Tax the rich!!!!!!!!

[AVG-JOE]

It just seems like any tax structure other than a flat tax doesn't encourage people the right way. To me a flat tax tells me, if I want more, earn more. Ten percent tax? Okay, I get $90 for every $100 I earn. No uncertainty about what I have to do in order to have $4,000 a month to spend my way.

Not to mention the way a flat tax that's the same for all would move power from congress back to the states and the people.

Having the power to tax you and I differently from each other opens the door wide to favoritism and the inevitable corruption it inspires.

Fair and simple federal taxes will go a long way indeed towards reforming our election process into one that doesn't feed the beast and make us look so stupid.

 

[akelch]

It just seems like any tax structure other than a flat tax doesn't encourage people the right way. To me a flat tax tells me, if I want more, earn more. Ten percent tax? Okay, I get $90 for every $100 I earn. No uncertainty about what I have to do in order to have $4,000 a month to spend my way.

Not to mention the way a flat tax that's the same for all would move power from congress back to the states and the people.

Having the power to tax you and I differently from each other opens the door wide to favoritism and the inevitable corruption it inspires.

Fair and simple federal taxes will go a long way indeed towards reforming our election process into one that doesn't feed the beast and make us look so stupid.

I keep hearing about this 10% flat tax. Is 10% enough??? Has anyone proven that it would be 10%.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Mostly I think we need to send them a message that America no longer buys the description "job creator" when referring to them and would like them to pay back some of the tax breaks we gave them to create some jobs, the ones they created in China don't count.

Tell me what tax breaks did I get when all my hard work and sacrifice finally put me over the 250K a year income mark?

I'll give you a hint.

NONE.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It just seems like any tax structure other than a flat tax doesn't encourage people the right way. To me a flat tax tells me, if I want more, earn more. Ten percent tax? Okay, I get $90 for every $100 I earn. No uncertainty about what I have to do in order to have $4,000 a month to spend my way.

Not to mention the way a flat tax that's the same for all would move power from congress back to the states and the people.

Having the power to tax you and I differently from each other opens the door wide to favoritism and the inevitable corruption it inspires.

Fair and simple federal taxes will go a long way indeed towards reforming our election process into one that doesn't feed the beast and make us look so stupid.

I keep hearing about this 10% flat tax. Is 10% enough??? Has anyone proven that it would be 10%.

Yes I have shown that based on past tax data that replacing the income tax with a 10% flat tax would increase income tax revenue.


Let's use 2009

Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data | Tax Foundation

AGI in 2009 was 7.8 trillion
total income tax revenue was 865 billion
an effective overall tax rate of 11.2%

Now the total gross income in 2009 was 11.85 trillion

Total Personal Income U.S. and All States
multiply that by .1 and the total tax revenue would have been 1.18 trillion

Last time i checked 1.18 trillion was larger than 865 billion

any questions?[/QUOTE]

 

[KissMy]

It just seems like any tax structure other than a flat tax doesn't encourage people the right way. To me a flat tax tells me, if I want more, earn more. Ten percent tax? Okay, I get $90 for every $100 I earn. No uncertainty about what I have to do in order to have $4,000 a month to spend my way.

Not to mention the way a flat tax that's the same for all would move power from congress back to the states and the people.

Having the power to tax you and I differently from each other opens the door wide to favoritism and the inevitable corruption it inspires.

Fair and simple federal taxes will go a long way indeed towards reforming our election process into one that doesn't feed the beast and make us look so stupid.

I keep hearing about this 10% flat tax. Is 10% enough??? Has anyone proven that it would be 10%.

It would be enough if the rich were actually forced to pay it. They always find a loophole that lowers their rate thus forcing the rest of us to subsidize them. Flat 10% tax on everyone & an extra amount on the top 1% to cover all their loopholes & actually get them paying 10%. They have been paying at least 5% less than the rest of us for 12 years now. ****-em.

