Terri Schiavo's Husband: Jeb Bush 'Put Me Through Hell'

[ChrisL]

Look, if she was in pain and suffering, I would agree, but she wasn't suffering until they disconnected her feeding tube. That CAUSED her to suffer.

No. There was no suffering. She could feel nothing. The parts of the brain that produces thirst, hunger and pain were liquified.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?????????????????

Who decides that?????????

Someone who could smile and blink her eyes can't feel pain?????????

You libs are sure willing to decide FOR OTHERS who can and can't feel suffering.

Would you be so willing on yourselves????

I bet not!

Science decides that. We know how these things work, you know.

And you bet your ass if my brain were liquified as hers was - I would want out.

It's just stupid to keep nothing but a shell of a human being around, and great cost just so you can feel better about yourself.

Science decides that??????????

Yeah like "science" decided in Nazi Germany that Jews were not really people and could be killed!

Science decides a LOT of things doesn't it in your world.

Nazi Germany indeed!

Scientology is not science.

Why these people think her brain was "liquid" I do not know. They are just idiots. Her brain was atrophied. If her brain was liquid she would have been dead!

 

[Muhammed]

Michael Schiavo was trying to honor his wife - so why did Jeb Bush interfere?

Michael Schiavo only saw his wife as a paycheck and punching bag.

How do you suppose she got all those broken bones?

 

[Lakhota]

Michael Schiavo was trying to honor his wife - so why did Jeb Bush interfere?

Michael Schiavo only saw his wife as a paycheck and punching bag.

How do you suppose she got all those broken bones?

Broken bones? Did you read the autopsy report? She was suffering from severe osteoporosis.

Autopsy: Schiavo Was Not Abused - Fox News

 

[Faun]

I am. You have a problem understanding that there are worse things than death, much worse.

You don't know how Terry felt. You have no clue. Her parents visited her every day.

Her husbands knows who she felt, before she was dead before she hit the floor. Life can be brutal, start dealing with it like an adult, not a child.

No he doesn't know how she felt. It is a well-documented fact that husbands and wives can have less than ideal relationships, whereas your parents (in most instances) love for you is unconditional.

Now you're lying. In reality, you have no idea what she told her husband.

For one thing, I didn't say that she told her husband anything. AND, neither do you know what she said to her husband.

Bullshit. You said Michael had no idea how she felt. The stark reality is you are the one who has no idea what Terri told Michael before becoming ill.

 

[Faun]

Exactly how do you go from stating "it is not known" if she was in pain ... to stating "she was in pain?"

Damn! You'You're losing this debate so badly, you're even defeating your own arguments.

Did you not read my post? It is not known. It is a controversial matter, especially for a person like Terry who was NOT unconscious. Also, her gasping and panting is well documented while she was in the throes of death. That is an indication of pain.

Exactly how stupid are you? You went from saying it was not known if she felt pain to saying she did feel pain. Again, you destroy your own arguments even when others aren't doing that to you.

Obviously, your reading comprehension is as poor as your spelling. I said it's controversial. Some doctors say a patient feels pain. Others say they don't.

However, according to witnesses at her bedside, Terry was in pain when she died.

Your own words....

Faun: She lacked the cognitive ability to comprehend her starvation.

ChrisL: That is not known. There are doctors who say she MAY produce natural "pain killer type" chemicals. Others say it is a slow and very painful death, especially for a person who is NOT brain dead, like Terry. It is awful. Awfully cruel.​

You go from saying it's not known if she was in pain or not ... to saying she was in pain. Then, when called on destroying your own position, you deny saying it.

Wow, you are even MORE of an idiot than I gave you credit for. Lol.

Your own words reveal you to be the idiot. In response to my claim she did not possess the mental capacity to comprehend she was starving, you stated, "that is not known." And despite posting some believe she may have and other think she did, you still posted, "that is not known."

You then flipped your own position when you went from, It's not known, to, It's known.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

No. There was no suffering. She could feel nothing. The parts of the brain that produces thirst, hunger and pain were liquified.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?????????????????

Who decides that?????????

Someone who could smile and blink her eyes can't feel pain?????????

You libs are sure willing to decide FOR OTHERS who can and can't feel suffering.

