Teacher Sues After Being Fired For Refusing To Use Transgender Student’s ‘Preferred Pronoun

[martybegan]

Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.

I agree, it is the intent is what makes it hate.

If I told my teacher my name is John but he insisted on calling me Jane or Moron. Is that hate? Don't we all get to be called by our given name? Why are pronouns any different?

if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.

What is happening here is you are asking people to deny reality and call a she a he. The guy tried to compromise by using neutral terms, but that isn't good enough for the Progressive Stasi.

 

[emilynghiem]

Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.

I agree, it is the intent is what makes it hate.

If I told my teacher my name is John but he insisted on calling me Jane or Moron. Is that hate? Don't we all get to be called by our given name? Why are pronouns any different?

Dear alang1216
The debates seem to be whether to legally and scientifically
recognize gender based on genetics, or REQUIRE people
to recognize some internal/cultural identity that is arbitrarily decided.

It's closer to
* if a person has a religion by which they have a title like Captain.
And this person wants to REQUIRE another person to address
them as Captain which is part of their religious identity, culture, affiliation or PRACTICE.
* if a person has a NICKNAME such as Charlie instead of Charles,
or BUZZ instead of their legal name. And this person wants to require
another person to call them by their NICKNAME.

What are the school policies?
If the school requires teachers to use the LEGAL name,
and it's OPTIONAL to use nicknames, then that's up to the individual.

What are the rules in grammar and etiquette?
Last I checked, the rules that were taught on the books
recognized titles for Royalty (King/Queen, Prince/Princess, etc.)
Priests/Nuns/the Pope/Clergy of churches, and maybe Military and Government.

We just need to agree on the rules instead of leaving it
to confrontation and conflict to bring these up, or escalate to the point of lawsuits.

Are people suing if a teacher doesn't call a Buddhist monk by Reverend,
because that person doesn't recognize the Buddhist religion the same as Christians?

 

[Lysistrata]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.

So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.

 

[emilynghiem]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.

So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.

Yes and to be mature and rational about this whole issue:
First, let's distinguish the DIFFERENCE between physical gender based on GENETICS that CANNOT CHANGE, vs. internal spiritual identity that is FAITH BASED and can change and doesn't have to be proven by science because it's someone's personal business.

Let's be mature and fair and distinguish between those two very different levels
and not try to pass one off as the other!

After we get that settled, then maybe we can talk about how to talk about each one.
AFTER we even agree what we're talking about here, DISTINGUISHING
the DIFFERENCE between physical gender where genetic science has traditionally
been used for the legal and govt definitions in order to be neutral and secular
vs.
the arbitrary faith based beliefs that people may have that are not proveable by
science nor any of govt's business to make mandatory for the public.

Agreeing to treat that as FAITH BASED would keep it personal choice out of govt policy.

 

[alang1216]

if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.

What is happening here is you are asking people to deny reality and call a she a he. The guy tried to compromise by using neutral terms, but that isn't good enough for the Progressive Stasi.

I'm asking no such thing. I'm fine with using neutral terms.

 

[emilynghiem]

Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.

I agree, it is the intent is what makes it hate.

If I told my teacher my name is John but he insisted on calling me Jane or Moron. Is that hate? Don't we all get to be called by our given name? Why are pronouns any different?

if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.

What is happening here is you are asking people to deny reality and call a she a he. The guy tried to compromise by using neutral terms, but that isn't good enough for the Progressive Stasi.

^ Dear Lysistrata
By treating the issue of gender beliefs as FAITH BASED
this makes the student and teacher equal. Neither can be
required to push their beliefs on the other person through law, courts, govt etc.

So the proper solution would be to mediate and come up with
terms and conditions that both parties agree to.

Calling the person by their LEGAL name might help.
So the student should get that changed LEGALLY.
And in the meantime, maybe they could agree on which
nickname to use that doesn't violate the teacher's beliefs either.

The SCHOOL should hold meetings with parents, teachers,
students and staff, and decide on a policy for this and perhaps
for conflict resolution to prevent legal issues, actions or costs in the future.

