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The 1930's Again?

Annie

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http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=N2RlNjNjZWNlOTQzNTVjMTRjMWY4MzRkMDQzYmY5ZjM=

The Thirties All Over Again?
Nobody knows how this will proceed.

By Michael Ledeen

Certainly there is lots of bad news, most of which confirms what we already knew: The Western world hates Israel; the taboo on anti-Semitism is off; the Western world has been P.C.’ed to the edge of death; there is no stomach for fighting the war against Islamic fascism.

Sounds like the Thirties to me.

I always have my doubts about “trends.” The history of 20th-century America is largely about a country that never prepared for war, and was always compelled — by our enemies — to conduct enormous crusades. It was seemingly all or nothing for us. The history of America in war, like that of most others, is largely about making enormous blunders at the beginning, and then sorting it out. Our great strength is not so much avoiding error, but the ability to recover quickly, change tactics and even strategy, and get it done. I think that applies to the three world wars in the last century.

The scary thing about our current jam is that 9/11 was supposed to have been the wakeup call, but we are again asleep. For this I blame our leaders — both the administration and the Dems. The administration is constitutionally unable to explain itself, and the Dems have no qualms about losing all present battles so long as they can elect their candidates and bring down this president.

The greatest failure of our leaders, with rare exceptions, is their refusal to see the war plain, which means Iran and Syria (might as well call them “Syran,” since they operate in tandem, with Tehran pushing most of the buttons). It was never possible to “win in Iraq” so long as we insisted on fighting in Iraq alone. You can not win a regional war by playing defense in one country. It was, and remains, a sucker’s game. Syran pays no price at all for killing our kids and our allies in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now in Gaza and Lebanon/Israel.

Syran reasonably concluded that there was no price to pay for killing us, and so they predictably expanded the scope of the war. Our leaders do not see this whole; they see each component as a separate issue.
They see that Hezbollah is an Iranian entity. They see Iranian Revolutionary Guards officers at work in Lebanon and Iraq. They know the best weapons in the war come through Syran and in many cases are manufactured by Syran. Any logical person has to conclude that you cannot win this war without defeating Syran.

But not a single voice comes from the White House to explain this, let alone to craft a strategy to accomplish it. The best foreign-policy speech in a long time — a lucid analysis of the threat of Islamic fascism and several excellent suggestions of how to combat it — was made two weeks ago by Senator Santorum, and yet his relatively modest bill to support freedom for the Iranian people has been vigorously contested and systematically blocked by Secretary of State Rice and Senator Richard Lugar.

Meanwhile, a collection of frauds, writing in places like Rolling Stone, Vanity Fair, The New Yorker, and Mother Jones, continuously recycles a story saying that a neocon (code for “Jewish”) conspiracy duped Bush into going to war in Iraq, and is now arranging the invasion of Iran. Documented lies, like those peddled by Joe Wilson to New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, are treated as reliable. Fantasies about American armed forces operating covertly in Iran, like those written by Seymour Hirsh, get taken seriously. And people like me are accused of masterminding the whole thing, even though I oppose a military campaign against Iran.

No one can doubt that this is a willful disinformation campaign, aimed at paralyzing and then destroying the president. I do not think people in the White House have ever fully appreciated their peril. I think that lack of understanding goes hand-in-hand with the failure in strategic vision that underlies our unwillingness to fight the regional war that is being waged against us.

It is the Thirties again. Many of the statements above apply to Franklin Roosevelt’s first two administrations, and to the political atmosphere of those dreadful years. Then, too, the mounting power of what became the Axis was ignored. As my father often reminded me, a few months before Pearl Harbor, at a time when Nazi armies were long since on the march, the draft passed by a single vote. Apologists for Hitler and Mussolini were legion, and some of our leading intellectuals were saying that American democratic capitalism was a failure, and we would do well to emulate the European totalitarians.



So I don’t see this moment as something unique, the result of some inner rot, or a moment on a greased skid leading to the abyss. It’s one of the many things we are. But we are many things, and we are not like the Europeans, many of whom are reviving their anti-Semitic fantasies in an effort to cope with their weakness and irrelevance.



