The 1890 Incident at Wounded Knee Was No "Massacre"

Women and children were killed, they were unarmed.
One, I guess you didn't bother to read Father Craft's deposition or any of the links. Yes, many women and children were killed, mainly because the warriors mingled among them, fired from among them, and sometimes fired at them because they were between the warriors and the soldiers and the warriors did not care but fired anyway.

Two, as was typical in fights with Indians, some of the women and young teen/tween boys armed themselves and either fired guns at soldiers or fired arrows and/or threw tomahawks at soldiers. In some cases, Indian women and "children" would finish off a wounded soldier with a knife, tomahawk, or gun when the soldier was lying on the ground, unable to flee, and separated from other soldiers.

Three, it should be pointed out that the soldiers at Wounded Knee had no idea they would be in a battle that day. They were there merely to ensure that the Indians were disarmed. Some soldiers and civilians had seen rifles among the Indians in the days leading up to the incident, and some Indians had been trying to provoke a battle with the soldiers, with one medicine man (Yellow Bird) telling his fellow Indians that the soldiers' bullets could not harm them.

To perform the weapons search, the 470 soldiers at Wounded Knee were arranged to form three sides of an open square. Obviously, they would not have used this formation if they had expected trouble, since they would be firing into each other if a fight erupted. This is a clear indication that Col. Forsyth, the Army commander at the scene, intended to disarm the Indians peacefully.

Luckily, only a few soldiers were hit with friendly fire because the fighting was close-in combat at first, and so many of the soldiers on the perimeter of the formation held their fire.
 
One, I guess you didn't bother to read Father Craft's deposition or any of the links. Yes, many women and children were killed, mainly because the warriors mingled among them, fired from among them, and sometimes fired at them because they were between the warriors and the soldiers and the warriors did not care but fired anyway.

Two, as was typical in fights with Indians, some of the women and young teen/tween boys armed themselves and either fired guns at soldiers or fired arrows and/or threw tomahawks at soldiers. In some cases, Indian women and "children" would finish off a wounded soldier with a knife, tomahawk, or gun when the soldier was lying on the ground, unable to flee, and separated from other soldiers.

Three, it should be pointed out that the soldiers at Wounded Knee had no idea they would be in a battle that day. They were there merely to ensure that the Indians were disarmed. Some soldiers and civilians had seen rifles among the Indians in the days leading up to the incident, and some Indians had been trying to provoke a battle with the soldiers, with one medicine man (Yellow Bird) telling his fellow Indians that the soldiers' bullets could not harm them.

To perform the weapons search, the 470 soldiers at Wounded Knee were arranged to form three sides of an open square. Obviously, they would not have used this formation if they had expected trouble, since they would be firing into each other if a fight erupted. This is a clear indication that Col. Forsyth, the Army commander at the scene, intended to disarm the Indians peacefully.

Luckily, only a few soldiers were hit with friendly fire because the fighting was close-in combat at first, and so many of the soldiers on the perimeter of the formation held their fire.
I would not trust a missionary they align themselves with any despot or despotic government as they do their so-called Christian values of forced conversion..


All because of a Ghost Dance.
Conclusion. The US government never outlawed the Ghost Dance, as they had the Sun Dance in the 1880s, but the Bureau of Indian Affairs tried, unsuccessfully, to have it banned.

Ghost Dance - World History Encyclopedia


The Sun Dance was banned by the American and Canadian governments when missionaries wanted to introduce Native American communities to Christianity and break down old customs. The medicine men who guided the Sun Dancers were seen to be a threat. The Sun Dance was banned in 1883 and the ban was repealed in 1934.May 21, 2024

Sun Dance Ceremony, Practices & Ban - Study.com

 
I would not trust a missionary they align themselves with any despot or despotic government as they do their so-called Christian values of forced conversion.

Wow, what a bigoted attitude.

And you didn't even read the OP, did you? Father Craft was what people used to call an "Indian lover." He was beloved by the Indians in the area. He spoke two Indian languages fluently. He was one of the Indians' truest friends. He constantly berated the Bureau of Indian Affairs for not treating the Indians better and constantly lobbied Congress for more Indian aid.

Yet, although Father Craft blamed local settlers and BIA agents for the unrest among the Indians that preceded the incident, he was honest enough to admit that the Indians fired first and that many of the soldiers actually held their fire until the Indians had fired several shots. He also admitted that the Indians who started the fighting were fanatical and dishonorable.

All because of a Ghost Dance.
[SNIP]
You are just determined to keep your blinders on, aren't you? Would it surprise to learn that part of the lyrics of the Ghost Dance that the Indians were doing at Wounded Knee called for the killing of white people, and that the settlers were aware of this?

Gee, if you found out that a large group of Muslim men in a local mosque were chanting a prayer that called for blowing up local buildings owned by "infidels," would you be just a little bit worried?

And, if you'd bothered to read any of the links, you'd know that a nutjob "medicine man" was going around telling the Indian males that the soldiers' bullets would not harm them, and that during the search for weapons he was mocking the warriors for not resisting and urging them to fight.
 
One of the saddest and most misleading modern revisions of history involves the 1890 incident at Wounded Knee, South Dakota, between the 7th Cavalry and some 200 Indians. Far from being a "massacre," Wounded Knee was a battle in which in the Indians fired first.

If you don't believe any of the accounts of the soldiers and officers who were there, perhaps you will believe the account of Father Francis Craft, who was there serving as an interpreter and who witnessed the entire event.

In the parlance of the day, Father Francis Craft was an "Indian lover." He served as a missionary among the Indians for years. As mentioned, he witnessed the incident because he was there serving as an interpreter. Although his sympathies were strongly with the Indians, so much so that he publicly wished to be buried among them, he made it clear that the Indians started the fighting at Wounded Knee, and he exonerated the soldiers. I will first quote from a letter he wrote that was published in newspapers soon after the battle, and then I will quote from his deposition.

