liberals here read and comprehend???

I didn't say I don't need HC insurance. I said I HAVE a good and affordable catastrophic plan that covers everything after $5K deductible, with no cap or copays, and the ACA made it ILLEGAL. Next year, becuse of the ACA mandated coverage, which is coverage I DON'T NEED OR WANT (like maternity and pediatric dental) my premium doubled and ADDED a 40% copay on EVERYTHING.

Please read slowly... my old plan, and what next year will be ONLY BECAUSE of ACA mandates:

 

[Redfish]

The ACA is forcing everyone to have a policy which includes the coverage THEY decided we need. This drives the costs WAY up for folks like me who don't need maternity, pediatric dental, mental health, and sex change coverage.

Libs here don't seem to know ANY facts about the ACA

And you don't seem to know anything about life. I buy autio insurance to protect myself if I crash into somebody or if somebody crashes into me. You purchase health insurance because you cannot predict the future. You could be absolutely fine today and lying in some emergency room on life support tomorrow.
I had a friend who thought like you.
"I don't need health care. I am fit and trim and in good health, so why would I want a health care plan?"
Then one day a drunk crashed into him at a stop sign. He will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair and the bottom line is that because he had no insurance, everyone of us will pay for his irresponsibility.
So don't give us that "I don't need health insurance" bullshit. Unless you can predict the future and be correct 100% of the time you have no clue about whether you will need health insurance or not. You could be the one hit by the drunk. You could be the innocent person shot and severely wounded in a street mugging or failed hold-up attempt. You could be the person who develops an incurable cancer. You could be the carrier of a gene that will give you a heart attack in the next few years. And on and on and on. When you can predict the future with absolute certainty get back to us about not needing insurance.

Can ANY liberals here read and comprehend???

I didn't say I don't need HC insurance. I said I HAVE a good and affordable catastrophic plan that covers everything after $5K deductible, with no cap or copays, and the ACA made it ILLEGAL. Next year, becuse of the ACA mandated coverage, which is coverage I DON'T NEED OR WANT (like maternity and pediatric dental) my premium doubled and ADDED a 40% copay on EVERYTHING.

Please read slowly... my old plan, and what next year will be ONLY BECAUSE of ACA mandates:

dem/libs are not to be confused by the facts, they believe in obama and obamacare and will support it until it puts them in their graves.

liberalism is a mental disease, there is no other explanation.

 

[Redfish]

OH, I forgot----------------ITS BUSH'S FAULT

 

[JoeB131]

[

that is a blatant lie. No one was denied healthcare in the USA before ACA---NO ONE. If you were uninsured it may have been a little more inconvenient--------but you got it and it was FREE. There was no healthcare crisis that mandated destroying the entire system and replacing it with something worse,.

Bullshit. YOu obviously don't know what you are talking about.

62% of bankruptcies are due to medical issues.

that's more than a "little inconvience", guy. That's an actual crisis.

 

[JoeB131]

[

dem/libs are not to be confused by the facts, they believe in obama and obamacare and will support it until it puts them in their graves.

liberalism is a mental disease, there is no other explanation.

You mean because you were too lazy to shop around, you are going to accept what your current provider says?

 

[tap4154]

And you don't seem to know anything about life. I buy autio insurance to protect myself if I crash into somebody or if somebody crashes into me. You purchase health insurance because you cannot predict the future. You could be absolutely fine today and lying in some emergency room on life support tomorrow.
I had a friend who thought like you.
"I don't need health care. I am fit and trim and in good health, so why would I want a health care plan?"
Then one day a drunk crashed into him at a stop sign. He will spend the rest of his life in a wheel chair and the bottom line is that because he had no insurance, everyone of us will pay for his irresponsibility.
So don't give us that "I don't need health insurance" bullshit. Unless you can predict the future and be correct 100% of the time you have no clue about whether you will need health insurance or not. You could be the one hit by the drunk. You could be the innocent person shot and severely wounded in a street mugging or failed hold-up attempt. You could be the person who develops an incurable cancer. You could be the carrier of a gene that will give you a heart attack in the next few years. And on and on and on. When you can predict the future with absolute certainty get back to us about not needing insurance.

Can ANY liberals here read and comprehend???

I didn't say I don't need HC insurance. I said I HAVE a good and affordable catastrophic plan that covers everything after $5K deductible, with no cap or copays, and the ACA made it ILLEGAL. Next year, becuse of the ACA mandated coverage, which is coverage I DON'T NEED OR WANT (like maternity and pediatric dental) my premium doubled and ADDED a 40% copay on EVERYTHING.

Please read slowly... my old plan, and what next year will be ONLY BECAUSE of ACA mandates:

dem/libs are not to be confused by the facts, they believe in obama and obamacare and will support it until it puts them in their graves.

liberalism is a mental disease, there is no other explanation.

Would love to hear one of these mouth-breathing lib morons explain to me how doubling my premium and adding a 40% copay, when there's been NO change in my health to cause it, is a good thing.

 

[Dragonlady]

Would love to hear one of these mouth-breathing lib morons explain to me how doubling my premium and adding a 40% copay, when there's been NO change in my health to cause it, is a good thing.

Would love to see what other options are available to you for plans comparable to the one you had and the costs involved. My guess is that you can get a comparable plan for a lot less than the one that was cancelled.

$5,000 deductible is not great. No matter what, if you get sick, the first $5,000 is out of your pocket. a 40% co-pay would, in the long run be cheaper than a $5,000 deductible.