I think, as I recently wrote, that we have been given an extraordinary opportunity by our enemies. I am disturbed at the lack of appropriate response, which in my opinion involves taking the war to Syran, mostly by political means. About a week ago a surprising number of Arab leaders said as much. I took it as a public plea to Washington to act vigorously, and an expression of the unspoken assumption that Israel would quickly destroy Hezbollah. Neither has happened, and so they are once again appeasing their own worst enemies, as are various Iraqi officials.

What did you expect? They have Syran on their borders, and we have not demonstrated the capacity to win the war.

Perhaps that will change without yet another Pearl Harbor. It looks to me like the American people would support it. I don’t yet see the necessary vision and will from our leaders.
 

theHawk

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Lets raise taxes and send off more money to Israel. We wouldn't want to be called Nazis now would we?



Assuming you agree with this article, shame on you Kath, falling for this fear tactic - that were all becoming Nazis ready to throw all the Jews into ovens.

This is a war between Zionist Jews and Islam. Personally I hope the Jews win but is it worth my blood to fight for them? Are you ready to send your brothers and sons to die for Israel?
 

dilloduck

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theHawk said:
Lets raise taxes and send off more money to Israel. We wouldn't want to be called Nazis now would we?



Assuming you agree with this article, shame on you Kath, falling for this fear tactic - that were all becoming Nazis ready to throw all the Jews into ovens.

This is a war between Zionist Jews and Islam. Personally I hope the Jews win but is it worth my blood to fight for them? Are you ready to send your brothers and sons to die for Israel?

It's a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" deal. Sure Israel can take what we have already given them and kick some ass but don't forget the Hizbullys want to kill Americans too and they probably have been in Iraq. Killing some East Syrian Hizbullys woudl serve a number of purposes.
 

Hobbit

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I, personally, like Israel and will support them as long as they've got barbarians at their gates. However, if you really think that a campaign to support a defensive action by a sovreign nation isn't worth our effort, remember this, the Soviets were one of the greatest evils ever stared down in the history of the planet. They still helped us take down the Nazis, though, and I think we can all agree that Islamofacism and regular facism are both more evil than Israel or the Soviets.
 

dilloduck

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Hobbit said:
I, personally, like Israel and will support them as long as they've got barbarians at their gates. However, if you really think that a campaign to support a defensive action by a sovreign nation isn't worth our effort, remember this, the Soviets were one of the greatest evils ever stared down in the history of the planet. They still helped us take down the Nazis, though, and I think we can all agree that Islamofacism and regular facism are both more evil than Israel or the Soviets.

Excellent point, Hobbit. The commies definately took more casualties than ANYONE in WWII.
 

BaronVonBigmeat

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Sounds like the Thirties to me.

Oooohhh...wow man, that's really deep...I've never heard an Israel-shill use that one before. :rolleyes:

Neocons ALWAYS think a conflict is the 1930's again. A neocon could have a vocal disagreement with his neighbor about letting his dog poop on his lawn, and it would be the 1930's all over again.

I always have my doubts about “trends.” The history of 20th-century America is largely about a country that never prepared for war, and was always compelled — by our enemies — to conduct enormous crusades. It was seemingly all or nothing for us.

Bull crap. The history of american warfare, from the civil war onward, is of power hungry politicians doing their damnedest to meddle overseas and get us into war (usually by putting an american boat in harm's way).

Meanwhile, a collection of frauds, writing in places like Rolling Stone, Vanity Fair, The New Yorker, and Mother Jones, continuously recycles a story saying that a neocon (code for “Jewish”) conspiracy duped Bush into going to war in Iraq, and is now arranging the invasion of Iran.

Okay everyone...those who are playing the Neocon drinking game, take a shot.

*gulp*

For those who haven't heard of it, it goes like this. Every time a jewish neocon smears his opponents with antisemitism because they don't support Israel, you take a shot. If they smear their opponents because of neocon skullduggery which is actually true--laying the groundwork for an invasion of Iran, for example--you take a double shot.
 

dilloduck

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BaronVonBigmeat said:
Oooohhh...wow man, that's really deep...I've never heard an Israel-shill use that one before. :rolleyes:

Neocons ALWAYS think a conflict is the 1930's again. A neocon could have a vocal disagreement with his neighbor about letting his dog poop on his lawn, and it would be the 1930's all over again.



Bull crap. The history of american warfare, from the civil war onward, is of power hungry politicians doing their damnedest to meddle overseas and get us into war (usually by putting an american boat in harm's way).



