Thank Labor Unions.

[JoeNormal]

I know that it's possible, and I know that it's happened often enough to justify employees to seek union representation to keep it from happening to them.

Either workers stick together to keep employment standards up, or it's a dog-eat-dog race to the bottom of the wage scale.

At a mom & pop operation or at even what's considered a small business, there's usually no need for employee unions. The boss knows his employees and his employees know him. It is, in a sense, a family, and they're all working together for their mutual benefit.

But at a large company, a business so large that an employee can pass his boss on the street and neither recognizes the other, that's when the employee better get together with other employees and form a group to protect their interests, because they are not considered family by their boss, they're considered human capital, a resource, a commodity. They're interchangeable and easily replaceable.

That's why there are unions. That's pretty much the only reason there are unions. They didn't fall out of the sky. They were created by big business through its treatment of those who provided the labor that made them big businesses. They are a response to a very real need, employee advocacy in the workplace.

Like I said, if you have to have a union to do for you, you're not worth hiring.

Bullshit. Plenty of extremely valuable workers are just not very good at negotiation. Scumbag employers count on that.

More excuses from the lefties.

Truth hurts doesn't it.

The truth that you lefties make excuses should hurt. It's the only thing you're good at.

I'm a professional now with some bargaining power but I've worked for people like you during my early adult years. Goddamn you fuckers are a miserable lot. Cheap, miserly, unappreciative... I refuse to patronize anybody like that any longer.

 

[Al Azar]

The US Chamber of Commerce is the largest and wealthiest lobby in the country, and there's no restriction on how it spends its dues. As you might imagine, it's in the Republican Party's pocket...
This is the sort of mindset that workers are facing every day on the job. If they think they are on an equal footing with their employer all on their own, more power to them. But I, for one, don't want to hear any grousing about how unfair it all is, and how their grievances are the government's fault. It's their own damned fault for not doing anything about it themselves.

Workers don't have to be or consider themselves "on an equal footing with their employer" to be satisfied with their situation. Everyone would like to earn more money or have better benefits but rational people understand that it's their marketable skills and education that determine their place on the pay scale.

That's what I meant by equal footing. When both employee and employer understand the value of the employee's skill set, they are on an equal footing. When the employer's position is take-it-or-leave it, they are not on an equal footing. One side has the power to force the other to act.

Neither side has any inherent right to that. Not the employee, not the employer.

 

[Al Azar]

I'm a professional now with some bargaining power but I've worked for people like you during my early adult years. Goddamn you fuckers are a miserable lot. Cheap, miserly, unappreciative... I refuse to patronize anybody like that any longer.

Similar here. I worked my way up through the ranks working for wages. When I became salaried I had a much better appreciation of the larger picture than the newly minted college graduates hired directly into supervision and management positions. They simply had never earned their chops. They may have learned some models in school but they had no idea what it meant to produce anything all their lives, for themselves or for an employer.

 

[SAYIT]

Workers don't have to be or consider themselves "on an equal footing with their employer" to be satisfied with their situation. Everyone would like to earn more money or have better benefits but rational people understand that it's their marketable skills and education that determine their place on the pay scale.

That's what I meant by equal footing. When both employee and employer understand the value of the employee's skill set, they are on an equal footing. When the employer's position is take-it-or-leave it, they are not on an equal footing. One side has the power to force the other to act.

Neither side has any inherent right to that. Not the employee, not the employer.

You don't have to like it but those who own the companies have the right and fiduciary duty to set their pay packages - as part of their business model - and the employee has the power to "leave it" and find other employment. An employee's marketable skills and education are the determining factors.

Like I said, those who don't understand this dynamic tend to whine about it.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Thank a union for Detroit

View attachment 87469

You like in a dream world of sound bites and bumper stickers. Foreign competition killed detroit moron.

******
No sir it was Auto Company Executives who decided to put the paint on only 3 molecules thick.

It was Auto Company Executives who decided to use thinner and thinner steel so they rusted out faster.

Auto Company Executives poor decisions drove people to foreign cards and destroyed Detroit.

Lmao, thinner steal rusts faster?

=====
It certainly does rust THROUGH faster. The thinner the steel the faster you get holes rusted in it.

 

[Al Azar]

Workers don't have to be or consider themselves "on an equal footing with their employer" to be satisfied with their situation. Everyone would like to earn more money or have better benefits but rational people understand that it's their marketable skills and education that determine their place on the pay scale.

That's what I meant by equal footing. When both employee and employer understand the value of the employee's skill set, they are on an equal footing. When the employer's position is take-it-or-leave it, they are not on an equal footing. One side has the power to force the other to act.

Neither side has any inherent right to that. Not the employee, not the employer.