Would you be so willing on yourselves????

I bet not!

Science decides that. We know how these things work, you know.

And you bet your ass if my brain were liquified as hers was - I would want out.

It's just stupid to keep nothing but a shell of a human being around, and great cost just so you can feel better about yourself.

Science decides that??????????

Yeah like "science" decided in Nazi Germany that Jews were not really people and could be killed!

Science decides a LOT of things doesn't it in your world.

Nazi Germany indeed!

Scientology is not science.

Why these people think her brain was "liquid" I do not know. They are just idiots. Her brain was atrophied. If her brain was liquid she would have been dead!

They think she was dead and said so repeatedly on this thread. I've never seen people so eager to be on the side of scientific ignorance as I've seen here.

 

[paperview]

No. There was no suffering. She could feel nothing. The parts of the brain that produces thirst, hunger and pain were liquified.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?????????????????

Who decides that?????????

Someone who could smile and blink her eyes can't feel pain?????????

You libs are sure willing to decide FOR OTHERS who can and can't feel suffering.

Would you be so willing on yourselves????

I bet not!

Science decides that. We know how these things work, you know.

And you bet your ass if my brain were liquified as hers was - I would want out.

It's just stupid to keep nothing but a shell of a human being around, and great cost just so you can feel better about yourself.

Science decides that??????????

Yeah like "science" decided in Nazi Germany that Jews were not really people and could be killed!

Science decides a LOT of things doesn't it in your world.

Nazi Germany indeed!

Scientology is not science.

Why these people think her brain was "liquid" I do not know. They are just idiots. Her brain was atrophied. If her brain was liquid she would have been dead!

No.

Let a doctor explain it for you:

"First the cell dies due to lack of oxygen, that happened day one.

Next the dead cells atrophy, that takes some time. Since those cells are now smaller the extra space in the cranium is filled with cerebrospinal fluid. That giant pocket of fluid represents how massive the initial insult was.

She was brain dead, blind, deaf and incapable of feeling pain from day one."

 

[paperview]

"Bradley examined a dozen CT scans of Schiavo's brain taken in 1996. They show large patches of dark material, a sign that cerebrospinal fluid has replaced what once was brain tissue. The pool of fluid in the center of her brain is 10 times larger than normal, Bradley said.

"This brain is really so dramatically damaged that no one could possibly function at anything other than an extremely low level of ability," he said."

 

[paperview]

Her brain had essentially liquified.

"RangelMD, a doctor-blog, has a discussion of Terri’s condition. Referring to the image from Terri’s CT scan which has appeared on the web, Dr. Rangel writes:

To the medically trained person this scan appears grossly abnormal and sickening. The blue areas are remaining brain tissue but most of the scan shows black areas which are essentially fluid (cerebrospinal fluid). The normal body reaction to irreversibly damaged tissue is to replace it with fluid and this is clearly what has happened after Mrs. Schiavo suffered severe anoxic damage to her cerebral cortex .

Most of what remains of her brain is essentially a fluid filled sac surrounded by a thin shell of brain tissue rather then the solid structure we normally associate with a brain. […]"

 

[Faun]

Then you don't know the bible. The bible gives instructions on how to perform an abortion. So no, the bible doesn't condemn abortion. If you want to follow the bible then you better READ it first.

Numbers 5:11-31New International Version (NIV)
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousycome over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offeringand burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”

That's a screwed up translation in all probability from NIV 2011. NIV 2011 from what I have read has changed 40% of the verses and is apparently a far cry from the 1984 version.

These verses are not the Bible telling how to give an abortion. That's beyond whacked out.



These passages only deal with how a husband could tell if his wife has been unfaithful or if he has been unduly jealous.

You will note that the word miscarry is not in play here at all. I don't know what they were smoking when they translated this chapter at NIV but in the original King James translation there isn't a pregnancy involved whatsoever. And the bitter water only carries the curse.

Sheesh.

King James version regarding the Law of Jealousies

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,

13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:

15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:

17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:

18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:

19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:

20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:

21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:

24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.

25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:

26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.

27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;

30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

Bible King James Numbers - Wikisource the free online library

They will try to dig up obscure passages to slander God who is the creator of life and commands that innocent life not be taken. I don't bother with these trolls.

