Zone1 The 17 Points of the True Church of Jesus Christ

[alang1216]

Looking forward...what is the next best "thing". It's like a virus. Martin Luther was once the "next best thing." Then Joseph Smith became the "next best thing".

Then there is the other "virus"...The past. Catholic and Orthodox always return to, "How did Jesus and the original Apostles" ... parents ... do this?

You also mentioned how little people of faith read and understand their own books. Rather than work through all the past material, it is easier to just go on to the "next best thing". Even when that next best thing is a troubled priest or a con man. This is why the Catholic and Orthodox churches remain strong. We do the reverse, go back to Jesus and the early Church--and once we have a better understanding of that, we tend to go back even further--The Old Testament.

This explains the lack of unification: People choose opposite directions.

I see a fundamental difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. In Protestantism, every man can read and interpret scripture so charismatic men tend to form their own cults. Some survive and become churches and some die off. Catholicism is the opposite, it has a central authority, the Pope, so, if you want to be Catholic, you follow his teachings. That, IMHO, is why there is one Catholic church and many Protestant churches.

 

[Cougarbear]

And I'd be the first to admit it.


You aren’t told what and how to think but, since you're already in the Church, you already know what and how to think. Since interfaith conversions are rare, I'm guessing the Holy Ghost almost always tells Mormons to stay Mormon, Catholics to stay Catholic, Greek Orthodox Christians to stay Greek Orthodox Christian, etc. Curious.

I am a convert. I was 24 when I was baptized and confirmed a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My conversion started when I was born. Life began to influence my way of understanding the my life. My parents, brother, cousins, aunts and so on. My teachers, rabbis, cantors and teachers influenced me. My teachers at schools along with my friends and so on. My friends and those I've come in contact with throughout my life and continue to. Your idea of what "think" is seems like something that cannot change. Knowledge is eternal. People can and often do change. We have that habit to repeat things that don't work expecting different results. Creatures of habit. But, that doesn't make God not exist. Nor does it answer which Church is true. Because Catholics claim they can trace their beginnings back to Peter doesn't mean their Church has any authority to perform any saving ordinances. Because Americans can trace their beginnings back to England doesn't mean we shouldn't be brushing our teeth. Or, we should give America back to England.

As to what the Holy Ghost tells people who are sincere with their prayers and don't have a double mind, the Holy Ghost will give anyone that which is best for them. As an example, a friend of mine didn't remember 20 years of his life due to alcohol and drugs. During that time, he had a daughter whom eventually ended up under the legal guardianship of her grandmother, my friend's mother. His desire to be in his daughter's life got him to seek help from the Lord. His first contact was with a Christian church that centered it's work on people with his condition of dependency. Because of the Holy Ghost working in him, he was respondent to their efforts to get him clean. However, in return, they expected him to go out and be amongst people like that and help them. All that did was put him in contact with drugs and alcohol again. So, he prayed again for help to know what to do. Two young me knocked on his door and began to teach him through the Book of Mormon. The Holy Ghost had touched him to be baptized because he would be hanging around those who weren't doing drugs and alcohol. He became stronger and stronger and eventually became part of his daughter's life again up until the day he died.

The problem with most Christian churches is that they believe the last word God ever would speak to them was written by John the Revelator and that God would never speak again with new information, teachings, clarifications and so on through Prophets and Apostles. So, your idea that people stay within the church they grow up with is mostly correct. But, not because of the reason you think. They rarely convert to our Church because they can't get over the idea the God is alive and speaks again through Apostles and Prophets. To keep the money they receive from their members, ministers and priests of other churches teach that anyone who claims to be a Prophet is a con-artist. That way, the money keeps flowing to them. The one I laugh at is that Joseph Smith had more than one wife and therefore was wicked even though Abraham had more that one wife. Anyways, when ready, the Holy Ghost will testify to you that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only one that has the authority to perform all the saving ordinances.

 

[Cougarbear]

I see a fundamental difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. In Protestantism, every man can read and interpret scripture so charismatic men tend to form their own cults. Some survive and become churches and some die off. Catholicism is the opposite, it has a central authority, the Pope, so, if you want to be Catholic, you follow his teachings. That, IMHO, is why there is one Catholic church and many Protestant churches.

Yes, we know it used to be allowed by governments for the Catholic church to kill anyone caught with a Bible or reading from the scriptures. That was reserved by the priests only. Once people started to learn to read, they were able to see fallacies taught by the priests and the Pope. The people could stay and continue to be duped by the RCC or form their own churches and teach what they could see with their own eyes was better. Either way, the authority to perform ordinances of any kind disappeared after John the Revelator was no longer considered alive. Apostacy hit and the Word was no longer available for teaching doctrine of truth.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, we know it used to be allowed by governments for the Catholic church to kill anyone caught with a Bible or reading from the scriptures. That was reserved by the priests only.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Cougarbear]

Don't be ridiculous.