Letter:


I authorize you to contradict for me in my name, through the press, the reports in circulation that blame the army for the sad tragedy at Wounded Knee creek. Those reports do grave injustice to our soldiers, and are instigated by those averse to an honorable settlement to the present trouble, and hostile to the decree of every true friend of the Indian, that they be permanently transferred from the charge of the Indian bureau to the war department. It is only by such a transfer that the Indians can expect just treatment. The whole trouble originated through interested whites [some local settlers and Bureau of Indian Affairs personnel], who had gone about most industriously and misrepresented the army and its movements upon all the agencies [Indian reservations]. The Indians, were in consequence alarmed and suspicious. They had been led to believe that the true aim of the military was their extermination. The troops acted with greatest kindness and prudence. In the Wounded Knee fight the Indians fired first. The troops fired only when compelled to. I was between both, saw all, and know from an absolute knowledge of the whole affair whereof I say. The Indians state the case just [as] I do. I have every proof at hand, and when able will forward full statement and documentary evidence. (Father Francis M. J. Craft – Missionary Wounded in Battle)

Deposition (note that he called Col. Forsyth, the local commander, by his brevet rank of General, a common practice):

REVEREND FRANCIS M. J. CRAFT, Catholic Missionary Priest, being duly sworn, testifies as follows:

I am a missionary priest of the Catholic church, and have worked in that capacity among the Indians of the northwest for the past ten years. I came to Pine Ridge Agency in December, 1890, to visit the Catholic missions and schools as a representative of the Bureau of Catholic Indian Missions, and also to render what service I could in the settlement of the Indian troubles. . . .

In the morning, while the troops were preparing to disarm the Indians, I learned from several Indians with whom I spoke that they had left their agency, alarmed by the reports of the Indians who escaped from Standing Rock after the death of Sitting Bull. The Standing Rock Indians were not with them, but, as they said, left them on the way down, and went toward the Missouri. I saw that the Indians with whom I was speaking were the worst element of their agency, whose camp had for years been the rendezvous of all the worst characters on the Sioux Reservation.

About 8:30 A.M. General Forsyth called all the Indian men from the Indian camp to the point marked on the accompanying map, P, in order to separate them from the women and children. This seemed to be a very necessary precaution, although no trouble was apprehended. General Forsyth then spoke to the men through an interpreter, kindly and pleasantly, and explained the necessity of taking the arms, and assured them that they were perfectly safe in the hands of their old friends, the soldiers, and that starvation and other troubles were now happily at an end. The Indians answered in a way that showed they were pleased. Big Foot and others, however, denied having any guns, saying they had all been burned up.

General Forsyth reminded them, however, that the day before every man was seen to have at least one gun. General Forsyth then began sending the Indians in, a few at a time, to the camp to get their guns. They returned saying they had none. General Forsyth then pointed out to the Indians how plain it was they were deceiving him, and begged them not to compel him to search for the guns, but to have confidence in him and bring them themselves.

A medicine man now began praying, singing and walking around the circle of Indians, his words indicating that the Indians were afraid of what might happen to them when their guns would be taken, and going through various ceremonies that the soldiers' bullets might not hurt them. General Forsyth told him he had nothing to fear, and he was induced to sit down and be quiet.

As the Indians did not care to produce their guns, soldiers were sent to search for them in the Indian camp, but returned with very few. At this moment a soldier saw guns under the Indians' blankets, and informed General Forsyth and Major Whitside. As quietly as possible they directed the Indians to come forward, one by one, from the location marked on the map "P," to those marked "S" and "R," and throw aside their blankets and lay down their arms if they had any. Colonel Forsyth spoke very kindly to them, and said he did not wish himself to take their arms, but would rather they would come forward themselves like men and lay them down.

The Indians began to come forward as directed, one by one, to lay down their arms. Fifteen or twenty guns had been thus collected, when I heard among the soldiers in the positions marked "O" & "U," some one cry out "Look out, look at that," and saw them attempting to fall back to the square surrounding the Indians. I looked toward the Indians in the position marked "P," and saw that some were taking their guns from under their blankets and others were raising them ready to fire. The Indians seemed agitated. . . . I am convinced that the movement came from their fear of what might happen when the guns would be all surrendered, as they saw them being given up one by one. I went up to them and tried to reassure them, but very few listened to me.

It is possible that nothing might have occurred had not one young man, said to be the son of Big Foot, suddenly fired. His shot was followed by many others from the Indians. The soldiers did not fire until they were actually compelled to, and after the Indians had fired many shots.

When the soldiers returned the fire, the Indians broke up into small parties and charged back and forth across the square, firing and trying to break through. Some broke through towards the southwest, and some, I believe, towards the southeast. As they passed the end of the camp, a few women and children ran out and joined them.

The Hotchkiss battery opened on them as they crossed the agency road. It is possible that by this fire some women and children were killed. If so, the killing was unavoidable, as the soldiers could hardly have distinguished them from the men among whom they were, who were firing backwards as they ran. Many concealed themselves in the ravine. This ended the main battle, which lasted from one half to three-quarters of an hour. After all was over at least two shots were fired from the Indian camp "C," but the soldiers did not reply to them.

I was wounded early in the fight, but kept up until everything was over, and attended to the dying. After I finally gave out I was carried to the field hospital "J." I heard a volley of rifle shots fired from the Indian camp "C." No shots were fired by the soldiers for some minutes, but I heard some one shouting in "Dakota" as if an interpreter was speaking. The rifle shots from the camp continued and the Hotchkiss battery shelled the camp, and also the tents at "K" and "M," from which Indians were firing upon the soldiers.

I afterwards learned that contrary to their usual custom of protecting their women and children from danger, and of respecting the white flag, which they had hoisted over their camp, these Indians had actually managed to get back to their camp and fired from it upon the soldiers. If women and children were killed in the shelling of this camp, the Indians who caused it are to blame. I have heard this act of these Indians severely condemned by Brules and Ogalalas, who denounced them as murderers of the women and children, and exonerated the soldiers. (Father Francis M. J. Craft – Missionary Wounded in Battle)


Those who paint the battle as a massacre sometimes quote a few carefully chosen statements made by General Nathan Miles. However, although General Miles believed that the local commander, Col. Forsyth, had provoked the incident by badly mishandling the disarming of the Indians, he never claimed the incident was a massacre, and he approved medals for some of the soldiers who fought in the battle (Setting the Record Straight Regarding ‘Remove the Stain Act’).
The sheer stupidity in this blather is mind-numbing. For an 'Indian-lover' the Father sure loves to lie, and misrepresent shit to try and present his fellow whites in a good light. If you want to believe the army and agents were magnanimous in their intentions and actions, that Sitting Bull simply died (as opposed to being murdered) that the Indians fired 'many times' leaving the heavenly soldiers no alternative but to defend themselves, and that they maybe, just maybe have oopsy doopsie murdered over 100 women and children. have at it. Rewrite history all you want. Does not change what actually happened.
 