You don't have to like it but those who own the companies have the right and fiduciary duty to set their pay packages - as part of their business model - and the employee has the power to "leave it" and find other employment. An employee's marketable skills and education are the determining factors.

Like I said, those who don't understand this dynamic tend to whine about it.

In the employer/employee relationship, neither ethically has the power to force the other to take any action, whether it be to keep the employee by meeting his terms, nor drive him away by flatly refusing them. Only when they are on equal footing can their positions find balance.

 

[Conservative65]

Like I said, if you have to have a union to do for you, you're not worth hiring.

Bullshit. Plenty of extremely valuable workers are just not very good at negotiation. Scumbag employers count on that.

More excuses from the lefties.

Truth hurts doesn't it.

The truth that you lefties make excuses should hurt. It's the only thing you're good at.

I'm a professional now with some bargaining power but I've worked for people like you during my early adult years. Goddamn you fuckers are a miserable lot. Cheap, miserly, unappreciative... I refuse to patronize anybody like that any longer.

Sounds to me like you thought you were worth more than you were and couldn't accept no as an answer.

 

[JoeNormal]

Bullshit. Plenty of extremely valuable workers are just not very good at negotiation. Scumbag employers count on that.

More excuses from the lefties.

Truth hurts doesn't it.

The truth that you lefties make excuses should hurt. It's the only thing you're good at.

I'm a professional now with some bargaining power but I've worked for people like you during my early adult years. Goddamn you fuckers are a miserable lot. Cheap, miserly, unappreciative... I refuse to patronize anybody like that any longer.

Sounds to me like you thought you were worth more than you were and couldn't accept no as an answer.

I've had employers almost cry when I decided to leave but paying me more would have apparently set a bad precedent. Do you ever care what your employees think about you?

 

[Conservative65]

More excuses from the lefties.

Truth hurts doesn't it.

The truth that you lefties make excuses should hurt. It's the only thing you're good at.

I'm a professional now with some bargaining power but I've worked for people like you during my early adult years. Goddamn you fuckers are a miserable lot. Cheap, miserly, unappreciative... I refuse to patronize anybody like that any longer.

Sounds to me like you thought you were worth more than you were and couldn't accept no as an answer.

I've had employers almost cry when I decided to leave but paying me more would have apparently set a bad precedent. Do you ever care what your employees think about you?

Since they get paid to do a job, as long as they're doing their job, that's all I care about. I'm not running a popularity contest.

Sounds to me as if they were crying that you hadn't left earlier.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Thank a union for Detroit

View attachment 87469

You like in a dream world of sound bites and bumper stickers. Foreign competition killed detroit moron.

******
No sir it was Auto Company Executives who decided to put the paint on only 3 molecules thick.

It was Auto Company Executives who decided to use thinner and thinner steel so they rusted out faster.

Auto Company Executives poor decisions drove people to foreign cards and destroyed Detroit.

Lmao, thinner steal rusts faster?

=====
It certainly does rust THROUGH faster. The thinner the steel the faster you get holes rusted in it.

How many rusted out 20 year old cars you seen lately ?

Its not because of the thickness of the steel...

 

[Al Azar]

I've had employers almost cry when I decided to leave but paying me more would have apparently set a bad precedent. Do you ever care what your employees think about you?

When I started out I was on my own. It was not a level playing field. Then I landed a job at a company where the employees had union representation. That put us on an equal footing. Our union represented us as a bloc, a group, not a collection of individuals who could be pitted against each other.

When I left the bargaining unit and went into management, I was again on my own. I accepted what I was offered because I didn't have enough of a track record in my new positions to negotiate. But once I has shown my value to the company and that had been acknowledged by promotion, I reached the point where I negotiated the terms of my employment and, again, my employer and I were on an equal footing.

I was with the company for 26 years, through every sort of business cycle, reorganization, restructuring and downsizing. I remained there because I and my employer were on the same page. We both knew what I was worth to the operation. We were on an equal footing, in balance.

Unless one is in a position to negotiate his own employment contract from a position of strength, he's a fool not to utilize union representation when it's available.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Thank a union for Detroit

View attachment 87469

You like in a dream world of sound bites and bumper stickers. Foreign competition killed detroit moron.

******
No sir it was Auto Company Executives who decided to put the paint on only 3 molecules thick.

It was Auto Company Executives who decided to use thinner and thinner steel so they rusted out faster.

Auto Company Executives poor decisions drove people to foreign cards and destroyed Detroit.

Lmao, thinner steal rusts faster?

=====
It certainly does rust THROUGH faster. The thinner the steel the faster you get holes rusted in it.

How many rusted out 20 year old cars you seen lately ?

Its not because of the thickness of the steel...

==========
Not today, but back in the 80's and early 90's when imports took over there were THOUSANDS of cars with rusted out floor boards and fenders.