Come on, heretics were condemned and punished. How were they punished?

 

[Meriweather]

heretics

Passing on those reading the Bible are you...

 

[BreezeWood]

we tend to go back even further--The Old Testament.

This explains the lack of unification: People choose opposite directions.

hereditary idolatry is a sin, abraham is one reason there can not be unification with the heavens till that sin is resolved. the false religion of judaism and its repudiation by jesus.

 

[Cougarbear]

Passing on those reading the Bible are you...

Funny how the many inquisitions they attacked people who just wanted to read the Bible and get knowledge through the influence of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Meriweather]

Funny how the many inquisitions they attacked people who just wanted to read the Bible and get knowledge through the influence of the Holy Ghost.

What is tragic is not going back to primary sources that cover the reality.

• There were quick, shaky, inaccurate translations being made of the Bible as entrepreneurs and printers saw a way to make a quick buck. This, versus the Church that wanted strong, accurate translations of the Bible being available.
• Translations into common languages from Greek, Latin, and Hebrew (or any language) can unintentionally lose something in the translation. Therefore, it is Bible study with a qualified scholar is critical. Otherwise people can read into the Bible something the original author never intended. "Rapture" is a prime example of this.

Foaming at the mouth inaccuracies that the Church didn't want people reading the Bible can be used against the Church, whereas the Church wanting people to have accurate Bibles works against people propagating the lies. People begin wondering why such a lie is necessary and what the liars hope to gain by them.

 

[Cougarbear]

What is tragic is not going back to primary sources that cover the reality.

• There were quick, shaky, inaccurate translations being made of the Bible as entrepreneurs and printers saw a way to make a quick buck. This, versus the Church that wanted strong, accurate translations of the Bible being available.
• Translations into common languages from Greek, Latin, and Hebrew (or any language) can unintentionally lose something in the translation. Therefore, it is Bible study with a qualified scholar is critical. Otherwise people can read into the Bible something the original author never intended. "Rapture" is a prime example of this.

Foaming at the mouth inaccuracies that the Church didn't want people reading the Bible can be used against the Church, whereas the Church wanting people to have accurate Bibles works against people propagating the lies. People begin wondering why such a lie is necessary and what the liars hope to gain by them.

We don’t teach the “Rapture.”

 

[Cougarbear]

If only life were so simple.

Did Paul Write “Paul’s Letter to the Ephesians”?​

the main reason for thinking that Paul didn’t write Ephesians is that what the author says in places does not gel with what Paul himself says in his own letters. Ephesians 2:1-10, for example, certainly looks like Paul, but just on the surface. Here, as in the letters that Paul himself definitely wrote, we learn that believers were separated from God because of sin but have been made right with God exclusively through his grace, not as the result of “works.” But here, oddly, Paul includes himself as someone who before coming to Christ, was carried away, by the “passions of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and senses.” This doesn’t sound like the Paul of the undisputed letters, who says that he had been “blameless” with respect to the “righteousness of the law” (Phil. 3:4). In addition, even though he is talking about the relationship of Jew and Gentile in this letter, the author does not speak about salvation apart from the “works of the law”, as Paul does. He speaks instead of salvation apart from doing “good deeds.” That simply was not the issue Paul addressed.

Again, it’s simply written by someone who doesn’t understand “Grace” and how it differed with “Faith.” The Atonement saves after all you can do. Your faith and works will determine this. Grace doesn’t mean everyone is saved. That’s false doctrine.

 

[alang1216]

I am a convert. I was 24 when I was baptized and confirmed a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My conversion started when I was born. Life began to influence my way of understanding the my life. My parents, brother, cousins, aunts and so on. My teachers, rabbis, cantors and teachers influenced me. My teachers at schools along with my friends and so on. My friends and those I've come in contact with throughout my life and continue to. Your idea of what "think" is seems like something that cannot change. Knowledge is eternal. People can and often do change. We have that habit to repeat things that don't work expecting different results. Creatures of habit. But, that doesn't make God not exist. Nor does it answer which Church is true. Because Catholics claim they can trace their beginnings back to Peter doesn't mean their Church has any authority to perform any saving ordinances. Because Americans can trace their beginnings back to England doesn't mean we shouldn't be brushing our teeth. Or, we should give America back to England.