Although this translated passage that this poster is using to justify abortion is in the NIV 2011 it was not translated like this in the 1984 NIV translation published by Zondervan.

This 2011 version is out to lunch, highly controversial and has been broadly condemned.

There are many faults. 40% of the verses have been altered from what I've been able to discern.

Someone's going to hell in a handbasket for this

I have in my home library King James bible, NIV 1978, NIV 1984 the RSV (Revised Standard Version)and a copy of the Jehovah Witness's bible that a friend gave me and that's the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

All well read many times over.

None of these translations even remotely resemble the 2011 NIV.

None of these other translations mentions says the woman will miscarry. Basically this abomination justifies abortion.

It's really whacked out. AKA an abomination before Jehovah.

You don't like that version? How about the king james version? That's one of the problems with the bible. There are countless versions of it. Which is the correct one? Seems people can pick and choose what their higher power said or did in the bible. No matter what version, they all tell how to perform an abortion. Notice that the woman has no choice. It's forced on her. There is no such word as miscarry in the king james version. Although a miscarriage is just a spontaneous abortion. An induced abortion is what the bible is telling people what to do. It's not spontaneous and what is called a miscarriage now. It's a forced abortion.

Numbers 5:11-31 KJV - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, - Bible Gateway

Numbers 5:11-31King James Version (KJV)
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,

13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:

15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord:

17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:

18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:

19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:

20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:

21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:

24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.

25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar:

26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.

27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;

30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

It's a bullshit translation. Period. Full stop.

I know my versions very well including the original NIV translation.

There is no mention of pregnancy or miscarriage in any other translation.

This version is.....how do I put it nicely..........FUBAR'D.



Fucked up beyond all recognition. It's an abomination.

Huh? There's no mention of pregnancy?? It reads if the woman did not cheat on her husband, she shall conceive seed; but if she did cheat, her belly will swell and her thigh will rot (whatever that means).

 

[Faun]

Not awful. She lacked the cognitive ability to comprehend her starvation.

That is not known. There are doctors who say she MAY produce natural "pain killer type" chemicals. Others say it is a slow and very painful death, especially for a person who is NOT brain dead, like Terry. It is awful. Awfully cruel.

No, you are being dishonest: she had no higher brain functions! She felt nothing, because her brain had liquefied! She had the mental faculties of a carrot.

Shut up. You're not a doctor. Her doctors and family who SAW her and spent time with her said that she did. So you are being dishonest, not to mention you don't know what you're talking about. Stuff it.

No, actually, I am going by the results of her autopsy. Her brain was GONE. No amount of your shrieking horseshit to the heavens will change this simple FACT. Facts are stubborn things.

Her brain was atrophied, which is common in brain damage. It was not "liquid" nor was it "gone" but I think yours may be. Lol.

Stop lyin', ya liar. Her brain weighed roughly half that a normal brain because roughly half of it was replaced by spinal fluid.

Time and time again, you reveal you know so little about the actual facts of this case.

 

[Faun]

Stop humiliating yourself. I am truly starting to feel sorry for you.

Why? I am a medical assistant. I am familiar with these things. Do you have any kind of medical background at ALL? No? You're a ******* idiot and should keep your stupid mouth shut about that which you know NOTHING, fool.

From an eye witness at Terri's bedside:

I will never forget my hours with Terri, both before and after her feeding tube was removed. She responded to me, and she responded to others who visited her. She laughed, she tried to speak, she returned her parents’ kisses, she followed us with her eyes, she closed her eyes when I prayed with her and opened them when we were finished. Medical examiners can offer their conclusions because of what they saw, but none of that changes what we saw. But both we and the medical examiners were looking in from the outside. Any honest medical expert will admit that there is so much about the human brain we still don’t know. What Terri experienced on the inside is a mystery that only she and God know.

Say, isn't that from the same person who claimed Terri's mindful gaze followed a balloon? But then her autopsy proved she was blind.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

(whatever that means).

Exactly. You don't know. That's hardly a strong argument for the Bible supporting abortion on demand.

