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Buzz off, troll.Haha, so there ya go. Would you then say that the regulations that don’t allow sales to minors is unconstitutional?I agree, to me the regulations are justified. But to those who believe that gun regulations are unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment I present this argument. I’m guessing you support the regulation of gun sales to minors even though it’s not stated in the constitution, so you’d also have to be open to other regulations that are made using the same legal process. Agreed?The biggest problem with selling to minors is the obligations of a contract. Sales can be rescinded if minors have no legal capacity to contract. Furthermore, that could add to the liability of the seller if he sells to a minor who misuses the firearm and harms someone else. An adult is presumed to know how to use a firearm safely.I’m not arguing against current gun laws... I’m arguing against those who call those laws unconstitutional because they infringe on our right to bare arms. I started the convo with bripat9643 and Rustic both of whom called gun laws unconstitutional and then refused to answer my question about age and have since ran away.If the age of majority was 12 you might have an argument but it's not and it has never been
We already have plenty of common sense gun laws. If you disagree then tell me which of the thousands of federal and/or state gun laws that are currently on the books aren't common sense.
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Sales to minors were perfectly legal until only a few decades ago.
And you of course are correct.I’m not arguing against current gun laws... I’m arguing against those who call those laws unconstitutional because they infringe on our right to bare arms. I started the convo with bripat9643 and Rustic both of whom called gun laws unconstitutional and then refused to answer my question about age and have since ran away.Many people call gun control regulations unconstitutional because it is infringing on our god given right to protect ourselves. They say that the constitution is there to define exactly what the government is allowed to do and anything that goes beyond that scope is unconstitutional.Thank you for being the first to give a direct answer and a reference. The 26th does point out a voting age and covers an Americans right to vote. It doesn’t say anything about the second amendment and our legal right to bare arms. Federal legislatures and states have further defined gun regulations according to what they think is right but many hardliners consider all those rules unconstitutional which is why I’m asking their thoughts about laws against selling guns to 12 year olds.A 12 year old has never been considered an adult.
The Constitution in the 26th amendment states the age of 18 must be attained before one can participate in the vote.
A 12 year old has no legal standing as he is still under the guardianship of his parents
it is the age where one can participate in the government.
It just doesn't seem like a serious question.
You know that no one here has ever said anything about a 12 year old buying a firearm.
the laws of the states are in consensus that no one under 18 may purchase any firearm and not one pro second amendment poster here has ever said that is unconstitutional
I realize selling guns to 12 year olds isn’t an issue that people have brought up. That’s because it is common sense and both sides agree that 12 year olds should not be able to go buy guns. But when using the constitutional argument you don’t see an age defined like you do with voting age. The age requirements for gun purchasing are state and external laws. The same type of laws that gun advocates call unconstitutional.
I bring up the subject to highlight the law making process and explore what we think is acceptable and what we think is illegal. We are either a republic where states are allowed to make laws to keep the order and benefit the welfare of their people or we have been an unconstitutional republic for many many years.
I’m making the argument that if you are going to point to the constitution to say that gun rights shall not be infringed making all gun control measures illegal then you’d have to agree that by the constitution 12 year olds should be able to go buy guns with no questions asked. Otherwise you’d have to agree that states and lawmakers have the right to legislate regulations like a minimum age of purchase, background checks, auto bans etc.
If the age of majority was 12 you might have an argument but it's not and it has never been
We already have plenty of common sense gun laws. If you disagree then tell me which of the thousands of federal and/or state gun laws that are currently on the books aren't common sense.
It is about the security of a free State not natural rights, or it would say so in the first clause, not the second clause.Wrong.The 2nd Amendment gives all citizens the right to"bear arms".
The 2nd Amendment affirms a right that already exists naturally.