As to what the Holy Ghost tells people who are sincere with their prayers and don't have a double mind, the Holy Ghost will give anyone that which is best for them. As an example, a friend of mine didn't remember 20 years of his life due to alcohol and drugs. During that time, he had a daughter whom eventually ended up under the legal guardianship of her grandmother, my friend's mother. His desire to be in his daughter's life got him to seek help from the Lord. His first contact was with a Christian church that centered it's work on people with his condition of dependency. Because of the Holy Ghost working in him, he was respondent to their efforts to get him clean. However, in return, they expected him to go out and be amongst people like that and help them. All that did was put him in contact with drugs and alcohol again. So, he prayed again for help to know what to do. Two young me knocked on his door and began to teach him through the Book of Mormon. The Holy Ghost had touched him to be baptized because he would be hanging around those who weren't doing drugs and alcohol. He became stronger and stronger and eventually became part of his daughter's life again up until the day he died.

The problem with most Christian churches is that they believe the last word God ever would speak to them was written by John the Revelator and that God would never speak again with new information, teachings, clarifications and so on through Prophets and Apostles. So, your idea that people stay within the church they grow up with is mostly correct. But, not because of the reason you think. They rarely convert to our Church because they can't get over the idea the God is alive and speaks again through Apostles and Prophets. To keep the money they receive from their members, ministers and priests of other churches teach that anyone who claims to be a Prophet is a con-artist. That way, the money keeps flowing to them. The one I laugh at is that Joseph Smith had more than one wife and therefore was wicked even though Abraham had more that one wife. Anyways, when ready, the Holy Ghost will testify to you that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only one that has the authority to perform all the saving ordinances.

Since you speak of faith, not history, I cannot take issue with anything you wrote. I'm happy that you have found a home and community but would remind you that everyone thinks their church is the true church since no one would ever claim to be a heretic.

 

[alang1216]

Again, it’s simply written by someone who doesn’t understand “Grace” and how it differed with “Faith.” The Atonement saves after all you can do. Your faith and works will determine this. Grace doesn’t mean everyone is saved. That’s false doctrine.

I'm always amazed that Christians have a very hard time defining what it means to be a Christian but they are always sure who is NOT a Christian.

 

[surada]

Yes, we know it used to be allowed by governments for the Catholic church to kill anyone caught with a Bible or reading from the scriptures. That was reserved by the priests only. Once people started to learn to read, they were able to see fallacies taught by the priests and the Pope. The people could stay and continue to be duped by the RCC or form their own churches and teach what they could see with their own eyes was better.

Either way, the authority to perform ordinances of any kind disappeared after John the Revelator was no longer considered alive. Apostacy hit and the Word was no longer available for teaching doctrine of truth.

Is that what Mormons teach?

 

[Meriweather]

We don’t teach the “Rapture.”

Sigh. Didn't say "you" did, did I. I said "Rapture" was an example--and a well-known one at that. Most are at least familiar with it.

 

[DGS49]

It is interesting in the extreme that nobody has mentioned the Nicene Creed in this thread. The Nicene Creed is the definitive answer to this question, as determined by the people most interested in the matter.

Consider...

The Nicene Creed​

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come.

But this thread also illustrates the folly of Protestantism, which is based on the notion that we humans can read the Scriptures and decide for ourselves what they mean, regardless of the fact that our forefathers have studied and pondered these questions for millennia and have figured it out.

There is only one true church, and it is based in Rome. It isn't perfect; no human institution is, but it is the one true church.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It is interesting in the extreme that nobody has mentioned the Nicene Creed in this thread. The Nicene Creed is the definitive answer to this question, as determined by the people most interested in the matter.

Consider...

The Nicene Creed​

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come.

But this thread also illustrates the folly of Protestantism, which is based on the notion that we humans can read the Scriptures and decide for ourselves what they mean, regardless of the fact that our forefathers have studied and pondered these questions for millennia and have figured it out.

There is only one true church, and it is based in Rome. It isn't perfect; no human institution is, but it is the one true church.

Your creed goes against your church teachings, Catholics believe God Jesus and the Holy Ghost are all one Being,

 

[BreezeWood]

and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.

all in the heavens are equal ...

He will come again (with glory)
to judge the living and the dead.

those who remain, living will be all the same in triumph they or the last to die will be the judgement - noah's parable, the religion of antiquity - a&e's choice for self determination.

 

[Cougarbear]

It is interesting in the extreme that nobody has mentioned the Nicene Creed in this thread. The Nicene Creed is the definitive answer to this question, as determined by the people most interested in the matter.

Consider...

The Nicene Creed​

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come.

But this thread also illustrates the folly of Protestantism, which is based on the notion that we humans can read the Scriptures and decide for ourselves what they mean, regardless of the fact that our forefathers have studied and pondered these questions for millennia and have figured it out.

There is only one true church, and it is based in Rome. It isn't perfect; no human institution is, but it is the one true church.

The Nicene Creed is false and the product of the apostasy Paul said would happen. Because the RCC was set up based on this creed, they have never been a church with authority from God.

 

[Meriweather]

The Nicene Creed is false and the product of the apostasy

Quote a couple of lines that you claim are apostasy and explain why they are apostasy.