 

[alang1216]

Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.

I agree, it is the intent is what makes it hate.

If I told my teacher my name is John but he insisted on calling me Jane or Moron. Is that hate? Don't we all get to be called by our given name? Why are pronouns any different?

Dear alang1216
The debates seem to be whether to legally and scientifically
recognize gender based on genetics, or REQUIRE people
to recognize some internal/cultural identity that is arbitrarily decided.

It's closer to
* if a person has a religion by which they have a title like Captain.
And this person wants to REQUIRE another person to address
them as Captain which is part of their religious identity, culture, affiliation or PRACTICE.
* if a person has a NICKNAME such as Charlie instead of Charles,
or BUZZ instead of their legal name. And this person wants to require
another person to call them by their NICKNAME.

What are the school policies?
If the school requires teachers to use the LEGAL name,
and it's OPTIONAL to use nicknames, then that's up to the individual.

What are the rules in grammar and etiquette?
Last I checked, the rules that were taught on the books
recognized titles for Royalty (King/Queen, Prince/Princess, etc.)
Priests/Nuns/the Pope/Clergy of churches, and maybe Military and Government.

We just need to agree on the rules instead of leaving it
to confrontation and conflict to bring these up, or escalate to the point of lawsuits.

Are people suing if a teacher doesn't call a Buddhist monk by Reverend,
because that person doesn't recognize the Buddhist religion the same as Christians?

Seems like we should be able to live together:

• Call people what they wish to be called
• If that conflicts with your beliefs either don't talk to them or work out some mutually acceptable compromise.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Free speech doesn't mean the option to use hate speech. If he called a Black kid the N word he should be terminated. If he refused to say anything to this trans kid, I'm not so sure what is proper. I'd say just transfer either the kid or the teacher to another class.

If that's your definition of hate speech, then i suggest never going outside again, you queefing little snowflake.

Is that "hate" speech as well?

So a white man using 'N*gger' is NOT hate speech? What about '****', 'chink', 'wop', 'towel head', or any others?

Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.

"Drunken Irish Mick" here. Get me a T-Shirt.

What if I were to call a white guy a niqqer?

The proper term is wigger.

I prefer being offensive. It's the heart of comedy.

 

[Lysistrata]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.

So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.

Yes and to be mature and rational about this whole issue:
First, let's distinguish the DIFFERENCE between physical gender based on GENETICS that CANNOT CHANGE, vs. internal spiritual identity that is FAITH BASED and can change and doesn't have to be proven by science because it's someone's personal business.

Let's be mature and fair and distinguish between those two very different levels
and not try to pass one off as the other!

After we get that settled, then maybe we can talk about how to talk about each one.
AFTER we even agree what we're talking about here, DISTINGUISHING
the DIFFERENCE between physical gender where genetic science has traditionally
been used for the legal and govt definitions in order to be neutral and secular
vs.
the arbitrary faith based beliefs that people may have that are not proveable by
science nor any of govt's business to make mandatory for the public.

Agreeing to treat that as FAITH BASED would keep it personal choice out of govt policy.

This post is incomprehensible.The most that I can get out of it is that you don't believe that gender dysphoria exists, that this conclusion is somehow connected with your religious faith, and that anything that anyone decides has to do with his or her religion is not only unassailable but also must be accepted by everyone around them even if it hurts a second person, and the person who was hurt should just slink away.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Child cruelty sending your kid to public schools.
Fired for not using Orwellian speech, welcome to the 21st Century.

A Virginia high school teacher who was fired for refusing to use a transgender student’s preferred pronouns has filed a lawsuit against the school district.

Officials at West Point High School, about 40 miles east of Richmond, cited nondiscrimination and anti-harassment policies in December when it terminated French teacher Peter Vlaming over his refusal to call a female-to-male transgender student by his preferred pronoun.

But Vlaming fired back in a lawsuit filed on Monday, accusing the West Point School Board of violating his right to free speech. He said he was fired because he avoided using pronouns all together when referring to the student, who was transitioning to male at the time.