 

[jgarden]

Mostly I think we need to send them a message that America no longer buys the description "job creator" when referring to them and would like them to pay back some of the tax breaks we gave them to create some jobs, the ones they created in China don't count.

You want to send them a message that America no longer thinks of them as a "job creator"?

First of all, who are the "rich"? Secondly, if it is not the "rich" then who creates jobs?

And lastly, assuming the "rich" do not create jobs, are taxes merely a means of punishment for them or are you really concerned with the rising debt?

I assum you don't want "average folk" to pay more in taxes, or do you?

Where is "Votto's" proof that by providing tax cuts to the wealthy, they have reinvested it into providing American jobs.

The Bush Administration inherited "balanced" budgets from a Democratic administration in 2001 and despite the tax cuts, left with the economy sliding into a recession in 2008.

 

[Annie]

The rich aren't necessarily job creators, and job creators aren't necessarily rich.

Should we punish those who could create jobs but who are not with taxes? Is that what you are saying?

I'm at the point where I'm torn on this. We keep hearing the job creators shouting about lower taxes, and economists saying that uncertainty in the tax structure is restricting hiring...so that being the case, if we give the job creators what they want and they sit on the money then obviously that pisses me off.

I have a hard time saying "punish" them because at the end of the day I have to defer to freedom, which includes the freedom to sit on your money if you want.

I don't think we're incentivizing them enough, that's the problem. And regulations are ridiculous as well. It's more than just taxes.

I seriously don't hear much from the 'rich' as defined by $250k on up. I do see a lot of companies that are headed by the rich, truly rich, that supported Obama, now going crazy to provide 'early payments' to their investors in this year, not next. That includes the Washington Post and Costco. So very interesting. The rich are also smart, to protect their own sources of income, they are preempting the policies they championed.

 

[KissMy]

Mostly I think we need to send them a message that America no longer buys the description "job creator" when referring to them and would like them to pay back some of the tax breaks we gave them to create some jobs, the ones they created in China don't count.

Tell me what tax breaks did I get when all my hard work and sacrifice finally put me over the 250K a year income mark?

I'll give you a hint.

NONE.

That is because by busting your ass to get over $250k you carried the load of the rich & the poor. Once you make over $2 million a year the middle class will be carrying you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Mostly I think we need to send them a message that America no longer buys the description "job creator" when referring to them and would like them to pay back some of the tax breaks we gave them to create some jobs, the ones they created in China don't count.

Tell me what tax breaks did I get when all my hard work and sacrifice finally put me over the 250K a year income mark?

I'll give you a hint.

NONE.

That is because by busting your ass to get over $250k you carried the load of the rich & the poor. Once you make over $2 million a year the middle class will be carrying you.

I highly doubt that.

If I get to the 2 million a year mark (which I probably won't) I'll be employing hundreds of people. I don't see how that takes anything from the so called middle class.

 

[Too Tall]

I don't want to see the rich taxed specifically. I want this country to return to a sane tax plan before the neo-cons gangraped us and before they retardedly started two wars while forcing future generations to pay for it. If we get our financial house in order by creating a better tax structure the strength of the dollar will rocket and our economy will roar. This is all pretty simple stuff.

Take a look at this article.

Cox and Archer: Why $16 Trillion Only Hints at the True U.S. Debt - WSJ.com

In this Wall Street Journal article, it states that the government does not put all its debt on the books. In short, the total unfunded national debt is more like $86 trillion. Last year $7 trillion was run up just by Social Security and Medicare alone. If you took the combined wealth of all the rich folk in the US I dare say it would not come close to that number.

I don't take issue with the wars abroad, nor a sane tax code, but you can't ignore the 700 pound gorilla in the room either even though both parties in Washington do. It is akin to how Wall Street cooks the books.

As for the wars abroad, I say it is a direct result of the beast that the federal government has become. In short, they have become so large and powerful and meddlesome that they don't stop with the citizenery, it will naturally progress internationally as well. Therefore, to simply lay this at the feet of the GOP is a mistake, especially after Mr. Nobel Prize started a war all by his lonesome and escalated another.

