Texas denies anchor babies birth certificates

[Jackson]

Except that's completely unconstitutional.

Funny how once upon a few years ago the wingnuts all claimed that they were going to protect the Constitution.

Lying idiots.

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

What he said was that THOSE foreigners, the aliens that are here on Diplomatic missions for the USA from a foreign nation, their children and their children alone, are not citizens if born on this soil while working for a foreign Nation, but ALL OTHERS ARE CITIZENS if born on this soil....

THIS is how his statement has been interpreted ever since....these foreigners have ''Diplomatic Immunity'' and ARE NOT under the JURISDICTION of the USA....thus their children can NOT be born citizens on our soil.

Did you forget the word "aliens?" There's a matter of allegiance as well. Those aliens can go through the process of getting citizenship and pledging their allegiance to the US. It's not that they can't be citizens at all. Go back and start over.

 

[ogibillm]

and i've replied. what difference would that make for the allegiance of my son?

You should teach it to him as he grows up because the public schools aren't.
It is why we have a bunch of illegals coming here just so that they can get the goodies only, without caring or understanding what this nation is all about.
We are all Americans no matter what race we are.

great, but that does't answer the question asked of you.

if i am or am not here legally how does that affect the allegiance of my son?
do you see anything in the 14th amendment that calls for allegiance of the parent or even the child for citizenship to be conferred upon someone born here?

You are missing the point and I'm sorry that it seems so many of this nation no longer understand what it means .

what what means? what's your point? that you want to decide citizenship of children based on what you think the kid's parents are allegiant to?

do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment?

We were talking about the Supreme Court case (United States v. Wong Kim Ark) keep up with the conversation.

the one based on the 14th amendment. so do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment? why do you think allegiance matters?

 

[Jackson]

Except that's completely unconstitutional.

Funny how once upon a few years ago the wingnuts all claimed that they were going to protect the Constitution.

Lying idiots.

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

What part of who are diplomats did you fail to grasp?

What part of aliens and allegiance did you fail to grasp?

 

[g5000]

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

Irony. You did not do your research.

http://www.14thamendment.us/articles/jacob_howard_on_14th_amendment_1866.gif

You all may all read Jacob Howard's comments along with me from the Congressional Record. I will bold the most important part, and color the piece which was selectively taken out of context by Jackson:

"This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States."

Unfortunately, Jacob Howard did not realize the depth of mental incapacity of future nativists when he uttered that last sentence.

Howard, the sponsor of the 14th amendment, was clearly saying that only the foreign/alien children born here of ambassadors and foreign ministers are not citizens and that everyone else is.

He removed all doubt.

 

[ogibillm]

Except that's completely unconstitutional.

Funny how once upon a few years ago the wingnuts all claimed that they were going to protect the Constitution.

Lying idiots.

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

What he said was that THOSE foreigners, the aliens that are here on Diplomatic missions for the USA from a foreign nation, their children and their children alone, are not citizens if born on this soil while working for a foreign Nation, but ALL OTHERS ARE CITIZENS if born on this soil....

THIS is how his statement has been interpreted ever since....these foreigners have ''Diplomatic Immunity'' and ARE NOT under the JURISDICTION of the USA....thus their children can NOT be born citizens on our soil.

Did you forget the word "aliens?" There's a matter of allegiance as well. Those aliens can go through the process of getting citizenship and pledging their allegiance to the US. It's not that they can't be citizens at all. Go back and start over.

you need to re-read that quote. it's about adding the phrase 'and under the jurisdiction thereof'
stating that it would not apply to the families of ambassadors and foreign ministers accredited to the us, those foreigners and aliens, doesn't mean that it doesn't apply to all foreigners and aliens.

 

[Ravi]

I would like to know why ALL democrats,left wingers,liberals whatever the hell you want to call yourself are so insistent on the US becoming a non white majority nation....you do realize this country was founded,fought for and built BY and FOR whites of good moral character and without white men and women the things we ALL enjoy we would not have and the high standard of living we have will only continue to erode the less white it becomes. Yet you democrats,liberals,left wingers seem to WANT that why is that? Some stupid sense of white guilt? You think the US deserves to be less white because its so far more advanced? what is it? The more I read from and about democrats,liberals and left wingers beliefs and comments on things the more I am convinced its a mental disease. No other explanation for it. So I am truly interested in knowing WHY.

You and the misnamed peach, who thanked you, believe only white people should be Americans. This is seriously awesome.

 

[g5000]

Did you forget the word "aliens?"

Everyone admits the children born to foreigners who are here legally have a US birthright.

This is what blows the "allegiance exception means all foreigners" argument out of the water.

The allegiance exception applies to those ambassadors and foreign ministers who have diplomatic immunity. By definition, they are not under US jurisdiction.

So once again, US jurisdiction is the only requirement for all kids born here.