 

[tinydancer]

That's a screwed up translation in all probability from NIV 2011. NIV 2011 from what I have read has changed 40% of the verses and is apparently a far cry from the 1984 version. These verses are not the Bible telling how to give an abortion. That's beyond whacked out. These passages only deal with how a husband could tell if his wife has been unfaithful or if he has been unduly jealous. You will note that the word miscarry is not in play here at all. I don't know what they were smoking when they translated this chapter at NIV but in the original King James translation there isn't a pregnancy involved whatsoever. And the bitter water only carries the curse. Sheesh. King James version regarding the Law of Jealousies 11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, 13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD: 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse: 19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: 20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: 21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; 22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar: 26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity. Bible King James Numbers - Wikisource the free online library

They will try to dig up obscure passages to slander God who is the creator of life and commands that innocent life not be taken. I don't bother with these trolls.

Although this translated passage that this poster is using to justify abortion is in the NIV 2011 it was not translated like this in the 1984 NIV translation published by Zondervan. This 2011 version is out to lunch, highly controversial and has been broadly condemned. There are many faults. 40% of the verses have been altered from what I've been able to discern. Someone's going to hell in a handbasket for this I have in my home library King James bible, NIV 1978, NIV 1984 the RSV (Revised Standard Version)and a copy of the Jehovah Witness's bible that a friend gave me and that's the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. All well read many times over. None of these translations even remotely resemble the 2011 NIV. None of these other translations mentions says the woman will miscarry. Basically this abomination justifies abortion. It's really whacked out. AKA an abomination before Jehovah.

You don't like that version? How about the king james version? That's one of the problems with the bible. There are countless versions of it. Which is the correct one? Seems people can pick and choose what their higher power said or did in the bible. No matter what version, they all tell how to perform an abortion. Notice that the woman has no choice. It's forced on her. There is no such word as miscarry in the king james version. Although a miscarriage is just a spontaneous abortion. An induced abortion is what the bible is telling people what to do. It's not spontaneous and what is called a miscarriage now. It's a forced abortion. Numbers 5:11-31 KJV - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, - Bible Gateway Numbers 5:11-31King James Version (KJV) 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, 13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord: 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse: 19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: 20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: 21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; 22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar: 26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

It's a bullshit translation. Period. Full stop. I know my versions very well including the original NIV translation. There is no mention of pregnancy or miscarriage in any other translation. This version is.....how do I put it nicely..........FUBAR'D. Fucked up beyond all recognition. It's an abomination.

Huh? There's no mention of pregnancy?? It reads if the woman did not cheat on her husband, she shall conceive seed; but if she did cheat, her belly will swell and her thigh will rot (whatever that means).

That's a screwed up translation in all probability from NIV 2011. NIV 2011 from what I have read has changed 40% of the verses and is apparently a far cry from the 1984 version. These verses are not the Bible telling how to give an abortion. That's beyond whacked out. These passages only deal with how a husband could tell if his wife has been unfaithful or if he has been unduly jealous. You will note that the word miscarry is not in play here at all. I don't know what they were smoking when they translated this chapter at NIV but in the original King James translation there isn't a pregnancy involved whatsoever. And the bitter water only carries the curse. Sheesh. King James version regarding the Law of Jealousies 11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, 13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD: 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse: 19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: 20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: 21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; 22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar: 26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity. Bible King James Numbers - Wikisource the free online library

They will try to dig up obscure passages to slander God who is the creator of life and commands that innocent life not be taken. I don't bother with these trolls.

Although this translated passage that this poster is using to justify abortion is in the NIV 2011 it was not translated like this in the 1984 NIV translation published by Zondervan. This 2011 version is out to lunch, highly controversial and has been broadly condemned. There are many faults. 40% of the verses have been altered from what I've been able to discern. Someone's going to hell in a handbasket for this I have in my home library King James bible, NIV 1978, NIV 1984 the RSV (Revised Standard Version)and a copy of the Jehovah Witness's bible that a friend gave me and that's the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. All well read many times over. None of these translations even remotely resemble the 2011 NIV. None of these other translations mentions says the woman will miscarry. Basically this abomination justifies abortion. It's really whacked out. AKA an abomination before Jehovah.