Unconstitutional? I guess so.Haha, so there ya go. Would you then say that the regulations that don’t allow sales to minors is unconstitutional?I agree, to me the regulations are justified. But to those who believe that gun regulations are unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment I present this argument. I’m guessing you support the regulation of gun sales to minors even though it’s not stated in the constitution, so you’d also have to be open to other regulations that are made using the same legal process. Agreed?The biggest problem with selling to minors is the obligations of a contract. Sales can be rescinded if minors have no legal capacity to contract. Furthermore, that could add to the liability of the seller if he sells to a minor who misuses the firearm and harms someone else. An adult is presumed to know how to use a firearm safely.I’m not arguing against current gun laws... I’m arguing against those who call those laws unconstitutional because they infringe on our right to bare arms. I started the convo with bripat9643 and Rustic both of whom called gun laws unconstitutional and then refused to answer my question about age and have since ran away.If the age of majority was 12 you might have an argument but it's not and it has never been
We already have plenty of common sense gun laws. If you disagree then tell me which of the thousands of federal and/or state gun laws that are currently on the books aren't common sense.
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Sales to minors were perfectly legal until only a few decades ago.
anyone who appeals to ignorance of the first clause of our Second Amendment clearly has no clue and no Cause.Anybody who says that 2nd Amendment is only about the security of a free state is a fucking idiot who should be ignored.
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If you can’t hang with a constitutional process discussion then don’t keep chiming in. Especially if you are going to keep putting words in my mouth. I never said cart blanch... I know that gives you something to argue against but I never said that. You’re creating a strawman argument. Low IQ tactic. Do better.Buzz off, troll.Haha, so there ya go. Would you then say that the regulations that don’t allow sales to minors is unconstitutional?I agree, to me the regulations are justified. But to those who believe that gun regulations are unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment I present this argument. I’m guessing you support the regulation of gun sales to minors even though it’s not stated in the constitution, so you’d also have to be open to other regulations that are made using the same legal process. Agreed?The biggest problem with selling to minors is the obligations of a contract. Sales can be rescinded if minors have no legal capacity to contract. Furthermore, that could add to the liability of the seller if he sells to a minor who misuses the firearm and harms someone else. An adult is presumed to know how to use a firearm safely.I’m not arguing against current gun laws... I’m arguing against those who call those laws unconstitutional because they infringe on our right to bare arms. I started the convo with bripat9643 and Rustic both of whom called gun laws unconstitutional and then refused to answer my question about age and have since ran away.
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Sales to minors were perfectly legal until only a few decades ago.
The issue is not worth discussing, especially in the context of gun control. Age restrictions don't give Stalinist like you carte blanch to impose whatever regulations you like. What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?
Oh I’ve given up on trying to change the hearts and minds of any hardliner. I do appreciate your efforts to engage in a straight forward debate though. Most others just try and change the subject, resort to insults or just run away.Unconstitutional? I guess so.Haha, so there ya go. Would you then say that the regulations that don’t allow sales to minors is unconstitutional?I agree, to me the regulations are justified. But to those who believe that gun regulations are unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment I present this argument. I’m guessing you support the regulation of gun sales to minors even though it’s not stated in the constitution, so you’d also have to be open to other regulations that are made using the same legal process. Agreed?The biggest problem with selling to minors is the obligations of a contract. Sales can be rescinded if minors have no legal capacity to contract. Furthermore, that could add to the liability of the seller if he sells to a minor who misuses the firearm and harms someone else. An adult is presumed to know how to use a firearm safely.I’m not arguing against current gun laws... I’m arguing against those who call those laws unconstitutional because they infringe on our right to bare arms. I started the convo with bripat9643 and Rustic both of whom called gun laws unconstitutional and then refused to answer my question about age and have since ran away.
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Sales to minors were perfectly legal until only a few decades ago.
Careful what you wish for. We're not going to be shamed out of calling all the bullshit unconstitutional just because you THINK you have some sort of good argument with sales to minors.