I agree with what you're saying and honestly both parties can get fucked and die for all I care. When I voted Obama the first time it's because I thought he had a pair and we'd return to a Clinton economy. I have been strongly dissatisfied with how ball-less the Democrats have been in regards to fixing our economy. However, I think we both agree that fixing the tax structure and scaling back the federal government is the first step towards fixing things.

I guess that hope and change change didn't work for you either. Fixing the tax structure will require a helluvalot more than raising the tax rate on the top 2%. That is all I hear from Obama and his minions. I really don't know if the Republicans have the stones to do anything, but the Democrats have proven that they don't.

 

[Too Tall]

Mostly I think we need to send them a message that America no longer buys the description "job creator" when referring to them and would like them to pay back some of the tax breaks we gave them to create some jobs, the ones they created in China don't count.

You want to send them a message that America no longer thinks of them as a "job creator"?

First of all, who are the "rich"? Secondly, if it is not the "rich" then who creates jobs?

And lastly, assuming the "rich" do not create jobs, are taxes merely a means of punishment for them or are you really concerned with the rising debt?

I assum you don't want "average folk" to pay more in taxes, or do you?

Where is "Votto's" proof that by providing tax cuts to the wealthy, they have reinvested it into providing American jobs.

The Bush Administration inherited "balanced" budgets from a Democratic administration in 2001 and despite the tax cuts, left with the economy sliding into a recession in 2008.

Do you blame the recession on Bush's tax cuts? Just curious.

 

[AVG-JOE]

It just seems like any tax structure other than a flat tax doesn't encourage people the right way. To me a flat tax tells me, if I want more, earn more. Ten percent tax? Okay, I get $90 for every $100 I earn. No uncertainty about what I have to do in order to have $4,000 a month to spend my way.

Not to mention the way a flat tax that's the same for all would move power from congress back to the states and the people.

Having the power to tax you and I differently from each other opens the door wide to favoritism and the inevitable corruption it inspires.

Fair and simple federal taxes will go a long way indeed towards reforming our election process into one that doesn't feed the beast and make us look so stupid.

I keep hearing about this 10% flat tax. Is 10% enough??? Has anyone proven that it would be 10%.

With the tax code so fraught with complications, favoritism and loopholes, it really is impossible to tell what kind of value to place on the American tax base.

If I could influence congress, I'd suggest starting with a personal income tax of 18%, with a single deduction for all of $30,000 to cover the basics of life, along with a 2% consumption tax, and see what that generates.

If it's not enough or too much, it would be pretty easy to see and adjust - that would be the advantage to a simple tax.

The first step in reigning in the spending problem is to find a realistic value to the tax base and then limit the spending to 80% - 90% of that, leaving 10% - 20% for deficit reduction and then to a savings account

 

[KissMy]

Tell me what tax breaks did I get when all my hard work and sacrifice finally put me over the 250K a year income mark?

I'll give you a hint.

NONE.

That is because by busting your ass to get over $250k you carried the load of the rich & the poor. Once you make over $2 million a year the middle class will be carrying you.

I highly doubt that.

If I get to the 2 million a year mark (which I probably won't) I'll be employing hundreds of people. I don't see how that takes anything from the so called middle class.

Do you not know what a subsidy is? It when the playing field is tilted towards a protected group. Usually through tax breaks. The government has set up an uneven playing field by taxing the rich far less than the middle class.

- KissMy (middle class job creator) produces widgets & gets taxed at 28%.
- Mitt Romney (entitled rich *****) produces widgets & gets taxed at 13%.
Now Romney can produce widgets & sell them for profit cheaper than KissMy. KissMy middle class ass goes under & becomes KissMy poor broke ass. Romney acquires KissMy widgets from bankruptsy for a fire-sale price of 10 cents on the dollar. He has taken over the assets & market & fired workers thus has more tax revenue but still lower tax rates enabling him to unfairly compete & destroy another middle class job creator.

