Tenure-- harmful or helpful?

[liberalogic]

The issue of tenure for teachers has always bothered me. I think that teachers comprise the backbone of our society-- developing children into students, students into learners, and learners into scholars (though it doesn't always get that far). The problem that I've seen, though, is that the tenure laws are so tight that teachers have much freedom and it takes a lot to get them fired even if they are irresponsible, lousy, and lazy. While I think tenure is good because I believe in job security, I think that the requirements to achieve it should be strenghthened and those who are tenured should be evaluated appropriately to make sure they are on top of their jobs. I say this because I had quite a few teachers who were irresponsible and lazy with little work ethic in HS and they were all tenured.

 

[Annie]

The issue of tenure for teachers has always bothered me. I think that teachers comprise the backbone of our society-- developing children into students, students into learners, and learners into scholars (though it doesn't always get that far). The problem that I've seen, though, is that the tenure laws are so tight that teachers have much freedom and it takes a lot to get them fired even if they are irresponsible, lousy, and lazy. While I think tenure is good because I believe in job security, I think that the requirements to achieve it should be strenghthened and those who are tenured should be evaluated appropriately to make sure they are on top of their jobs. I say this because I had quite a few teachers who were irresponsible and lazy with little work ethic in HS and they were all tenured.

Tenure should be done away with. Schools have an inherent call for experienced teachers, yet they should be teachers that continue to improve, not be 'in a job forever' after 3-5 years.

 

[liberalogic]

Tenure should be done away with. Schools have an inherent call for experienced teachers, yet they should be teachers that continue to improve, not be 'in a job forever' after 3-5 years.

Wow! For a teacher to say that gives me faith that at least some kids are being educated correctly.

 

[Mr. H.]

Unconstitutional!

 

[initforme]

I'm for getting rid of tenure...at the same time investing in good teachers and finding ways to retain them as many move onto much higher paying professions. One way would be to deem a teacher effective and then the district pay for the continuing education and professional development rather than out of the teachers pocket.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Tenure-- harmful or helpful? Both of course. A faculty senate or equivalent is dedicated to good teaching will mitigate most of the problem.

 

[regent]

At one time many teaching jobs was based politics. A different political party is elected and all the teachers fired and teachers from the winning political party hired. Teacher Credentials were not always required, lf the podunk school district deemed the applicant was a teacher bingo he or she was a teacher. One only had to declare they were going to pursue a teacher's license and take an occasional college course.
The same, "to the victor belongs the spoils" concept was applied to most local government positions, and to some extent may still be. Clerks and others had to belong to the right party and on request, donate. Government began to cure the problem with Civil Service, and teachers with tenure. Political party still plays a large part in the promotion department.

 

[JT8691]

As a first year teacher who scored above-average to exceptional on my reviews/evaluations. My test grade results were also above average for my school, county, and state. I all ready scored higher than many of my co-workers in my department.


I don't believe in tenure at all.

If the day ever comes that I'm unable to be an effective teacher I would like to think that I can (and SHOULD) be fired.

 

[longknife]

Tenure of all types is out-dated and counter-productive.

Definition of tenure (n)
Bing Dictionary

ten·ure
[ ténnyər ]

appointment or period of appointment: the occupation of an official position, or the length of time that an official position is occupied
permanent status: the position of having a formal secure appointment until retirement, especially at an institution of higher learning after working there on a temporary or provisional basis
property rights: the rights of a tenant to hold property, or the holding of property as a tenant

The start of the tenure movement paralleled similar labor struggles during the late 19th century. Just as steel and auto workers fought against unsafe working conditions and unlivable wages, teachers too demanded protection from parents and administrators who would try to dictate lesson plans or exclude controversial materials like Huck Finn from reading lists. In 1887, nearly 10,000 teachers from across the country met in Chicago for the first-ever conference of the National Educator's Association, now one of the country's most powerful teachers' unions. The topic of "teacher's tenure" led the agenda. By the turn of the century, tenure had become a hot-button issue that some politicians preferred to avoid. In 1900, the Democratic Party of New York blasted their rivals in the Times for taking up the issue, writing, "We deprecate the tendency manifested by the Republican party of dragging the public school system of the State into politics."

If anything, I think the movement to create tenure was a socialist ploy to ensure that a class of people are not answerable for their actions or lack thereof.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I can see some need for tenure at the university level, but there is no educational need for it in high school or below. It works against what's best for a child's education.

 

[JT8691]

I can see some need for tenure at the university level, but there is no educational need for it in high school or below. It works against what's best for a child's education.

Agreed. If you're an ineffective teacher--you should be let go.

 

[R.D.]

Tenure-- harmful or helpful? Both of course. A faculty senate or equivalent is dedicated to good teaching will mitigate most of the problem.

Good one!

 

[regent]

I can see some need for tenure at the university level, but there is no educational need for it in high school or below. It works against what's best for a child's education.

Agreed. If you're an ineffective teacher--you should be let go.

What is an ineffective teacher and how is an ineffective teacher identified, and who does the identification?

 

[ScienceRocks]

I think a teacher should be fired if they fail to educate their class to standard.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I can see some need for tenure at the university level, but there is no educational need for it in high school or below. It works against what's best for a child's education.

Agreed. If you're an ineffective teacher--you should be let go.

What is an ineffective teacher and how is an ineffective teacher identified, and who does the identification?

higher then the schools avg for dropouts
Lower test scores
Teacher doesn't care about their students and doesn't help them.

 

[regent]

Agreed. If you're an ineffective teacher--you should be let go.

What is an ineffective teacher and how is an ineffective teacher identified, and who does the identification?

higher then the schools avg for dropouts
Lower test scores
Teacher doesn't care about their students and doesn't help them.

So the teacher gives students better grades and easier work and the student stays in school and bingo the teacher is an effective teacher. Sounds like a great idea.

 

[whitehall]

Why don't the freaking smart folks challenge tenure in court? Peer pressure from elitist left wingers?

 

[DGS49]

It makes sense to give experienced people a little more job protection than "newbies" because there is a tendency for new managers to want to make "sweeping changes" when they start, in order to have a strong, immediate impact. So before being fired or terminated, a "senior" person should have some disinterested person review the case against them to ensure that the action is not taken on a whim.

And that's about it.

The idea of School Districts having to hire lawyers, and spend years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to fire someone whom management deems unfit is ridiculous. Or to have rooms filled with teachers doing nothing, but still fully compensated - as they had in NYC for many years is worthy of a taxpayer rebellion.

 

[blastoff]

I think a teacher should be fired if they fail to educate their class to standard.

Well, that sounds like a fine idea in general. But how would you feel about being fired for not meeting the standard because a bunch of the students just plain don't give a shit about their education?

 

[hunarcy]

I think a teacher should be fired if they fail to educate their class to standard.

Well, that sounds like a fine idea in general. But how would you feel about being fired for not meeting the standard because a bunch of the students just plain don't give a shit about their education?

One problem is that we are educating PEOPLE, not creating a product. People mature and develop at different rates and so something that's taught last year might not make sense to the student until their brain matures enough to grasp the concept next year. And, another problem is that as soon as you tie "success" to teacher performance, the experienced teachers will only want to work with "Gifted" students who you can count on to perform well. That means the child who is struggling will not have access to that teacher's experience and expertise. Why do you want to limit the opportunity of those students by having them only exposed to new teachers who mean well, but haven't developed the skills to help their students?