The sheer stupidity in this blather is mind-numbing. For an 'Indian-lover' the Father sure loves to lie, and misrepresent shit to try and present his fellow whites in a good light. If you want to believe the army and agents were magnanimous in their intentions and actions, that Sitting Bull simply died (as opposed to being murdered) that the Indians fired 'many times' leaving the heavenly soldiers no alternative but to defend themselves, and that they maybe, just maybe have oopsy doopsie murdered over 100 women and children. have at it. Rewrite history all you want. Does not change what actually happened.
You must have been wearing blinders when you read Father Craft's accounts. He blamed the agitation that preceded the incident on certain white settlers and BIA agents. How did you miss that?

Father Craft wasn't even around soldiers, or even at Wounded Knee, when he gave his first accounts, because he'd been taken to a local Catholic facility to be treated for his wounds, so he had no idea what the soldiers would say, much less that his accounts would agree with theirs.

But let me guess: You'll reject any account from a civilian or soldier if it does not agree with the PC version of the incident that you've accepted, right?

And, BTW, Sitting Bull was a murdering scum who had presided over the rape and savaging of several other Indian tribes. You know nothing about how he died, apparently. You realize he was shot by other Indians, right?

Here's what Captain Charles Varnum said about his own role in the Wounded Knee fight:

Major Whitside and I inspected about twenty Indians on the right of the circle and found no arms or ammunition. We then stood these back, and commenced to pass others between us for the search. Only two or three started which we examined, and I asked Major Whitside if we should take their belts as well as their cartridges, and he told me to let them have their belts. I took a hat and emptied into it the cartridges.

They all seemed to rise with a purpose of passing through to be searched, when I saw five or six bucks throw off their blankets and bring up their rifles. I turned to Major Whitside saying “By God they have broken,” and the Indians faced my troop and the next thing we got a volley, and the shooting was lively. They knifed some of my men immediately after the break.

Shortly after, as soon as I could get at them, I mounted my Troop and reported to General Forsyth, and immediately after was ordered to cover the hospital and some hours after to take 20 men and clear the ravine. I cleaned that up towards the head of the ravine some 150 yards.

In that ravine there were lots of dead and wounded Indians. One of my men crawled up who spoke Sioux, and an Indian said “I am an Oglala.” Lieut. Gresham said see if he has a gun, and if there is no danger leave him, and we left him.

Shortly after Lieut. Gresham, who was near me, yelled “Send me more men; there is a whole raft of them; let’s get them out; I don’t know what they are.”

I concentrated the detail and Pvt. Spinner commenced to talk Sioux to them, when some 19 women and children came out, and I took them out of the ravine and sent Spinner with them to camp. This ends the part I took in the fray. (Captain Charles Albert Varnum, Commander, B Troop, 7th Cavalry – Most Distinguished Gallantry)
 
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Let's look at the account of Lieutenant James Mann. Lt. Mann was severely wounded during the skirmishing along White Clay Creek on December 30, 1890, aka "the Mission Fight," which followed the battle at Wounded Knee on December 29. While recovering at Fort Riley, Kansas, in January, Lt. Mann dictated to one of his brothers his account of the fighting at Wounded Knee. Lt. Mann died of his wounds shortly after he dictated his account. Almost a half century later, Lt. Mann’s account was published by a cousin, Lieutenant Colonel Frazer Arnold, in The Cavalry Journal in 1939. Here is Lt. Mann's account:

Before all of Big Foot’s band came in [on December 28, 1890], two bucks [male Indians] were brought to camp. I had a boy with me from one of the agency stores and, through him, asked one of the bucks why they were coming in. He answered, “Because Red Cloud sent for us.” I then asked him if they had seen anything of Colonel Henry’s soldiers. [Major Guy V. Henry, 9th Cavalry, was scouting farther north at the confluence of Wounded Knee Creek and the White River.] He answered “No, but if they had, they would have run them out of the country quick enough.” I thought both of these answers sounded ominous, and the boy thought so, too, for he said, “Yes, you are nice Indians to talk of running the soldiers out of the country.”

The night before the fight, the Indians had asked for tents, saying they had not enough tent room, so we put up Wallace’s mess tent and some “Sibleys,” but when we went into them in the morning, there were no evidences of their having been occupied, except Wallace’s, which was occupied by Big Foot, who was sick.

The morning of the 29th we started to disarm them, the bucks being formed in a semi-circle in front of the tents. We went through the tents searching for arms, and while this was going on, everyone seemed to be good-natured, and we had no thought of trouble. The enlisted men were not allowed to go inside the tents and only took the arms as we handed them out.

The squaws [female Indians] were sitting on bundles concealing guns and other arms. We lifted them as tenderly and treated them as nicely as possible. Had they been the most refined ladies in the land, they could not have been treated with more consideration. The squaws made no resistance, and when we took the arms they seemed to be satisfied. Wallace (Captain George D. Wallace, 7th Cavalry) played with the children, chucking them under the chin and being as pleasant with them all as could be. He had picked up a stone war club, which he carried with him. I think we got about thirty pieces of various kinds from the tents.

As soon as we had finished this search, the squaws began packing up, which was a suspicious sign.

While this was going on, the medicine man, who was in the center of the semi-circle of bucks, had been going through the “Ghost Dance” and making a speech, the substance of which was, as told me by an interpreter afterwards, “I have made medicine of the White Man’s ammunition. It is good medicine, and his bullets can not harm you, as they will not go through your ghost shirts, while your bullets will kill.”