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The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
You don’t think a kid has the right to life?True and that is specifically laid out in the constitution for voting rights. We also have the right to life and liberty. I hear the life right used for the unborn all the time. And certainly you agree that babies and children are provided constitutional rights... so the right to bare arms is considered by many as a god given right. Nowhere in the constitution does it say adult or set a minimum age to have this right. These are state laws that set these requirements. Are those laws legit or unconstitutional. You tell meWhere does the constitution talk about the age of majority?If the age of majority was 12 you might have an argument but it's not and it has never been
We already have plenty of common sense gun laws. If you disagree then tell me which of the thousands of federal and/or state gun laws that are currently on the books aren't common sense.
You have to be 18 to vote so to be considered an adult and responsible enough to vote you must be 18
They are provided protections under the law but they have no rights
I can ask why a 4 year old can’t buy a gun, it is a god given right so if it is. It going to be allowed by law it is legit to ask why and how that law came to be. Regarding the draft, there have been several court cases regarding the process and constitutionality of the draft. That’s how our system works. Law makers make laws, if people think they go against the constitution they are taken up in the Supreme Court and ruled upon.You don’t think a kid has the right to life?True and that is specifically laid out in the constitution for voting rights. We also have the right to life and liberty. I hear the life right used for the unborn all the time. And certainly you agree that babies and children are provided constitutional rights... so the right to bare arms is considered by many as a god given right. Nowhere in the constitution does it say adult or set a minimum age to have this right. These are state laws that set these requirements. Are those laws legit or unconstitutional. You tell meWhere does the constitution talk about the age of majority?
You have to be 18 to vote so to be considered an adult and responsible enough to vote you must be 18
They are provided protections under the law but they have no rights
As i said they have protections under the law.
This whole why can't 12 year olds buy guns thing is a nonissue
why not ask if a 4 year old can buy a gun or why can't a 10 year old be drafted
I can ask why a 4 year old can’t buy a gun, it is a god given right so if it is. It going to be allowed by law it is legit to ask why and how that law came to be. Regarding the draft, there have been several court cases regarding the process and constitutionality of the draft. That’s how our system works. Law makers make laws, if people think they go against the constitution they are taken up in the Supreme Court and ruled upon.You don’t think a kid has the right to life?True and that is specifically laid out in the constitution for voting rights. We also have the right to life and liberty. I hear the life right used for the unborn all the time. And certainly you agree that babies and children are provided constitutional rights... so the right to bare arms is considered by many as a god given right. Nowhere in the constitution does it say adult or set a minimum age to have this right. These are state laws that set these requirements. Are those laws legit or unconstitutional. You tell meYou have to be 18 to vote so to be considered an adult and responsible enough to vote you must be 18
They are provided protections under the law but they have no rights
As i said they have protections under the law.
This whole why can't 12 year olds buy guns thing is a nonissue
why not ask if a 4 year old can buy a gun or why can't a 10 year old be drafted
But the heart of this conversation isnt about common sense or realism about who should have a gun, it’s about process and constitutionality. You can say it’s silly to consider selling a gun to a 4 or 12 year old. Those are extreme examples. What about an emancipated 16 year old or 17 year old father who wants to defend his family? These are relevant questions and there should be a law define what is allowed.
The question goes to what is defined in our laws and what the proper process is to regulate our rights. If you’ve been reading this thread you’ve seen a few already say that it is unconstitutional to restrict selling guns to 12 year olds. That’s how deep some of these people go.
The 2nd Amendment gives all citizens the right to"bear arms".
definition of arms
synonyms: weapons (of war), weaponry, firearms, guns, ordnance, cannon, artillery, armaments, munitions, instruments of war, war machines, military supplies, materiel
"arms and ammunition"
The states wanted to have the capability of having militias as a check on the Federal government.
Arms means all weapons of war the Federal government can have.
That is not happening in the 21st century. Since the 2nd amendment was written the majority of arms have been banned from possession by the citizens. We have restricted what citizens cannot have arms; felons.
Red tag laws, banning certain semi-automatic guns and background checks to own a gun is small time compared to the laws already on the books banning arms to be owned by citizens.