Howard was talking about foreigners/aliens who have diplomatic immunity. Not ALL foreigners/aliens.

 

[Jackson]

You should teach it to him as he grows up because the public schools aren't.
It is why we have a bunch of illegals coming here just so that they can get the goodies only, without caring or understanding what this nation is all about.
We are all Americans no matter what race we are.

great, but that does't answer the question asked of you.

if i am or am not here legally how does that affect the allegiance of my son?
do you see anything in the 14th amendment that calls for allegiance of the parent or even the child for citizenship to be conferred upon someone born here?

You are missing the point and I'm sorry that it seems so many of this nation no longer understand what it means .

what what means? what's your point? that you want to decide citizenship of children based on what you think the kid's parents are allegiant to?

do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment?

We were talking about the Supreme Court case (United States v. Wong Kim Ark) keep up with the conversation.

the one based on the 14th amendment. so do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment? why do you think allegiance matters?

Thank you for asking. The Indians were initially denied citizenship under the 14th Amendment because of their allegiance to their tribes and culture over the US.

Two Supreme Court precedents were set by the cases of Elk v. Wilkins[24] and United States v. Wong Kim Ark.[3]Elk v. Wilkins established that Native American tribes represented independent political powers with no allegiance to the United States, and that their peoples were under a special jurisdiction of the United States. Children born to these Native American tribes therefore did not automatically receive citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment if they voluntarily left their tribe.[25] Indian tribes that paid taxes were exempt from this ruling; their peoples were already citizens by an earlier act of Congress, and all non-citizen Native Americans (called "Indians") were subsequently made citizens by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.

 

[Ravi]

Except that's completely unconstitutional.

Funny how once upon a few years ago the wingnuts all claimed that they were going to protect the Constitution.

Lying idiots.

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

What part of who are diplomats did you fail to grasp?

What part of aliens and allegiance did you fail to grasp?

Lol, alien is just another word for foreigner. You are none too bright.

 

[ogibillm]

great, but that does't answer the question asked of you.

if i am or am not here legally how does that affect the allegiance of my son?
do you see anything in the 14th amendment that calls for allegiance of the parent or even the child for citizenship to be conferred upon someone born here?

You are missing the point and I'm sorry that it seems so many of this nation no longer understand what it means .

what what means? what's your point? that you want to decide citizenship of children based on what you think the kid's parents are allegiant to?

do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment?

We were talking about the Supreme Court case (United States v. Wong Kim Ark) keep up with the conversation.

the one based on the 14th amendment. so do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment? why do you think allegiance matters?

Thank you for asking. The Indians were initially denied citizenship under the 14th Amendment because of their allegiance to their tribes and culture over the US.

denied because of their autonomy - nothing to do with allegiance.

 

[g5000]

It would be fun watching a nativist try to explain how a foreigner/alien here on a visa does not have an allegiance to their home country while an illegal foreigner does.

All of their arguments have been thoroughly gutted, and yet they keep going!

Amazing.

 

[g5000]

Thank you for asking. The Indians were initially denied citizenship under the 14th Amendment because of their allegiance to their tribes and culture over the US.

Their children were denied birthright citizenship because the Indians were not under US jurisdiction.

Read the Congressional Record I have provided umpteen times, research boi.

 

[Ravi]

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

Irony. You did not do your research.

http://www.14thamendment.us/articles/jacob_howard_on_14th_amendment_1866.gif

You all may all read Jacob Howard's comments along with me from the Congressional Record. I will bold the most important part, and color the piece which was selectively taken out of context by Jackson:

"This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to thes Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States."

Unfortunately, Jacob Howard did not realize the depth of mental incapacity of future nativists when he uttered that last sentence.

Howard, the sponsor of the 14th amendment, was clearly saying that only the foreign/alien children born here of ambassadors and foreign ministers are not citizens and that everyone else is.

He removed all doubt.

Yep. And the amendment was needed to keep politicians from deciding which groups they deemed worthy of citizenship. Which is what Trump wants to do. It really doesn't get more fascist that that.

 

[peach174]

You should teach it to him as he grows up because the public schools aren't.
It is why we have a bunch of illegals coming here just so that they can get the goodies only, without caring or understanding what this nation is all about.
We are all Americans no matter what race we are.

great, but that does't answer the question asked of you.

if i am or am not here legally how does that affect the allegiance of my son?
do you see anything in the 14th amendment that calls for allegiance of the parent or even the child for citizenship to be conferred upon someone born here?

You are missing the point and I'm sorry that it seems so many of this nation no longer understand what it means .

what what means? what's your point? that you want to decide citizenship of children based on what you think the kid's parents are allegiant to?

do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment?

We were talking about the Supreme Court case (United States v. Wong Kim Ark) keep up with the conversation.

the one based on the 14th amendment. so do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment? why do you think allegiance matters?