During this time the detachments that had been detailed to make the search of the tents had resumed their places, but I had to fill in on the “left,” instead of on the “right,” where I should have been. I had a peculiar feeling come over me which I can not describe–-some presentiment of trouble–and I told my men to “be ready; there is going to be trouble.” We were only six or eight feet from the Indians, and I ordered my men to “fall back.” I finally got them back about twenty-five feet. Then it seemed that at some signal all the bucks threw off their blankets and drew their weapons. My mind was never clearer than at this moment, and I saw distinctly what was coming. I thought, “The pity of it! What can they be thinking of?” I knew what must be the inevitable consequence to them with so many soldiers present.

In front of me were four bucks–three armed with rifles and one with bow and arrows. I drew my revolver and stepped through the line to my place with my detachment. The Indians raised their weapons over their heads to Heaven as if in votive offering, then brought them down to bear on us, the one with the bow and arrow aiming directly at me. Then they seemed to wait an instant. The medicine man threw a handful of dust into the air, put on his war bonnet, and then I heard a gun fired near him. This seemed to be the signal they had been waiting for, and the firing immediately began. I ordered my men to fire, and the reports were almost simultaneous.

After the first fire the Indians broke and ran back among their women and children, and some secreted themselves in the tents, keeping up their firing from there. One of them secreted himself in one of the “Sibley” tents and, cutting slits in it, out of which he could see, picked off a number of our men before we could locate him. One of my men, noticing where the shots came from, said: “I will get the ——– out of there” and ran up to the tent. I called to him to “come back,” but he kept on and with his knife slit the tent from top to bottom. Before he could do more, the buck had fired at him. He stepped back and exclaimed, “My God, he has shot me. I am killed. I am killed.” He turned and started to run back to us but, before reaching us, he fell dead.

A Hotchkiss gun was brought up, and a couple of shells exploded in the tent. There was no more shooting from there after that, but we did not know whether or not the buck was dead. To avoid the loss of any more men from him, we threw a fire-brand on the tent and burned it down, revealing the buck lying dead.

After the battle we found Wallace lying dead in front of a tent with two bullets through his body and a wound on his head, with empty revolver in his hand. I think someone must have reached out of the tent and struck him on the head with a war club after he was down, and possibly it was done with the war club he had been carrying. By this time all the Indians had been killed except a few who had secreted themselves in a gully, and these were dislodged by the Hotchkiss guns.

It was during this latter firing that Lieutenant Hawthorne was wounded.

I do not see how any disposition of the troops could have been made to have prevented the fight. I have thought over and over about this, and the only thing I can see would have been to place a man behind each buck, with his revolver against the buck’s head, with instructions to shoot if he made the least move, and I doubt if even that would have done any good.

This band of Indians was a sullen, hard lot, and they had made up their minds to die.

They were crazy with religious frenzy and believed they were going to exterminate the soldiers. (Lieutenant James D. Mann’s “Incidents of the Wounded Knee Fight”)
 
Those claim Wounded Knee was nothing but a "massacre" never mention the ambush that nearby Brule Indians carried out against two companies of soldiers that were pursuing the Indians who had dashed to the ravine near Wounded Knee Creek after the fighting began. This ambush suggested that Big Foot's Indians may have collaborated with the Brules before the battle.

Here is how the ambush occurred: After Captain Godfrey's detachment linked up with Captain Jackson's company near the head of the large ravine, they saw six Indians off in the distance riding toward them. The Indians were dressed as reservation (aka agency) policemen. Since the soldiers thought the six Indians were policemen, they allowed them to advance and then shook hands with them. As the six Indians rode away, they suddenly turned around and started firing at the soldiers, and immediately after this, 150 Brule warriors appeared and began firing at the soldiers as well.

Luckily, Captain Jackson was able to send a courier to Col. Forsyth to get reinforcements, and when those reinforcements arrived, the Indians fled.

I quote from Jerome Greene's book American Carnage: Wounded Knee, 1890:


Godfrey’s detachment started back. Perhaps three miles from the Lakota camp and army bivouac, near the head of the large ravine that ran down to Wounded Knee Creek, they encountered Jackson’s troop [company].

Away in the distance toward Pine Ridge Agency the soldiers sighted six Indians approaching who appeared to be agency policemen. They advanced and shook hands with the officers and rode back a way, then turned suddenly and fired at them. Immediately after this apparent signal some 150 warriors appeared—ostensibly some of Two Strike’s Brulés from the agency—and began shooting at the soldiers from three sides. Both troops [companies] returned fire while Jackson dispatched a courier to Forsyth for help.

A running fight commenced over several hundred yards. When Captains Ilsley and Edgerly appeared with their men, the warriors retired. No casualties occurred among the troops, although during the action Jackson’s twenty-three prisoners were abandoned by the soldiers and escaped to the Brulés. (pp. 240-242)


It's revealing that those who claim Wounded Knee was nothing but a massacre never talk about this part of the alleged "massacre." Every documentary I have found on Wounded Knee paints it as nothing but a case of naked, unprovoked aggression and murder by U.S. soldiers against defenseless Indians. Not one of them mentions this ambush. Nor do any of them mention Father Craft's accounts of the incident. And, of course, they dismiss all of the soldiers' accounts of the battle as a carefully crafted pack of lies, ignoring the fact that Father Craft's accounts support those given by the soldiers.
 
Those who claim Wounded Knee was nothing but a "massacre" never mention the ambush that Brule Indians carried out against two companies of soldiers that were pursuing the Big Foot Indians who had dashed to the ravine near Wounded Knee Creek after the fighting began. This ambush suggested that Big Foot Indians may have collaborated with the Brules before the battle.

Here is how the ambush occurred: After Captain Godfrey's detachment linked up with Captain Jackson's company near the head of the large ravine, they saw six Indians off in the distance riding toward them. The Indians were dressed as reservation (aka agency) policemen. Since the soldiers thought the six Indians were policemen, they allowed them to advance and then shook hands with them. As the six Indians rode away, they suddenly turned around and started firing at the soldiers, and immediately after this, 150 Brule warriors appeared and began firing at the soldiers as well.