We are also forced to subsidize the rich's flood insurance. They are the ones who own most of the beech homes & benifit the most from that massive subsidy. To top it off we had to bail out their banks. All accounts are FDIC insured up to $250K. But the rich had much more than that in their accounts. $2.5 trillion of their bad bets & debts got rolled onto the ballance sheet of the Federal Reserve where they remain to this day even as they lie & say they paid us back.

Currently all we get is IRA chicken feed. You can't use that money to invest in your small business tax free. You have to invest in stocks of the rich corporations. Hell make the first $100k tax exempt or low tax rate. But bribing the government to create an un-level playing field that benefits the rich is communist corruption by Plutocrats. It is clearly not the Democratically elected Republic that made us the greatest.

 

[Paulie]

That is because by busting your ass to get over $250k you carried the load of the rich & the poor. Once you make over $2 million a year the middle class will be carrying you.

I highly doubt that.

If I get to the 2 million a year mark (which I probably won't) I'll be employing hundreds of people. I don't see how that takes anything from the so called middle class.

Do you not know what a subsidy is? It when the playing field is tilted towards a protected group. Usually through tax breaks. The government has set up an uneven playing field by taxing the rich far less than the middle class.

- KissMy (middle class job creator) produces widgets & gets taxed at 28%.
- Mitt Romney (entitled rich *****) produces widgets & gets taxed at 13%.
Now Romney can produce widgets & sell them for profit cheaper than KissMy. KissMy middle class ass goes under & becomes KissMy poor broke ass. Romney acquires KissMy widgets from bankruptsy for a fire-sale price of 10 cents on the dollar. He has taken over the assets & market & fired workers thus has more tax revenue but still lower tax rates enabling him to unfairly compete & destroy another middle class job creator.

We are also forced to subsidize the rich's flood insurance. They are the ones who own most of the beech homes & benifit the most from that massive subsidy. To top it off we had to bail out their banks. All accounts are FDIC insured up to $250K. But the rich had much more than that in their accounts. $2.5 trillion of their bad bets & debts got rolled onto the ballance sheet of the Federal Reserve where they remain to this day even as they lie & say they paid us back.

Currently all we get is IRA chicken feed. You can't use that money to invest in your small business tax free. You have to invest in stocks of the rich corporations. Hell make the first $100k tax exempt or low tax rate. But bribing the government to create an un-level playing field that benefits the rich is communist corruption by Plutocrats. It is clearly not the Democratically elected Republic that made us the greatest.

Good post.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Not to mention the way a flat tax that's the same for all would move power from congress back to the states and the people.

Having the power to tax you and I differently from each other opens the door wide to favoritism and the inevitable corruption it inspires.

Fair and simple federal taxes will go a long way indeed towards reforming our election process into one that doesn't feed the beast and make us look so stupid.

I keep hearing about this 10% flat tax. Is 10% enough??? Has anyone proven that it would be 10%.

It would be enough if the rich were actually forced to pay it. They always find a loophole that lowers their rate thus forcing the rest of us to subsidize them. Flat 10% tax on everyone & an extra amount on the top 1% to cover all their loopholes & actually get them paying 10%. They have been paying at least 5% less than the rest of us for 12 years now. ****-em.

That's just wrong, Bud.

Loopholes lower the amount of income subject to taxation, not the rate. That's why Obama wants the rates to go up while we take a look at the list of deductions available for culling.

I still like the idea of a flat tax with one and only one deduction of a specified amount for all and, according to Skull Pilots research, 10% after $30,000 would probably work.

 

[akelch]

I keep hearing about this 10% flat tax. Is 10% enough??? Has anyone proven that it would be 10%.