You don't like that version? How about the king james version? That's one of the problems with the bible. There are countless versions of it. Which is the correct one? Seems people can pick and choose what their higher power said or did in the bible. No matter what version, they all tell how to perform an abortion. Notice that the woman has no choice. It's forced on her. There is no such word as miscarry in the king james version. Although a miscarriage is just a spontaneous abortion. An induced abortion is what the bible is telling people what to do. It's not spontaneous and what is called a miscarriage now. It's a forced abortion. Numbers 5:11-31 KJV - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, - Bible Gateway Numbers 5:11-31King James Version (KJV) 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, 13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord: 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse: 19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: 20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: 21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; 22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar: 26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

It's a bullshit translation. Period. Full stop. I know my versions very well including the original NIV translation. There is no mention of pregnancy or miscarriage in any other translation. This version is.....how do I put it nicely..........FUBAR'D. Fucked up beyond all recognition. It's an abomination.

Huh? There's no mention of pregnancy?? It reads if the woman did not cheat on her husband, she shall conceive seed; but if she did cheat, her belly will swell and her thigh will rot (whatever that means).

That's a screwed up translation in all probability from NIV 2011. NIV 2011 from what I have read has changed 40% of the verses and is apparently a far cry from the 1984 version. These verses are not the Bible telling how to give an abortion. That's beyond whacked out. These passages only deal with how a husband could tell if his wife has been unfaithful or if he has been unduly jealous. You will note that the word miscarry is not in play here at all. I don't know what they were smoking when they translated this chapter at NIV but in the original King James translation there isn't a pregnancy involved whatsoever. And the bitter water only carries the curse. Sheesh. King James version regarding the Law of Jealousies 11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, 13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD: 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse: 19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: 20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: 21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; 22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar: 26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity. Bible King James Numbers - Wikisource the free online library

They will try to dig up obscure passages to slander God who is the creator of life and commands that innocent life not be taken. I don't bother with these trolls.

Although this translated passage that this poster is using to justify abortion is in the NIV 2011 it was not translated like this in the 1984 NIV translation published by Zondervan. This 2011 version is out to lunch, highly controversial and has been broadly condemned. There are many faults. 40% of the verses have been altered from what I've been able to discern. Someone's going to hell in a handbasket for this I have in my home library King James bible, NIV 1978, NIV 1984 the RSV (Revised Standard Version)and a copy of the Jehovah Witness's bible that a friend gave me and that's the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. All well read many times over. None of these translations even remotely resemble the 2011 NIV. None of these other translations mentions says the woman will miscarry. Basically this abomination justifies abortion. It's really whacked out. AKA an abomination before Jehovah.

You don't like that version? How about the king james version? That's one of the problems with the bible. There are countless versions of it. Which is the correct one? Seems people can pick and choose what their higher power said or did in the bible. No matter what version, they all tell how to perform an abortion. Notice that the woman has no choice. It's forced on her. There is no such word as miscarry in the king james version. Although a miscarriage is just a spontaneous abortion. An induced abortion is what the bible is telling people what to do. It's not spontaneous and what is called a miscarriage now. It's a forced abortion. Numbers 5:11-31 KJV - And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, - Bible Gateway Numbers 5:11-31King James Version (KJV) 11 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him, 13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord: 17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18 And the priest shall set the woman before the Lord, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse: 19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: 20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: 21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The Lord make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the Lord doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; 22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the Lord, and offer it upon the altar: 26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

It's a bullshit translation. Period. Full stop. I know my versions very well including the original NIV translation. There is no mention of pregnancy or miscarriage in any other translation. This version is.....how do I put it nicely..........FUBAR'D. Fucked up beyond all recognition. It's an abomination.

Huh? There's no mention of pregnancy?? It reads if the woman did not cheat on her husband, she shall conceive seed; but if she did cheat, her belly will swell and her thigh will rot (whatever that means).

There is no mention of pregnancy whatsoever. The curse is that if the wife has been unfaithful she will become disfigured.

A distended belly and a rotting thigh.

In none of the translations that I listed including NIV 1984 is there any mention that the unfaithful wife would get pregnant by the bitter drink and then miscarry.

NIV2011 is a bad freaking joke.

 

[paperview]

For a so-called Christian - you're one really fucked up little piece of shit.