Luckily, Captain Jackson was able to send a courier to Col. Forsyth to get reinforcements, and when those reinforcements arrived, the Indians fled.

I quote from Jerome Greene's book American Carnage: Wounded Knee, 1890:


Godfrey’s detachment started back. Perhaps three miles from the Lakota camp and army bivouac, near the head of the large ravine that ran down to Wounded Knee Creek, they encountered Jackson’s troop [company].

Away in the distance toward Pine Ridge Agency the soldiers sighted six Indians approaching who appeared to be agency policemen. They advanced and shook hands with the officers and rode back a way, then turned suddenly and fired at them. Immediately after this apparent signal some 150 warriors appeared—ostensibly some of Two Strike’s Brulés from the agency—and began shooting at the soldiers from three sides. Both troops [companies] returned fire while Jackson dispatched a courier to Forsyth for help.

A running fight commenced over several hundred yards. When Captains Ilsley and Edgerly appeared with their men, the warriors retired. No casualties occurred among the troops, although during the action Jackson’s twenty-three prisoners were abandoned by the soldiers and escaped to the Brulés. (pp. 240-242)


It's revealing that those who claim Wounded Knee was nothing but a massacre never talk about this part of the alleged "massacre." Every documentary I have found on Wounded Knee paints it as nothing but a case of naked, unprovoked aggression and murder by U.S. soldiers against defenseless Indians. Not one of them mentions this ambush. Nor do any of them mention Father Craft's accounts of the incident. And, of course, they dismiss all of the soldiers' accounts of the battle as a carefully crafted pack of lies, ignoring the fact that Father Craft's accounts support those given by the soldiers.
 
In order to believe that Wounded Knee was a massacre, one must reject all of the soldiers' accounts as carefully coordinated lies, even though those accounts are confirmed by Father Craft's accounts as far as how the fighting started and how and why many of the women and children were killed. Let's read again from Father Craft's deposition:

It is possible that nothing might have occurred had not one young man, said to be the son of Big Foot, suddenly fired. His shot was followed by many others from the Indians. The soldiers did not fire until they were actually compelled to, and after the Indians had fired many shots. When the soldiers returned the fire, the Indians broke up into small parties and charged back and forth across the square, firing and trying to break through. Some broke through towards the southwest, and some, I believe, towards the southeast. As they passed the end of the camp, a few women and children ran out and joined them. The Hotchkiss battery opened on them as they crossed the agency road. It is possible that by this fire some women and children were killed. If so, the killing was unavoidable, as the soldiers could hardly have distinguished them from the men among whom they were, who were firing backwards as they ran. . . . The rifle shots from the camp continued and the Hotchkiss battery shelled the camp, and also the tents at "K" and "M," from which Indians were firing upon the soldiers. (Father Francis M. J. Craft – Missionary Wounded in Battle)

I should add that during the fighting, one of the Indians stabbed Father Craft because he mistook him for a soldier. The Indians later expressed regret for stabbing Father Craft and apologized to him for it. That should tell you how they felt about him. He was their undying ally. If you read all of his accounts, you see that he bent over backward to excuse the Indians' conduct but that he frankly acknowledged that the Indians fired first and that the soldiers' conduct during the fighting was appropriate.

Let's read from Captain Myles Moylan's testimony regarding the deaths of women and children during the battle:

I think the killing of the women and children was entirely unavoidable, for the reason that when the bucks broke a large number of them made a rush for this ravine and in order to get there they had to pass through the tepees where the women and children were. I would say in addition that I repeatedly heard cautions given by both officers and non-commissioned officers not to shoot squaws or children, and cautioning the men individually that such and such Indians were squaws. The bucks fired from among the squaws and children in their retreat. When the bucks first fired, their shots passed unavoidably through the position occupied by the women and children. This was a fact that I saw distinctly and remarked at the time to Captain Ilsley prior to the firing, saying that the children were evidently apprehensive of no danger, as they were playing about the tepees, and when the Indians opened fire it was regardless of the consequences to their women and children and to the inevitable destruction of them. The firing on the plateau when the Indians made their break was, entirely on the part of our troops, directed on the bucks in the circle and in a direction opposite to the tepees. (Captain Myles Moylan, Commander of A Troop, 7th Cavalry)

Calling Wounded Knee a massacre is about as bad as calling the last phase of the fighting on Okinawa a massacre. Civilian casualties were especially heavy during the last part of the fighting on Okinawa because Japanese soldiers used civilians as human shields and because some civilians were so brainwashed by Imperial propaganda that they believed the Americans would slaughter them if they surrendered.

The Indians had several chances to avoid bloodshed. If they had handed over all of their guns when they were first asked to do so, there would have been no fighting and no loss of life. If they had handed over their weapons the second time they were asked to do so, that would have been the end of the matter, and no one would have been harmed. If the fanatical warriors among them had not been brainwashed by that crazy "medicine man" into believing that the soldiers' bullets would not harm them, and if they had not acted on this irrational belief by firing at the soldiers, there would have been no fighting and no loss of life.
 
At least the MoH "winners" had them finally revoked.
Nope. Wrong. They have not been revoked.

However, just a few months ago (in late July), the Secretary of Defense ordered a review of the Medals of Honor (MoHs) awarded to soldiers at Wounded Knee. That review is still ongoing.

Some of the MoHs were justified, but others were not.
 
Anyone who claims that the Ghost Dance movement had nothing to do with Wounded Knee and that the dance was merely a harmless religious ceremony either doesn’t know what they’re talking about or is knowingly trying to mislead their readers.

The Ghost Dance was the reason that the Army was called into the region in the first place. The Ghost Dance was the core reason that the Army ordered the interception and relocation of Big Foot’s band. The Ghost Dance was the reason that officials ordered the arrest of Sitting Bull, and ghost dancers directly caused Sitting Bull’s death; otherwise, he would have merely been arrested and detained temporarily. The Ghost Dance myth of the bullet-proof ghost shirt was at least one of the reasons that the hot-heated younger warriors at Wounded Knee opened fire on the soldiers after Black Coyote fired his rifle into the air, even though they knew that any of their missed shots would go straight toward their women and children barely 100 yards away, and even though they could see that they were heavily outnumbered.