Using male pronouns, such as “him” and “he” when addressing the student would have violated his “conscience,” Vlaming said in the suit, citing religious beliefs.

He said school administrators eventually gave him an ultimatum: either use male pronouns or risk losing his job.

“Defendants made up an uncompromising interpretation of their policies to compel Mr. Vlaming to take sides in an ongoing public debate regarding gender dysphoria and use pronouns that express an objectively untrue ideological message,” the lawsuit says. “Mr. Vlaming’s conscience and religious practice prohibits him from intentionally lying, and he sincerely believes that referring to a female student as a male by using an objectively male pronoun is telling a lie.”

Teacher sues after being fired for refusing to use student's preferred pronouns

“He said school administrators eventually gave him an ultimatum: either use male pronouns or risk losing his job.”


All we need to know

Yup he was like George Washington, he couldn't lie.



.

 

[Lysistrata]

Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.

I agree, it is the intent is what makes it hate.

If I told my teacher my name is John but he insisted on calling me Jane or Moron. Is that hate? Don't we all get to be called by our given name? Why are pronouns any different?

if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.

What is happening here is you are asking people to deny reality and call a she a he. The guy tried to compromise by using neutral terms, but that isn't good enough for the Progressive Stasi.

^ Dear Lysistrata
By treating the issue of gender beliefs as FAITH BASED
this makes the student and teacher equal. Neither can be
required to push their beliefs on the other person through law, courts, govt etc.

So the proper solution would be to mediate and come up with
terms and conditions that both parties agree to.

Calling the person by their LEGAL name might help.
So the student should get that changed LEGALLY.
And in the meantime, maybe they could agree on which
nickname to use that doesn't violate the teacher's beliefs either.

The SCHOOL should hold meetings with parents, teachers,
students and staff, and decide on a policy for this and perhaps
for conflict resolution to prevent legal issues, actions or costs in the future.

The student should be kept out of it since gender dysphoria is not a "faith-based belief." It is a condition that has nothing to do with a "belief."

 

[rightwinger]

Child cruelty sending your kid to public schools.
Fired for not using Orwellian speech, welcome to the 21st Century.

A Virginia high school teacher who was fired for refusing to use a transgender student’s preferred pronouns has filed a lawsuit against the school district.

Officials at West Point High School, about 40 miles east of Richmond, cited nondiscrimination and anti-harassment policies in December when it terminated French teacher Peter Vlaming over his refusal to call a female-to-male transgender student by his preferred pronoun.

But Vlaming fired back in a lawsuit filed on Monday, accusing the West Point School Board of violating his right to free speech. He said he was fired because he avoided using pronouns all together when referring to the student, who was transitioning to male at the time.

Using male pronouns, such as “him” and “he” when addressing the student would have violated his “conscience,” Vlaming said in the suit, citing religious beliefs.

He said school administrators eventually gave him an ultimatum: either use male pronouns or risk losing his job.

“Defendants made up an uncompromising interpretation of their policies to compel Mr. Vlaming to take sides in an ongoing public debate regarding gender dysphoria and use pronouns that express an objectively untrue ideological message,” the lawsuit says. “Mr. Vlaming’s conscience and religious practice prohibits him from intentionally lying, and he sincerely believes that referring to a female student as a male by using an objectively male pronoun is telling a lie.”

Teacher sues after being fired for refusing to use student's preferred pronouns

“He said school administrators eventually gave him an ultimatum: either use male pronouns or risk losing his job.”


All we need to know

It’s a female, shitforbrains.
Next kid says she’s a cat you want teachers fired for not supplying a sandbox to crap in?

He was instructed on how to refer to the student
He refused to do so
He was fired for it

Too freaking bad

 

[Unkotare]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

That’s the part you think is “nutty”?

 

[bodecea]

I wouldn't last one hour in today's classroom....

Me neither.

I would have slapped the gender confusion right out of the kid...something its parents ought to have done.....