It was very common to see.

Dealers used to make big commissions selling " undercoating " to try to keep your car fenders and floorboards from rusting out.

You need to know some of the history of the times instead of just vomiting up the anti-union crap from right wing web sites.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You like in a dream world of sound bites and bumper stickers. Foreign competition killed detroit moron.

******
No sir it was Auto Company Executives who decided to put the paint on only 3 molecules thick.

It was Auto Company Executives who decided to use thinner and thinner steel so they rusted out faster.

Auto Company Executives poor decisions drove people to foreign cards and destroyed Detroit.

Lmao, thinner steal rusts faster?

=====
It certainly does rust THROUGH faster. The thinner the steel the faster you get holes rusted in it.

How many rusted out 20 year old cars you seen lately ?

Its not because of the thickness of the steel...

==========
Not today, but back in the 80's and early 90's when imports took over there were THOUSANDS of cars with rusted out floor boards and fenders.

It was very common to see.

Dealers used to make big commissions selling " undercoating " to try to keep your car fenders and floorboards from rusting out.

You need to know some of the history of the times instead of just vomiting up the anti-union crap from right wing web sites.

So in your little mind they are now using heavier gauge steel?

Come on I dare you to post that

 

[JoeNormal]

Truth hurts doesn't it.

The truth that you lefties make excuses should hurt. It's the only thing you're good at.

I'm a professional now with some bargaining power but I've worked for people like you during my early adult years. Goddamn you fuckers are a miserable lot. Cheap, miserly, unappreciative... I refuse to patronize anybody like that any longer.

Sounds to me like you thought you were worth more than you were and couldn't accept no as an answer.

I've had employers almost cry when I decided to leave but paying me more would have apparently set a bad precedent. Do you ever care what your employees think about you?

Since they get paid to do a job, as long as they're doing their job, that's all I care about. I'm not running a popularity contest.

Sounds to me as if they were crying that you hadn't left earlier.

With that wonderful attitude towards your employees, I'm sure it's safe to say that your business doesn't create any intellectual property. I'm guessing that it's some kind of micro Walmart or maybe a fast food knockoff.

 

[Lakhota]

Happy Labor Day!

 

[Windship]

Oh, by the way, I don't think you've explained how it's the unions that are responsible for climbing prices and poor quality. That definitely needs explanation. Please extend me the same courtesy by providing it.

Wul thats just a crock of shit. America and its unions had the best reputation around the world! People placed American goods as paramount for top quality goods...jesus christ! You never heard of that? I remember. They were.

 

[Windship]

Oh, by the way, I don't think you've explained how it's the unions that are responsible for climbing prices and poor quality. That definitely needs explanation. Please extend me the same courtesy by providing it.

Ill tell ya something something else to...but Im confused by your words. Since unions are down to under 10% of our workforce and those are government jobs and we dont make anything any more...how do you come to the conclusion that unions drove prices up. No. UNFETTERED CAPITALISM is to blame and your another mediocre non research fool.

 

[Windship]

You're not the only one with those skills. Others who are hungrier than you can do your job for less. Who do you think will be doing your job when they come a-knocking at your boss' door?

You're at it again making claims you can't prove.

The same as it is now.

You are the only one with those skills? If I believed you, I'd be impressed.

Never said I was. What I did say is that being hungrier is irrelevant and doesn't qualify someone to do my job. Since you don't know what I do, and it's really none o your business, making claims you can't prove makes you look more foolish than you already do.

You're the one saying no one can do your job. That's quite a claim no matter who you are or what you do.

Never said that. You seem to think that all it would take is for someone to come in and be willing to do it for less for them to be hired. That simply isn't true.

Oh yes it's true. Its nothing but true.

 

[Windship]

Oh, by the way, I don't think you've explained how it's the unions that are responsible for climbing prices and poor quality. That definitely needs explanation. Please extend me the same courtesy by providing it.

Poor quality? The worker doesnt design the product the engineers do. Then the company desides how much cheaper to make it to maximize profit. Dont you know how it works? And these "poor quality"?...Id would like to know EXACTLY what products your a speaking of.

 

[Al Azar]

Oh, by the way, I don't think you've explained how it's the unions that are responsible for climbing prices and poor quality. That definitely needs explanation. Please extend me the same courtesy by providing it.

Poor quality? The worker doesnt design the product the engineers do. Then the company desides how much cheaper to make it to maximize profit. Dont you know how it works? And these "poor quality"?...Id would like to know EXACTLY what products your a speaking of.

If you're confirming what I've been saying, give me a thanks. You should be quoting the people I was responding to. It's starting to look like you're taking issue with my posts by repeatedly quoting them, then agreeing with me.