The Indians in the region surrounding Wounded Knee, i.e., at the three agencies in the region, performed the Ghost Dance to facilitate the alleged coming of the new age in which whites would be killed by God/the Great Spirit and/or their messiah. The Ghost Dance prophecy stated that in the near future God would kill all whites by some catastrophic natural event in preparation for the new age. The leaders of the Ghost Dance movement said they were told in visions that the Indians were to perform the Ghost Dance in order to bring about this non-white new age.

Let us start with Dee Brown, perhaps the leading modern advocate of the view that Wounded Knee was a massacre from start to finish and was not a battle in any way, shape, or form. I quote from his famous book Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee:


[Quoting Wovoka, the founder of the Ghost Dance movement] All Indians must dance, everywhere, keep on dancing. Pretty soon in next spring Great Spirit come. He bring back all game of every kind. The game be thick everywhere. All dead Indians come back and live again. They all be strong just like young men, be young again. Old blind Indian see again and get young and have fine time. When Great Spirit comes this way, then all the Indians go to mountains, high up away from whites. Whites can’t hurt Indians then. Then while Indians way up high, big flood comes like water and all white people die, get drowned. After that, water go way and then nobody but Indians everywhere and game all kinds thick. . . .

Indians who don’t dance, who don’t believe in this word, will grow little, just about a foot high, and stay that way. Some of them will be turned into wood and be burned in fire. — WOVOKA, THE PAIUTE MESSIAH (Dee Brown, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, 2007, reprint of 1971 original, pp. 415-416).


Brown also acknowledged Kicking Bear’s promise that the ghost shirt would stop bullets:

Kicking Bear replied that if the Indians wore the sacred garments of the Messiah—Ghost Shirts painted with magic symbols—no harm could come to them. Not even the bullets of the Bluecoats’ guns could penetrate a Ghost Shirt. (Brown, Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, p. 433)

Dr. Robert Utley, one of the deans of Old West and Native American scholarship, on the violent, racist nature of the Ghost Dance prophecy:

The Sioux proclaimed that the Messiah, as punishment for three centuries of oppressing the red race, would wipe the white race from the earth. The whites “have treated the Indians very bad all the way through,” ran the Sioux story, and the Messiah is “going to exterminate the whites by some phenomenon in the spring of 1891.” Thus the whites were not to be gently pushed aside, but violently and vengefully destroyed. And a time, the spring of 1891, had been set. From this idea, it was for some only a short mental leap to the belief that force would help prepare for the day of deliverance. William T. Selwyn, mixed-blood postmaster at Pine Ridge, asked a Ghost Dancer “if their father advises them to cause trouble on the whites by next spring.” “That was the orders they had from their father,” was the reply, “but [the orders] will be kept secret.” (Utley, The Last Days of the Sioux Nation, Second Edition, Yale University Press, 2004, pp. 73-74)

Utley next quoted extensively from Little Horse, one of the apostles of the Ghost Dance movement:

Two holy eagles transported me [Little Horse] to the Happy Hunting Grounds. They showed me the Great Messiah there, and as I looked upon his fair countenance I wept. . . . He insisted that we continue the dance, and promised me that no whites should enter his city nor partake of the good things he had prepared for the Indians. The earth, he said, was now worn out and it should be repeopled.

After seeing the valley, we returned to the city, the Great Spirit speaking meanwhile. . . . He further instructed me to return to my people, the Sioux, and say to them that if they would be constant in the dance and pay no attention to the whites he would shortly come to their aid. If the high priests would make for the dancers medicine shirts and pray over them, no harm could come to the wearer; that the bullets of any whites that desired to stop the Messiah Dance would fall to the ground without doing any one harm, and the person firing such shots would drop dead. He said that he had prepared a hole in the ground filled with hot water and fire for the reception of all white men and non-believers. (The Last Days of the Sioux Nation, pp. 90-91)


So not only would whites be burned up in this hole of hot water and fire, but “non-believers,” i.e., Indians who rejected the Ghost Dance, would be wiped out as well.

Rex Alan Smith, a widely acclaimed historian on the Old West, on the problems being caused by the Ghost Dance movement among Big Foot’s people, partly because of Yellow Bird (the same fanatic who egged on the militant warriors to fight the soldiers at Wounded Knee and who promised them that their ghost shirts would stop bullets):


Big Foot—as his father, Lone Horn, had also been—was a diplomat, a peacemaker, and a friend of the whites. Nevertheless, even before the Ghost Dance excitement began, his band had become so unruly that since the past April the army had felt it advisable to maintain a camp of two hundred soldiers at the mouth of the Belle Fourche River, a few miles to Big Foot’s west, in order to make sure his people didn’t molest the settlers west of the reservation.

If the army’s reason for establishing its watchdog outpost (called Camp Cheyenne) was sound, and there actually was an ominous attitude among Big Foot’s people, it was due at least partly to the work of the medicine man, Yellow Bird. Yellow Bird was not only one of the most anti-white and one of the most dedicated-to-the-old-ways of all the Lakotah, but he was also a skilled agitator. So when the Messiah faith came along, Yellow Bird was provided with a religion that exactly suited both his feelings and his talents. Consequently, he kept Big Foot’s people so worked up over it that they danced, as an observer from Camp Cheyenne put it, “both day and night, so long as they are able to move and to keep awake.” (Rex Alan Smith, Moon of Popping Trees, University of Nebraska Press, Kindle Edition, locs. 1703-1709. A “loc” in a Kindle book can equal about one-fourth to one-half of a regular page, depending on the line spacing)


Smith on why officials had valid reasons to be concerned about the Ghost Dance movement and to try to stop the ghost dancing:

As the hot summer wore on, more and more Indians left their homes and farms to go live in the dance camps. Meanwhile, the agents at Pine Ridge and Rosebud and then at Cheyenne River pondered the problem and finally concluded they had no choice but to try to put an end to the dancing. There were some who criticized them for their decision at the time, and there have been many who have roundly condemned them for it since.