Why does allegiance matter?
Would you rather the USA be Mexico?

 

[g5000]

A diplomat who is accredited by the United States with immunity is not under US jurisdiction, by definition. They are under the jurisdiction of their home country even though they are on US soil. They are performing official duties for their government while they are here. That is what the "allegiance" thing is all about. It has a very narrow meaning and has nothing to do with any other foreigners.

If it did, you would run into a contradiction back when you all agreed that birthright citizenship applied to foreigners here legally. If the "allegiance" exception applied to foreigners other than diplomats, then the children of those here legally would not have birthright citizenship.

So you clearly have a serious misunderstanding of the allegiance exception.

 

[g5000]

Why does allegiance matter?
Would you rather the USA be Mexico?

Non sequitur.

 

[Jackson]

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

Irony. You did not do your research.

http://www.14thamendment.us/articles/jacob_howard_on_14th_amendment_1866.gif

You all may all read Jacob Howard's comments along with me from the Congressional Record. I will bold the most important part, and color the piece which was selectively taken out of context by Jackson:

"This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States."

Unfortunately, Jacob Howard did not realize the depth of mental incapacity of future nativists when he uttered that last sentence.

Howard, the sponsor of the 14th amendment, was clearly saying that only the foreign/alien children born here of ambassadors and foreign ministers are not citizens and that everyone else is.

He removed all doubt.

I assert he would have said " This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons." if that was what he meant. He made a point of saying, foreigners, comma, aliens, comma who belong to the families of ambassadors. Istead of commans, he could have listed the same as, what commas sometimes intend. Like this

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are:
foreigners,
aliens,
who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States,

but will include every other class of persons.

 

[ogibillm]

great, but that does't answer the question asked of you.

if i am or am not here legally how does that affect the allegiance of my son?
do you see anything in the 14th amendment that calls for allegiance of the parent or even the child for citizenship to be conferred upon someone born here?

You are missing the point and I'm sorry that it seems so many of this nation no longer understand what it means .

what what means? what's your point? that you want to decide citizenship of children based on what you think the kid's parents are allegiant to?

do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment?

We were talking about the Supreme Court case (United States v. Wong Kim Ark) keep up with the conversation.

the one based on the 14th amendment. so do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment? why do you think allegiance matters?

Why does allegiance matter?
Would you rather the USA be Mexico?

what i want is irrelevant - as is your question.
do you see anything about allegiance in the 14th amendment?

 

[peach174]

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

Irony. You did not do your research.

http://www.14thamendment.us/articles/jacob_howard_on_14th_amendment_1866.gif

You all may all read Jacob Howard's comments along with me from the Congressional Record. I will bold the most important part, and color the piece which was selectively taken out of context by Jackson:

"This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to thes Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States."

Unfortunately, Jacob Howard did not realize the depth of mental incapacity of future nativists when he uttered that last sentence.

Howard, the sponsor of the 14th amendment, was clearly saying that only the foreign/alien children born here of ambassadors and foreign ministers are not citizens and that everyone else is.

He removed all doubt.

Yep. And the amendment was needed to keep politicians from deciding which groups they deemed worthy of citizenship. Which is what Trump wants to do. It really doesn't get more fascist that that.

That includes our current President who wants to bring in high skilled tech job workers.
Yes we want new citizens that will contribute for the better to our country.
How is it working out for California with so many of their illegals?
Not very well.

 

[ogibillm]

Senator Howard, who wrote the 14th amendment also wrote this essay on the amendment:

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

For those who want to protect the constitution, this shows illegal aliens are not covered under the 14th amendment.
I would guess the true idiot is one who does not do their research.

Irony. You did not do your research.

http://www.14thamendment.us/articles/jacob_howard_on_14th_amendment_1866.gif

You all may all read Jacob Howard's comments along with me from the Congressional Record. I will bold the most important part, and color the piece which was selectively taken out of context by Jackson:

"This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States."

Unfortunately, Jacob Howard did not realize the depth of mental incapacity of future nativists when he uttered that last sentence.

Howard, the sponsor of the 14th amendment, was clearly saying that only the foreign/alien children born here of ambassadors and foreign ministers are not citizens and that everyone else is.

He removed all doubt.

I assert he would have said " This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons." if that was what he meant. He made a point of saying, foreigners, comma, aliens, comma who belong to the families of ambassadors. Istead of commans, he could have listed the same as, what commas sometimes intend. Like this

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are:
foreigners,
aliens,
who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States,

but will include every other class of persons.

again, you're missing the meaning of those words. they do not mean what you are claiming.
it's also hard to credit the punctuation to him when he only spoke the words and did not write them.

i would say that if they were to mean what you claim and he was making a list he would have needed to throw in an 'and' or 'or'