It would be enough if the rich were actually forced to pay it. They always find a loophole that lowers their rate thus forcing the rest of us to subsidize them. Flat 10% tax on everyone & an extra amount on the top 1% to cover all their loopholes & actually get them paying 10%. They have been paying at least 5% less than the rest of us for 12 years now. ****-em.

That's just wrong, Bud.

Loopholes lower the amount of income subject to taxation, not the rate. That's why Obama wants the rates to go up while we take a look at the list of deductions available for culling.

I still like the idea of a flat tax with one and only one deduction of a specified amount for all and, according to Skull Pilots research, 10% after $30,000 would probably work.

Have any of you taken a serious look at the Fair Tax plan HR.25?

It is the best tax plan I have ever read. It was designed by Economist and accountants, not politicians.

It would remove cheating and tax subsides for corporations. Plus, bring back thousands of oversea jobs and encourage foreign companies to move their businesses here in the US.

We would create more jobs and more tax revenue then ever before.

Add yes...it is progressive, so the rich will pay more.

 

[KissMy]

I keep hearing about this 10% flat tax. Is 10% enough??? Has anyone proven that it would be 10%.

It would be enough if the rich were actually forced to pay it. They always find a loophole that lowers their rate thus forcing the rest of us to subsidize them. Flat 10% tax on everyone & an extra amount on the top 1% to cover all their loopholes & actually get them paying 10%. They have been paying at least 5% less than the rest of us for 12 years now. ****-em.

That's just wrong, Bud.

Loopholes lower the amount of income subject to taxation, not the rate. That's why Obama wants the rates to go up while we take a look at the list of deductions available for culling.

I still like the idea of a flat tax with one and only one deduction of a specified amount for all and, according to Skull Pilots research, 10% after $30,000 would probably work.

Loopholes are just a subsidize the rich ploy. The plan only if there is absolutely no loopholes or offshore accounts & all income regardless of it's source is taxed at the same rate. Once someone finds a way around paying, they have an immediate competitive advantage. Money flows to where it is treated best & if someone is taxed less they generate more profit thus attracting all the investment. That is how the rich vastly increased their margin with the Bush tax cuts. It does not matter if everyone pays 50% tax or 10% tax as long as the actual effective rate is the same. Otherwise the rich will take your investment money & beat you to death with it.

That does not balance the fact that for 12 years now the top 1% have already used their tax subsidies to stripped us of most of our productive assets, wealth, piles of cash & government influence. Competing with them is already going to start out like fighting our way up a mountain. But for god's sake we should not be helping them pound our own ass in the dirt by subsidizing them with our taxes.

The father of free markets Adam Smith never ever said subsidize the rich. He said the rich should pay more not less. Only stupid ******* idiot would think subsidizing the rich would lead to prosperity.

 

[saveliberty]

Loopholes are just a subsidize the rich ploy. The plan only if there is absolutely no loopholes or offshore accounts & all income regardless of it's source is taxed at the same rate. Once someone finds a way around paying, they have an immediate competitive advantage. Money flows to where it is treated best & if someone is taxed less they generate more profit thus attracting all the investment. That is how the rich vastly increased their margin with the Bush tax cuts. It does not matter if everyone pays 50% tax or 10% tax as long as the actual effective rate is the same. Otherwise the rich will take your investment money & beat you to death with it.

So all those energy tax credits for insulation, wind or solar power and earned income credits are for the rich. Well that sure was informative.

 

[GoneBezerk]

It is ironic that movie years ago "Bugs Life" made by liberals points out liberals in real life.

Liberals were the grasshoppers that stole from bees until the bees could no longer support them. Eventually the food will be gone when the grasshoppers eat up all the food and wear down the bees.....

 

[akelch]

It is ironic that movie years ago "BEE" made by liberals points out liberals in real life.

Liberals were the grasshoppers that stole from bees until the bees could no longer support them. Eventually the food will be gone when the grasshoppers eat up all the food and wear down the bees.....

It was "a bugs life" not Bee.