The critics at that time, for instance, argued that the agents actually had no problem. They maintained that if the agents would permit the dancing to continue without interference, the Indians would eventually realize the new world was not coming after all and the craze would die of its own failure. The more recent critics have continued to support that argument, but the basis of their most bitter denunciation of the agents has been the argument that the Ghost Dance was purely a religious rite and that the agents had no business interfering with religion.

Unlike their critics, however, the agents and their superiors did not have the advantage of historical hindsight. Furthermore, since they were the ones who actually had to cope with the situation, they were in no position to engage in detached ethical philosophizing. They were directly responsible for the welfare of the Sioux Indians on their reservations, and the Ghost Dance was giving them two very real problems.

The main one was the Indians’ food supply. Their rations had already been reduced to the point that even with such of the Indians’ farm and garden crops as had survived the drought, plus the fairly substantial number of meat animals the Indians were raising, they faced a winter of semi-starvation. But if the Indians continued to remain in the dance camps, and their crops and livestock continued to be unharvested and untended, the winter’s hunger could become catastrophic.

Their second problem was that law and order on Pine Ridge and Rosebud reservations and to some extent at Cheyenne River was beginning to be undermined by the few (so far) Indians who were inclined to take advantage of the supposed invulnerability in their ghost shirts and do what they pleased, when they pleased, and to whomever they pleased without fear of consequences. Until now there were only a few Indians with that attitude, but even a few were trouble enough on the reservation; and if they should wander off it, they could easily get both themselves and other people killed.

In addition to these very real problems, the agents also had other concerns which were real to them, but which no one can say even today were justified or not. The agents understood that the Ghost Dance religion had sprung up as just that—a religion. Their concern, however, was that it would become twisted into something more. They recognized in the dance a sort of mass hysteria that could easily produce highly emotional mobs which a skilled leader could influence to his own purpose, even if that purpose were war.

Furthermore, since the true believers were firmly convinced that the new world was to be created in the following spring (at which time all the dead Indians would be resurrected to live in it), the agents worried that a true believer would not fear dying in war. In fact, he might see it as a desirable thing if it would allow him to sleep peacefully through what would be a hungry winter and then awaken in the new Indian paradise.

Finally, there was the matter of the ghost shirts. The agents wondered why the Indians were being told they were bulletproof unless someone were planning for the Indians to face bullets. So it was that the concrete problems of the food shortage and the maintenance of reservation order, together with the possibility of the Ghost Dance’s becoming the foundation for a bloody uprising, caused the agents to decide to stop it. . . . The agents were by no means unjustified or unreasonable at the time in deciding to put an end to it. (Moon of Popping Trees, locs. 1709-1739)
 
Interestingly, and sadly, the moderators in the Historum forum closed the thread on Wounded Knee because several liberals complained about it, and the moderators won't allow further discussion on the subject.

This is so typical of liberals: when they start losing an argument because they haven't done their homework, they try to get moderators to close the thread and prohibit further discussion. One of the liberals who objected to the thread claimed it was guilty of "atrocity denial." Another liberal actually claimed that it was racist and bigoted to use the term "fanatical" to describe the militant younger warriors who believed their ghost shirts would stop bullets and who opened fire on the soldiers even though they were heavily outnumbered and outgunned and even though their own women and children were directly in their line of fire behind the soldiers.

For those who might be interested, I've created a website on Wounded Knee:

Wounded Knee: A Battle, Not a Massacre

We should be grateful that our moderators allow free and full discussion on controversial subjects.
 
One, I guess you didn't bother to read Father Craft's deposition or any of the links. Yes, many women and children were killed, mainly because the warriors mingled among them, fired from among them, and sometimes fired at them because they were between the warriors and the soldiers and the warriors did not care but fired anyway.

Two, as was typical in fights with Indians, some of the women and young teen/tween boys armed themselves and either fired guns at soldiers or fired arrows and/or threw tomahawks at soldiers. In some cases, Indian women and "children" would finish off a wounded soldier with a knife, tomahawk, or gun when the soldier was lying on the ground, unable to flee, and separated from other soldiers.

Three, it should be pointed out that the soldiers at Wounded Knee had no idea they would be in a battle that day. They were there merely to ensure that the Indians were disarmed. Some soldiers and civilians had seen rifles among the Indians in the days leading up to the incident, and some Indians had been trying to provoke a battle with the soldiers, with one medicine man (Yellow Bird) telling his fellow Indians that the soldiers' bullets could not harm them.

To perform the weapons search, the 470 soldiers at Wounded Knee were arranged to form three sides of an open square. Obviously, they would not have used this formation if they had expected trouble, since they would be firing into each other if a fight erupted. This is a clear indication that Col. Forsyth, the Army commander at the scene, intended to disarm the Indians peacefully.

Luckily, only a few soldiers were hit with friendly fire because the fighting was close-in combat at first, and so many of the soldiers on the perimeter of the formation held their fire.
Not that hiding behind civilians bollocks again, do me a favour, when will some people be man enough to face their history good or bad?
 
Wow, what a bigoted attitude.

And you didn't even read the OP, did you? Father Craft was what people used to call an "Indian lover." He was beloved by the Indians in the area. He spoke two Indian languages fluently. He was one of the Indians' truest friends. He constantly berated the Bureau of Indian Affairs for not treating the Indians better and constantly lobbied Congress for more Indian aid.

Yet, although Father Craft blamed local settlers and BIA agents for the unrest among the Indians that preceded the incident, he was honest enough to admit that the Indians fired first and that many of the soldiers actually held their fire until the Indians had fired several shots. He also admitted that the Indians who started the fighting were fanatical and dishonorable.


You are just determined to keep your blinders on, aren't you? Would it surprise to learn that part of the lyrics of the Ghost Dance that the Indians were doing at Wounded Knee called for the killing of white people, and that the settlers were aware of this?

Gee, if you found out that a large group of Muslim men in a local mosque were chanting a prayer that called for blowing up local buildings owned by "infidels," would you be just a little bit worried?

And, if you'd bothered to read any of the links, you'd know that a nutjob "medicine man" was going around telling the Indian males that the soldiers' bullets would not harm them, and that during the search for weapons he was mocking the warriors for not resisting and urging them to fight.
When you steal their land and mass murder their people, you have to expect they aren’t going to like you.