If you don't repent, you're going to hell for eternity.

I'm very serious.

**** you! I'd welcome hell rather than be around pieces of shit like you! I'm very serious.

Then that's where you'll go. Hell is nothing more than a continuation of a person's decision to live apart from the love of God. There is no force, only decisions.

Who told you all that twisted shit?

 

[ChrisL]

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?????????????????

Who decides that?????????

Someone who could smile and blink her eyes can't feel pain?????????

You libs are sure willing to decide FOR OTHERS who can and can't feel suffering.

Would you be so willing on yourselves????

I bet not!

Science decides that. We know how these things work, you know.

And you bet your ass if my brain were liquified as hers was - I would want out.

It's just stupid to keep nothing but a shell of a human being around, and great cost just so you can feel better about yourself.

Science decides that??????????

Yeah like "science" decided in Nazi Germany that Jews were not really people and could be killed!

Science decides a LOT of things doesn't it in your world.

Nazi Germany indeed!

Scientology is not science.

Why these people think her brain was "liquid" I do not know. They are just idiots. Her brain was atrophied. If her brain was liquid she would have been dead!

No.

Let a doctor explain it for you:

"First the cell dies due to lack of oxygen, that happened day one.

Next the dead cells atrophy, that takes some time. Since those cells are now smaller the extra space in the cranium is filled with cerebrospinal fluid. That giant pocket of fluid represents how massive the initial insult was.

She was brain dead, blind, deaf and incapable of feeling pain from day one."

CSF is NOT the brain. People are saying her brain was liquid. It was not. It had shrunk which happens often with brain damage. Eye witnesses (multiple eyewitnesses and doctors) disagree with you. She was conscious, awake and alert.

 

[ChrisL]

Her brain had essentially liquified.

"RangelMD, a doctor-blog, has a discussion of Terri’s condition. Referring to the image from Terri’s CT scan which has appeared on the web, Dr. Rangel writes:

To the medically trained person this scan appears grossly abnormal and sickening. The blue areas are remaining brain tissue but most of the scan shows black areas which are essentially fluid (cerebrospinal fluid). The normal body reaction to irreversibly damaged tissue is to replace it with fluid and this is clearly what has happened after Mrs. Schiavo suffered severe anoxic damage to her cerebral cortex .

Most of what remains of her brain is essentially a fluid filled sac surrounded by a thin shell of brain tissue rather then the solid structure we normally associate with a brain. […]"

CSF is the fluid that surrounds the brain. Because the brain was atrophied (shrunken), of course there is going to be MORE CSF fluid surrounding it. This is common in people who have suffered severe damage and does not mean that the brain does not function anymore.

 

[Katzndogz]

If there hadn't been money involved Michael Schiavo wouldn't care what happened to his wife. He would have divorced her. Instead he loved her so much he was ******* his girlfriend making babies.

 

[ChrisL]

Cerebral atrophy is a common feature of many of the diseases that affect the brain.[1] Atrophy of any tissue means a decrement in the size of the cell, which can be due to progressive loss of cytoplasmic proteins. In brain tissue, atrophy describes a loss of neurons and the connections between them. Atrophy can be generalized, which means that all of the brain has shrunk; or it can be focal, affecting only a limited area of the brain and resulting in a decrease of the functions that area of the brain controls. If the cerebral hemispheres (the two lobes of the brain that form the cerebrum) are affected, conscious thought and voluntary processes may be impaired.

Some degree of cerebral shrinkage occurs naturally with age; after the brain completes growth and attains its maximum mass at around age 25, it gradually loses mass with each decade of life, although the rate of loss is comparatively tiny until the age of 60, when approximately .5 to 1% of brain volume is lost per year. By age 75, the brain is an average of 15% smaller than it was at 25. Some areas of the brain such as short-term memory are affected more than others and men lose more brain mass overall than women.

 

[ChrisL]

If you don't repent, you're going to hell for eternity.

I'm very serious.

**** you! I'd welcome hell rather than be around pieces of shit like you! I'm very serious.

Then that's where you'll go. Hell is nothing more than a continuation of a person's decision to live apart from the love of God. There is no force, only decisions.

Who told you all that twisted shit?

Wow, you're an asshole, I see.