Ah...physical violence....the linchpin of today's CRC (con-servative republican christian).

 

[martybegan]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.

So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.

This has to do with people like you thinking using the State to force people how to act over a matter of fucking pronouns.

The student is a victim here. Sorry, but treating supposed gender dysphoria at such an early age it tantamount to child abuse.

If the kid thinks they are a puppy should we let them shit in the playground?

 

[martybegan]

if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.

What is happening here is you are asking people to deny reality and call a she a he. The guy tried to compromise by using neutral terms, but that isn't good enough for the Progressive Stasi.

I'm asking no such thing. I'm fine with using neutral terms.

Fine, they are asking it. whatever it is its idiotic.

 

[rightwinger]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.

So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.

This has to do with people like you thinking using the State to force people how to act over a matter of fucking pronouns.

The student is a victim here. Sorry, but treating supposed gender dysphoria at such an early age it tantamount to child abuse.

If the kid thinks they are a puppy should we let them shit in the playground?

Your boss tells you how you are to address a student
You intentionally do otherwise
You get fired for it

That is the way things work

 

[martybegan]

Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.

I agree, it is the intent is what makes it hate.

If I told my teacher my name is John but he insisted on calling me Jane or Moron. Is that hate? Don't we all get to be called by our given name? Why are pronouns any different?

Dear alang1216
The debates seem to be whether to legally and scientifically
recognize gender based on genetics, or REQUIRE people
to recognize some internal/cultural identity that is arbitrarily decided.

It's closer to
* if a person has a religion by which they have a title like Captain.
And this person wants to REQUIRE another person to address
them as Captain which is part of their religious identity, culture, affiliation or PRACTICE.
* if a person has a NICKNAME such as Charlie instead of Charles,
or BUZZ instead of their legal name. And this person wants to require
another person to call them by their NICKNAME.

What are the school policies?
If the school requires teachers to use the LEGAL name,
and it's OPTIONAL to use nicknames, then that's up to the individual.

What are the rules in grammar and etiquette?
Last I checked, the rules that were taught on the books
recognized titles for Royalty (King/Queen, Prince/Princess, etc.)
Priests/Nuns/the Pope/Clergy of churches, and maybe Military and Government.

We just need to agree on the rules instead of leaving it
to confrontation and conflict to bring these up, or escalate to the point of lawsuits.

Are people suing if a teacher doesn't call a Buddhist monk by Reverend,
because that person doesn't recognize the Buddhist religion the same as Christians?

Seems like we should be able to live together:

• Call people what they wish to be called
• If that conflicts with your beliefs either don't talk to them or work out some mutually acceptable compromise.

I won't call a person what they desire to be called if they try to force me to.

At that point I will call them what I want on general principle.

 

[martybegan]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.

So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.

This has to do with people like you thinking using the State to force people how to act over a matter of fucking pronouns.

The student is a victim here. Sorry, but treating supposed gender dysphoria at such an early age it tantamount to child abuse.

If the kid thinks they are a puppy should we let them shit in the playground?

Your boss tells you how you are to address a student
You intentionally do otherwise
You get fired for it

That is the way things work

The boss tells you to eat pork in the cafeteria and you are jewish.

You refuse.

You are fired.

Yes, and exaggeration, but its an example of your line of logic.

In the case of a government job, employees have more rights than in the private sector.

 

[rightwinger]

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief??? The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.

It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.

So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.

This has to do with people like you thinking using the State to force people how to act over a matter of fucking pronouns.

The student is a victim here. Sorry, but treating supposed gender dysphoria at such an early age it tantamount to child abuse.

If the kid thinks they are a puppy should we let them shit in the playground?

Your boss tells you how you are to address a student
You intentionally do otherwise
You get fired for it

That is the way things work

The boss tells you to eat pork in the cafeteria and you are jewish.

You refuse.

You are fired.

Yes, and exaggeration, but its an example of your line of logic.

In the case of a government job, employees have more rights than in the private sector.

What you eat for lunch has no bearing on how you perform your job

How you treat your student does