You do know that many Americans believed the only good Indian was a dead Indian. Massacres of Indians by the US Army and others were commonplace.

Do you see the similarities with the treatment of Palestinians today, by Israel?
 
When you steal their land and mass murder their people, you have to expect they aren’t going to like you.

You do know that many Americans believed the only good Indian was a dead Indian. Massacres of Indians by the US Army and others were commonplace.

Do you see the similarities with the treatment of Palestinians today, by Israel?
Indeed it's the same mentality once they found Gold in South Dakota and agreements went out of the window.
 
When you steal their land and mass murder their people, you have to expect they aren’t going to like you.
"Their land"? You mean the land that they seized from other tribes, far more ruthlessly than we ever dreamed of doing to get land? And "their land" often consisted of absurd claims to massive, multi-million-acre tracts of land that they only used a fraction of, because they refused to adopt modern methods of obtaining food.

The second point is something that most modern critics don't understand, or choose to ignore. The Indian land claims were simply ridiculous and unrealistic.

"Mass murder their people"? Uh, they "mass murdered" each other far more than we ever did.

And, FYI, roughly half of the Indians preferred modern life, civilization, to their old ways. Those Indians were known as "progressives." The Indians who rejected modernization were called "traditionalists." One problem was that the traditionalists frequently used violence to try to intimidate the progressives into opposing federal policy.

You do know that many Americans believed the only good Indian was a dead Indian. Massacres of Indians by the US Army and others were commonplace.
That is a severe exaggeration of what happened. Indians committed hundreds of massacres against settlers, not to mention against other tribes. Anyone who wants to read both sides of the story on the Indian wars, both between the Indians themselves and between the Indians vs. settlers and the Army, should start with three books:

Scalp Dance: Indian Warfare on the High Plains, by Thomas Goodrich

The Wild Frontier: Atrocities During the American-Indian War, by William M. Osborn

A Fate Worse than Death, by Greg Michno (who also wrote one of the best books on the Custer fight: Lakota Noon: The Indian Narrative of Custer's Defeat)

Goodrich and Osborn's books are available as Kindle books on Amazon.

Do you see the similarities with the treatment of Palestinians today, by Israel?
Oh, gosh, that is obscenely erroneous. Heard of October 7? Heard of the untold numbers of rocket attacks, numbering in the hundreds, that militant Palestinians in Gaza have launched against Israel over the last five years alone?

Palestinians who don't try to blow up Israeli school buses and diners and synagogues get along just fine with Israelis. Tens of thousands of peaceful Palestinians work in the Israeli economy. There are Palestinian members of the Israeli congress (the Knesset).

There are plenty of Palestinians who wish that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Fatah would go away. Jihadist Palestinians have killed far more of their fellow Palestinians than the Israelis have. If Gaza's Hamas leaders would start spending the huge foreign aid money they get on schools and infrastructure, instead of on tunnels and weapons, the people in Gaza would be far better off, and there'd be no war between Gaza and Israel.
 
"Their land"? You mean the land that they seized from other tribes, far more ruthlessly than we ever dreamed of doing to get land? And "their land" often consisted of absurd claims to massive, multi-million-acre tracts of land that they only used a fraction of, because they refused to adopt modern methods of obtaining food.

The second point is something that most modern critics don't understand, or choose to ignore. The Indian land claims were simply ridiculous and unrealistic.

"Mass murder their people"? Uh, they "mass murdered" each other far more than we ever did.

And, FYI, roughly half of the Indians preferred modern life, civilization, to their old ways. Those Indians were known as "progressives." The Indians who rejected modernization were called "traditionalists." One problem was that the traditionalists frequently used violence to try to intimidate the progressives into opposing federal policy.


That is a severe exaggeration of what happened. Indians committed hundreds of massacres against settlers, not to mention against other tribes. Anyone who wants to read both sides of the story on the Indian wars, both between the Indians themselves and between the Indians vs. settlers and the Army, should start with three books:

Scalp Dance: Indian Warfare on the High Plains, by Thomas Goodrich

The Wild Frontier: Atrocities During the American-Indian War, by William M. Osborn

A Fate Worse than Death, by Greg Michno (who also wrote one of the best books on the Custer fight: Lakota Noon: The Indian Narrative of Custer's Defeat)

Goodrich and Osborn's books are available as Kindle books on Amazon.


Oh, gosh, that is obscenely erroneous. Heard of October 7? Heard of the untold numbers of rocket attacks, numbering in the hundreds, that militant Palestinians in Gaza have launched against Israel over the last five years alone?

Palestinians who don't try to blow up Israeli school buses and diners and synagogues get along just fine with Israelis. Tens of thousands of peaceful Palestinians work in the Israeli economy. There are Palestinian members of the Israeli congress (the Knesset).

There are plenty of Palestinians who wish that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Fatah would go away. Jihadist Palestinians have killed far more of their fellow Palestinians than the Israelis have. If Gaza's Hamas leaders would start spending the huge foreign aid money they get on schools and infrastructure, instead of on tunnels and weapons, the people in Gaza would be far better off, and there'd be no war between Gaza and Israel.
Yes the native Americans committed awful atrocities. Why would support doing the same thing to them?
 
Yes the native Americans committed awful atrocities. Why would support doing the same thing to them?

The point of this thread is that we did not do that to them at Wounded Knee. Yes, at other times the Army massacred Indians, but the Indians committed far more massacres than the Army did. The point is that Wounded Knee was a battle, not a massacre, that it was a battle that several dozen militant warriors started against the wishes of the majority of the Indians who were there, and that most of the non-combatant casualties were caused by the Indians, not the soldiers.
 
The point of this thread is that we did not do that to them at Wounded Knee. Yes, at other times the Army massacred Indians, but the Indians committed far more massacres than the Army did. The point is that Wounded Knee was a battle, not a massacre, that it was a battle that several dozen militant warriors started against the wishes of the majority of the Indians who were there, and that most of the non-combatant casualties were caused by the Indians, not the soldiers.
Do you have the numbers proving the Indians massacred more people than did the US army and whites?
 
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