Okay everyone...those who are playing the Neocon drinking game, take a shot.

*gulp*

For those who haven't heard of it, it goes like this. Every time a jewish neocon smears his opponents with antisemitism because they don't support Israel, you take a shot. If they smear their opponents because of neocon skullduggery which is actually true--laying the groundwork for an invasion of Iran, for example--you take a double shot.

You think Bush will just bypass Syria?
 

PsuedoGhost

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dilloduck said:
You think Bush will just bypass Syria?

I think Bush will sit with his thumb up his ass for the rest of his presidency. As it is, his administration is more of a liability than an asset for the Republicans.
 

Avatar4321

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PsuedoGhost said:
I think Bush will sit with his thumb up his ass for the rest of his presidency. As it is, his administration is more of a liability than an asset for the Republicans.

Unfortunately I am afraid you might be right. This is is a time we should be being bold by cutting off the dragon by the head and taking out Iran.

Of course, we cant do this as long the UN has so much control over us. So I think its about time we cut the dead weight, leave the UN as the paper tiger it is, and do what needs to be done to defeat this enemy.

And btw who is Michael Ledeen and is he willing to run for President?
 
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Annie

Annie

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Avatar4321 said:
Unfortunately I am afraid you might be right. This is is a time we should be being bold by cutting off the dragon by the head and taking out Iran.

Of course, we cant do this as long the UN has so much control over us. So I think its about time we cut the dead weight, leave the UN as the paper tiger it is, and do what needs to be done to defeat this enemy.

And btw who is Michael Ledeen and is he willing to run for President?

I agree with you on Bush missing opportunity after opportunity, I wonder if he isn't partly Palestinian? I hope we're wrong and Dillo is correct, he expressed optimism that Bush and Condi are working on something-if so, they have me fooled.

I do wonder about the isolationists , denying the anti-semitism that is convulsing the Middle East and rising rapidly in violence in Europe, Australia, Indonesia (where there are relatively no jews, but plenty of Muslims), and demonstrably here in the US.

I doubt Baron's is religious based, he's totally a libertarian thus his argument is consistent, even if I don't agree. He also thinks that we WWI and WWII were manipulated US involvement for no purpose other than expanding power of some elites. (I agree that there is always that element, but as a causative factor, I disagree).

As for Ledeen:

http://www.benadorassociates.com/ledeen.php
Michael A. Ledeen

Dr. Michael A. Ledeen, who holds the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C., is one of the world's leading authorities on intelligence, contemporary history and international affairs. In a few years in government, he carried out some of the most sensitive and dangerous missions in recent American history. He has been profiled in the New York Times, and was the subject of a front-page article and a lead editorial in the Wall Street Journal. A profile of him concluded that "a portrait emerges of a man with an intense knowledge of 20th-century history, a deep commitment to democracy, and a willingness to be adventurous. This is a man who has helped shape American foreign policy at its highest levels."

As Ted Koppel puts it, "Michael Ledeen is a Renaissance man...in the tradition of Machiavelli."

Formerly Rome correspondent for the New Republic, the founding editor of the Washington Quarterly, and Contributing Editor of National Review Online, he is a regular contributor to the Wall Street Journal, The International Economy, the American Spectator, the New York Sun, and National Review, an adviser to multinational corporations in Europe, Africa and the United States, and a corporate director in America and Africa. He also writes about contract bridge for the Wall Street Journal and the New York Sun.

Dr. Ledeen is a celebrated scholar and lecturer. He holds a Ph.D. in History and Philosophy from the University of Wisconsin, and has been the recipient of many awards and research grants. His 15 books include Grave New World, which predicted the crisis of the Soviet Empire five years before it occurred, Machiavelli on Modern Leadership, (1999, St. Martin's Press), Tocqueville on American Character; Why Tocqueville's Brilliant Exploration of the American Spirit is as Vital and Important Today as it was nearly Two Hundred Years Ago (St. Martin's Press, 2000) and, most recently, his highly successful The War Against the Terror Masters; How it Happened. Where We Are Now. How We Will Win (St. Martin's Press, 2002). He is currently writing a book on Naples, Italy.

His essays and books have been reprinted in dozens of languages around the world. Dr. Ledeen lectures on War & Peace, Terrorism, the Middle East, and American Foreign Policy.
 

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